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Thread: Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

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    Quote Originally Posted by enter_tain View Post
    I never said "Pre-Roman". I said at the time of the Illyrians, which lived there clearly until 500 AD. You said "Pre-Roman" since you realized your boyfriend Matzinger made another huge blunder.

    Matzinger made no blunder, he said this in his quote clear as day:

    "Prej njohjes se vone te ketij emri nga shqiptaret rrjedh, se qyteti port i Durresit mund te kete perbere nje pike (qendrore) orientimi per boten e protoshqiptareve vetem dikur nga shekulli 5 e.s."

    Roughly round the 400s ad is when he says this placename entered the proto-Albanian vocabulary, i.e. Post Roman
    "As we have already stressed, the mass evacuation of the Albanians from their triangle is the only effective course we can take. In order to relocate a whole people, the first prerequisite is the creation of a suitable psychosis. This can be done in various ways." - Vaso Cubrilovic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    Matzinger made no blunder, he said this in his quote clear as day:
    "Prej njohjes se vone te ketij emri nga shqiptaret rrjedh, se qyteti port i Durresit mund te kete perbere nje pike (qendrore) orientimi per boten e protoshqiptareve vetem dikur nga shekulli 5 e.s."
    Roughly round the 400s ad is when he says this placename entered the proto-Albanian vocabulary, i.e. Post Roman
    What "Post-Roman"? They got the name from the Romans. You're so ******* dumb. Holy shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    SANU graph showed the appearance of E-V13 in Iron Age. Danubian Lime paper explicitely states the E-V13 natives come from cremating cultures something which you ignore. The 0-500 column increase is due to Christianity spread and the prevail of inhumation. No explicit relation to complete Roman Empire soldier expansion as you try to imply
    Yes, they said "EV13 natives". Keep making up fantasies.

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    When did Dardania/Moesia/Dacia enter the proto-Albanian vocabulary?

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    Quote Originally Posted by enter_tain View Post
    What "Post-Roman"? They got the name from the Romans. You're so ******* dumb. Holy shit.
    The K in dyrrakio can not become S in Albanian. Albanian. Durrës

    If Illyrians were of Durrës before the Romans, they would have kept their own pronounciation, and today it would be called Durrëq.

    For exampe, Albanians retained their own pronounciation of Shkodër since the time they leaent Skodra (before slavs) and didn't take the adjacent slavic Skadar that came later.


    This is why Matzinger says there is older Albanian phonology in North compared to South Albanian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dushman View Post
    When did Dardania/Moesia/Dacia enter the proto-Albanian vocabulary?
    There is no surving linear albanophone population in 2022 in those regions.

    If some proto-Albanians did remain in those regions after the migration event into Albania in late antiquity, those proto-Albanian peoples either were absorbed by the ensuing slavs, or decimated with time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    The K in dyrrakio can not become S in Albanian. Albanian. Durrës
    If Illyrians were of Durrës before the Romans, they would have kept their own pronounciation, and today it would be called Durrëq.
    For exampe, Albanians retained their own pronounciation of Shkodër since the time they leaent Skodra (before slavs) and didn't take the adjacent slavic Skadar that came later.
    This is why Matzinger says there is older Albanian phonology in North compared to South Albanian.
    Leje mos u mer me ket bythmindil tvogel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    There is no surving linear albanophone population in 2022 in those regions.
    If some proto-Albanians did remain in those regions after the migration event into Albania in late antiquity, those proto-Albanian peoples either were absorbed by the ensuing slavs, or decimated with time.
    So no memory of Dardania/Paeonia/Moesia/Dacia, no memory of Romans and Roman Empire, no memory of Illyrians/Epirots/Macedonians, and that's not a problem.

    But it's a problem when there's no memory of Dyrrachium and Scodra.

    But didn't Slavs learn of Shkupi and Nish from the Albanians? Which means the Proto-Albanians were still there in the 6th-7th century and not in Albania. Therefore, Matzinger's estimate of Albanians moving to modern Albania in 300-900 AD is more like 700-900 AD.

