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Thread: Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

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    Quote Originally Posted by LABERIA View Post
    Albanians are native in the territory where they live today.
    There is no Empire in human history that can be compared with the Roman Empire. Humanity advances, technological development, etc, but nobody could do what the Romans did with their bullock carts and their horses. They have latinized everything they found on their way. The only peoples who escaped the definitive latinization were the Albanians, the Basques and the British Celts. All the others became latin speakers and with the Edict of the Emperor Caracalla they became definitively Romans.
    The reason why the Albanians have escaped this latinization lies in the fact that the Albanians lived in this place where they live today, in a mountainous region in the South-East of Europe. Pay attention to the two underlined words, mountain and south. The whole Balkan peninsula is full of mountains, but only in our mountains was possible for large groups of population to survive. And living on the mountains was not like going today for trekking.
    Ok it makes sense, but could it be that originally albanians, romanians and aromanians were all sheephers living in albania, but romanians and aromanians descended the mountains living in modern day macedonia near the via egnatia, they get latinized but we don't so as a result we have close ties in several aspects
    P.s.
    this explains even the qeleshe and customes thing :)

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    Οκ

    Enough with personal differences I think


    Back to Video,




    THE MARTIN HULD argue as 'EVIDENCE'? ?????
    (min 1:22)


    Lets see,

    the bellow is part of Phd Zolotas speach at 1959 at IMF,
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XAcuxFqk9k

    Greek words in English language !!!!
    some estimate more than 5000,
    So by Martin Huld, and the criteria that the video provides,

    English language was raised next to ancient Greek !!!!!!!!

    Same criteria, same method, so same result

    Come on Guys,
    plz,
    realize the Atopon,



    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    for those who to see it



    the many ancient Greek words in English language,

    and here you can hear it
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwtwD9gI1M4

    So the Huld Argue is not a ΟΕΔ
    <<ΟΠΕΡ ΕΔΕΙ ΔΕΙΞΑΙ>>
    (quod erat demonstrandum)

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    History has been written from the interest of some who have tried to dominate old populations in their places... This subject has become very confusing. It gives me the impression of making a scenario for an imaginary video game without clear arguments about language and genetics.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gannicus View Post
    Bravo, exatly you made a very good linguisticak analysis, this only strenghtens up my thaught of a common albanian/romanian/aromanian common origin wich probably happened between kosovo and macedonia.


    P.s. romanians to use gomarru to mean donkey i've heard.
    BTW, there is a Greek word, γομαρι, meaning donkey or in general load carrying animal, its etymology is from the Middle Ages, γομαριον, which itself comes from the Ancient Greek root, γομος, load. There is also another Μοδερν Greek word for donkey that come from the Middle Ages, γαιδουρι. It is speculated that it comes from Arabic but the etymology is not definitive. The Ancient Greek word for donkey is Ονος.

    I wish the Thracians, the Dacians and Illyrians had left a written language. It would have made a lot of arguments moot.

    The word might be more ancient than that. So before you amateur linguists and geneticists go any further, leave the science to the scientists.
    Last edited by bigsnake49; 12-01-19 at 23:28.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gidai View Post
    History has been written from the interest of some who have tried to dominate old populations in their places... This subject has become very confusing. It gives me the impression of making a scenario for an imaginary video game without clear arguments about language and genetics.
    The history of East Europe but especially Balkans is a total mess.
    In the history of this region there is always a binomial, Vlachs and Albanians. Unfortunately these two peoples could not exploit the right moment, because there was a moment in history when these two peoples could do something interesting. There was the money, there was the military power, but there was no vision and political leadership. Also the weight of the great powers was too great.
    For example i was reading something in Wiki few days ago:

