Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

Brain Switch-off Protocol Initiated for vlla:

Edit

EtymologyEdit

Uncertain.
1) From Proto-Albanian *swe-laudā, *swe representing the reflexive *u (self), and *lauda, from Proto-Indo-European *h₁lewdʰ- (man, people), thus meaning belonging to the same people.[1]
2) From *vëllaz (in plural (Gheg) vëllazën), from *waládža, from Proto-Albanian *(a)waládja, metathesis of *awádlja, from Proto-Indo-European*h₂euh₂ó-dʰli̯os (mother's brother). Same sense development as motër (sister), from *méh₂treh₂(mother's sister).
3) From Proto-Albanian **h₁lewdʰ-, Possibly < *uai-láu(d) (< *suoi- h1loudhi-), an old compound with the reflexive pronoun ve(të) (own, self). The plural stem *vəɫaz- (> vëllezër / vëllazën) can be derived phonetically from *laudźi-.[2] Possibly related to Phrygian vela (vela, family, relatives). A connection to Finnish veli, Estonian veli (brother) (see Proto-Finnic *velji) has been proposed, although this is improbable.

Oh, you are one of those wiki people also who don't even read from primary sources directly?

Your theory is crap and wrong, just understand that. The very fact that in plural there is a Z in Vllezer should have struck a bell in your head if you had any clue.

For sister plural we dont say Motezera, we simply say motra/motrat.

If Albanian vëlla had come from Indo European brhter like Albanian. moter comes from Indo European mhter, we wouldn't see such a plural formation like vëllezër, vëllezërit which is something entirely different to motra/motrat

This is the crux of the Dunning-Kruger effect, you make one superficial comparison and believe that you have figured it out, but because of your low ability you don't understand how superficial your idea even is.
 
I’m not retarded to buy the books of Albanalogist losers who found a niche in the Albanian market and are trying to earn their bread from our complexes. I mean who’d study a useless language like Albanian nowadays anyway? They’re better off with dead languages such as Ancient Greek and Latin.

Mr. Logic here is trying to reason with the Albanian plural of a certain word. Reminds me of:

[h=3]Linguistic humor, The English lesson[/h]We'll begin with box, and the plural is boxes;
But the plural of ox should be oxen, not oxes.

Then one fowl is goose, but two are called geese,
Yet the plural of moose should never be meese.

You may find a lone mouse or a nest full of mice,
Yet the plural of house is houses, not hice.

If the plural of man is always called men,
Why shouldn't the plural of pan be called pen?

The cow in the plural may be cows or kine,
But the plural of vow is vows, not vine.

I speak of my foot and show you my feet,
If I give you a boot, would a pair be called beet?

If one is a tooth, and a whole set are teeth,
Why shouldn't the plural of booth be called beeth?

If the singular is this and the plural is these,
Why shouldn't the plural of kiss be named kese?

Then one may be that, and three may be those,
Yet the plural of hat would never be hose;

We speak of a brother, and also of brethren,
But though we say mother, we never say methren.

The masculine pronouns are he, his and him,
But imagine the feminine she, shis, and shim!
 
Facts: Middle English brother, from Old Englishbrōþor, from Proto-West Germanic *brōþer, from Proto-Germanic *brōþēr (compare North FrisianBröðer, West Frisian broer, Dutch broeder, GermanBruder, Danish broder, Norwegian bror), from Proto-Indo-European *bʰréh₂tēr (compare Irish bráthair, Welsh brawd, Latin frāter, Ancient Greek φράτηρ(phrátēr), Armenian եղբայր (ełbayr), Tocharian Apracar, Tocharian B procer, Russian брат (brat), Lithuanian brolis, Persian برادر(barādar),Northern Kurdish bira, Sanskrit भ्रातृ (bhrātṛ)). Add Illyrian bra.

Modern Albanologist: let’s go straight to swe-slough, swe-laudza from 4000 B.C and skip bra.

Oh, by the way, ‘bra’ is attested by Hesychius.

[FONT=-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Segoe UI, Roboto, Lato, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Hesychius of [/FONT]Alexandria[FONT=-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Segoe UI, Roboto, Lato, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] ([/FONT]Greek[FONT=-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Segoe UI, Roboto, Lato, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]: [/FONT]Ἡσύχιος ὁ Ἀλεξανδρεύς[FONT=-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Segoe UI, Roboto, Lato, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif], [/FONT]Hēsýchios ho Alexandreús[FONT=-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Segoe UI, Roboto, Lato, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif], "Hesychios the Alexandrian") was a [/FONT]Greekgrammarian[FONT=-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Segoe UI, Roboto, Lato, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] who, probably in the 5th or 6th century AD,[/FONT][1][FONT=-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Segoe UI, Roboto, Lato, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] compiled the richest [/FONT]lexicon[FONT=-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Segoe UI, Roboto, Lato, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] of unusual and obscure [/FONT]Greek[FONT=-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Segoe UI, Roboto, Lato, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] words that has survived, probably by absorbing the works of earlier lexicographers.
[/FONT]
Important takeaway, during Hesychius time the Greek Beta was pronounced as ‘v’ and not ‘b’ like before, therefore Hesychius probably meant ‘vra’.

Let’s also not forget the possibility of errors and him miss-hearing the strong ‘L’ (double L in Alb) and mistaking it for an ‘r’.