    Albanians do have a memory of Papa Zhuli in Epirus from the 11th century (Kanuni i Laberise) who had a treaty with Robert Guiscard's son Bohamund in 1081 AD but they have no memory of Dardania from 700-900 AD?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    The K in dyrrakio can not become S in Albanian. Albanian. Durrës
    If Illyrians were of Durrës before the Romans, they would have kept their own pronounciation, and today it would be called Durrëq.
    For exampe, Albanians retained their own pronounciation of Shkodër since the time they leaent Skodra (before slavs) and didn't take the adjacent slavic Skadar that came later.
    This is why Matzinger says there is older Albanian phonology in North compared to South Albanian.
    You must be the lowest IQ member on this forum, and I'm not exaggerating. How do you get by in real life?

    What part of Durres was a colony founded in Illyria don't you understand? Albanians never owned Durres, they simply lived there. Hence "an Illyrian family from Durres".

    Dyrrakhion would never become "Durreq", because by the time of the Roman Empire it was already called Dyrratio. When it was called "Dyrratio", Illyrians were still living there.

    Your orangutan IQ can't let you grasp simple concepts though. You talk about Shkodra, when Shkodra was never founded as a ******* colony like Durres/Apollonia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dushman View Post
    So no memory of Dardania/Paeonia/Moesia/Dacia, no memory of Romans and Roman Empire, no memory of Illyrians/Epirots/Macedonians, and that's not a problem.

    But it's a problem when there's no memory of Dyrrachium and Scodra.

    But didn't Slavs learn of Shkupi and Nish from the Albanians? Which means the Proto-Albanians were still there in the 6th-7th century and not in Albania. Therefore, Matzinger's estimate of Albanians moving to modern Albania in 300-900 AD is more like 700-900 AD.

    Albanians do have a memory of Papa Zhuli in Epirus from the 11th century (Kanuni i Laberise) who had a treaty with Robert Guiscard's son Bohamund in 1081 AD but they have no memory of Dardania from 700-900 AD?
    Memory? What is being discussed are phonetic changes. The change from Naissus to Nish and Astibos to Shtip requires proto-Albanian mediation. The change of Durrakion into Dyrratio is not a proto-Albanian change.

    If paleorevenge is right with some of his toponyms that he found in dacia mediterranea then it shows that there indeed was a proto-Albanian population that partly remained behind and transmitted toponyms into the early slavs.

    Your dating has severe logical issues.

    Proto-Albanians that moved into north Albania may have been pushed earlier, by goths, or earlier reasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by enter_tain View Post
    You must be the lowest IQ member on this forum, and I'm not exaggerating. How do you get by in real life?

    What part of Durres was a colony founded in Illyria don't you understand? Albanians never owned Durres, they simply lived there. Hence "an Illyrian family from Durres".

    Dyrrakhion would never become "Durreq", because by the time of the Roman Empire it was already called Dyrratio. When it was called "Dyrratio", Illyrians were still living there.

    Your orangutan IQ can't let you grasp simple concepts though. You talk about Shkodra, when Shkodra was never founded as a ******* colony like Durres/Apollonia.
    It doesn't matter if it is a colony or not, the internal rules of each language are different and produce different accents. The illyrians still living there would have kept calling it Durrakio if they were still living there and not romanised.

    Just like proto-Albanians did not adopt Scutari, but kept Skodra.

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    Quote Originally Posted by enter_tain View Post
    You must be the lowest IQ member on this forum, and I'm not exaggerating. How do you get by in real life?

    What part of Durres was a colony founded in Illyria don't you understand? Albanians never owned Durres, they simply lived there. Hence "an Illyrian family from Durres".

    Dyrrakhion would never become "Durreq", because by the time of the Roman Empire it was already called Dyrratio. When it was called "Dyrratio", Illyrians were still living there.

