Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

I have no problem with more data, I wish I can make things move faster in that regard. If the next batch of 100 ancient samples includes Kruja-Komani, it is guaranteed to be loaded with J2b-L283 and no E-V13(at best 7% ratio), certain Gheg PF7653 branches are more likely to appear among Kruja-Komani than E-V13. And yes I do converge with some of the members from poreklo, I don't see the issue. You probably speak their language so you are familiar with their conversations, through google translate I sense zero malice in their tone, it's impressive how cool headed the discussion is approached vs the manchildren one has to deal with here, throwing tantrums all over the place. I'm not referring to you obviously.

You can't ignore all these Montenegrin tribes of Albanian origin being exclusively R-Z2103 and E-V13. Albanians were also present in medieval Kosovo, yet Kosovo Serbs only have R-Z2103 and E-V13 as proof of this presence, J2b-L283 lacks this representation.

And since some Anthrogenica posters love my models. What is it with Thessalians scoring like Alb post-mdv, and why is this same ancestry picked up quite strongly in eastern Macedonians, where the Bessi culture used to reign?

FvA7Tx1.png

I don’t think Komani-Kruja will be loaded with L283. If anything, we most likely find all the exotic linages that are found among us in their remains. Especially in main route outposts like Dalmace etc. Further inland, perhaps we will get more native linages. Proportionally speaking, based on the percentages we are seeing during late Iron Age and early Middle Ages, also keeping in mind our percentages, V13 will probably be higher during that period.


They are not objective at all. Anything that doesn’t sway from their model, for the moment predating us in Albania, works for them.

Actually majority of the clans belong to L283 and V13 subclades. There are only two tribes that belong to R1b-Z2705. Only Bytyci on our side and Piperi in Montenegro. R1b-Z2705 is the most pan Albanian subclade yet super weak among the northern clans. Almost non existent in Puke and Mirdite, for example (only present among some families in Fan). It’s mostly due to chance me thinks, not necessarily connected to different populations moving about. And we do have very strong L283 clans around there anyway, like Kastrati, Shkreli, Gruda and Hoti.


.
 
I don’t think Komani-Kruja will be loaded with L283. If anything, we most likely find all the exotic linages that are found among us in their remains. Especially in main route outposts like Dalmace etc. Further inland, perhaps we will get more native linages. Proportionally speaking, based on the percentages we are seeing during late Iron Age and early Middle Ages, also keeping in mind our percentages, V13 will probably be higher during that period.


They are not objective at all. Anything that doesn’t sway from their model, for the moment predating us in Albania, works for them.

Actually majority of the clans belong to L283 and V13 subclades. There are only two tribes that belong to R1b-Z2705. Only Bytyci on our side and Piperi in Montenegro. R1b-Z2705 is the most pan Albanian subclade yet super weak among the northern clans. Almost non existent in Puke and Mirdite, for example (only present among some families in Fan). It’s mostly due to chance me thinks, not necessarily connected to different populations moving about. And we do have very strong L283 clans around there anyway, like Kastrati, Shkreli, Gruda and Hoti.


They don't predate us in Albania, any Slavs that lived in Albania were unaffiliated to Serbs, even Deocleatians were not originally Serbs (this is a poreklo proposal not mine). But if you are worried about such a mute point, R1b-Z2705 was around in a healthy dosage in BA Serbia. And initially it was concentrated north (and probably east as well) and gradually was reduced to southern habitat. All in all, form north to south of their country, Albanians predate them.

I think
the leading/ruler clans, R1b-Z2705 and many E-V13 were crushed/devastated by the Ottoman invasion, and that's when many native haplgroups made a recovery. We will see though, more pre-modern samples will eventually be published.

PF7563 has more association with ancient northern Greeks(Epirots, maybe MKD too), which modern Greeks barely carry. There is a lot of irony and humor that's on our side here. From my perspective, the situation is looking better than my expectations. Aim small miss small.
 
It would be interesting to have the DNA of this illyrian GENTIONE (GENTIUS) and his family living in Nish in 5th-6th century.
-
-
311338357_10230894676056904_6255251119357342715_n.jpg
 
It would be interesting to have the DNA of this illyrian GENTIONE (GENTIUS) and his family living in Nish in 5th-6th century.
-
-
311338357_10230894676056904_6255251119357342715_n.jpg


where does it say Illyrian ?
 