    Katerini

    Katerini (Greek: Κατερίνη, Kateríni, pronounced [ka̠te̞ˈɾiɲi]) is a city in Central Macedonia, Greece, the capital of Pieria regional unit. It lies on the Pierian plain, between Mt. Olympus and the Thermaikos Gulf, at an altitude of 14 m. The city has a population of 85,851 (according to the 2014 census) and it is the second most populous urban area at the Region of Macedonia after Thessaloniki.
    According to the reports of travellers, at the turn of the 19th century, the city had four to five thousand inhabitants, mostly Greeks. In 1806, William Martin Leake recorded 100 hearths, while four years later Daniel recorded 140. For the remainder of the 19th century, the number of homes remained steady at about 300, with a population in 1900 of 2,070 Greek Orthodox mostly Vlah, and 600 Muslims, most of them of Albanian origin.[2]
    The city was captured by the Greek 7th Infantry Division on 16 October 1912, during the First Balkan War, and has been part of Greece since then.[2] With the population exchange between Greece and Turkey in 1923, the city's Muslims left, and Greek refugees, particularly from Eastern Thrace and Greek Evangelicals from Asia Minor, took their place, almost doubling the city's population from 5,540 in 1920 to 10,138 in 1928.[2]
    Without investigating of how much accurate are the data about demography of this city, clearly was an Vlach-Albanian city. Later, the natives, Vlachs were assimilated and Albanians were expelled. People arrived as refugees from Asia are now the natives in that city. This is simply a small story of many other realities like these.
    17 Dec.
    Paget to the Council.

    Now the Council's letters seem to imply (words quoted) that the King will keep no strangers save the Albanoys.

    Cales, 17 Dec. 1545. Signed.

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    Famous Serbian Linguist believed Albanian language to be descendant of a Pre-Greek IE language in the Aegean and Balkans.


    Milan Budimir was professor emeritus of classical languages at the university of Belgrade.

    Pg 64


    "Budimir accepts Pedersen's law and believes that Albanian, distinguishing the three series of Indo-European stops, continues the oldest linguistic stratum in the Balkan and that the Pre-Greek Indo-European language belonged to the same family. This he tries to prove by establishing Greek loan words of Pre-Greek origin which distinguish also the three kinds of lndo-European velar stops.


    According to Budimir, such loan words are for instance:


    (see image)


    they show an assibilation of both Indo-European palatals and labio-velars. Budimir therefore postulates a special relationship between the Pre-Greek Indo-European language and modern Albanian. In this he follows von Hahn and Thomopulos who thought that Albanian was a modern form of the ancient Pelasgian language.


    Pg 63


    "Milan Budimir, professor emeritus of classical languages at the university of Belgrade, believes that the Pre-Greek population of the Aegean area was very mixed ethnically and linguistically and that among this population there was also an Indo-European layer belonging to a special branch of this family in which all three series of velar stops (the palatals, the pure velars, and the labio-velars) were preserved as distinct phonemes. Such an Indo-European language is Albanian if Pedersen is right in postulating a sound law to the effect that Indo-European labio-velars are assibilated in Albanian before front vowels while pure velars remain unchanged in this position :


    Alb. pjek 'I fry' < IE *pekwo
    Alb. pese 'five' < IE *penkwe
    Alb. sy 'eyes' < IE *okwe


    but


    Alb. kohe 'time' < IE *kesa


    Pg 70


    "It should be stressed, however, that although Budimir
    appears as a champion of pre-classical Indo-Europeanism he never denied the existence of a still older non-Indo-European linguistic stratum in the Aegean area and the whole Mediterranean. "


    "As we have already stressed, the mass evacuation of the Albanians from their triangle is the only effective course we can take. In order to relocate a whole people, the first prerequisite is the creation of a suitable psychosis. This can be done in various ways." - Vaso Cubrilovic

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    For all ours Albanian friends. Not have to let ourselves down with sadness. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...strumental.ogg We are all on this tiny Earth, of the same dough. "Star Dust" connects us all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LABERIA View Post
    The history of East Europe but especially Balkans is a total mess.
    In the history of this region there is always a binomial, Vlachs and Albanians. Unfortunately these two peoples could not exploit the right moment, because there was a moment in history when these two peoples could do something interesting. There was the money, there was the military power, but there was no vision and political leadership. Also the weight of the great powers was too great.
    For example i was reading something in Wiki few days ago:

    Katerini


    Without investigating of how much accurate are the data about demography of this city, clearly was an Vlach-Albanian city. Later, the natives, Vlachs were assimilated and Albanians were expelled. People arrived as refugees from Asia are now the natives in that city. This is simply a small story of many other realities like these.
    Only Katerini did exist as you describe it,

    It was an army camp of 7000 Turk-Albanians and 3000 Turks,
    protecting the land-owners of the fertile land,

    The first non Turks were Greeks from Egypt came at 1860
    That is why it is named Aikaterne,

    The description you write, as also in Pukevill is about Hatera, a village outside of what is Katerini,


    So your ignorance as big as your 'Superiority'

    As for Albanians and Vlachs,

    I suggest read kasomoulis,
    Who Stop Ali Pasha,

    bye bye 'superior being'

    BTW
    The first habitants non Turks habitants of Katerini were Greeks from Egypt at 1860
    St AIKATERINE SINAI

    as for city, it was nothing more than a mahalla,
    population was elsewhere.


