Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jire%C4%8Dek_Line#/media/File:Language_border_(Matzinger).png

Albanians and Vlachs could not have originated east of the central Balkans' Latin-speaking region.
Hellenization occurred among the Bessi and other Thracians. They have no resemblance to Albanians or Vlachs.

The history of the Albanian language is one of contraction, not one of expansion. For Albanian to be spoken in Albani territory why does it have to be excluded from Dardania or vice-versa?

The original Balkan Latin-speakers possessed far more E-V13 and J-L283 than contemporary Romanians.
Romanians are approximately 10-15% E-V13 and 5% J-L283, however the Basarab dynasty of Wallachia carried a disproportionate amount of E-V13/J-L283 compared to modern Romanians https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3404992/
Given what we know about the E-V13/J-L283 phylogeny among Romanians, it cannot be disputed that the majority of it originated south of the Danube.

Eric Prendergast (2017), The Origin and Spread of Locative Determiner Omission in the Balkan Linguistic Area :

Despite these difficulties, scholars versed in the literature have made suggestions about possible paleo-Balkan lineages for Albanian, which would clarify the timeline and geographical range of the earliest contact between Albanian and Late Latin (later to become Balkan Romance). Illyrian or Thracian are forwarded as the primary candidates (Çabej 1971:42), with Illyrian having some scholarly consensus (Thunmann 1774:240, Kopitar 1829:85, Katičić 1976:184-188, Polomé 1982:888)—but there is a significant lack of verified inscriptions (Çabej 1971:41, Woodard 2004:11, Mann 1977: 1) and it is unclear whether ‘Illyrian’ as a term used in Roman records even referred to a single common language from which modern Albanian could descend (Hamp 1994). There is, however, evidence that Albanian was spoken over a broader territory in the Balkans than the
contemporary range of territory occupied by its speaker community today (Çabej 1971:41, Demiraj 2004:98, 104). A number of important toponyms in Macedonia, southern Serbia, and Kosovo show reflexes of Albanian phonological developments; e.g. Astibos > Albanian Shtip, Slavic Štip (in eastern Macedonia), Naissus > Albanian Nish, Slavic Niš (in southern Serbia) (Pulaha 1984:11).
The toponym Dobreta, because of its greater distance as mentioned above places, the potential range of the predecessor to Albanian up to the banks of the Danube. This was also the range of significant Latin influence (north of the Jireček Line, which is recognized as the customary division of a northern zone of Latin language influence and from a southern zone of Greek language influence, [Jireček 1911, Friedman 2001b:29]) and corresponded to the area inhabited by pastoral speakers of Balkan Romance well into the Middle Ages. This fits well with a theory forwarded in particular by Hamp (1994) that Albanian is the result of an autochthonous Balkan language that has undergone partial Romanization, while Balkan Romance represents a full language shift, whereby the early form of this Balkan language (its “proto-Albanian” linguistic predecessor) was fully absorbed into Late Latin.

http://linguistics.berkeley.edu/~mikkelsen/papers/ucbdissertation-prendergast.pdf

For linguists these "Proto-Romanians" who moved from south of the Danube to Romania are Proto-Albanian-speakers who switched to Latin.

protoalb.jpg
 
Albanian has Latin loans from the time of the Roman Republic that eastern Balkan Romance doesn't have. You can see it in the language too how loanwords are treated.

Roman Republic

aurum -> ar | au -> a

Roman Empire

causa -> kafshe | au - > af/av

Romanian doesn't have these multiple layers because the Romans didn't conquer the Eastern Balkans until later on. The Illyrians were conquered pretty early on.
 

lol, you are an interesting person, do you really think the lead archaeologist of Macedonia Kuzman would be so dumb as to sell Celtic burials as Encheleian?

Here is the title of his upcoming presentation:

Enheleian Tibal Aristocracy from Lychnis. Archaic Tomb of Warriors from Gorna Porta in Ohrid

https://pebasite.wordpress.com/peba-2020/representations-of-power-an-ancient-macedonian-elite/

To me they are an interesting case since Hammond was connecting Enchelei, Taulanti and Dardanian rulers through the Peresadyes ruling tribe, this name was attested among Odrysian Thracians and Black Sea Kingdom Spartokid dynasty as well.
 