i read the report, it says

either Thracian, Dacian, Illyrian or Celtic

the town survived to invasions from the Goths and later the Huns
 
T
he modern town of Niš (Republic of Serbia) gotits name after antique
Naissus
(
Νάϊσσος
,
Ναϊσ-σός
,
Naessus, urbs Naisitana, Navissus, Navis-sum
,
Ναϊσσούπολις
)
2
. The Antique town arose on theleft bank of Nišava, most likely during the I centuryAD. At this time, the territory was inhabited by popula-tion on whose ethnic structure little is known; scarceonomastic and archaeological data suggest the presen-ce of members of Illyrian, Thracian, Dacian and Celticorigin
3
. Thanks to a very favourable geographical andstrategic position, on the junction of roads for
Vimina-cium, Ratiaria, Serdica, Constantinopolis,Thessaloniki
and
Lissus
,


Apart from the ascents it had, Naissus and its nei-ghbouring region also survived significant devasta-tions in the Late Antique period. First strokes hit thetown in the years 378-380 by Western Goths. In the ye-ar 441 Huns besieged and destroyed Naissus
10
,
 
This was posted by rrenjet twitter account.

Fl-h92fWQA8fJ3g


Quick statistical observations. I-Y3120 to R-M417 ratio is 2.57 for Kosovo Serbs, and 2.6667 for Kosovo Albs. E-V13 to R-M269 ratio is 1.416667 for both Albs and Serbs in Kosovo. This points to paleo-Balkan haplogroups among Kosovo Serbs coming from Albanians and the Slavic layer among Kosovo Albanians being transmitted through Slavs of Kosovo or those Slavs being the same as the Kosovo group.

The odd member is J2b-L283 which is excessively low among the Serbs of Kosovo, as it is extremely low among the Serbs of Montenegro. It is not a odd pattern, if one understands why.

Kosovo Serbs are nearly as southern as Montenegrins I assumed they would be in 40% range of I2a + R1a not 50%.
Montenegrins have less I2a and R1a and even less I1. The sample size is pretty decent too.
 
The odd member is J2b-L283 which is excessively low among the Serbs of Kosovo, as it is extremely low among the Serbs of Montenegro. It is not a odd pattern, if one understands why.

I2a and R1a is the same in Kosovo Albanians as it is in other Ghegs and J2b-L283 is the same in Kosovo Serbs as it is on other Serbs. The pattern is those 2 groups did not mix.
 
Thought I might include some of Matzinger's work here since we are all huge fans:






Matzinger (2018), Lexicon of Albanian in Handbook of Comparative and Historical Indo-European Linguistics (vol. 3), De Gruyter:


Although it is widely believed that Albanian goes back to Illyrian or even Thracian, this view cannot be seriously upheld from the linguistic point of view (see Matzinger 2009). None of the ancient personal or local names ascribed to Illyrian are continued in Albanian without interruption (e.g. the place-name Shkodra is merely a loan from Latin Scodra). Consequently, Albanian cannot be regarded as an offspring of Illyrian or even Thracian but must be considered to be a modern continuation of some other undocumented Indo-European Balkan idiom. However, Albanian is closely related to Illyrian and also Messapic (a language spoken in Southern Italy in antiquity but originally of Balkan origin), which is why Albanian in some instances may shed some light on the explanation of Messapic as well as Illyrian words (see Matzinger 2005): (Messapic-) Oenotrian ῥινός ‘clouds’ ~ Old Geg rẽ, Old Tosk rē ‘cloud’, the Messapic gloss βρένδο- ‘stag’ and the place-name Brundisium (Italian Bríndisi) ~ Old Geg brĩ, or the name of the Illyrian tribe of the Taulantioi ~ Albanian dallëndyshe ‘swallow’ (see Eichner 2004: 10 f.).



What complicates the connection between Albanian and Bessian is the fact that (a) 'Thracian' has only survived marginally and especially Bessian completely Joachim Matzinger (Vienna), Munich November 30, 2016
16 is unknown(27) and above all (b) the individual Albanian and Thracian sound history
shows separate reflexes that cannot be combined as results of one language!




Albanian shares a considerable number of words in common with Rumanian (see Solta 1980: 3 f., 125 f. and Vătăşescu 1997). Some of them are remnants of an old inherited vocabulary (e.g. Albanian thark ‘pen for young livestock’ ~ Rumanian ţarc ‘id.’), while others comprise a younger category of Latin words attested in some cases only in Albanian and Rumanian (e.g. Albanian mëngon ‘get up very early’ ~ Rumanian mâneca ‘id.’ ← Latin *mānicāre ‘id.’). Both classes emerged from old and intensive contacts between the Proto-Albanians and the ancestors of the Rumanians. A widespread opinion regards the older category of the Albano-Rumanian common lexicon as the reflex of an ancient substratum of Thracian, Dacian, or unknown origin (a collection of these words is Brâncuş 1983). Aside from a few single words of perhaps non-Indo-European origin (Albanian modhullë ‘yellow vetchling [Lathyrus aphaca]’ ~ Rumanian mazăre ‘pea’), the largest part of this alleged substratum common to both Albanian and Rumanian consists simply of loan-words in Rumanian from Proto-Albanian, e.g. Rumanian ţarc ‘pen for young livestock’ from Proto-Albanian */tsárka-/ (Modern Albanian thark). The derivational base of this noun is continued in the Old Albanian verb thurën ‘interweave’ (< IE */k̑erH-/ ‘weave’, cf. Latin crātis ‘pen’; see details in Schumacher 2009: 43−45).





