Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[Excine]

Lol, he's also straight away trying to do some damage control:

"The fact that they have quite different profiles to each other as well strongly suggests that by the EIA, different E-V13 clades were part of very different populations and profiles."

What damage control? Derite is so obsessed to find E-V13 among ancient Greeks so he can claim origins from them that he doesn't even read the papers now:


Sicily_Himera_480BCE_2 consists of two outlying individuals (I10946/W1771 and I10950/W814) that fall on the PCA intermediate between the main cluster and central European individuals, a differentiation also indicated by the relatively higher proportion of the WHG genetic cluster in ADMIXTURE. Testing a wide range of possible BA and IA sources with qpAdm, valid models of ancestry consist of mixtures of one source related to central or eastern Mediterranean groups (Sicilian, Aegean, or Balkan) and one source related to central or western European groups (France, Spain, Czechia, or Hungary). A genetic origin in the Balkans is suggested by their Y chromosomes, belonging to the E-V13 lineage, which has its highest modern-day frequency in that region (67). This group comprises two individuals archaeologically identified as soldiers of the 480 BCE battle that, compared to Himera Group 1, cluster on PCA shifted towards Central Europeans populations (Figs. 2A and S11), and have a higher proportion of the component maximized in WHG in ADMIXTURE (Fig. 2. This pair of individuals (I10946/W1771 and I10950/W0814) forms a clade in the qpWave model with a p-value of 0.869 to the exclusion of any other pairwise models formed with other 480 BCE soldiers (Fig. S13).

I have bad news for you: these aren't ancient Greeks/Dorians, but I'll say more when G25 is available.

 

[Hawk]

What damage control? Derite is so obsessed to find E-V13 among ancient Greeks so he can claim origins from them that he doesn't even read the papers now:


Sicily_Himera_480BCE_2 consists of two outlying individuals (I10946/W1771 and I10950/W814) that fall on the PCA intermediate between the main cluster and central European individuals, a differentiation also indicated by the relatively higher proportion of the WHG genetic cluster in ADMIXTURE. Testing a wide range of possible BA and IA sources with qpAdm, valid models of ancestry consist of mixtures of one source related to central or eastern Mediterranean groups (Sicilian, Aegean, or Balkan) and one source related to central or western European groups (France, Spain, Czechia, or Hungary). A genetic origin in the Balkans is suggested by their Y chromosomes, belonging to the E-V13 lineage, which has its highest modern-day frequency in that region (67). This group comprises two individuals archaeologically identified as soldiers of the 480 BCE battle that, compared to Himera Group 1, cluster on PCA shifted towards Central Europeans populations (Figs. 2A and S11), and have a higher proportion of the component maximized in WHG in ADMIXTURE (Fig. 2. This pair of individuals (I10946/W1771 and I10950/W0814) forms a clade in the qpWave model with a p-value of 0.869 to the exclusion of any other pairwise models formed with other 480 BCE soldiers (Fig. S13).

I have bad news for you: these aren't ancient Greeks/Dorians, but I'll say more when G25 is available.

There is no reason to assume these were Thracian or North Alpine or whatever, Himera was founded partially by Chalcidic Greeks, that's right near Thracians and Psenicevo IA E-V13. Why do we need to point fingers elsewhere.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

It's hard to map Albanians using all ancient sources at the same time. However, Southeast MKD is the top pick, so is Moesian and Thracian. Brumis averages drop Thracian and pick Cinamak as top 3rd pick. Here are better mapping using unmixed populations. Thracian, MKS south east, and Moesian are the top 3 with the public available Albanian average. MKD south East, Moesian than Cinamak, are the top three with Brumis special average. Should note, that the Moesian sample is poor, it is made of only two samples, Nish and Zadar Poliklinika, I could include Serbia_Svilos_Krusevlje:R6701 and Serbia_Sirmium:R6730, but one has a slight Germanic admixture and another has slight MENA admixture (10% or under, but it will effect the fitting favorably).

PS, what I used as source.