For linguists these "Proto-Romanians" who moved from south of the Danube to Romania are Proto-Albanian-speakers who switched to Latin.

The later Vlachs had many sources, not just one, not just South of the Danube, not just Slavs. However, regardless of the proportions, one thing is for sure, the Romance speakers of the Balkans were surely more generalised Balkan Iron Age people. A mix of preceding populations, rather than being strictly "Proto-Albanian". A more realistic view is that the Southern Romance core was in the wider neighbourhood of the Proto-Albanians and that they shared some ancestral and cultural ties.
The early Albanians themselves are unlikely to have been one homogeneous block, but having assimilated various Romance Balkan elements in their ethnogenesis, which complicates things. The question is rather which profile had the Proto-Albanian clans which came out dominant in the ethnogenesis of the historical Albanians. Where did they live at which point in time - they might have moved around in the Balkans, not being in the same spot throughout the centuries - and to which historical people of the pre-Roman age are they closest to. But its entirely possible that they just formed a core around which other elements being grouped, at the end of the Roman Empire.
 
We'll see how things compare once we get more samples from their respective regions.
 
lol, you are an interesting person, do you really think the lead archaeologist of Macedonia Kuzman would be so dumb as to sell Celtic burials as Encheleian?

Here is the title of his upcoming presentation:



To me they are an interesting case since Hammond was connecting Enchelei, Taulanti and Dardanian rulers through the Peresadyes ruling tribe, this name was attested among Odrysian Thracians and Black Sea Kingdom Spartokid dynasty as well.

Don't bother with him.

Interesting, can you elaborate what exactly Hammond's stand point is and how the Taulanti come into this?
 
The crazy thing about the Illyrian diehards, they have been reduced to making an argument that pretty much comes down to this; "yes Albanians are not related to 95% of Illyrians, but they could be related to the remaining 5% that has not been tested." LMAO

I thought of what you wrote here and here is what these diehards usually write:

The majority of Illyrian samples aren't "Illyrian". The term Illyrian was not applied to those areas until the times of the Roman Empire.

Maybe you should learn some basic history instead of haplobro science.

:LOL::LOL::LOL:

Edit: This guy is TaktikateMalit's sock or something. The Albanian who has the Slavic paternal line I2a1b-Y3120, he posts as ShpataeMadhe on Anthrogenica. Since he has insulted a lot of users here I wanted to just point out the obvious that he is a troll with multiple accounts.
 
I thought of what you wrote here and here is what these diehards usually write:



:LOL::LOL::LOL:

Edit: This guy is TaktikateMalit's sock or something. The Albanian who has the Slavic paternal line I2a1b-Y3120, he posts as ShpataeMadhe on Anthrogenica. Since he has insulted a lot of users here I wanted to just point out the obvious that he is a troll with multiple accounts.

I don't expect someone like you to read books, but you could at least open wikipedia for 10 seconds

"Most scholars hold that the territory originally designated as 'Illyrian' was roughly located in the region of the south-eastern Adriatic (modern Albania and Montenegro) and its hinterland, then was later extended to the whole Roman Illyricum province, which stretched from the eastern Adriatic to the Danube.[7]"

"
In the Macedonian history during the 6th and 5th century B.C., the term 'Illyrian' had a political meaning that was quite definite, denoting a kingdom established on the north-western borders of Upper Macedonia."

All those samples were from a place/time where they were not called or considered "Illyrian". It is only after the Romans came over that the term Illyria was expanded upon.
 
I don't expect someone like you to read books, but you could at least open wikipedia for 10 seconds

"Most scholars hold that the territory originally designated as 'Illyrian' was roughly located in the region of the south-eastern Adriatic (modern Albania and Montenegro) and its hinterland, then was later extended to the whole Roman Illyricum province, which stretched from the eastern Adriatic to the Danube.[7]"

"
In the Macedonian history during the 6th and 5th century B.C., the term 'Illyrian' had a political meaning that was quite definite, denoting a kingdom established on the north-western borders of Upper Macedonia."