    Now to your scientific demographics

    The 10 000 m2 that Turks owned divided to refuggees

    Yes The city is 66% made by Refuggees of 1920's
    BUT THE VILLAGES NOT,
    THE PREFERACTURE IS 60% LOCAL PRE 1920 POPULATION,
    THE LOCAL THAT KICKED ALI-PASHA,
    LIBERATED THE ARVANITES OF EYVOIA,
    MADE THE OLYMPUS NTAIFA
    AND THE MOST NOUMEROUS BLACK SHIPS

    AHAHAHAHA
    Again you seem to play as a loser does.





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    Quote Originally Posted by LABERIA View Post
    The history of East Europe but especially Balkans is a total mess.
    In the history of this region there is always a binomial, Vlachs and Albanians. Unfortunately these two peoples could not exploit the right moment, because there was a moment in history when these two peoples could do something interesting. There was the money, there was the military power, but there was no vision and political leadership.
    Omg i agree so much with this, the thing i was always mad to albania's history is why albanians had this fis system instead of a king with a centralized state, with the military power we had we could write history, imagine how many conquests, how much we could develop our language creating cognates of our own, industrial, technological, scientifical terminology, how much we could effect other languages, and what kind of empires we could create, but why didn't those kokfort unite and have a little bit of ambition.

    When the albanian tryhards something he always achieves a lot, better than anyone, no one can reach as far as the shqipe, but this never happens cuz of his lack of ambition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    Famous Serbian Linguist believed Albanian language to be descendant of a Pre-Greek IE language in the Aegean and Balkans.


    Milan Budimir was professor emeritus of classical languages at the university of Belgrade.

    Pg 64


    "Budimir accepts Pedersen's law and believes that Albanian, distinguishing the three series of Indo-European stops, continues the oldest linguistic stratum in the Balkan and that the Pre-Greek Indo-European language belonged to the same family. This he tries to prove by establishing Greek loan words of Pre-Greek origin which distinguish also the three kinds of lndo-European velar stops.


    According to Budimir, such loan words are for instance:


    (see image)


    they show an assibilation of both Indo-European palatals and labio-velars. Budimir therefore postulates a special relationship between the Pre-Greek Indo-European language and modern Albanian. In this he follows von Hahn and Thomopulos who thought that Albanian was a modern form of the ancient Pelasgian language.


    Pg 63


    "Milan Budimir, professor emeritus of classical languages at the university of Belgrade, believes that the Pre-Greek population of the Aegean area was very mixed ethnically and linguistically and that among this population there was also an Indo-European layer belonging to a special branch of this family in which all three series of velar stops (the palatals, the pure velars, and the labio-velars) were preserved as distinct phonemes. Such an Indo-European language is Albanian if Pedersen is right in postulating a sound law to the effect that Indo-European labio-velars are assibilated in Albanian before front vowels while pure velars remain unchanged in this position :


    Alb. pjek 'I fry' < IE *pekwo
    Alb. pese 'five' < IE *penkwe
    Alb. sy 'eyes' < IE *okwe


    but


    Alb. kohe 'time' < IE *kesa


    Pg 70


    "It should be stressed, however, that although Budimir
    appears as a champion of pre-classical Indo-Europeanism he never denied the existence of a still older non-Indo-European linguistic stratum in the Aegean area and the whole Mediterranean. "



    @ DERITE

    READ YOU POST US

    ''BUDIMIR POSTPULATES .... von Han and Thomopoulos''

    Only Thomopoulos mixed the celtic and driven his work to Atopon,
    same with von Han,

    What you write is that Budimir so an aspiration that was considered pre-Greek to him following Van han and Thomopoulos to a pelasgian pre-Greek IE,

    Now to end from the copy you post

    BUDIMIR NEVER DENIED THE EXISTANCE OF A STILL OLDER NON IE LINGUISTIC STRATUM IN AEGEAN.