Changing source
Serbia_Roman:Moesian,0.12316,0.1585535,0.0161995,-0.036883,0.0292795,-0.0138115,-0.0005075,0.001181,0.009147,0.0385595,0.0049785,0.0079705,-0.0137465,-0.0062855,-0.016461,-0.003302,0.014459,0.002647,0.0060465,-0.004639,-0.0080515,-0.001072,-0.0020835,0.000588,-0.003754
ALB_Çinamak_Anc:Average,0.12475,0.1537512,0.0302452,-0.0142766,0.0300362,-0.0074186,0.003008,0.0005078,-0.001636,0.0248934,0.0011366,0.0071936,-0.0192368,-0.0072664,-0.0093376,-0.0049058,0.0066756,0.0026096,0.0039722,-0.0091042,-0.007986,0.0025474,-0.0043382,0.0057118,-0.0064664
BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:Average,0.1217906,0.1598444,0.0085982,-0.05168,0.0336678,-0.025881,0.001927,-0.0036462,0.01129,0.0471628,0.0024358,0.0098014,-0.0169474,0.0009636,-0.0248912,-0.0074514,0.0131166,0.0041046,0.0115894,-0.0076036,-0.0087346,0.000445,-0.0031798,0.0012288,-0.0085024
MKD_Southeast_Valandovo_Anc:Average,0.124636,0.1543605,0.0211185,-0.021964,0.02939,-0.0131075,-0.0022325,-0.0055385,0.0057265,0.032438,-0.0026795,0.008767,-0.014717,-0.004335,-0.013504,-0.0050385,0.0084745,0.0059545,0.007919,-0.006253,-0.009608,0.00068,-0.0021565,0.0071095,-0.001976
HRV_IA:Average,0.122441142857143,0.150153142857143,0.0394361428571429,0.00369142857142857,0.0388202857142857,-0.00119514285714286,0.00147714285714286,0.000461428571428571,0.0141998571428571,0.0264242857142857,-0.00278385714285714,0.00745057142857143,-0.0107885714285714,-0.00587842857142857,-0.00354814285714286,0.000947142857142857,0.00286842857142857,0.00224414285714286,0.00272942857142857,0.00101828571428571,-0.00228171428571429,0.00286185714285714,-0.00422557142857143,-0.00227214285714286,-0.00200142857142857



Constant source
Baltic_EST_BA,0.1321485,0.1213556,0.0992205,0.111662,0.051671,0.040746,0.0158398,0.0204684,-0.0029042,-0.050607,0.0009094,-0.0182389,0.0359462,0.0400344,-0.0180239,0.0018297,0.0103654,-0.000684,-0.0013952,0.0046272,-0.0024957,-0.0062692,0.0106487,-0.017388,0.002359
Sargat_IA:Average,0.093477,-0.068548125,0.0658075,0.0608855,-0.049201625,-6.98750000000006E-05,0.003055125,0.004442,-0.01516025,-0.02890725,0.014899125,-0.00252875,0.008566625,-0.033236,0.002680375,0.001027625,-0.009664875,0.00121925,-0.001853875,-0.003329625,-0.009343,0.006244375,0.001802375,0.003057625,0.001167625
MNG_Early_Xiongnu:Average,0.0668927692307692,-0.207246076923077,0.0557848461538462,0.0257157692307692,-0.0602005384615385,-0.009375,0.00723107692307692,0.00658553846153846,-0.0122085384615385,-0.0164993846153846,-0.0166386153846154,-0.00288215384615385,-0.000903461538461539,-0.0122060769230769,0.0140104615384615,0.000917846153846154,-0.00948784615384615,0.00161784615384615,0.00147938461538462,0.00503115384615384,-0.0186401538461538,-0.00195938461538462,-0.00628553846153846,0.00203923076923077,0.00205415384615385
AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LC:ALX002,0.097888,0.137096,-0.06939,-0.072675,-0.023697,-0.013666,0.005875,-0.003692,-0.024338,-0.00164,0.011205,-0.013338,0.012636,0.00578,-0.020765,0.030893,0.024903,0.004181,-0.000251,-0.007754,0.004617,0.015086,-0.003944,-0.015544,-0.005508
ARM_Noratus_Anc:Average,0.0944735,0.137604,-0.05638,-0.0637925,-0.0253895,-0.019941,0.0038775,-0.005192,-0.0223955,-0.0041,0.00609,0.00517,-0.006764,-0.0052985,-0.0010855,0.00305,0.009453,-0.001964,0.005594,-0.0068785,0.003993,-0.00136,0.0019105,-0.0025905,0.003353