In Classical Greek, the letter beta ⟨β⟩ denoted . As a result of betacism, it has come to denote [v] in Modern Greek, a process which probably began during the Koine Greek period, approximately in the 1st century CE, along with the spirantization of the sounds represented by the letters δ and γ.
 
It sure was, I've always been fascinated by the Teskoto dance, I believe it's danced by Macedonians living in a region close to the borders of Albania, in or around Dibra. They use the same pants, instruments, and slow step war dance like Ghegs in these videos



Yup. These guys are from old Galicnik if I'm not mistaken. They changed the uniform a bit now.

The only inconsistency is them claiming it came from ancient Macedonians and that Dibrans stole it from them lmao
 
Topalli argues it is a loan from Turkish. cüppe (kaftan dress)

Thanks. Sounds quite unlikely though. Are there any mid development words that might strengthen this opinion? ü becoming u and pp becoming b and -letta as an ending sounds really far fetched.
 
Thanks. Sounds quite unlikely though. Are there any mid development words that might strengthen this opinion? ü becoming u and pp becoming b and -letta as an ending sounds really far fetched.

Turkish pencere loaned into Alb became penxhere (window). Cuppe might become xhuppe-lehtë (light-dress)?
 
Bulatovic argues that there are suggestions in material culture of Bessi moving west in the 100s AD.


Interestingly, this culture overlaps with the toponyms Nish & Shtip, an area where a proto-Albanian speaking people is argued to have been living for a while prior to the Slavs.


FLt3UpwX0AQf5hG
 
Bulatovic argues that there are suggestions in material culture of Bessi moving west in the 100s AD.


Interestingly, this culture overlaps with the toponyms Nish & Shtip, an area where a proto-Albanian speaking people is argued to have been living for a while prior to the Slavs.


FLt3UpwX0AQf5hG

From another paper of his on this same issue, there are some very interesting takeaways:


"Ethnic determination and the conclusion

Finally, the question of ethnic determinations of the population thatinhabited this territory in the Roman period (that is, the questionwhich population used the above-mentioned necropolises and rectangular vessels in the sepulchral sacrifice rituals) emerges.The opinion represented by F. Papazoglu was that the lower flowof Južna Morava river and the upper flow of the Vardar was Thracianuntil the 3rd century BC, when it was conquered by the Dardani(Papazoglu 1969, 188), but she noted that opposite option also was possible (Papazoglu 1969, 160). The archaeological material doesnot say much, since it is uniform and comes down to ceramics withHellenistic influences, which are present in the wide territory of thesouthern Balkans, Thrace and the Aegean world; this broad presencerenders ethnic determination rather difficult. Later, however, in the lateantiquity, it is clear that both ceramic material and funerary rites havea Thracian origin. Toponomastics present a similar picture. Thraciannames are commonly attested in the valley of the Južna Morava andthe area to its east (Papazoglu 1969, 188). From one source we learnthat in the mid-2nd century, most of the young men recruited into thearmy from Scupi, Naissus, and Remesiana were Thracians. A. Jovanovićcompares the tomb from Gornjane near Bor with Thracian built tombs,and claims that the deceased was of Thracian origin (Јовановић 2004,195). The mode of burial beneath the tumuli is most certainly associated with autochthonous Thracian tradition.

Even in Pomoravlje region,where such mounds were discovered, the presence of a large quantityof Thracian anthroponyms suggests the intensive presence of Thracianethnic community in this area (Цончев 1960, 101-103; 1960а, 121-122). F. Papazoglu also noted that the territory of distribution of burialsunder mounds coincides with the areas where an important presence ofThracian ethnic elements was noted (Papazoglu 1969, 187-189).

All this suggests that this region was indeed inhabited by Thracianpopulation in the Roman times, but the question remains as to whichThracian tribe or tribes practiced incineration and made grave offerings in the shape of rectangular or, more rarely, circular kernoi.Historical sources mention Thracian tribes of Maedi, Dentheletae and Bessi in the territory east of the lower flow of the Južna Morava river and the upper flow of the Vardar at the end of the BC era. The tribesof Maedi and Dentheletae are no longer mentioned in the period ofthe Roman Empire, but the Bessi are still present in the sources, and sothis paper will pay more attention to them. Bessi are mentioned for thefirst time in the 5th century BC, by Herodotus, who describes them as fearless warriors and free Thracians of Satrian origin, who live in highmountains and perform duties at the oracle of Dionysus (Herod. VII,111). Strabo later says that this Thracian tribe comprised most of theHaemus area, sharing the border along the Rhodopes with Paeones, andsharing the Illyrian border with the Autariatae and Dardani (Papazoglu1969, 145).

It is difficult to accept that Dardani at this period had spreadas far east as the Strymon and Haemus, and so the only acceptable solution to explain this source is that the Bessi expanded up to the JužnaMorava valley (i.e., to the mountains to the east from it). This placesthem in the territory where rectangular altars were in use somewhatlater. It is difficult to say why the Bessi expanded to the west, but onereason certainly could have been the Celts, whose presence grows morecertain in light of new research, in the areas of western Bulgaria. M.Tačeva criticizes such viewpoint of some authors, considering that it isnot very probable that Scordisci had their state on the Bessi territory(Тачева 1987, 44). From our point of view, though, this may be exactlythe reason for their migrations to the west. Archaeological materialdoes not confirm such a hypothesis, however, since finds of rectangularaltars do not exist on this territory prior to the 3rd century. That thistribe was mobile is attested by the fact that a large population of Bessi was forcibly moved to Dobrudža in the 1st century (Тачева 1987, 177).