It is a characteristic feature of the Albanian language to be open to loan-words from various sources. The oldest stratum is found in Ancient Greek loans, which result from contacts between Greeks and speakers of Proto-Albanian from about 600 BCE onward. Subsequent to the Roman occupation of the Balkans, Proto-Albanian was heavily influenced by Latin. Single words as well as a good many derivational suffixes were taken over.

The Greek loan-words are of various chonological origins. The oldest are of Ancient Greek (Doric) provenance, mostly designations of vegetables, spices, fruits, animals, and tools (cf. Old Geg drapënë, modern Albanian drapër ‘sickle’ ← δρέπανον ‘id.’, Old Geg lakënë, modern Albanian lakër ‘cabbage’ ← λάχανον ‘potherbs’, presh ‘leek’ ← πράσον ‘id.’). These loans resulted from the earliest contacts between Greeks − either colonists of the Adriatic coastal regions or more probably Greek merchants in the Balkan hinterland − and Proto-Albanians from the 8th century BCE on.




Serbo-Croat. Nîš, Alban. Nish: The ancient name has been handed down in several variations,
so a.o. Greek (old) NaϊssÒj, (Byzantine) N£ϊsoj, °on, Na‹soj ~ Latin. Naissus, Naisum,
Naessum, Nessus(19) . It should be recognized that the serbocroat. Form Nîš neither from a
greek. another latin. Basic shape can come as at the time of arrival
of the Slavs around 550 probably with a monophthongized basic form */Né̜sus/
would be calculated, which would have resulted in Slav. **Něsъ or **Nesъ. The (already older) opinion
after which serbocroat. Nîš from the alban. form is adopted by G. SCHRAMM,
Eroberer, p. 308 in my opinion wrongly rejected.(20) Is taken as the starting point for the
development */Na.ís(s)os/(21), the following processes would have resulted: */Nə.íʃə(h)/
> */Nə.íʃə/ > */Nṑʃ(ə)/(22) > */Nṑʃ/ led to be the source of Slavic borrowing
could. It follows from the fact that the development of the ancient name form to that
Source form from which the Slavic form of the name is borrowed, definitely and precisely only with alban.
Sound developments is comparable. However, given the evidence, it cannot be ruled out
be that this development to */Nīʃ/ (→ slav./serbokroat. Nîš) ultimately one
attributable to a regional idiom that is not identical to Albanian




Matzinger (2018), Lexicon of Albanian in Handbook of Comparative and Historical Indo-European Linguistics (vol. 3), De Gruyter:


Although it is widely believed that Albanian goes back to Illyrian or even Thracian, this view cannot be seriously upheld from the linguistic point of view (see Matzinger 2009). None of the ancient personal or local names ascribed to Illyrian are continued in Albanian without interruption (e.g. the place-name Shkodra is merely a loan from Latin Scodra). Consequently, Albanian cannot be regarded as an offspring of Illyrian or even Thracian but must be considered to be a modern continuation of some other undocumented Indo-European Balkan idiom. However, Albanian is closely related to Illyrian and also Messapic (a language spoken in Southern Italy in antiquity but originally of Balkan origin), which is why Albanian in some instances may shed some light on the explanation of Messapic as well as Illyrian words (see Matzinger 2005): (Messapic-) Oenotrian ῥινός ‘clouds’ ~ Old Geg rẽ, Old Tosk rē ‘cloud’, the Messapic gloss βρένδο- ‘stag’ and the place-name Brundisium (Italian Bríndisi) ~ Old Geg brĩ, or the name of the Illyrian tribe of the Taulantioi ~ Albanian dallëndyshe ‘swallow’ (see Eichner 2004: 10 f.).



What complicates the connection between Albanian and Bessian is the fact that (a) 'Thracian' has only survived marginally and especially Bessian completely Joachim Matzinger (Vienna), Munich November 30, 2016
16 is unknown(27) and above all (b) the individual Albanian and Thracian sound history
shows separate reflexes that cannot be combined as results of one language!