 

[Hawk]

I am referring to him, obviously.

He is misunderstanding that actually, he thinks the Balkans IA cluster is pred NE. He is confusing Balkan Neolithic that makes up the chunk of Balkans IA cluster with NE, referred to in that paper.

Hence why I am not a big fan of these autosomal models. Look at Paleo chasing his tale around lol

I only focus on Y chromosomes - exact science basically.

I was trying to play around with autosomal models but left it, it's like minecraft, you can create your own miniscule world and get carried away. They should be evaluated by multi-faceted contexts otherwise one can get lost on them. Still, i appreciate them. They can tell a story, but not too specific.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

I was trying to play around with autosomal models but left it, it's like minecraft, you can create your own miniscule world and get carried away. They should be evaluated by multi-faceted contexts otherwise one can get lost on them. Still, i appreciate them. They can tell a story, but not too specific.

It's brutal, I could not isolate east Germanic as one source because Slavs and Goths share POL_Chlopice_Vesele_Culture ancestry. But I have made plenty of good averages and identified many of the right coordinates, now we just wait for more data.

 

[Excine]

It's hard to map Albanians using all ancient sources at the same time. However, Southeast MKD is the top pick, so is Moesian and Thracian. Brumis averages drop Thracian and pick Cinamak as top 3rd pick. Here are better mapping using unmixed populations.

Your models are absolutely trash because you deliberately remove Cinamak-derived medieval sources just because you don't like the fact that the majority of pre-medieval Albanian lineages were found in Cinamak. This is the actual source for Albanians, not areas where no Albanian-related clades have been found. You can equally add GRC-Mycenaean and get similar results, but it makes no sense, so just stop it and deal with reality.

It's not "Bruzmi's averages" which don't use BGR sources when compared to ALB_Mdv ones, it's the official G25 dataset from Davidski. Stop lying about everything that you post.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

This is what happens when use the dishonest method of using a Illyrian(Croatia) MENA admixed average. The fit gets tighter(MKD South East still edges it), MENA and Slavic mixture evaporates. Half the Balkans becomes Illyrian too.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Your models are absolutely trash because you deliberately remove Cinamak-derived medieval sources just because you don't like the fact that the majority of pre-medieval Albanian lineages were found in Cinamak. This is the actual source for Albanians, not areas where no Albanian-related clades have been found. You can equally add GRC-Mycenaean and get similar results, but it makes no sense, so just stop it and deal with reality.

It's not "Bruzmi's averages" which don't use BGR sources when compared to ALB_Mdv ones, it's the official G25 dataset from Davidski. Stop lying about everything that you post.

Illiterate villager, learn some basic math. Your mdv sources are garbage, my models are still superior with ancient only sources.

Thracian, LOL

Moesian

Now Cinamak. Go cry now.

 

[ihype02]

Some of you have no issue saying the "bitter truth" that Peloponnesians are half Albano-Slavic medieval transplants but at the same time deny significant East Balkanic ancestry with E-V13 in Albanians. There was little to no E-V13 in both old Greeks and Illyrians. Hear me say 'Albanians are half Thracian' and weep.

 

[Excine]

Illiterate villager, learn some basic math. Your mdv sources are garbage, my models are still superior with ancient only sources.

LOL. This is the reality: when given the chance to pick between Alb_Mdv and Bgr_Mdv sources, Albanians pick Alb_Mdv and they have nothing to do with Bulgaria. Deal with it. J-L283, R-PF7363, R-CTS1450 and Albanian E-V13 didn't come from Bulgaria.