To corroborate hypothesis about the spread of some Thracian tribes tothe west, we will mention one inscription from Scupi on which TitusAurelius claims to be Bessus (Papazoglu 1969, 187). The very fact thathe emphasizes his national affiliation suggests it probably was not common for Scupi, but also suggests Bessi were living in the neighbouring area. This ethnonym is also found on a stele from Klečevce nearKumanovo, likewise in the region of Vidin (Stankovska 2004, 168). OneLatin inscription from the 3rd century AD mentions a Bessus born inthe region of Serdica in vicus Magari (Taчева 1987, 171). Also important is a reference to an autochthonous settlement, located, accordingto the author, in the region of north-western Thrace in the vicinity ofPautalia and Serdica, called Bessapara (Taчева 1982, 442). The ecclesiastical writer Paulinus of Nola, who was writing about bishop Nicetasof Remesiana who was Christianizing the Bessi (Мирковић 1981, 102),also confirms the tribe’s presence. This information may be dated inthe period between the years AD 366 and 415. Procopius, in his workDe aedificiis, mentions that in Dardania were restored the fortressesBesiana and Besaiana, which again indicate their presence on the eastern periphery of Dardania (Прокопије 1955, 60). Bessi were also referred to as skillful miners, which is particularly interesting, since lot ofslag was discovered at the necropolis at Popovyane and smelting kilnswere found in the vicinity of necropolis. Among other things, this mayalso tie necropolises with rectangular and circular kernoi to the Bessipopulation. Perhaps this was the very reason for the presence of Bessiin this territory, because it is a known fact that some Roman emperorsmoved by decree people from Thrace, Dalmatia and Asia Minor intothe ore-rich regions of the central Balkans. After the 4th century AD,judging by skeletal graves, they begin to fit into the civilization of theEastern Roman Empire, and the fact that the Byzantine emperor Leo I(457-474) was Bessus (Miteva 1988, 12-16) also testifies to this. The lastmention of Bessi is from the 11th-century Strategikon, by the Byzantinewriter Kekaumenos, who says that the Vlach people are descendantsof Dacians and Bessi (Cecaumenus 1896, 74). A. Jovanović also considers this population to be the Bessi population, and he finds thesenecropolises, their incinerated burials, and kernoi as the most securedconfirmation of this hypothesis (Јовановић 2003, 34-36).After all this data, it is certain that the population that inhabited theterritory where the altars of rectangular and circular base were used inLate Antiquity was definitely of Thracian origin. Thanks to the historical sources, as well as the disposition of necropolises and the somewhatconservative ornamentation, it seems that more precise ethnic determination may tie the Bessi to the rite of sacrificing in rectangular and circular altars in the above-mentioned territory.

Certainly, such a hypothesismust be accepted with certain caution because, amongst other reasons,some of the antique historiographers labeled all the Thracians Bessi. Inboth cases, however, it is most certainly a population of Thracian origin.Shallow vessels with rectangular or, more rarely, circular base withone or several containers (cups) in the inside or at the rim were discovered mainly on the necropolises, but were also noted, in much smallernumber, within settlements. The purpose of these vessels, which strikingly resemble prehistoric and antique kernoi, was evidently of sepulchral-sacral character. They were used during the burial ritual, andwere placed in graves perhaps as symbols of the “other” house, the one the deceased will be using in the afterlife. Finds of these vessels withinsettlements (for example, finds from villa in Kralev Dol) or in a refusepit alongside the pottery kiln (as at Viminacium), suggest they werealso used in other sacral purposes (as altars) or even in everyday life.Necropolises on which this type of kernos is present are limitedto the mountainous area of modern south-eastern Serbia, westernBulgaria and north-eastern Macedonia. The only exception is thenecropolis near Smolyan, in the central part of the Rhodopes, i.e. insouthwestern Bulgaria.It is interesting to observe that similar burial customs (smaller,low tumuli with stone construction and incinerated burials) were alsonoted in Middle/Late Bronze Age necropolises in eastern Serbia, withvessels that had smaller containers resembling kernoi, and similar potswere also discovered on and Early Bronze age site in north-easternMacedonia.

It is assumed that the custom of using the kernoi datesfrom prehistoric periods and therefore it may be connected with theautochthonous population. Other pottery finds noted alongside therectangular and circular kernoi on necropolises with incinerations inthis territory are also unified to a large extent. They include the samepottery forms (ovoid urns, biconical beakers with two or three handles,bell-shaped cups, low small pots with two handles, etc.), and by far themost common ornamental technique is stamping. Ornamental motivesfrom these vessels, which are present in the area since the Early IronAge, also suggest strong ties to this population with the tradition anddeep respect for the cultural-religious inheritance of the ancestors.Necropolises with kernoi are dated into the period from 2nd until4th century AD, but in the early 4th century, alongside incinerations, inhumations begin to emerge (Donja Ljubata, Otošnica).