    Your orangutan IQ can't let you grasp simple concepts though. You talk about Shkodra, when Shkodra was never founded as a ******* colony like Durres/Apollonia.
    Durrës është direkt nga Dyrrachium. Në Gegërisht ka një fenomen gjuhësor që është i njohur, shkurtimi i emrave. Përshembull nuk thuhet babë por bab. E njëjta gjë ka ndodhur edhe me Dyrrachium i cili ka shumë mundësi që të jetë thirur nga shqiptarët e atyre shekujve Dyrrak. Më vonë ë ka marrë shtesën s. Duhet të kemi parasysh se Durrësi gjatë më shumë se 2500 vite histori ka qenë nën 32 sundime të ndryshme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pashai Janinës View Post
    Durrës është direkt nga Dyrrachium. Në Gegërisht ka një fenomen gjuhësor që është i njohur, shkurtimi i emrave. Përshembull nuk thuhet babë por bab. E njëjta gjë ka ndodhur edhe me Dyrrachium i cili ka shumë mundësi që të jetë thirur nga shqiptarët e atyre shekujve Dyrrak. Më vonë ë ka marrë shtesën s. Duhet të kemi parasysh se Durrësi gjatë më shumë se 2500 vite histori ka qenë nën 32 sundime të ndryshme.
    Thelbi i problemit ska tbeje me shkurtimin e emnave po me shnderrimin e bashketingllores /k/ ne /s/, gja qe sndodhe me gjuhen shqipe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    It doesn't matter if it is a colony or not, the internal rules of each language are different and produce different accents. The illyrians still living there would have kept calling it Durrakio if they were still living there and not romanised.
    Just like proto-Albanians did not adopt Scutari, but kept Skodra.
    Retard. Shkodra is an Illyrian city. Durres is not. Durres is a Graeco-Roman colonial city in Illyria which Illyrians lived.

    Illyrians call it by whoever the colonial power was. In Greek times it was Dyrrahion. In Roman times it was Dyrrahium then -> Dyrratio.

    Durres/Durrazio share the exact same origin, the name during Roman Illyria.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pashai Janinës View Post
    Durrës është direkt nga Dyrrachium.


    Durres vjen nga Dyratio. Demiraj e shpjegoj kete.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    The change of Durrakion into Dyrratio is not a proto-Albanian change.
    No one called that town "Durrakion" since the Mid Iron Age you clown. The Roman Republic took Illyria since 250 BC.

    Your boyfriend Matzinger forgets the Roman Empire existed, and wants continuity between Greek names in the Iron Age to modern day Albanian, while forgetting the Romans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by enter_tain View Post
    No one called that town "Durrakion" since the Mid Iron Age you clown. The Roman Republic took Illyria since 250 BC.

    Your boyfriend Matzinger forgets the Roman Empire existed, and wants continuity between Greek names in the Iron Age to modern day Albanian, while forgetting the Romans.
    The romans made the local illyrians forget the name of the city in which they lived?

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    Quote Originally Posted by enter_tain View Post
    Retard. Shkodra is an Illyrian city. Durres is not. Durres is a Graeco-Roman colonial city in Illyria which Illyrians lived.
    Illyrians call it by whoever the colonial power was. In Greek times it was Dyrrahion. In Roman times it was Dyrrahium then -> Dyrratio.
    Durres/Durrazio share the exact same origin, the name during Roman Illyria.

    Durres vjen nga Dyratio. Demiraj e shpjegoj kete.
    I stated 3 years ago.......Durres and Appolonia ...where corinthian Greek cities created circa 700BC a remained Greek until the Romans took them over

    these 2 cities plus Butrint where never ever Illyrian owned ...................though the Liburnians ( illyrians ) traded with the Greeks in Durres until about 400BC
    Fathers mtdna ...... T2b17
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoRevenge View Post
    The links of our past are in Dacia Meditarranea. Just west of the Bulgarian capital there is a valley called Burel, seems to be related to the Albanian word berryl(elbow), the valley has a 90 degree angle turn, thus shaped like an elbow. At the heart of medieval Albania, in the Mat valley is the village/town of Burrel.
    There many toponyms in this area of Bulgaria and on the Serbian side of the border that seem to stem from Albanian, and borrowed by the Slavs as shown by Slavic pronouncation. This is my finding by simply scanning the areas west of Sofia: Kambelevtsi (from Alb. kumbulla, plum), two villages named Dreatin (related to Albanian Drite(light), there are settlements in Albania named Drite),Bukorovtsi (from Albanian bukur), Arzan (same as Albanian villages named arrez, from the word arre (farm land)), Buzovitsa from Albanain buze(many such toponym derivates in Albania), Lyalintsi from Albanian lala(this toponym existed even in Peloponnese where Albanians settled near Patras), on the Serbian-Bulgarian border there is the Ruy mountain which can be related to the Albanian word for safety/protection ruj. Village of Giginitsi (gheg). Village of Oresha (similar to Orosh in Mirdite). Village of Bilintsi, could derive from blini. Village of Gintsi (probably from Gjin, which would equate to Ivan).

