Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[Dushman]

What about his nickname/family name, i think it originates from Ottoman Turkish dusman meaning enemy, he quoted me wikipedia that it derives from dussos and mani but i think it's far fetched, and it should come from Ottoman Turkish instead.

Dushman is E-V13 Z5017, and almost all Balkanites with this subclade belong to further downclade CTS9320, if any E-V13 subclade is to be linked with Daco-Thracians it will be this E-V13 Z5017 =>CTS9320 which has a strict Early Iron Age spread from the direction of the Danube. I guess attacking you is easier than to face facts, that snail Fustanella is just using him by flattering him with words.

Hey Ottoman, what makes you think I would hate the fact that my clade spread during the EARLY IRON AGE? You confuse me with yourselves who always start clade wars among fellow Kosovans or against proper Albanians?

Don’t you see how I get along fine with J2b2 Fustan and R1a Dibran? Must be our EARLY IRON AGE heritage since our nicknames end with -an, as in -anor and -enor, you know, Dardano-Trojan supremacy.

And due to paranoia, you assume I’m like you 2 and hate Thracians. Ottomans, Thracians were a cool, brave, and interesting Paleo-Balkan population that definitely contributed to the formation of Albanians after being driven South and West from Slavs, Goths, Huns, Avars, etc.

And here we have Johane the Right sack playing the professional linguist but meanwhile doesn’t have the capacity to understand that Albanian lume and Italian fiume are cognates, together with Albanian lule and Italian fiore.

What’s worse, it’s not like he hasn’t seen the link between Illyrian ‘vra’ (the beta was pronounced v in that time) but Matzinger hasn’t seen it yet probably like he didn’t see a ton of things few years back. Imagine Matzinger apologizing again for messing things up and Mr. Paranoia switches entirely to Bessi and Trojans.

What does Aeneas mean according to Matzinger? From Proto-Albanian ‘ene’ (boat, vessel)? Since he made a journey from Troy to Rome through the sea?

@Fustan, don’t use me so much man. I thought we were swe-sloughs.

I think you’re tired over the years from this bunch and quit. I’ll do the same, not worth it to have a conversation on Albanians with people who’re not even Albanian.

 

[Fustan]

What about his nickname/family name, i think it originates from Ottoman Turkish dusman meaning enemy, he quoted me wikipedia that it derives from dussos and mani but i think it's far fetched, and it should come from Ottoman Turkish instead.

Dussos-mani is a dubious etymology but all Burre-bystis isn't? Dumbass crypto-serb moment. The fact that you're from presheva, asslicked aspurg like a dog, and propose wild theories for E-V13 makes so much sense now.

 

[Johane Derite]

What’s worse, it’s not like he hasn’t seen the link between Illyrian ‘vra’ (the beta was pronounced v in that time) but Matzinger hasn’t seen it yet probably like he didn’t see a ton of things few years back. Imagine Matzinger apologizing again for messing things up and Mr. Paranoia switches entirely to Bessi and Trojans.

Lol. No such "Illyrian. vra" exists. I have the direct hesychius sources right here and there is no such Illyrian word. If you see something on wiktionary or wikipedia, make sure to actually go check up that it actually exists in the primary source, otherwise you totally make a fool of yourself as you did with Shkupi.

 

[Fustan]

Don’t you see how I get along fine with J2b2 Fustan and R1a Dibran? Must be our EARLY IRON AGE heritage since our nicknames end with -an, as in -anor and -enor, you know, Dardano-Trojan supremacy.

And due to paranoia, you assume I’m like you 2 and hate Thracians. Ottomans, Thracians were a cool, brave, and interesting Paleo-Balkan population that definitely contributed to the formation of Albanians after being driven South and West from Slavs, Goths, Huns, Avars, etc.

Same here, I have no problem with Thracians. Cool people. But Albanians descending from them doesn't make much sense, and Matzinger also agrees, but I think these morons just had a divorce with Matzinger the other day and went to some other slavic linguists.

@Fustan, don’t use me so much man. I thought we were swe-sloughs.

I think you’re tired over the years from this bunch and quit. I’ll do the same, not worth it to have a conversation on Albanians with people who’re not even Albanian.