This suggestscertain changes in the social-religious behavior of this population, specifically the beginning of Christianization in this relatively isolated areaof the Roman Empire, which ends with the final Christianization of theBessi population in the early 5th century, as historical sources report.Administratively, this region has always been a border territory between several provinces, which, along with the inaccessible mountainous terrain, was a great obstacle to the Roman establishment of authorityover this population. This might explain the phenomenon of such a conservative population, with burial practices and pottery styles and traitsthat originate from prehistory and that existed in this area all the waythrough the Late Antiquity, perhaps even into Early Byzantine period.Taking into consideration all the historical sources and the analysis of the remains of the material and spiritual culture in this territory,it is certain that this population, which used rectangular and circularkernoi, was of Thracian origin. We are inclined to support the earlierhypothesis of A. Jovanović, although with certain caution, that thiswas in fact a population of Bessi."

LINK: https://www.academia.edu/11617261/H...Serbia_Eastern_Macedonia_and_Western_Bulgaria
 
From another paper of his on this same issue, there are some very interesting takeaways:


"Ethnic determination and the conclusion

Finally, the question of ethnic determinations of the population thatinhabited this territory in the Roman period (that is, the questionwhich population used the above-mentioned necropolises and rectangular vessels in the sepulchral sacrifice rituals) emerges.The opinion represented by F. Papazoglu was that the lower flowof Južna Morava river and the upper flow of the Vardar was Thracianuntil the 3rd century BC, when it was conquered by the Dardani(Papazoglu 1969, 188), but she noted that opposite option also was possible (Papazoglu 1969, 160). The archaeological material doesnot say much, since it is uniform and comes down to ceramics withHellenistic influences, which are present in the wide territory of thesouthern Balkans, Thrace and the Aegean world; this broad presencerenders ethnic determination rather difficult. Later, however, in the lateantiquity, it is clear that both ceramic material and funerary rites havea Thracian origin. Toponomastics present a similar picture. Thraciannames are commonly attested in the valley of the Južna Morava andthe area to its east (Papazoglu 1969, 188). From one source we learnthat in the mid-2nd century, most of the young men recruited into thearmy from Scupi, Naissus, and Remesiana were Thracians. A. Jovanovićcompares the tomb from Gornjane near Bor with Thracian built tombs,and claims that the deceased was of Thracian origin (Јовановић 2004,195). The mode of burial beneath the tumuli is most certainly associated with autochthonous Thracian tradition.

Even in Pomoravlje region,where such mounds were discovered, the presence of a large quantityof Thracian anthroponyms suggests the intensive presence of Thracianethnic community in this area (Цончев 1960, 101-103; 1960а, 121-122). F. Papazoglu also noted that the territory of distribution of burialsunder mounds coincides with the areas where an important presence ofThracian ethnic elements was noted (Papazoglu 1969, 187-189).

All this suggests that this region was indeed inhabited by Thracianpopulation in the Roman times, but the question remains as to whichThracian tribe or tribes practiced incineration and made grave offerings in the shape of rectangular or, more rarely, circular kernoi.Historical sources mention Thracian tribes of Maedi, Dentheletae and Bessi in the territory east of the lower flow of the Južna Morava river and the upper flow of the Vardar at the end of the BC era. The tribesof Maedi and Dentheletae are no longer mentioned in the period ofthe Roman Empire, but the Bessi are still present in the sources, and sothis paper will pay more attention to them. Bessi are mentioned for thefirst time in the 5th century BC, by Herodotus, who describes them as fearless warriors and free Thracians of Satrian origin, who live in highmountains and perform duties at the oracle of Dionysus (Herod. VII,111). Strabo later says that this Thracian tribe comprised most of theHaemus area, sharing the border along the Rhodopes with Paeones, andsharing the Illyrian border with the Autariatae and Dardani (Papazoglu1969, 145).

It is difficult to accept that Dardani at this period had spreadas far east as the Strymon and Haemus, and so the only acceptable solution to explain this source is that the Bessi expanded up to the JužnaMorava valley (i.e., to the mountains to the east from it). This placesthem in the territory where rectangular altars were in use somewhatlater. It is difficult to say why the Bessi expanded to the west, but onereason certainly could have been the Celts, whose presence grows morecertain in light of new research, in the areas of western Bulgaria. M.Tačeva criticizes such viewpoint of some authors, considering that it isnot very probable that Scordisci had their state on the Bessi territory(Тачева 1987, 44). From our point of view, though, this may be exactlythe reason for their migrations to the west. Archaeological materialdoes not confirm such a hypothesis, however, since finds of rectangularaltars do not exist on this territory prior to the 3rd century. That thistribe was mobile is attested by the fact that a large population of Bessi was forcibly moved to Dobrudža in the 1st century (Тачева 1987, 177).