All those samples were from a place/time where they were not called or considered "Illyrian". It is only after the Romans came over that the term Illyria was expanded upon.
Wikipedia? :LOL::LOL::LOL: Those are Illyrians attested by both archeology and genetics. You are comparing a Wikipedia article with academic papers :LOL::LOL::LOL:
Talk to yourself or smth I don't have time for you "ShpataEMadhe/TaktikatEMalit" and change your Bio, making sock puppet accounts claiming to be a different persona is weird af. You are a South Albanian Slavic descended I2a1b-Y3120. You hate Slavs that is the reason for all your blabbering.

Pelasgia, Albania, Albanistanioi everrrione is Albania bla bla bla bla that is what you write all the time.
 
I thought of what you wrote here and here is what these diehards usually write:


:LOL::LOL::LOL:

Edit: This guy is TaktikateMalit's sock or something. The Albanian who has the Slavic paternal line I2a1b-Y3120, he posts as ShpataeMadhe on Anthrogenica. Since he has insulted a lot of users here I wanted to just point out the obvious that he is a troll with multiple accounts.


I don't care who he is, I don't engage these people as I see them for what they are, way below me. I have been a member here a long time and never touched this subject until I saw some very reasonable people having a honest debate. That was a moment for me to talk with my people and throw my two cents. As a whole I don't respect the bulk of these apes, they are embarrassing and backward.

Imagine living in Germany and saying I have met a lot of Germans. Then one of these clowns shows up, Caesar called the Germans some tribe near Belgium, haha, you don't know any real Germans. LOL
You know, the Romans who fought and conquered Illyrians didn't even know they were not fighting any real Illyrians, is that possible? Some slob 2,000 years later knows better, and he will say, "most scholars blah blah". Who even talks like that? Most scholars said this, most scholars said that, as if he knows most scholars personally. Hold on, I got some scholars in my pocket, lets hear what they got to say. This makes me chuckle, I can tell you with no shame, Albania is the least scholarly country in Europe, with least respect for scholarly work. But here in the internet, they are the high priest of scholars.
That's not how any honest person would debate. That's the language of a five year old, the teacher's pet, always invoking authority, trying to frame themselves as ambassadors of authority.
 
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The later Vlachs had many sources, not just one, not just South of the Danube, not just Slavs. However, regardless of the proportions, one thing is for sure, the Romance speakers of the Balkans were surely more generalised Balkan Iron Age people. A mix of preceding populations, rather than being strictly "Proto-Albanian". A more realistic view is that the Southern Romance core was in the wider neighbourhood of the Proto-Albanians and that they shared some ancestral and cultural ties.
The early Albanians themselves are unlikely to have been one homogeneous block, but having assimilated various Romance Balkan elements in their ethnogenesis, which complicates things. The question is rather which profile had the Proto-Albanian clans which came out dominant in the ethnogenesis of the historical Albanians. Where did they live at which point in time - they might have moved around in the Balkans, not being in the same spot throughout the centuries - and to which historical people of the pre-Roman age are they closest to. But its entirely possible that they just formed a core around which other elements being grouped, at the end of the Roman Empire.


There could have easily been more than one variant of Proto-Albs, some more conservative(parent group of modern Albanian) and some more open to outside interaction and in more intense contact with the Latins. There is no reason to see Vlachs as Latin speaking plain dwellers who took to the mountains, it does not make any sense, for a Roman citizens to go rogue and live in a primitive lifestyle. A new society and organization structure from scratch, is not feasible. The starting point makes more sense with a parent group of pastoral Albanoid speakers who were in intense contact with the urban population and became fully Latinzed when elements of the urban Latin speakers took shelter among them and merged with them. They were likely on friendly terms with the Latin speakers even before the Barbarian crisis.
 
A quick recap of what has been proposed and is in line with genetic and linguistic evidence that has been presented.