Albanian shares a considerable number of words in common with Rumanian (see Solta 1980: 3 f., 125 f. and Vătăşescu 1997). Some of them are remnants of an old inherited vocabulary (e.g. Albanian thark ‘pen for young livestock’ ~ Rumanian ţarc ‘id.’), while others comprise a younger category of Latin words attested in some cases only in Albanian and Rumanian (e.g. Albanian mëngon ‘get up very early’ ~ Rumanian mâneca ‘id.’ ← Latin *mānicāre ‘id.’). Both classes emerged from old and intensive contacts between the Proto-Albanians and the ancestors of the Rumanians. A widespread opinion regards the older category of the Albano-Rumanian common lexicon as the reflex of an ancient substratum of Thracian, Dacian, or unknown origin (a collection of these words is Brâncuş 1983). Aside from a few single words of perhaps non-Indo-European origin (Albanian modhullë ‘yellow vetchling [Lathyrus aphaca]’ ~ Rumanian mazăre ‘pea’), the largest part of this alleged substratum common to both Albanian and Rumanian consists simply of loan-words in Rumanian from Proto-Albanian, e.g. Rumanian ţarc ‘pen for young livestock’ from Proto-Albanian */tsárka-/ (Modern Albanian thark). The derivational base of this noun is continued in the Old Albanian verb thurën ‘interweave’ (< IE */k̑erH-/ ‘weave’, cf. Latin crātis ‘pen’; see details in Schumacher 2009: 43−45).





It is a characteristic feature of the Albanian language to be open to loan-words from various sources. The oldest stratum is found in Ancient Greek loans, which result from contacts between Greeks and speakers of Proto-Albanian from about 600 BCE onward. Subsequent to the Roman occupation of the Balkans, Proto-Albanian was heavily influenced by Latin. Single words as well as a good many derivational suffixes were taken over.

The Greek loan-words are of various chonological origins. The oldest are of Ancient Greek (Doric) provenance, mostly designations of vegetables, spices, fruits, animals, and tools (cf. Old Geg drapënë, modern Albanian drapër ‘sickle’ ← δρέπανον ‘id.’, Old Geg lakënë, modern Albanian lakër ‘cabbage’ ← λάχανον ‘potherbs’, presh ‘leek’ ← πράσον ‘id.’). These loans resulted from the earliest contacts between Greeks − either colonists of the Adriatic coastal regions or more probably Greek merchants in the Balkan hinterland − and Proto-Albanians from the 8th century BCE on.




Serbo-Croat. Nîš, Alban. Nish: The ancient name has been handed down in several variations,
so a.o. Greek (old) NaϊssÒj, (Byzantine) N£ϊsoj, °on, Na‹soj ~ Latin. Naissus, Naisum,
Naessum, Nessus(19) . It should be recognized that the serbocroat. Form Nîš neither from a
greek. another latin. Basic shape can come as at the time of arrival
of the Slavs around 550 probably with a monophthongized basic form */Né̜sus/
would be calculated, which would have resulted in Slav. **Něsъ or **Nesъ. The (already older) opinion
after which serbocroat. Nîš from the alban. form is adopted by G. SCHRAMM,
Eroberer, p. 308 in my opinion wrongly rejected.(20) Is taken as the starting point for the
development */Na.ís(s)os/(21), the following processes would have resulted: */Nə.íʃə(h)/
> */Nə.íʃə/ > */Nṑʃ(ə)/(22) > */Nṑʃ/ led to be the source of Slavic borrowing
could. It follows from the fact that the development of the ancient name form to that
Source form from which the Slavic form of the name is borrowed, definitely and precisely only with alban.
Sound developments is comparable. However, given the evidence, it cannot be ruled out
be that this development to */Nīʃ/ (→ slav./serbokroat. Nîš) ultimately one
attributable to a regional idiom that is not identical to Albanian




– Serbo-Croat. Šara or Šar (planina), alban. Sharr: The antique as Sk£rdon or Scordus
(mons) well-known mountain range shows an initial sound compared to the ancient name
/ʃ/, which cannot be derived phonetically from /sk/ in either Slavic or Albanian
is! This is either tacitly ignored in the Albanian literature,
or - as G. SCHRAMM, Beginnings, p. 25 shows - even more so as positive evidence for
Albanian mediation in the field. From a linguistic point of view
say that – as explained in §1) (esp. to ON Scodra) – only the change from
*/sṢ/ > early Uralban. */hk/, */x/ > late Uralban. */h/ is to be recognized and that after
/sk/ foreign to this change only through alban. /ʃk/ was substituted. There is no internal Albanian deviation from this in the development of this oronym
Reference point! As a consequence, it follows that according to the current state of knowledge
the sound form */ʃar/ from the ancient Scard° – as G. SCHRAMM, Begins, p. 40 means
– may be a development of the local idiom, which can therefore not be identical to Albanian. However, an alternative would still need to be examined


 
This was posted by rrenjet twitter account.