To corroborate hypothesis about the spread of some Thracian tribes tothe west, we will mention one inscription from Scupi on which TitusAurelius claims to be Bessus (Papazoglu 1969, 187). The very fact thathe emphasizes his national affiliation suggests it probably was not common for Scupi, but also suggests Bessi were living in the neighbouring area. This ethnonym is also found on a stele from Klečevce nearKumanovo, likewise in the region of Vidin (Stankovska 2004, 168). OneLatin inscription from the 3rd century AD mentions a Bessus born inthe region of Serdica in vicus Magari (Taчева 1987, 171). Also important is a reference to an autochthonous settlement, located, accordingto the author, in the region of north-western Thrace in the vicinity ofPautalia and Serdica, called Bessapara (Taчева 1982, 442). The ecclesiastical writer Paulinus of Nola, who was writing about bishop Nicetasof Remesiana who was Christianizing the Bessi (Мирковић 1981, 102),also confirms the tribe’s presence. This information may be dated inthe period between the years AD 366 and 415. Procopius, in his workDe aedificiis, mentions that in Dardania were restored the fortressesBesiana and Besaiana, which again indicate their presence on the eastern periphery of Dardania (Прокопије 1955, 60). Bessi were also referred to as skillful miners, which is particularly interesting, since lot ofslag was discovered at the necropolis at Popovyane and smelting kilnswere found in the vicinity of necropolis. Among other things, this mayalso tie necropolises with rectangular and circular kernoi to the Bessipopulation. Perhaps this was the very reason for the presence of Bessiin this territory, because it is a known fact that some Roman emperorsmoved by decree people from Thrace, Dalmatia and Asia Minor intothe ore-rich regions of the central Balkans. After the 4th century AD,judging by skeletal graves, they begin to fit into the civilization of theEastern Roman Empire, and the fact that the Byzantine emperor Leo I(457-474) was Bessus (Miteva 1988, 12-16) also testifies to this. The lastmention of Bessi is from the 11th-century Strategikon, by the Byzantinewriter Kekaumenos, who says that the Vlach people are descendantsof Dacians and Bessi (Cecaumenus 1896, 74). A. Jovanović also considers this population to be the Bessi population, and he finds thesenecropolises, their incinerated burials, and kernoi as the most securedconfirmation of this hypothesis (Јовановић 2003, 34-36).After all this data, it is certain that the population that inhabited theterritory where the altars of rectangular and circular base were used inLate Antiquity was definitely of Thracian origin. Thanks to the historical sources, as well as the disposition of necropolises and the somewhatconservative ornamentation, it seems that more precise ethnic determination may tie the Bessi to the rite of sacrificing in rectangular and circular altars in the above-mentioned territory.

Certainly, such a hypothesismust be accepted with certain caution because, amongst other reasons,some of the antique historiographers labeled all the Thracians Bessi. Inboth cases, however, it is most certainly a population of Thracian origin.Shallow vessels with rectangular or, more rarely, circular base withone or several containers (cups) in the inside or at the rim were discovered mainly on the necropolises, but were also noted, in much smallernumber, within settlements. The purpose of these vessels, which strikingly resemble prehistoric and antique kernoi, was evidently of sepulchral-sacral character. They were used during the burial ritual, andwere placed in graves perhaps as symbols of the “other” house, the one the deceased will be using in the afterlife. Finds of these vessels withinsettlements (for example, finds from villa in Kralev Dol) or in a refusepit alongside the pottery kiln (as at Viminacium), suggest they werealso used in other sacral purposes (as altars) or even in everyday life.Necropolises on which this type of kernos is present are limitedto the mountainous area of modern south-eastern Serbia, westernBulgaria and north-eastern Macedonia. The only exception is thenecropolis near Smolyan, in the central part of the Rhodopes, i.e. insouthwestern Bulgaria.It is interesting to observe that similar burial customs (smaller,low tumuli with stone construction and incinerated burials) were alsonoted in Middle/Late Bronze Age necropolises in eastern Serbia, withvessels that had smaller containers resembling kernoi, and similar potswere also discovered on and Early Bronze age site in north-easternMacedonia.

It is assumed that the custom of using the kernoi datesfrom prehistoric periods and therefore it may be connected with theautochthonous population. Other pottery finds noted alongside therectangular and circular kernoi on necropolises with incinerations inthis territory are also unified to a large extent. They include the samepottery forms (ovoid urns, biconical beakers with two or three handles,bell-shaped cups, low small pots with two handles, etc.), and by far themost common ornamental technique is stamping. Ornamental motivesfrom these vessels, which are present in the area since the Early IronAge, also suggest strong ties to this population with the tradition anddeep respect for the cultural-religious inheritance of the ancestors.Necropolises with kernoi are dated into the period from 2nd until4th century AD, but in the early 4th century, alongside incinerations, inhumations begin to emerge (Donja Ljubata, Otošnica).

This suggestscertain changes in the social-religious behavior of this population, specifically the beginning of Christianization in this relatively isolated areaof the Roman Empire, which ends with the final Christianization of theBessi population in the early 5th century, as historical sources report.Administratively, this region has always been a border territory between several provinces, which, along with the inaccessible mountainous terrain, was a great obstacle to the Roman establishment of authorityover this population. This might explain the phenomenon of such a conservative population, with burial practices and pottery styles and traitsthat originate from prehistory and that existed in this area all the waythrough the Late Antiquity, perhaps even into Early Byzantine period.Taking into consideration all the historical sources and the analysis of the remains of the material and spiritual culture in this territory,it is certain that this population, which used rectangular and circularkernoi, was of Thracian origin. We are inclined to support the earlierhypothesis of A. Jovanović, although with certain caution, that thiswas in fact a population of Bessi."