Proto-Albanoid descents from the culture block of EV-13 (supplemented with R1b fellow travelers).
Before Illyrians invade in 1200 BC, most of Albania and Kosovo belonged to a similar cultural and genetic group, which was further related to what is called the Daco-Thracian zone, but was an earlier off shoot.
When Illyrians invade they push these people to Italy(Messapians) and even chase them there as Daunians settle north of Messapians. Messapians are clearly related to the Dardani, Dauni are related to Illyrians.
A remnant of the old pre-Illyrian population might have survived in Albania such as the Taulanti among the Illyrians. This is yet to be confirmed and a speculation at this point.

These Messapians and Dardanians can be seen as ancient cousin to the Albanians. Ancient DNA sample would help clear this up.

Proto-Albanian originates further east, either from eastern Dardani or an adjacent Daco-Mysian population, a little redundant since Dardani themselves might been Daco-Mysian. I would not rule out the Bessi, simply because they had clear pastoral culture(shows up in archeological record) on the precise location where proto-Albanians are speculated to have emerged (Nish-Shtip). The Bessi pastoral culture dates back to late Roman period, right before the Barbarian intrusion and collapse. The timing and location is too suspect to ignore.

EV-13 and R1b are the only two haplogroups among Albanians that are consistently present among Albanian speakers no matter the region. J2b is restricted to northern Albanians, with a very faint presence in the south, and almost absent among Arvanites and Arberesh.

Albanians have the highest Illyrian legacy in the Balkans, though this legacy is restricted to the Ghegs. It can be estimated Ghegs are something like 30% Illyrian, assuming J2b made up 70-80% of Illyrian lineages. Despite this legacy, Albanians are not Illyrians, because the core culture, language and genes decent from a different Paleo-Balkan population.
 
Wikipedia? :LOL::LOL::LOL: Those are Illyrians attested by both archeology and genetics. You are comparing a Wikipedia article with academic papers :LOL::LOL::LOL:
Talk to yourself or smth I don't have time for you "ShpataEMadhe/TaktikatEMalit" and change your Bio, making sock puppet accounts claiming to be a different persona is weird af. You are a South Albanian Slavic descended I2a1b-Y3120. You hate Slavs that is the reason for all your blabbering.

Pelasgia, Albania, Albanistanioi everrrione is Albania bla bla bla bla that is what you write all the time.

All this guy is saying is just Hammond 1982, p. 261: "'Illyris', a geographical term which the Greeks applied to a territory neighbouring of their own, covers more or less the area of northern and central Albania down to the mouth of the Aous."

And from this area we don’t have ancient samples yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum
 
A quick recap of what has been proposed and is in line with genetic and linguistic evidence that has been presented.

Proto-Albanoid descents from the culture block of EV-13 (supplemented with R1b fellow travelers).
Before Illyrians invade in 1200 BC, most of Albania and Kosovo belonged to a similar cultural and genetic group, which was further related to what is called the Daco-Thracian zone, but was an earlier off shoot.
When Illyrians invade they push these people to Italy(Messapians) and even chase them there as Daunians settle north of Messapians. Messapians are clearly related to the Dardani, Dauni are related to Illyrians.
A remnant of the old pre-Illyrian population might have survived in Albania such as the Taulanti among the Illyrians. This is yet to be confirmed and a speculation at this point.

These Messapians and Dardanians can be seen as ancient cousin to the Albanians. Ancient DNA sample would help clear this up.

Proto-Albanian originates further east, either from eastern Dardani or an adjacent Daco-Mysian population, a little redundant since Dardani themselves might been Daco-Mysian. I would not rule out the Bessi, simply because they had clear pastoral culture(shows up in archeological record) on the precise location where proto-Albanians are speculated to have emerged (Nish-Shtip). The Bessi pastoral culture dates back to late Roman period, right before the Barbarian intrusion and collapse. The timing and location is too suspect to ignore.

EV-13 and R1b are the only two haplogroups among Albanians that are consistently present among Albanian speakers no matter the region. J2b is restricted to northern Albanians, with a very faint presence in the south, and almost absent among Arvanites and Arberesh.