BGR_Kapitan_Andreevo in your model acts as a Roman era source because it has some East Med admixture already which Cinamak doesn't. That's what your "models" show and if you weren't so obsessed with denying reality, you would realize such a thing by replacing Kapitan Andreevo with Roman/early medieval sources. You'll get the same fit, which in any case doesn't matter because you're trying to deduce which model is better by overfitting them.

Repeating again until you actually understand it:
1)the Albanian language is unrelated to Thracian
2)~50% of Albanian pre-Slavic lineages have been found in Cinamak already and we'll find our E-V13 as well in Dardania
3)no Albanian lineages have been found in Thrace

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Split it further, instead of just Croat source for Romanized Illyrian put an additional more Southern variant, the Middle Age Albanian sample, that should normalize the things further for Albanians especially. Also, i want to see how BGR_IA component you put reacts when you put a Greek proxy as well, somewhat from Epirus, do we have any Middle Age sample from Greece, or perhaps an Iron Age sample should be fine anyway?

Hawk, here is the improved model with Alb mdvs individually, than averaged.

You will notice that only I3839 makes a viable model, the other too are off. Now watch what happens when I average the Alb "mdv'.

Notice that I3839 works better on it's own, the two individuals do not help it. Kenete is unrelated to Albanians, if that was the population in northern Albania in 800s, it got removed. I3834 is ancient, I am more than willing to have the higher ups prove me wrong. This is what happens when I use MKD southwest average instead of I3834 with the Alb mdv.

It's slightly better, but pretty much the same, because I3834 is a MKD Southwest individual. He is the equivalent of the Slavic Illyrian from Montenegro.

That's why I am against averaging these unrelated mdv individuals, you might as well throw everything into the soup and call it Illyrian/Albanian.
I3834 is a ancient Southwest MKD individual, I14622 seems unrelated to modern Albanians.

I3839 is part of our ancestry, if it's Albanian, than it represents the mobile Albanian tribes at a very early period. It could also be the local Balkan(not Greek ancestry) native that spoke Greek, maybe even an early Vlach.

Her best model was Thracian, MKD south East, and Moesian, like the Albanian average.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

LOL. This is the reality: when given the chance to pick between Alb_Mdv and Bgr_Mdv sources, Albanians pick Alb_Mdv and they have nothing to do with Bulgaria. Deal with it. J-L283, R-PF7363, R-CTS1450 and Albanian E-V13 didn't come from Bulgaria.

BGR_Kapitan_Andreevo in your model acts as a Roman era source because it has some East Med admixture already which Cinamak doesn't. That's what your "models" show and if you weren't so obsessed with denying reality, you would realize such a thing by replacing Kapitan Andreevo with Roman/early medieval sources. You'll get the same fit, which in any case doesn't matter because you're trying to deduce which model is better by overfitting them.

Repeating again until you actually understand it:
1)the Albanian language is unrelated to Thracian
2)~50% of Albanian pre-Slavic lineages have been found in Cinamak already and we'll find our E-V13 as well in Dardania
3)no Albanian lineages have been found in Thrace

Kapitan-Andreevo are IA, your Alb mdv are partially modern, one is ancient(MKD Ohrid group), and your model still fails, even after mixing it up with I3839 and I14622(which are modern, not ancient) and Ohrid MKD. I3839 also has a Thracian heavy base. You need to add to your model Thracian related ancestry to make it competitive. But it's not exactly 1.1%, now is it?
And what exactly is Dardanian? Are you using Paeonian? Paeonian and Nish? What are you doing?

PS

My model is garbage eh? You are now using my ingredients, from a "garbage" model, from a guy that learned this 5 days ago. PaleoRevegne, king of the Albanians.:embarassed:

 

[Excine]

I3834 is a ancient Southwest MKD individual, I14622 seems unrelated to modern Albanians.