    offcourse,
    that is Why most modern linguists place proto-Greek above Mycenean and Minoan,
    it is not a secret anymore the evolution from NW Greek dialects who are more close to LPIE
    to the Southern Greek and koine to end,

    there are 2 aspirations that happen mostly in Greek,
    due to that,

    SO you post us nothing,
    except that Budimir fall to the same hole that van Han and Thomopoulos did
    to consider Albanian = Pelasgian (especially Thomopoulos who belived that celtic remnants were Pelasgika)

    AND THAT ALBANIAN IS A SATEM2 LANGUAGE,

    Thank Derite

    it is already known that Albanian is Satem 2, as Also Armenian
    kw ->> s
    but
    K+strong ->>> K




    @ DERITE

    I AM GRATEFULL,

    YOU HAVE POST WHAT I CLAIM ALL THIS TIME,
    ALBANIAN DID NOT FINISHED SATEMIZATION,
    Why? I can not answer yet that.

    THANK YOU

    I BOW TO YOUR KINDNESS.


    infact k+strong, t+strong maybe has something common with Anatolian languages, or neolithic languages,
    search it, who knows,

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    Albanian is not a satem. This IE language that Budmir found loanwords of in Greek is a Non Greek one that like he said:

    "the Pre-Greek population of the Aegean area was very mixed ethnically and linguistically and that among this population there was also an Indo-European layer belonging to a special branch of this family in which all three series of velar stops (the palatals, the pure velars, and the labio-velars) were preserved as distinct phonemes. Such an Indo-European language is Albanian"


    He is very clear, Albanian IE is Pre-Greek.

    And as for the "Satem" Albanian, that is not true and a something that people without any linguistic awareness spread around:


    "Albanian shows developments of the three Indo-European dorsals that are much too complex to be interpreted by the crude and false satem—centum dichotomy "


    Basic Albanian Etymologies
    by Martin Huld


    The mere presence of affricated or assibilated reflexes of Indo-European dorsals is insufficient grounds for the Satem classification; English, Frisian, French or Spanish could equally be called Satem on this basis. The Satem languages ( here used only of Indo-Iranian, Baltic, and Slavic ) are characterized by sibilant or in the case of the Kafiri languages, affricated reflexes of the Indo-European palatals and the concomitant, unconditioned merging of the Indo-European pure— and labio-velars. This trait is shared by Armenian, but labiovelars after *u are delabialized and merge with the Indo-European palatals in Armenian but not in Indo-Iranian, Baltic and Slavic. Unlike the other languages, Armenian delabialization must have preceded affrication of palatals in Armenian.


    Albanian does not merge the pure- and labio-velars before original front vowels; this distinguishes it from the more narrowly defined Satem languages. The Satem languages, as well as Greek and Armenian, distinguish palatals plus *u from the labiovelar. In having s and z from all palatals plus *u and from labiovelars before *i and front vowels, Albanian matches neither the Satem languages nor the others where these sounds merge under all conditions. A third feature shared by Indo-Iranian, Baltic, and Slavic is the retraction of *s after r, u, k, and i. Albanian shows no special treatment of *s after these sounds that is not consistent with the Albanian treatment of *s elsewhere; we must reject Pedersen's conclusion (1895c:83) that the neofinal retraction of *s to sh has any relation to this 'Satem' feature.


    The most striking feature that separates Albanian from the Satem languages is the environmentally conditioned depalatalization of Indo-European palatals before non-vocalic resonants . This feature, a corollary to the Albanian neutralization of palatals before non-vocalic sounds, is entirely absent in Indo-Iranian and Armenian and quite different from the internal variation found in Baltic and Slavic, eg Lith akmuõ ‘stone' , ãšmenys 'edge (of a tool)’ both from *Aekmen-, cf Shevelov (1965:141—45) . Kortlandt (1978) attempted to link the sporadic Baltic-Slavic failure to assibilate Indo-European palatals to the regular preconsonantal neutralization seen in Albanian, but his arguments are less than persuasive. The palatal in both akmuõ and ãšmenys must have always stood before consonantal *m. Analogy provides no rational explanation for this divergence. The Baltic and Slavic variation may, like English ditch: :dyke reflect a now suppressed dialect variation. Fluctuation of reflexes between palatal stops and affricates is a feature observed in many languages. Dialects of Carrier, Ahtena and Koyukon, Athapaskan languages of Canada and Alaska, show both /kY/ and / tš/ for Proto—Athapaskan *k (Hoijer 1963:13-17) .