Albanians have the highest Illyrian legacy in the Balkans, though this legacy is restricted to the Ghegs. It can be estimated Ghegs are something like 30% Illyrian, assuming J2b made up 70-80% of Illyrian lineages. Despite this legacy, Albanians are not Illyrians, because the core culture, language and genes decent from a different Paleo-Balkan population.

Interesting intake/hypothesis, let's see how good it ages.
 
EV-13 and R1b are the only two haplogroups among Albanians that are consistently present among Albanian speakers no matter the region. J2b is restricted to northern Albanians, with a very faint presence in the south, and almost absent among Arvanites and Arberesh.

You seem to be drawing conclusions from frequencies, but core presence isn't determined by frequencies which themselves are subject to founder effects. J-L283 has core high diversity among all Albanians, don't mistake diversity with frequency. Diversity determines the historical links of a haplogroup to the movement of a people.

J-L283 among northern and southern Albanians is not that different in reality and it's certain that Arbereshe and Arvanites have J-L283. J-L283 in some regions of northern Albania is increased because of founder effects. In Malesia, there's a very high J-L283 frequency because of Hoti and Shkreli. If other fis of other haplogroups increased instead of them, another haplogroup would have a high frequency. Also, you seem to be mistaking populations with haplogroups. Illyrians weren't a haplogroup, that's impossible. They were a people who carried several haplogroups (paternal and maternal) and these unions created a distinct cluster of autosomal profiles. That's what "Illyrians" are genetically.





J-Y21045-03.2021.png



J-Y23094.png


J-Y23094-02.2022.png


When Illyrians invade they push these people to Italy(Messapians) and even chase them there as Daunians settle north of Messapians. Messapians are clearly related to the Dardani, Dauni are related to Illyrians.

This extreme speculation is totally opposite to history. The Messapians and Daunians were both Illyrians and they maintained links with Illyria long after their migration. They spoke the same language and had the same culture. They weren't different people and they weren't "pushed" to Italy (how did you even get to this conclusion??). They migrated there with other Illyrians. They weren't separate people and nobody considers them separate people. If they carried both J-L283 and E-V13, then what it means is that Illyrians were both E-V13 and J-L283. Don't try to separate them artificially in order to reach such "conclusions" which don't correspond to reality.

In a recent study about Gauls, it was shown that they carried at least 4-5 core haplogroups, but Illyrians for some bizarre and unexplained reason, aren't allowed to carry more than one haplogroup.
 
It's so funny that you guys think J2b2 was less conservative than E-V13 and R1b. E-V13 and R1b are all over the Balkans, J2b2 pretty much confined to Albania only. The Albanian lines that Montenegrins and Sanxhak Bosnians belong to, are E-V13 and R1b, very little J2b2. Who seems more conservative to you? Lol.

J2b2 is highest in the most conservative Albanian tribes, E-V13 is found all over south-east europe, and I'm supposed to believe it's the Proto-Albanian haplogroup, but J2b2 isn't? Hilarious mental gymnastics

The first people to raise the Albanian flag after 450 years, were J2b2, but according to modern E-V13 copers, they weren't Albanian, but Latin speaking remnants lol

"J2b2 is only restricted to Ghegs" Mister know-it-all, go read the articles on J2b2 on rrenjet and gjenetika and look at the data on J2b2. Laberia has the highest J2b2 in Tosks and they have legend of descending from the Labeatae Illyrian tribe that used to live near Lake Shkoder before migrating south. According to your flawed logic, the Labs are less Proto-Albanian than other Tosks lol. And the Malesores are less Proto-Albanian than other Ghegs, it's laughable. We even have very old J2b2 lines popping up in Toskeria, and even J2b2 Arbereshe. You guys have some homework to do, and some intense self-reflection to undo the mental programming of Johane Derite's and Hawk's wet dreams of Albanians being E-V13 Brygian Trojans, and having nothing to do with Illyrians