LINK: https://www.academia.edu/11617261/H...Serbia_Eastern_Macedonia_and_Western_Bulgaria

If we could test some of those skeletons when inhumation begins, what haplogroups would they most probably belong to?
 
If we could test some of those skeletons when inhumation begins, what haplogroups would they most probably belong to?

At that time surely mixed, but very likely high in E-V13 and probably almost indistuishable from the samples we know from Viminacium (Balkan IA cluster). We will see how close the typical (without recent admixture from the Levante or North) samples in Viminacium and Timacum minus are. That's quite some time and space covered for the Roman era.
 
The clown has no opinions and thoughts of his own, only acting on the scripts given to him.

Shame on me for expecting answer from clowns with 0 analytical skills besides parroting failed bankrupt linguists.
 
Turkish pencere loaned into Alb became penxhere (window). Cuppe might become xhuppe-lehtë (light-dress)?

So far I have seen from Malesia e Madhe Albanians I would definitely not call the dress light weight.

As for pencere that is quite obvious since it has an ugly sound. No one where I am from uses that word I have only heard Albania Albanians use it but that is not a surprise to me since they use a heavy load of Turkish words in their speech. Team Dritare here :LOL:
 
So far I have seen from Malesia e Madhe Albanians I would definitely not call the dress light weight.

As for pencere that is quite obvious since it has an ugly sound. No one where I am from uses that word I have only heard Albania Albanians use it but that is not a surprise to me since they use a heavy load of Turkish words in their speech. Team Dritare here :LOL:

More of a standard Albanian issue rather than an Albania issue as alot of northern Gheg regions still use their own local dialects. At least among themselves.
 
So far I have seen from Malesia e Madhe Albanians I would definitely not call the dress light weight.

As for pencere that is quite obvious since it has an ugly sound. No one where I am from uses that word I have only heard Albania Albanians use it but that is not a surprise to me since they use a heavy load of Turkish words in their speech. Team Dritare here :LOL:
Do you really believe Albania has use more Ottoman words than Kosovo?

Part of the reason Albanians from Albania don’t understand those from Kosovo is specifically the usage of Turkish and Serbian words in Kosovo.

In Albania we have more Italian words yet interestingly Kosovo uses ‘malltretu’ whereas we say ‘keqtrajtu’. Never understood why that word exists in Kosovo.
 
From another paper of his on this same issue, there are some very interesting takeaways:


"Ethnic determination and the conclusion

Finally, the question of ethnic determinations of the population thatinhabited this territory in the Roman period (that is, the questionwhich population used the above-mentioned necropolises and rectangular vessels in the sepulchral sacrifice rituals) emerges.The opinion represented by F. Papazoglu was that the lower flowof Južna Morava river and the upper flow of the Vardar was Thracianuntil the 3rd century BC, when it was conquered by the Dardani(Papazoglu 1969, 188), but she noted that opposite option also was possible (Papazoglu 1969, 160). The archaeological material doesnot say much, since it is uniform and comes down to ceramics withHellenistic influences, which are present in the wide territory of thesouthern Balkans, Thrace and the Aegean world; this broad presencerenders ethnic determination rather difficult. Later, however, in the lateantiquity, it is clear that both ceramic material and funerary rites havea Thracian origin. Toponomastics present a similar picture. Thraciannames are commonly attested in the valley of the Južna Morava andthe area to its east (Papazoglu 1969, 188). From one source we learnthat in the mid-2nd century, most of the young men recruited into thearmy from Scupi, Naissus, and Remesiana were Thracians. A. Jovanovićcompares the tomb from Gornjane near Bor with Thracian built tombs,and claims that the deceased was of Thracian origin (Јовановић 2004,195). The mode of burial beneath the tumuli is most certainly associated with autochthonous Thracian tradition.

Even in Pomoravlje region,where such mounds were discovered, the presence of a large quantityof Thracian anthroponyms suggests the intensive presence of Thracianethnic community in this area (Цончев 1960, 101-103; 1960а, 121-122). F. Papazoglu also noted that the territory of distribution of burialsunder mounds coincides with the areas where an important presence ofThracian ethnic elements was noted (Papazoglu 1969, 187-189).

All this suggests that this region was indeed inhabited by Thracianpopulation in the Roman times, but the question remains as to whichThracian tribe or tribes practiced incineration and made grave offerings in the shape of rectangular or, more rarely, circular kernoi.Historical sources mention Thracian tribes of Maedi, Dentheletae and Bessi in the territory east of the lower flow of the Južna Morava river and the upper flow of the Vardar at the end of the BC era. The tribesof Maedi and Dentheletae are no longer mentioned in the period ofthe Roman Empire, but the Bessi are still present in the sources, and sothis paper will pay more attention to them. Bessi are mentioned for thefirst time in the 5th century BC, by Herodotus, who describes them as fearless warriors and free Thracians of Satrian origin, who live in highmountains and perform duties at the oracle of Dionysus (Herod. VII,111). Strabo later says that this Thracian tribe comprised most of theHaemus area, sharing the border along the Rhodopes with Paeones, andsharing the Illyrian border with the Autariatae and Dardani (Papazoglu1969, 145).