    Pg 160, Basic Albanian Etymologies
    by Martin Huld

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    @ Derite

    Why I read something Different in your post

    'Budimir never denied a linguistic stractum of a non IE in Aegean'

    he avoided the mistake of Thomopoulos who believed that Albanian = pelasgianand Yes Albanian is SATEM 2, as Armenian,


    as for Huld,
    I already gave a video of Zolotas
    English has the biggest Greek vocabulary
    Was English created nearby Proto-Greek?


    As for Albanian is or not Satem
    it is your copy you provide us,

    kw->>> s
    but 'κ -->>> Κ not S as in other satem

    that is why is a Satem language of its own.
    Last edited by Yetos; 12-01-19 at 22:45.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    Albanian is not a satem. This IE language that Budmir found loanwords of in Greek is a Non Greek one that like he said:
    "the Pre-Greek population of the Aegean area was very mixed ethnically and linguistically and that among this population there was also an Indo-European layer belonging to a special branch of this family in which all three series of velar stops (the palatals, the pure velars, and the labio-velars) were preserved as distinct phonemes. Such an Indo-European language is Albanian"
    He is very clear, Albanian IE is Pre-Greek.
    And as for the "Satem" Albanian, that is not true and a something that people without any linguistic awareness spread around:
    "Albanian shows developments of the three Indo-European dorsals that are much too complex to be interpreted by the crude and false satem—centum dichotomy "
    Basic Albanian Etymologies
    by Martin Huld
    The mere presence of affricated or assibilated reflexes of Indo-European dorsals is insufficient grounds for the Satem classification; English, Frisian, French or Spanish could equally be called Satem on this basis. The Satem languages ( here used only of Indo-Iranian, Baltic, and Slavic ) are characterized by sibilant or in the case of the Kafiri languages, affricated reflexes of the Indo-European palatals and the concomitant, unconditioned merging of the Indo-European pure— and labio-velars. This trait is shared by Armenian, but labiovelars after *u are delabialized and merge with the Indo-European palatals in Armenian but not in Indo-Iranian, Baltic and Slavic. Unlike the other languages, Armenian delabialization must have preceded affrication of palatals in Armenian.
    Albanian does not merge the pure- and labio-velars before original front vowels; this distinguishes it from the more narrowly defined Satem languages. The Satem languages, as well as Greek and Armenian, distinguish palatals plus *u from the labiovelar. In having s and z from all palatals plus *u and from labiovelars before *i and front vowels, Albanian matches neither the Satem languages nor the others where these sounds merge under all conditions. A third feature shared by Indo-Iranian, Baltic, and Slavic is the retraction of *s after r, u, k, and i. Albanian shows no special treatment of *s after these sounds that is not consistent with the Albanian treatment of *s elsewhere; we must reject Pedersen's conclusion (1895c:83) that the neofinal retraction of *s to sh has any relation to this 'Satem' feature.
    The most striking feature that separates Albanian from the Satem languages is the environmentally conditioned depalatalization of Indo-European palatals before non-vocalic resonants . This feature, a corollary to the Albanian neutralization of palatals before non-vocalic sounds, is entirely absent in Indo-Iranian and Armenian and quite different from the internal variation found in Baltic and Slavic, eg Lith akmuõ ‘stone' , ãšmenys 'edge (of a tool)’ both from *Aekmen-, cf Shevelov (1965:141—45) . Kortlandt (1978) attempted to link the sporadic Baltic-Slavic failure to assibilate Indo-European palatals to the regular preconsonantal neutralization seen in Albanian, but his arguments are less than persuasive. The palatal in both akmuõ and ãšmenys must have always stood before consonantal *m. Analogy provides no rational explanation for this divergence. The Baltic and Slavic variation may, like English ditch: :dyke reflect a now suppressed dialect variation. Fluctuation of reflexes between palatal stops and affricates is a feature observed in many languages. Dialects of Carrier, Ahtena and Koyukon, Athapaskan languages of Canada and Alaska, show both /kY/ and / tš/ for Proto—Athapaskan *k (Hoijer 1963:13-17) .
    Pg 160, Basic Albanian Etymologies
    by Martin Huld
    one thing i was always fashinated about are placenames and word that have origin from agglutinating words together, does albanian have any of the following cases that we can find in english?
    Craftsman, Downtown, sheepherd, townmaster, Lumberjack, cattleherder, etc.
    I mean words made by aggluting different words into a single one.
    For long time, i think it was Vladimir Orel or Georgiev i don't rember, that claimed the thracian orogin of albanians, and his theories were debunked exactly because of the thracians having place names obtained by agglutinating 2 or more words while albanian, i have read, doesn't allow this.
    But i have a strange case that i suggest could be seen as a rare case of agglutination in albanian: Mostly use by gheg albanians:
    Mollatarta, it means tomatoes (pural), while the rest of albania uses domate.
    Now what we can find is that it is like a complete deformation of and compression of the word.
    Literally it comes from: molla(apples) të(pronuon i guess) arta(golden).
    It is like the italian Pomodoro where pomo from ancient greek to latin is apple, d' is the definitive article and oro from latin aurum is gold.
    What do you think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gannicus View Post
    one thing i was always fashinated about are placenames and word that have origin from agglutinating words together, does albanian have any of the following cases that we can find in english?
    Craftsman, Downtown, sheepherd, townmaster, Lumberjack, cattleherder, etc.
    I mean words made by aggluting different words into a single one.
    For long time, i think it was Vladimir Orel or Georgiev i don't rember, that claimed the thracian orogin of albanians, and his theories were debunked exactly because of the thracians having place names obtained by agglutinating 2 or more words while albanian, i have read, doesn't allow this.
    But i have a strange case that i suggest could be seen as a rare case of agglutination in albanian: Mostly use by gheg albanians:
    Mollatarta, it means tomatoes (pural), while the rest of albania uses domate.
    Now what we can find is that it is like a complete deformation of and compression of the word.
    Literally it comes from: molla(apples) të(pronuon i guess) arta(golden).
    It is like the italian Pomodoro where pomo from ancient greek to latin is apple, d' is the definitive article and oro from latin aurum is gold.
    What do you think.
    You know, instead of writing this whole paragraph you could have googled this.