All your comments are utterly pathetic and you keep repeating the same false statements. I3884 is not an ancient "southwest" MKD individual.

His age is estimated to be over 40 years old. The skeleton is well presented.
The skeleton most likely derives from Tumulus 2, grave 1. The grave was oriented NE-SW, with the inhumation in a supine extended position. The radiocarbon date obtained from this individual was 1402-1439 calCE (515±20 BP, PSUAMS-5942).

He is a medieval Albanian from Korça under R-PF7563 whose remains have been radiocarbon dated unlike the misdated sample from Montenegro. It's pointless to reply to you and your fake models again and again, you'll just continue to lie. Everyone here understands where you come from and what you represent and that you're just a propaganda account.

PS Nobody is using your model. You can see what Roman-Dardania is in the previous replies (Naissus E-V13, Viminacium J-L283) I replaced in your model Kapitan Andreevo to show that it's used as a proxy for Roman era sources because it already has East Med admixture. You understand nothing about what we're discussing so it's pointless to further explain anything to you. Once you get around to learning what radiocarbon dating is you can re-enter the debate.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

The question of I3834, this is how it models when I throw the kitchen sink at it.

Source:

HRV_Cetina_BA:Average,0.128050875,0.149283,0.027388375,-0.00121125,0.025197,-0.004287875,0.001527625,-0.0012115,0.007899875,0.02503475,-0.00215175,0.010116125,-0.0163155,-0.010321625,-0.006463875,-0.007193125,0.003552875,0.00147275,0.0015085,-0.005158875,-0.004460875,0.000911875,-0.00263425,0.00308775,-0.00823275
ALB_Çinamak_Anc:Average,0.12475,0.1537512,0.0302452,-0.0142766,0.0300362,-0.0074186,0.003008,0.0005078,-0.001636,0.0248934,0.0011366,0.0071936,-0.0192368,-0.0072664,-0.0093376,-0.0049058,0.0066756,0.0026096,0.0039722,-0.0091042,-0.007986,0.0025474,-0.0043382,0.0057118,-0.0064664
Serbia_Roman:Moesian,0.12316,0.1585535,0.0161995,-0.036883,0.0292795,-0.0138115,-0.0005075,0.001181,0.009147,0.0385595,0.0049785,0.0079705,-0.0137465,-0.0062855,-0.016461,-0.003302,0.014459,0.002647,0.0060465,-0.004639,-0.0080515,-0.001072,-0.0020835,0.000588,-0.003754
MKD_Southwest_Ohrid_Anc:Average,0.1227012,0.153345,0.0232306,-0.0133722,0.0244968,-0.0063586,-0.0016922,-0.0033692,0.0006136,0.0272624,0.0058134,0.0063242,-0.0168878,-0.0066334,-0.0106676,-0.0031822,0.0011472,0.0044846,0.007944,-0.0095546,-0.0135512,0.0084826,-0.0017008,0.009688,-0.0026104
MKD_Paeonian:Average,0.1320345,0.1502985,0.0243245,-0.0292315,0.028005,-0.006833,0.00282,-0.0006925,0.004704,0.0390895,-0.0006495,0.005695,-0.011521,0.000688,-0.014251,0.0009945,0.017993,-0.000317,0.0059705,0.0018135,-0.0137255,0.00204,0.000863,0.002651,0.0040115
HRV_IA:Average,0.122441142857143,0.150153142857143,0.0394361428571429,0.00369142857142857,0.0388202857142857,-0.00119514285714286,0.00147714285714286,0.000461428571428571,0.0141998571428571,0.0264242857142857,-0.00278385714285714,0.00745057142857143,-0.0107885714285714,-0.00587842857142857,-0.00354814285714286,0.000947142857142857,0.00286842857142857,0.00224414285714286,0.00272942857142857,0.00101828571428571,-0.00228171428571429,0.00286185714285714,-0.00422557142857143,-0.00227214285714286,-0.00200142857142857