It is difficult to accept that Dardani at this period had spreadas far east as the Strymon and Haemus, and so the only acceptable solution to explain this source is that the Bessi expanded up to the JužnaMorava valley (i.e., to the mountains to the east from it). This placesthem in the territory where rectangular altars were in use somewhatlater. It is difficult to say why the Bessi expanded to the west, but onereason certainly could have been the Celts, whose presence grows morecertain in light of new research, in the areas of western Bulgaria. M.Tačeva criticizes such viewpoint of some authors, considering that it isnot very probable that Scordisci had their state on the Bessi territory(Тачева 1987, 44). From our point of view, though, this may be exactlythe reason for their migrations to the west. Archaeological materialdoes not confirm such a hypothesis, however, since finds of rectangularaltars do not exist on this territory prior to the 3rd century. That thistribe was mobile is attested by the fact that a large population of Bessi was forcibly moved to Dobrudža in the 1st century (Тачева 1987, 177).

To corroborate hypothesis about the spread of some Thracian tribes tothe west, we will mention one inscription from Scupi on which TitusAurelius claims to be Bessus (Papazoglu 1969, 187). The very fact thathe emphasizes his national affiliation suggests it probably was not common for Scupi, but also suggests Bessi were living in the neighbouring area. This ethnonym is also found on a stele from Klečevce nearKumanovo, likewise in the region of Vidin (Stankovska 2004, 168). OneLatin inscription from the 3rd century AD mentions a Bessus born inthe region of Serdica in vicus Magari (Taчева 1987, 171). Also important is a reference to an autochthonous settlement, located, accordingto the author, in the region of north-western Thrace in the vicinity ofPautalia and Serdica, called Bessapara (Taчева 1982, 442). The ecclesiastical writer Paulinus of Nola, who was writing about bishop Nicetasof Remesiana who was Christianizing the Bessi (Мирковић 1981, 102),also confirms the tribe’s presence. This information may be dated inthe period between the years AD 366 and 415. Procopius, in his workDe aedificiis, mentions that in Dardania were restored the fortressesBesiana and Besaiana, which again indicate their presence on the eastern periphery of Dardania (Прокопије 1955, 60). Bessi were also referred to as skillful miners, which is particularly interesting, since lot ofslag was discovered at the necropolis at Popovyane and smelting kilnswere found in the vicinity of necropolis. Among other things, this mayalso tie necropolises with rectangular and circular kernoi to the Bessipopulation. Perhaps this was the very reason for the presence of Bessiin this territory, because it is a known fact that some Roman emperorsmoved by decree people from Thrace, Dalmatia and Asia Minor intothe ore-rich regions of the central Balkans. After the 4th century AD,judging by skeletal graves, they begin to fit into the civilization of theEastern Roman Empire, and the fact that the Byzantine emperor Leo I(457-474) was Bessus (Miteva 1988, 12-16) also testifies to this. The lastmention of Bessi is from the 11th-century Strategikon, by the Byzantinewriter Kekaumenos, who says that the Vlach people are descendantsof Dacians and Bessi (Cecaumenus 1896, 74). A. Jovanović also considers this population to be the Bessi population, and he finds thesenecropolises, their incinerated burials, and kernoi as the most securedconfirmation of this hypothesis (Јовановић 2003, 34-36).After all this data, it is certain that the population that inhabited theterritory where the altars of rectangular and circular base were used inLate Antiquity was definitely of Thracian origin. Thanks to the historical sources, as well as the disposition of necropolises and the somewhatconservative ornamentation, it seems that more precise ethnic determination may tie the Bessi to the rite of sacrificing in rectangular and circular altars in the above-mentioned territory.

Certainly, such a hypothesismust be accepted with certain caution because, amongst other reasons,some of the antique historiographers labeled all the Thracians Bessi. Inboth cases, however, it is most certainly a population of Thracian origin.Shallow vessels with rectangular or, more rarely, circular base withone or several containers (cups) in the inside or at the rim were discovered mainly on the necropolises, but were also noted, in much smallernumber, within settlements. The purpose of these vessels, which strikingly resemble prehistoric and antique kernoi, was evidently of sepulchral-sacral character. They were used during the burial ritual, andwere placed in graves perhaps as symbols of the “other” house, the one the deceased will be using in the afterlife. Finds of these vessels withinsettlements (for example, finds from villa in Kralev Dol) or in a refusepit alongside the pottery kiln (as at Viminacium), suggest they werealso used in other sacral purposes (as altars) or even in everyday life.Necropolises on which this type of kernos is present are limitedto the mountainous area of modern south-eastern Serbia, westernBulgaria and north-eastern Macedonia. The only exception is thenecropolis near Smolyan, in the central part of the Rhodopes, i.e. insouthwestern Bulgaria.It is interesting to observe that similar burial customs (smaller,low tumuli with stone construction and incinerated burials) were alsonoted in Middle/Late Bronze Age necropolises in eastern Serbia, withvessels that had smaller containers resembling kernoi, and similar potswere also discovered on and Early Bronze age site in north-easternMacedonia.

It is assumed that the custom of using the kernoi datesfrom prehistoric periods and therefore it may be connected with theautochthonous population. Other pottery finds noted alongside therectangular and circular kernoi on necropolises with incinerations inthis territory are also unified to a large extent. They include the samepottery forms (ovoid urns, biconical beakers with two or three handles,bell-shaped cups, low small pots with two handles, etc.), and by far themost common ornamental technique is stamping. Ornamental motivesfrom these vessels, which are present in the area since the Early IronAge, also suggest strong ties to this population with the tradition anddeep respect for the cultural-religious inheritance of the ancestors.Necropolises with kernoi are dated into the period from 2nd until4th century AD, but in the early 4th century, alongside incinerations, inhumations begin to emerge (Donja Ljubata, Otošnica).