To call Malsia, Kukes, and Diber, less Proto-Albanian than the rest of Ghegs, is the most absurd thing I've ever heard, I guess people gotta cope somehow with sharing a widespread haplogroup with other nations. So much for the conservative Proto-Albanian E-V13, it's found at significant amounts in Greeks, Italians, Bulgarians, Montenegrins, Serbs, and Romanians. While J2b2 is at it's highest frequencies only in mountainous Albanian areas. How much more conservative can you get? Why do you think people live at high altitudes, for fun, or to conserve their people and culture? Were we not being conservative enough when most J2b2 refused to convert to Islam and went up the mountains to keep their faith and better defend themselves? Proto-Albanians have roots in Christianity, the Catholic regions of Albania have high J2b2, these were the most conservative bunch of all Albanians

If we were "more Latin" than other Albanians, why is the barbarian pagan Illyrian culture the most preserved in the mountains? Why doesn't the North West Gheg dialect have more Latin words and Latin cultural influences than other Gheg dialects? How is it that the Malesore preserved the Neolithic-Illyrian Xhubleta if they were Latins? Nothing checks out. Your theories are going to age terribly. Only in your dreams, the Malesore are less Proto-Albanian. We have the lowest foreign DNA (I2, I1, R1a) of all Albanian regions, and the only region where J2b2 actually exceeds E-V13 by a few percent, at 40%. Even Laberia, the most conservative Tosks, who preserved the most culture and have the richest form of Iso-Polyphonic singing, have the most J2b2 of all Tosks. Even Iso-Polyphony is a shared culture with Gheg highlanders.

A related form of polyphonic singing is found in northern Albania, in the area of Peshkopi; Polog, Tetovo, Kičevo and Gostivar in North Macedonia; and Malësia in northern Albania and southern Montenegro.[2]

Proto-Albanian developed in the north, in a mountainous region away from the coasts, J2b2 is highest in the mountains, in the North and South, among the Malesore & Labs who preserved the most archaic Gheg and Tosk culture

On what planet are Albanian Highlanders less Proto-Albanian or less conservative than the rest of Albanians?
 
Founder effect. If you believe such nonsense, than why are you even here? If everything is random and makes no sense what are you even trying to argue? Balkans Slavs have I2a-Dinaric by mere chance? Nothing to do with them being Slavs? You sure Albanians are not originally haplogroup G2 and by chance, through founder effect EV-13 took over?
 
"J2b2 is only restricted to Ghegs" Mister know-it-all, go read the articles on J2b2 on rrenjet and gjenetika and look at the data on J2b2. Laberia has the highest J2b2 in Tosks and they have legend of descending from the Labeatae Illyrian tribe that used to live near Lake Shkoder before migrating south. According to your flawed logic, the Labs are less Proto-Albanian than other Tosks lol

A lot of nonsense but I'll keep it simple, Labs have no tradition from Labeate, this is modern day word games, the clownery that comes out Albania. Laberia comes from Arberia, it is well known and understood. It is also known that Labs have impulses from Ghegs, some Ghegs migrated during the Ottoman takeover, possibly as refugees. There are traditions that certain villages or families in certain neighborhoods have origins from northern Albania. I am not shocked genetics reveal this link. This stuff as been talked about for two decades now, I remember reading about it 20 years ago.

Lab has been found to exhibit certain "Gheg" grammatical characteristics (in addition to limited phonological characteristics such as retention of nasalization in selected Lab subdialects). Features that are typical of Gheg but not Tosk dialects but which are nevertheless found in Lab include the presence of the compound perfect and the pluperfect.

It is believed that Lab Albanian split from its sibling dialects of Cham, Arvanitika and Arbereshe some time in the Middle Ages.[citation needed] Since then, its features have evolved through a variety of influences: language contact with Greek and specifically the Himariote dialect[citation needed], isolation in mountainous regions[citation needed] and influence from Gheg dialects as Gheg speakers migrated to Lab areas in the Late Middle Ages and during the Ottoman era

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lab_Albanian_dialect
 
It's so funny that you guys think J2b2 was less conservative than E-V13 and R1b. E-V13 and R1b are all over the Balkans, J2b2 pretty much confined to Albania only. The Albanian lines that Montenegrins and Sanxhak Bosnians belong to, are E-V13 and R1b, very little J2b2. Who seems more conservative to you? Lol.