MKD_Southeast_Valandovo_Anc:Average,0.124636,0.1543605,0.0211185,-0.021964,0.02939,-0.0131075,-0.0022325,-0.0055385,0.0057265,0.032438,-0.0026795,0.008767,-0.014717,-0.004335,-0.013504,-0.0050385,0.0084745,0.0059545,0.007919,-0.006253,-0.009608,0.00068,-0.0021565,0.0071095,-0.001976
BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:Average,0.1217906,0.1598444,0.0085982,-0.05168,0.0336678,-0.025881,0.001927,-0.0036462,0.01129,0.0471628,0.0024358,0.0098014,-0.0169474,0.0009636,-0.0248912,-0.0074514,0.0131166,0.0041046,0.0115894,-0.0076036,-0.0087346,0.000445,-0.0031798,0.0012288,-0.0085024
Alb:Average,0.120045466666667,0.1427158,0.0153002857142857,-0.0162792,0.0248457333333333,-0.0076416,0.003384,0.0014462,0.000790933333333333,0.0167900666666667,0.00104392857142857,0.00247773333333333,-0.0068186,0.00725733333333333,-0.019399,-0.0055864,0.0062324,0.0016808,0.0086648,-0.0067198,-0.0069126,0.0009314,0.00234986666666667,0.00308473333333333,-0.00245086666666667
Sargat_IA:Average,0.093477,-0.068548125,0.0658075,0.0608855,-0.049201625,-6.98750000000006E-05,0.003055125,0.004442,-0.01516025,-0.02890725,0.014899125,-0.00252875,0.008566625,-0.033236,0.002680375,0.001027625,-0.009664875,0.00121925,-0.001853875,-0.003329625,-0.009343,0.006244375,0.001802375,0.003057625,0.001167625
MNG_Early_Xiongnu:Average,0.0668927692307692,-0.207246076923077,0.0557848461538462,0.0257157692307692,-0.0602005384615385,-0.009375,0.00723107692307692,0.00658553846153846,-0.0122085384615385,-0.0164993846153846,-0.0166386153846154,-0.00288215384615385,-0.000903461538461539,-0.0122060769230769,0.0140104615384615,0.000917846153846154,-0.00948784615384615,0.00161784615384615,0.00147938461538462,0.00503115384615384,-0.0186401538461538,-0.00195938461538462,-0.00628553846153846,0.00203923076923077,0.00205415384615385
AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LC:ALX002,0.097888,0.137096,-0.06939,-0.072675,-0.023697,-0.013666,0.005875,-0.003692,-0.024338,-0.00164,0.011205,-0.013338,0.012636,0.00578,-0.020765,0.030893,0.024903,0.004181,-0.000251,-0.007754,0.004617,0.015086,-0.003944,-0.015544,-0.005508
ARM_Noratus_Anc:Average,0.0944735,0.137604,-0.05638,-0.0637925,-0.0253895,-0.019941,0.0038775,-0.005192,-0.0223955,-0.0041,0.00609,0.00517,-0.006764,-0.0052985,-0.0010855,0.00305,0.009453,-0.001964,0.005594,-0.0068785,0.003993,-0.00136,0.0019105,-0.0025905,0.003353

It will not even pick up any Alb average at all, nothing zero. How is that even possible? Because it is not modern, it is a mislabeled ancient individual. He happens to group with the MKD Ohrid group, because suprise suprise, he was found in a in tumulus burial in Korca. Korca, is right next to Ohrid Macedonia. Another shocker.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

All your comments are utterly pathetic and you keep repeating the same false statements. I3884 is not an ancient "southwest" MKD individual.

His age is estimated to be over 40 years old. The skeleton is well presented.
The skeleton most likely derives from Tumulus 2, grave 1. The grave was oriented NE-SW, with the inhumation in a supine extended position. The radiocarbon date obtained from this individual was 1402-1439 calCE (515±20 BP, PSUAMS-5942).

You keep quoting the paper like it's the word of God. There is no guarantee there is no screw up, or deliberate mislabeling. Either way it's a clear as day, this is a ancient individual. I am more than willing to have the wizards of this forum prove it wrong, see my previous post, proved, zero modern Albanian.