This suggestscertain changes in the social-religious behavior of this population, specifically the beginning of Christianization in this relatively isolated areaof the Roman Empire, which ends with the final Christianization of theBessi population in the early 5th century, as historical sources report.Administratively, this region has always been a border territory between several provinces, which, along with the inaccessible mountainous terrain, was a great obstacle to the Roman establishment of authorityover this population. This might explain the phenomenon of such a conservative population, with burial practices and pottery styles and traitsthat originate from prehistory and that existed in this area all the waythrough the Late Antiquity, perhaps even into Early Byzantine period.Taking into consideration all the historical sources and the analysis of the remains of the material and spiritual culture in this territory,it is certain that this population, which used rectangular and circularkernoi, was of Thracian origin. We are inclined to support the earlierhypothesis of A. Jovanović, although with certain caution, that thiswas in fact a population of Bessi."

LINK: https://www.academia.edu/11617261/H...Serbia_Eastern_Macedonia_and_Western_Bulgaria

Interesting also that this author believes the celts to be responsible for some Thracians moving west
 
Bulatovic argues that there are suggestions in material culture of Bessi moving west in the 100s AD.


Interestingly, this culture overlaps with the toponyms Nish & Shtip, an area where a proto-Albanian speaking people is argued to have been living for a while prior to the Slavs.


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Fascinatingly, the rectangular vessels which are one of the defining features of this conservative culture, have also been found at Viminacium.

Interesting to note also that they appear mostly in mountainous regions within the border region of Moesia/Thrace/Macedonia which became the border region of Dardania/Macedonia after the reforms of the 3rd Century AD.

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Do you really believe Albania has use more Ottoman words than Kosovo?

Part of the reason Albanians from Albania don’t understand those from Kosovo is specifically the usage of Turkish and Serbian words in Kosovo.

In Albania we have more Italian words yet interestingly Kosovo uses ‘malltretu’ whereas we say ‘keqtrajtu’. Never understood why that word exists in Kosovo.

Where do you see the Serbian in Dritare :LOL:? Yes. Albanians from Albania (those who are heavy on standard Albanian and Tosks) use a lot of Turkish words like icik, pencere, bosh etc. Also that weird r sound you people make sounds quite ugly to my ears.
 
More of a standard Albanian issue rather than an Albania issue as alot of northern Gheg regions still use their own local dialects. At least among themselves.

Definitely.
 
Where do you see the Serbian in Dritare :LOL:? Yes. Albanians from Albania (those who are heavy on standard Albanian and Tosks) use a lot of Turkish words like icik, pencere, bosh etc. Also that weird r sound you people make sounds quite ugly to my ears.
1. Içik is Gheg not Tosk. Ignorance spotted.
2. It’s penxhere not pencere. We all say dritare not penxhere. Ignorance spotted.
3. What’s the “Dardanian” word for bosh?
4. The weird ‘r’ sound is again Gheg, Tosk has a “strong” ‘r’. Ignorance spotted.
5. Your accent is extremely ugly, unpleasant, and un-Albanian to all of us from Albania, Montenegro, North Macedonia, and Greece. The only exception is the mountainous Western Kosovo which is pure Albanian.

Efforts to clean the Albanian language from Turkish loans and other linguistic borrowings have started from the Renaissance period and continue even today. Concentration of attention for cleaning Albanian language from “Turkishness” is visible especially in the Gheg dialect, which has the most of these Turkish word and not only.


References


Kostallari,Adriarik; Rreth depërtimit të turqizmave në gjuhën shqipe gjatë shekujve XVII XVIII, Studime mbileksikun dhe mbi formimin e fjalëve në gjuhën shqipe, V.III, fq.98

Latifi,Lindita;(2006), Mbi huazimet turke në gjuhën shqipe, krahasuar me gjuhët e tjera të Ballkanit, Botimet Dudaj, fq.21

Hysa,Enver (1998), Elemente turke në strukturën e fjalës në gjuhën shqipe”, Studime filologjike 34, fq.149 Demiraj, Shaban; (2004), Rreth huazimeve turke në gjuhën shqipe, Studime filologjike, fq.3-4

Samara, Mico( 01995); Zhvillime leksikosemantike të turqizmave në gjuhën shqipe,Studime filologjike,fq. 1-4 Majer, Gustav; (1891) Fjalori Etimoligjik i gjuhës shqipe.

P.s. Happy Independence Day, independent guy. Te ashtufte shkau listen e dasmes.
 
Prendergast argues that Vlach languages are most likely the result of Proto-Albanian speakers shifting fully to Latin.


Kekaumenos' remark from the 11th century that Vlachs were descendants of the Bessi & Dacians would then imply that Bessi & Dacians spoke proto-Albanian.

"Balkan Romance is the outcome of a full shift of Albanian speakers into the Roman, Late Latin-speaking settlement community, resulting in a form of Balkan Latin that shared many grammatical and some lexical properties with Albanian."

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