Quick statistical observations. I-Y3120 to R-M417 ratio is 2.57 for Kosovo Serbs, and 2.6667 for Kosovo Albs. E-V13 to R-M269 ratio is 1.416667 for both Albs and Serbs in Kosovo. This points to paleo-Balkan haplogroups among Kosovo Serbs coming from Albanians and the Slavic layer among Kosovo Albanians being transmitted through Slavs of Kosovo or those Slavs being the same as the Kosovo group.

The odd member is J2b-L283 which is excessively low among the Serbs of Kosovo, as it is extremely low among the Serbs of Montenegro. It is not a odd pattern, if one understands why.


It is an odd patterns considering even Vlachs have good amount of J-L283. And even found to some extent in the Gora region. Kosovo Serbs aren't all native Slavs but came from other areas like many Albanians. Some of them are Vasojevic, Bjelopavlici etc from Montenegro etc or came from Bosnia, Herzegovina, Serbia etc. I know enough about history to know a study on Eastern Kosovo showed a large chunk of Kosovo Serbs there had come from somewhere else outside of Kosovo.
 
@ reso

find out what the dacians spoke before using a latin based language and most likely you will find a proto-albanain language linked with it.
 
before using a latin based language and most likely you will find a proto-albanain language linked with it.



Show us modern studies that link the Albanian language to Dacian or please be quite you imbecile.

Dacian language was structured completely different from the Albanian, this can be seen by their place names -dava etc which does not occur in Albanian. This is has already been explained 100 times, make some arguments against it or shut the **** up.

And no Dacians were never Latinized, they barely were ruled by the Romans for 150 years. Vlachs were mentioned in the Western and Central Balkans along side Albanian katuns. They are most likely Romanized Illyrians. The Romanian-Albanian connection mainly includes Albanian words into Romanian in the Late Roman period. Romanian could of aswell come from somewhere else before that.

The OP goes around and creates fake internet maps of a proto-Albanian homeland which supposedly included Bulgaria and he has quoted Matzinger but this is not even what Matzinger is saying. Nowhere does he say Albanian was spoken there. Most funny part is people have used the OP's pictures on other foras to make some kind of argument. Matzinger says the Albanian language has been in Albania/Montenegro at least since 200-400 AD. So he is not some guy who says Albanians arrived when Slavs arrived. Most Thracians were hellenized, especially in Bulgaria, so they can be ruled out as ancestor of Albanian nor does it match the autosomal to model Albanians with.



Make some arguments or shut the **** up you imbecile, as per now, there is nothing that suggests Albanian came from Dacian or Thracian.
 
Thought I might include some of Matzinger's work here since we are all huge fans:
Matzinger (2018), Lexicon of Albanian in Handbook of Comparative and Historical Indo-European Linguistics (vol. 3), De Gruyter:
Although it is widely believed that Albanian goes back to Illyrian or even Thracian, this view cannot be seriously upheld from the linguistic point of view (see Matzinger 2009). None of the ancient personal or local names ascribed to Illyrian are continued in Albanian without interruption (e.g. the place-name Shkodra is merely a loan from Latin Scodra). Consequently, Albanian cannot be regarded as an offspring of Illyrian or even Thracian but must be considered to be a modern continuation of some other undocumented Indo-European Balkan idiom. However, Albanian is closely related to Illyrian and also Messapic (a language spoken in Southern Italy in antiquity but originally of Balkan origin), which is why Albanian in some instances may shed some light on the explanation of Messapic as well as Illyrian words (see Matzinger 2005): (Messapic-) Oenotrian ῥινός ‘clouds’ ~ Old Geg rẽ, Old Tosk rē ‘cloud’, the Messapic gloss βρένδο- ‘stag’ and the place-name Brundisium (Italian Bríndisi) ~ Old Geg brĩ, or the name of the Illyrian tribe of the Taulantioi ~ Albanian dallëndyshe ‘swallow’ (see Eichner 2004: 10 f.).



What complicates the connection between Albanian and Bessian is the fact that (a) 'Thracian' has only survived marginally and especially Bessian completely Joachim Matzinger (Vienna), Munich November 30, 2016
16 is unknown(27) and above all (b) the individual Albanian and Thracian sound history
shows separate reflexes that cannot be combined as results of one language!