J2b2 is highest in the most conservative Albanian tribes, E-V13 is found all over south-east europe, and I'm supposed to believe it's the Proto-Albanian haplogroup, but J2b2 isn't? Hilarious mental gymnastics

The first people to raise the Albanian flag after 450 years, were J2b2, but according to modern E-V13 copers, they weren't Albanian, but Latin speaking remnants lol

"J2b2 is only restricted to Ghegs" Mister know-it-all, go read the articles on J2b2 on rrenjet and gjenetika and look at the data on J2b2. Laberia has the highest J2b2 in Tosks and they have legend of descending from the Labeatae Illyrian tribe that used to live near Lake Shkoder before migrating south. According to your flawed logic, the Labs are less Proto-Albanian than other Tosks lol. And the Malesores are less Proto-Albanian than other Ghegs, it's laughable. We even have very old J2b2 lines popping up in Toskeria, and even J2b2 Arbereshe. You guys have some homework to do, and some intense self-reflection to undo the mental programming of Johane Derite's and Hawk's wet dreams of Albanians being E-V13 Brygian Trojans, and having nothing to do with Illyrians

To call Malsia, Kukes, and Diber, less Proto-Albanian than the rest of Ghegs, is the most absurd thing I've ever heard, I guess people gotta cope somehow with sharing a widespread haplogroup with other nations. So much for the conservative Proto-Albanian E-V13, it's found at significant amounts in Greeks, Italians, Bulgarians, Montenegrins, Serbs, and Romanians. While J2b2 is at it's highest frequencies only in mountainous Albanian areas. How much more conservative can you get? Why do you think people live at high altitudes, for fun, or to conserve their people and culture? Were we not being conservative enough when most J2b2 refused to convert to Islam and went up the mountains to keep their faith and better defend themselves? Proto-Albanians have roots in Christianity, the Catholic regions of Albania have high J2b2, these were the most conservative bunch of all Albanians

If we were "more Latin" than other Albanians, why is the barbarian pagan Illyrian culture the most preserved in the mountains? Why doesn't the North West Gheg dialect have more Latin words and Latin cultural influences than other Gheg dialects? How is it that the Malesore preserved the Neolithic-Illyrian Xhubleta if they were Latins? Nothing checks out. Your theories are going to age terribly. Only in your dreams, the Malesore are less Proto-Albanian. We have the lowest foreign DNA (I2, I1, R1a) of all Albanian regions, and the only region where J2b2 actually exceeds E-V13 by a few percent, at 40%. Even Laberia, the most conservative Tosks, who preserved the most culture and have the richest form of Iso-Polyphonic singing, have the most J2b2 of all Tosks. Even Iso-Polyphony is a shared culture with Gheg highlanders.



Proto-Albanian developed in the north, in a mountainous region away from the coasts, J2b2 is highest in the mountains, in the North and South, among the Malesore & Labs who preserved the most archaic Gheg and Tosk culture

On what planet are Albanian Highlanders less Proto-Albanian or less conservative than the rest of Albanians?

We shouldn't go on the opposite end. Outside Albanians if you check E-V13 percentages in Montenegro, Serbia etc. , you will see multiple founder effects from northern Albanian tribes. If these tribes who moved to the north were J-L283, then you would see Montenegro or Herzegovina and Serbia above 10%> J-L283. It's really random. There's nothing "more" Albanian about E-V13 vs J-L283 Malësors. They're the same indigenous people of the highlands and like most Albanians they have the highest number of shared ancestors between them compared to other European populations. Debates on eupedia would seem so bizarre to all of them.
 
The Tunisian samples are also J-L283

R11751, Kerkouane, Tunisia, Iron Age and R11753, Kerkouane, Tunisia Iron Age, are both J2b-L283>>Z597>Y15058>Z38240+



they will be added to map below shortly

 

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