    The argument about Thracian was not that Albanian can't have compound words, as it has plenty, just like any other language. But in Thracian, the adjective goes first, so it would be: Artamolla, not Mollatarta. Albanian does not allow that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ownstyler View Post
    You know, instead of writing this whole paragraph you could have googled this.

    The argument about Thracian was not that Albanian can't have compound words, as it has plenty, just like any other language. But in Thracian, the adjective goes first, so it would be: Artamolla, not Mollatarta. Albanian does not allow that.
    Thank you, this was the doubt i had.

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    @ Derite

    it is more complicated the subject

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gannicus View Post
    Ok sorry, i have to admit i am fast and quick into doing conclusions and lack of knowledge even on basic things (...)
    It's a good sign if you understand that.
    Before you write something, you need to get better informed, analyze first and then try to censure yourself in ideas that do not match the information you find. There are too many ideas that you expose and seem to be generated by too much imagination, that it's hard to find something that corresponds to serious evidence. So everything become no longer connected, even if some statements might be true.
    Good luck!

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by gidai View Post
    It's a good sign if you understand that.
    Before you write something, you need to get better informed, analyze first and then try to censure yourself in ideas that do not match the information you find. There are too many ideas that you expose and seem to be generated by too much imagination, that it's hard to find something that corresponds to serious evidence. So everything become no longer connected, even if some statements might be true.
    Good luck!
    Thank you for your advice, i am gonna take note ;)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ownstyler View Post
    You know, instead of writing this whole paragraph you could have googled this.