He is a medieval Albanian from Korça under R-PF7563 whose remains have been radiocarbon dated unlike the misdated sample from Montenegro. It's pointless to reply to you and your fake models again and again, you'll just continue to lie. Everyone here understands where you come from and what you represent and that you're just a propaganda account.

I am 100% certain, everyone other than your fanboys know I am levels above you. Where is the cheese boy? Is he grinding his teeth?
I have made a very viable model, where is the, oh thanks man, I didn't catch that, cool. Just ungrateful miserable cretins.

 

[Excine]

You keep quoting the paper like it's the word of God. There is no guarantee there is now screw up, or deliberate mislabeling. Either way it's a clear as day, this is a ancient individual. I am more than willing to have the wizards of this forum prove it wrong, see my previous post, proved, zero modern Albanian.

If you understood the anything about radiocarbon dating you would understand how ludicrous your statement about them "screwing up" or deliberately mislabeling it sounds. It's pointless to continue this discussion. There's no room for debate with people who when faced with reality prefer to create conspiracy theories to deny it.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

If you understood the anything about radiocarbon dating you would understand how ludicrous your statement about them "screwing up" or deliberately mislabeling it sounds. It's pointless to continue this discussion. There's no room for debate with people who when faced with reality prefer to create conspiracy theories to deny it.

You are just an idiot, this is not me questioning the science of carbondating. I am questioning if there is mistake, a mislabel of what was tested for DNA vs what was tested for age, intentional or by accident, it does not matter. The individual is clearly ancient genome, possibly even LBA, so he cant be mdv. You're the one questioning science.

I am more than willing to have this looked at by the non-Albanian wizards of this forum. Zero problem with it.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

PS Nobody is using your model. You can see what Roman-Dardania is in the previous replies (Naissus E-V13, Viminacium J-L283) I replaced in your model Kapitan Andreevo to show that it's used as a proxy for Roman era sources because it already has East Med admixture. You understand nothing about what we're discussing so it's pointless to further explain anything to you. Once you get around to learning what radiocarbon dating is you can re-enter the debate.

Viminacium R9669? That's not Dardania, and his genome is straight up Illyrian. He also has MENA and Gothic admixture. In my averages I excluded Sirmium R6730 and Krusevlje R6701 solely because of far less MENA and Gothic mixture than R9669. So you combined a Triballian or east Dardanian with a mixed Illyrian. Plus modern individuals, plus an accidental MKD and still didn't get it at 1.1%

.

This is what happens when I include Sirmium R6730 and Krusevlje R6701 to my Moesian average. Note that I am not using any modern individuals and it still outperforms yours. Not to mention the Thracian model, which is entirely IA based and scores even better.

 

[enter_tain]

I think people should just ignore PalleKarievenge. The guy is just a desperate troll seeking attention.

According to him, anything that makes Albania look good is automatically false. That's how logic works. I guess Albanians being here before Slavs is also fake because it makes them look good. Because reality gives a shit who looks good and looks bad. That's how reality works.

 

[enter_tain]

I am referring to him, obviously.

He is misunderstanding that actually, he thinks the Balkans IA cluster is pred NE. He is confusing Balkan Neolithic that makes up the chunk of Balkans IA cluster with NE, referred to in that paper.

Hence why I am not a big fan of these autosomal models. Look at Paleo chasing his tale around lol

I only focus on Y chromosomes - exact science basically.

You need to read that paper and stop pretending to be an expert in stuff you clearly haven't read. "Balkan Iron Age" people were sampled as "67% Bronze Age Aegean". Those "Bronze Age Aegeans" plotted right next to "East Med" Roman Empire people.

And what was your point about the clades? I specifically said E-V13 people should live in the region around Constantinople and got assimilated. That includes Thracians, Greeks, Phrygians, Trojans, or whoever lived in the border between Anatolia/Europe. E-V13 has always been labelled "West Asian". That's not my opinion.