Albanian shares a considerable number of words in common with Rumanian (see Solta 1980: 3 f., 125 f. and Vătăşescu 1997). Some of them are remnants of an old inherited vocabulary (e.g. Albanian thark ‘pen for young livestock’ ~ Rumanian ţarc ‘id.’), while others comprise a younger category of Latin words attested in some cases only in Albanian and Rumanian (e.g. Albanian mëngon ‘get up very early’ ~ Rumanian mâneca ‘id.’ ← Latin *mānicāre ‘id.’). Both classes emerged from old and intensive contacts between the Proto-Albanians and the ancestors of the Rumanians. A widespread opinion regards the older category of the Albano-Rumanian common lexicon as the reflex of an ancient substratum of Thracian, Dacian, or unknown origin (a collection of these words is Brâncuş 1983). Aside from a few single words of perhaps non-Indo-European origin (Albanian modhullë ‘yellow vetchling [Lathyrus aphaca]’ ~ Rumanian mazăre ‘pea’), the largest part of this alleged substratum common to both Albanian and Rumanian consists simply of loan-words in Rumanian from Proto-Albanian, e.g. Rumanian ţarc ‘pen for young livestock’ from Proto-Albanian */tsárka-/ (Modern Albanian thark). The derivational base of this noun is continued in the Old Albanian verb thurën ‘interweave’ (< IE */k̑erH-/ ‘weave’, cf. Latin crātis ‘pen’; see details in Schumacher 2009: 43−45).



It is a characteristic feature of the Albanian language to be open to loan-words from various sources. The oldest stratum is found in Ancient Greek loans, which result from contacts between Greeks and speakers of Proto-Albanian from about 600 BCE onward. Subsequent to the Roman occupation of the Balkans, Proto-Albanian was heavily influenced by Latin. Single words as well as a good many derivational suffixes were taken over.
The Greek loan-words are of various chonological origins. The oldest are of Ancient Greek (Doric) provenance, mostly designations of vegetables, spices, fruits, animals, and tools (cf. Old Geg drapënë, modern Albanian drapër ‘sickle’ ← δρέπανον ‘id.’, Old Geg lakënë, modern Albanian lakër ‘cabbage’ ← λάχανον ‘potherbs’, presh ‘leek’ ← πράσον ‘id.’). These loans resulted from the earliest contacts between Greeks − either colonists of the Adriatic coastal regions or more probably Greek merchants in the Balkan hinterland − and Proto-Albanians from the 8th century BCE on.




Serbo-Croat. Nîš, Alban. Nish: The ancient name has been handed down in several variations,
so a.o. Greek (old) NaϊssÒj, (Byzantine) N£ϊsoj, °on, Na‹soj ~ Latin. Naissus, Naisum,
Naessum, Nessus(19) . It should be recognized that the serbocroat. Form Nîš neither from a
greek. another latin. Basic shape can come as at the time of arrival
of the Slavs around 550 probably with a monophthongized basic form */Né̜sus/
would be calculated, which would have resulted in Slav. **Něsъ or **Nesъ. The (already older) opinion
after which serbocroat. Nîš from the alban. form is adopted by G. SCHRAMM,
Eroberer, p. 308 in my opinion wrongly rejected.(20) Is taken as the starting point for the
development */Na.ís(s)os/(21), the following processes would have resulted: */Nə.íʃə(h)/
> */Nə.íʃə/ > */Nṑʃ(ə)/(22) > */Nṑʃ/ led to be the source of Slavic borrowing
could. It follows from the fact that the development of the ancient name form to that
Source form from which the Slavic form of the name is borrowed, definitely and precisely only with alban.
Sound developments is comparable. However, given the evidence, it cannot be ruled out
be that this development to */Nīʃ/ (→ slav./serbokroat. Nîš) ultimately one
attributable to a regional idiom that is not identical to Albanian



Matzinger (2018), Lexicon of Albanian in Handbook of Comparative and Historical Indo-European Linguistics (vol. 3), De Gruyter:
Although it is widely believed that Albanian goes back to Illyrian or even Thracian, this view cannot be seriously upheld from the linguistic point of view (see Matzinger 2009). None of the ancient personal or local names ascribed to Illyrian are continued in Albanian without interruption (e.g. the place-name Shkodra is merely a loan from Latin Scodra). Consequently, Albanian cannot be regarded as an offspring of Illyrian or even Thracian but must be considered to be a modern continuation of some other undocumented Indo-European Balkan idiom. However, Albanian is closely related to Illyrian and also Messapic (a language spoken in Southern Italy in antiquity but originally of Balkan origin), which is why Albanian in some instances may shed some light on the explanation of Messapic as well as Illyrian words (see Matzinger 2005): (Messapic-) Oenotrian ῥινός ‘clouds’ ~ Old Geg rẽ, Old Tosk rē ‘cloud’, the Messapic gloss βρένδο- ‘stag’ and the place-name Brundisium (Italian Bríndisi) ~ Old Geg brĩ, or the name of the Illyrian tribe of the Taulantioi ~ Albanian dallëndyshe ‘swallow’ (see Eichner 2004: 10 f.).