    On the Serbian side of the border is the village Grapa (Gropa in Albania from the word for hole/depression in the land), village of Postalica from Albanian posht(lower), there are also two settlement with similar name Petrilje and Petrlas which reminds me of the Albanian fort and settlement of Petrela near Tirana where the first Albanian principality appears. Village of Dumbija(from the word tooth dhemb? like dhembel mountain), village of Lalinice again from lala just has a Serbian pronounciation. The village of Gaginice (gheg). Village of Resen (same as Reshen in Mirdita).

    I am sure there can be more toponyms. But I more interested to look into any census data from the Middle Ages from these villages and nearby area. A proto-Albanian people clearly stayed behind and got assimilated over time but the Albanian heritage and names would have lingered for some time and would be easy to detect if we can get our hands such documents. I don't know if the Bulgarian empire(s) took any population census, if there isn't any, we should try to look into Byzantine records of the area and early Ottoman, because the Ottomans took over in the late 1300s and took defters right away.

    I mapped your suggestions, I also added some I saw along the way like "Zabel".

    We need some professional linguists that are also specialists of these old slavic dialects in these regions and proto-Albanian to run a systematic sweep of all toponyms and microtoponyms, I think it could be very fruitful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    I mapped your suggestions, I also added some I saw along the way like "Zabel".

    We need some professional linguists that are also specialists of these old slavic dialects in these regions and proto-Albanian to run a systematic sweep of all toponyms and microtoponyms, I think it could be very fruitful.
    Are you sure these are not toponyms left by Albanians from Nish/Toplic/Vranje/Pirot during Middle Ages?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    Are you sure these are not toponyms left by Albanians from Nish/Toplic/Vranje/Pirot during Middle Ages?
    I don't know, not claiming these are definitively even correct. Some like Zabel and Bukur- seem more solid that they are albanian. Others may not even be albanian but just false friends.

    As for then dating when the ones that are albanian are from, that requires a real systematic study beyond my scope.

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    Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    I mapped your suggestions, I also added some I saw along the way like "Zabel".

    We need some professional linguists that are also specialists of these old slavic dialects in these regions and proto-Albanian to run a systematic sweep of all toponyms and microtoponyms, I think it could be very fruitful.
    That is the same place that is hypothesized as place of origin for Romanians.! Can Albanian and Romanians came form the same place?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    Are you sure these are not toponyms left by Albanians from Nish/Toplic/Vranje/Pirot during Middle Ages?
    I dont know how much those groups would have been relevant in the bulgarian regions though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    I dont know how much those groups would have been relevant in the bulgarian regions though.
    The Seferis, Idriz Seferi who are Berish came from Pirot. His ancestor was a famous Albanian warrior Uk Burimi who was known for getting in trouble with Bulgarians.



    That Bukurovc sounds too close to the village from Presheve Bukuroci. I am not sure but Albanians from Bukuroc-Presheve might be migrants from those areas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    The Seferis, Idriz Seferi who are Berish came from Pirot. His ancestor was a famous Albanian warrior Uk Burimi who was known for getting in trouble with Bulgarians.

    That Bukurovc sounds too close to the village from Presheve Bukuroci. I am not sure but Albanians from Bukuroc-Presheve might be migrants from those areas.
    You think there was a sizeable enough Albanian population in southwest bulgaria in the middle ages bordering pirot and such that could have left these toponyms?

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    Quote Originally Posted by blevins13 View Post
    That is the same place that is hypothesized as place of origin for Romanians.! Can Albanian and Romanians came form the same place?


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    The proto-Albanian and proto-romanian linguistic relationship requires that they were living next to each other in late antiqutiy

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