    The argument about Thracian was not that Albanian can't have compound words, as it has plenty, just like any other language. But in Thracian, the adjective goes first, so it would be: Artamolla, not Mollatarta. Albanian does not allow that.

    that is a good arguement

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    The today consensus would be, spite still debated:
    It seems the ancestor of Albanian', maybe not too far from what we call 'Illyrian', which language we know very little about itself (too scarce traces when Dalmatian is rejected), was part of a continuum of partly or specifically satemized southeastern European IE dialects were could be put Thracian, Getian (with Dacian), Dardanian and other less known dialects. The more ancient links seem with Balto-Slavic languages, what is due perhaps to the closeness of all those satem languages with a deep common basis.
    The Adriatic shores seem excluded, based upon maritime vocabulary (Greek and Latin for the most)- I cannot discuss these arguments, maybe they are not definitive: so Albanian tongue would be come more lately, being rather close to Getian, maybe from a region in the South-Central Balkan. The today Albania lands are considered as showing a rather Slavic toponymy, what would be another argument.
    BTW some linguists think that one of the 2 prehellinic dialects of Greece was a dialect close to all these Central and East Balkans ones (the other would have been close to Louwit or to some western Anatolian IE dialects, pity we cannot find the direction of propagation out!) -
    I recall these positions without personal thought because I lack clues and things can evovle a bit in future, by chance; I'm just tempted to think the Ghegs are maybe closer to the first Albanians, with a male elite rich for Y-EV13, only guess.
    ATW this Balkans story is very fuzzy with all those tribes go and return.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    The today consensus would be, spite still debated:
    The Adriatic shores seem excluded, based upon maritime vocabulary (Greek and Latin for the most)- I cannot discuss these arguments, maybe they are not definitive: so Albanian tongue would be come more lately, being rather close to Getian, maybe from a region in the South-Central Balkan.
    According to such a consensus, the Portuguese, Spanish, French, English, most of Italians, Romanians, etc. didn't live near the coasts they inhabit nowadays, as they use Latin words and also Germanic in the case of English.

    Also the fact that the Albanian words for sea and boat are actually Albanian doesn't matter at all. It's a done deal, 100% proven that Albanians lived far from the Adriatic and Ionian coasts.

    The French word 'air' is also Latin and it shows us an undeniable proof that the ancient Gauls didn't breathe air until the Romans showed up.

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    Indo-European languages


    The Indo-European languages are a language family of several hundred related languages and dialects.[2]
    There are about 445 living Indo-European languages, according to the estimate by Ethnologue, with over two thirds (313) of them belonging to the Indo-Iranian branch.[3] The most widely spoken Indo-European languages by native speakers are Spanish, Hindustani (Hindi-Urdu), English, Portuguese, Bengali, Punjabi, and Russian, each with over 100 million speakers, with German, French, Marathi, Italian, and Persian also having more than 50 million. Today, nearly 42% of the human population (3.2 billion) speaks an Indo-European language as a first language, by far the highest of any language family.



    Classification
    The various subgroups of the Indo-European language family include ten major branches, listed below in alphabetical order

    Albanian language is one of ten major branches of the Indoeuropean languages and was not the tiny language of a small group of person in a not specified place in Balkans.
    Personally i have to make a correction to the article of the Wiki. If we accept the Illyrian origine of the Albanians, Proto-Albanian has not evolved from Illyrians, Illyrians was the Proto-Albanian.
    About the lack of maritime vocabulary, after the Roman occupation of Illyria, we definitely lost control of our coastal cities. During the history, on several occasions we have regained control over these cities but never for a century uninterruptedly. The Albanians were there, 5 kilometers from the sea, but without control over the sea. Open a map and look, for example, where is my region and where is the city of Vlora.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LABERIA View Post
    Indo-European languages
    Albanian language is one of ten major branches of the Indoeuropean languages and was not the tiny language of a small group of person in a not specified place in Balkans.
    Personally i have to make a correction to the article of the Wiki. If we accept the Illyrian origine of the Albanians, Proto-Albanian has not evolved from Illyrians, Illyrians was the Proto-Albanian.
    About the lack of maritime vocabulary, after the Roman occupation of Illyria, we definitely lost control of our coastal cities. During the history, on several occasions we have regained control over these cities but never for a century uninterruptedly. The Albanians were there, 5 kilometers from the sea, but without control over the sea. Open a map and look, for example, where is my region and where is the city of Vlora.
    Can you link when Albanians had control of the coastal cities in modern Albania
    records only show Corinthian Greeks created many cities from 700BC......where then taken oven by epirotes tribes, a few of the 14 they had, then Macedonia ruled them, then Romans, from 179BC until fall of roman empire, followed by goths, byzantine, normans
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    @ Moesan

    somehow I tend to agree,

    It is complicated,

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