What complicates the connection between Albanian and Bessian is the fact that (a) 'Thracian' has only survived marginally and especially Bessian completely Joachim Matzinger (Vienna), Munich November 30, 2016
16 is unknown(27) and above all (b) the individual Albanian and Thracian sound history
shows separate reflexes that cannot be combined as results of one language!




Albanian shares a considerable number of words in common with Rumanian (see Solta 1980: 3 f., 125 f. and Vătăşescu 1997). Some of them are remnants of an old inherited vocabulary (e.g. Albanian thark ‘pen for young livestock’ ~ Rumanian ţarc ‘id.’), while others comprise a younger category of Latin words attested in some cases only in Albanian and Rumanian (e.g. Albanian mëngon ‘get up very early’ ~ Rumanian mâneca ‘id.’ ← Latin *mānicāre ‘id.’). Both classes emerged from old and intensive contacts between the Proto-Albanians and the ancestors of the Rumanians. A widespread opinion regards the older category of the Albano-Rumanian common lexicon as the reflex of an ancient substratum of Thracian, Dacian, or unknown origin (a collection of these words is Brâncuş 1983). Aside from a few single words of perhaps non-Indo-European origin (Albanian modhullë ‘yellow vetchling [Lathyrus aphaca]’ ~ Rumanian mazăre ‘pea’), the largest part of this alleged substratum common to both Albanian and Rumanian consists simply of loan-words in Rumanian from Proto-Albanian, e.g. Rumanian ţarc ‘pen for young livestock’ from Proto-Albanian */tsárka-/ (Modern Albanian thark). The derivational base of this noun is continued in the Old Albanian verb thurën ‘interweave’ (< IE */k̑erH-/ ‘weave’, cf. Latin crātis ‘pen’; see details in Schumacher 2009: 43−45).



It is a characteristic feature of the Albanian language to be open to loan-words from various sources. The oldest stratum is found in Ancient Greek loans, which result from contacts between Greeks and speakers of Proto-Albanian from about 600 BCE onward. Subsequent to the Roman occupation of the Balkans, Proto-Albanian was heavily influenced by Latin. Single words as well as a good many derivational suffixes were taken over.
The Greek loan-words are of various chonological origins. The oldest are of Ancient Greek (Doric) provenance, mostly designations of vegetables, spices, fruits, animals, and tools (cf. Old Geg drapënë, modern Albanian drapër ‘sickle’ ← δρέπανον ‘id.’, Old Geg lakënë, modern Albanian lakër ‘cabbage’ ← λάχανον ‘potherbs’, presh ‘leek’ ← πράσον ‘id.’). These loans resulted from the earliest contacts between Greeks − either colonists of the Adriatic coastal regions or more probably Greek merchants in the Balkan hinterland − and Proto-Albanians from the 8th century BCE on.




Serbo-Croat. Nîš, Alban. Nish: The ancient name has been handed down in several variations,
so a.o. Greek (old) NaϊssÒj, (Byzantine) N£ϊsoj, °on, Na‹soj ~ Latin. Naissus, Naisum,
Naessum, Nessus(19) . It should be recognized that the serbocroat. Form Nîš neither from a
greek. another latin. Basic shape can come as at the time of arrival
of the Slavs around 550 probably with a monophthongized basic form */Né̜sus/
would be calculated, which would have resulted in Slav. **Něsъ or **Nesъ. The (already older) opinion
after which serbocroat. Nîš from the alban. form is adopted by G. SCHRAMM,
Eroberer, p. 308 in my opinion wrongly rejected.(20) Is taken as the starting point for the
development */Na.ís(s)os/(21), the following processes would have resulted: */Nə.íʃə(h)/
> */Nə.íʃə/ > */Nṑʃ(ə)/(22) > */Nṑʃ/ led to be the source of Slavic borrowing
could. It follows from the fact that the development of the ancient name form to that
Source form from which the Slavic form of the name is borrowed, definitely and precisely only with alban.
Sound developments is comparable. However, given the evidence, it cannot be ruled out
be that this development to */Nīʃ/ (→ slav./serbokroat. Nîš) ultimately one
attributable to a regional idiom that is not identical to Albanian
– Serbo-Croat. Šara or Šar (planina), alban. Sharr: The antique as Sk£rdon or Scordus
(mons) well-known mountain range shows an initial sound compared to the ancient name
/ʃ/, which cannot be derived phonetically from /sk/ in either Slavic or Albanian
is! This is either tacitly ignored in the Albanian literature,
or - as G. SCHRAMM, Beginnings, p. 25 shows - even more so as positive evidence for
Albanian mediation in the field. From a linguistic point of view
say that – as explained in §1) (esp. to ON Scodra) – only the change from
*/sṢ/ > early Uralban. */hk/, */x/ > late Uralban. */h/ is to be recognized and that after
/sk/ foreign to this change only through alban. /ʃk/ was substituted. There is no internal Albanian deviation from this in the development of this oronym
Reference point! As a consequence, it follows that according to the current state of knowledge
the sound form */ʃar/ from the ancient Scard° – as G. SCHRAMM, Begins, p. 40 means
– may be a development of the local idiom, which can therefore not be identical to Albanian. However, an alternative would still need to be examined


"or more probably Greek merchants in the Balkan hinterland − and Proto-Albanians from the 8th century BCE on."

So proto-Albs most probably got their small amount of greek loans from balkan hinterland greek merchants, not adriatic coast greeks.

Thanks for that.
 
Show us modern studies that link the Albanian language to Dacian or please be quite you imbecile.

Dacian language was structured completely different from the Albanian, this can be seen by their place names -dava etc which does not occur in Albanian. This is has already been explained 100 times, make some arguments against it or shut the **** up.

And no Dacians were never Latinized, they barely were ruled by the Romans for 150 years. Vlachs were mentioned in the Western and Central Balkans along side Albanian katuns. They are most likely Romanized Illyrians. The Romanian-Albanian connection mainly includes Albanian words into Romanian in the Late Roman period. Romanian could of aswell come from somewhere else before that.

The OP goes around and creates fake internet maps of a proto-Albanian homeland which supposedly included Bulgaria and he has quoted Matzinger but this is not even what Matzinger is saying. Nowhere does he say Albanian was spoken there. Most funny part is people have used the OP's pictures on other foras to make some kind of argument. Matzinger says the Albanian language has been in Albania/Montenegro at least since 200-400 AD. So he is not some guy who says Albanians arrived when Slavs arrived. Most Thracians were hellenized, especially in Bulgaria, so they can be ruled out as ancestor of Albanian nor does it match the autosomal to model Albanians with.



Make some arguments or shut the **** up you imbecile, as per now, there is nothing that suggests Albanian came from Dacian or Thracian.

"
The OP goes around and creates fake internet maps of a proto-Albanian homeland which supposedly included Bulgaria and he has quoted Matzinger but this is not even what Matzinger is saying. Nowhere does he say Albanian was spoken there"

That's a lie, here is where he states it clearly:

FBKrwKlWYC43-uk

FBKru6QWYAA1uUU
 
Triggered Albanian nationalists. What else is new on the internet?
 
In trying to pin the origin of the contested balkan Dardani, one of the problems with linking them to the Glasinac-Mati culture (which Lippert 2022 states "corresponds entirely to the Illyrian personal name area") is the name "Dardanus/Dardania" appearing in the Aegean & Thrace.

While we have instances of Channelled Ware, Barbarian Ware, and Stamped Ware, appearing in both the Balkans and Troy that might account for how and when these transfers occurred, we do not yet have any plausible arguments from the Glasinac camp.


Fv21WH8aYAECWpw
 
In trying to pin the origin of the contested balkan Dardani, one of the problems with linking them to the Glasinac-Mati culture (which Lippert 2022 states "corresponds entirely to the Illyrian personal name area") is the name "Dardanus/Dardania" appearing in the Aegean & Thrace.

While we have instances of Channelled Ware, Barbarian Ware, and Stamped Ware, appearing in both the Balkans and Troy that might account for how and when these transfers occurred, we do not yet have any plausible arguments from the Glasinac camp.


Fv21WH8aYAECWpw

Among Dacians appear names which sound like Dardanos like Diourdanos, Dardiolai...

I don't know what to make sense of classical Dardanians, what was their affinity, but it looks to me they were mixed, with Illyrians on the west and Thracians in the east. And as you already mentioned some non-Thracian, non-Illyrian element as well. It could be that Dardanos was originally a Thracian name which was adopted by the mixed people during classical age. IDK.
 

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