We are swe-sloughs for sure man. Yea I only came back somewhat because we have new samples and they confirmed what at least real Albanians back then always held to, that we descend from Illyrians. Now I'm basically just waiting for this Lazaridis paper, and anticipating for these absolute Serb-sperm brains to completely disappear from the forums once we find E-V13 and R-L23 in IA Albania.

 

[Hawk]

We are swe-sloughs for sure man. Yea I only came back somewhat because we have new samples and they confirmed what at least real Albanians back then always held to, that we descend from Illyrians. Now I'm basically just waiting for this Lazaridis paper, and anticipating for these absolute Serb-sperm brains to completely disappear from the forums once we find E-V13 and R-L23 in IA Albania.

Well, you are a retard who just shifts cards, i do expect E-V13 in Iron Age Albania as well, especially knowing that Albanian archaeologists acknowledge Channeled-Ware presence and the earliest being Late Bronze Age.

 

[Johane Derite]

E-V13 will appear in Albania since 1200BC if EV13 is a chanelled ware lineage, since this is when chanelled ware appears in Albania. But this means that the older J2b-l283 must have been speaking a different language to these invading EV13s.

Which Illyrian does the Albanian language descend from, the J2b-l283 Illyrian or the EV13 Illyrian?

 

[Hawk]

E-V13 will appear in Albania since 1200BC if EV13 is a chanelled ware lineage, since this is when chanelled ware appears in Albania. But this means that the older J2b-l283 must have been speaking a different language to these invading EV13s.

Which Illyrian does the Albanian language descend from, the J2b-l283 Illyrian or the EV13 Illyrian?

For him, using one-liners is easier, his corroded brain cannot consume more than picking up easy lines. We have been going through this several times.

 

[Dushman]

Same here, I have no problem with Thracians. Cool people. But Albanians descending from them doesn't make much sense, and Matzinger also agrees, but I think these morons just had a divorce with Matzinger the other day and went to some other slavic linguists.





We are swe-sloughs for sure man. Yea I only came back somewhat because we have new samples and they confirmed what at least real Albanians back then always held to, that we descend from Illyrians. Now I'm basically just waiting for this Lazaridis paper, and anticipating for these absolute Serb-sperm brains to completely disappear from the forums once we find E-V13 and R-L23 in IA Albania.

Can you believe these Trojans tried to demoralize me with an Early Iron Age origin of my clade?

Omg you came to Illyria in the 12th century BC only, what an immigrant. Meanwhile they settled Kosovo (not Rrafshi Dukagjinit/Metohija) no sooner than 300 years ago.

Anyway, I really hope the Daco-Thracian connection is also proven. What’s better than being representing the entire ancient Balkan population?

 

[Dushman]

A pre-Indo-European origin has been proposed for several Romanian substratum words e.g. balaur,^[23] brad ("fir-tree"). Duridanov has reconstructed *skuia as a Dacian word for fir-tree.

If ‘skuia’ is an acceptable reconstruction, then Dacian is excluded as Proto-Albanian since it has -sk?

Then we have the interesting link between Albanian, Dacian, and Illyrian through the city of Axiopa, a town and river (a tributary of the Danube) in eastern Romania called Cernavodă, which in Slavic means "black water". The same town in antiquity was known as Ἀξίοπα (Axiopa) or Ἀξιούπολις (Axioupolis) and its river as the Ἀξιός(Axios). The working assumption is that Axiopameant "black water" in Dacian, on the basis that Cernavodă is probably a calque of the ancient Dacian name.^[119] According to Georgiev, the likely IE root-word for Axios is *n̥-ks(e)y-no ("dark, black" cf. Avestan axsaena).^[120] On the basis of the known rules of formation of IE composite words, Axiopa would break down as axi = "black" and opa or upa = "water" in Dacian; the -polis element is ignored, as it is a Greek suffix meaning "city". The assumption is then validated by examining cognate placenames. There was another Balkan river also known in antiquity as Axios, whose source was in the Dacian-speaking region of Moesia: its modern Macedonianname is Crna reka (Slavic for "black river"): although it was in Dardania (Rep. of North Macedonia), a mainly Illyrian-speaking region. Georgiev considers this river-name to be of Daco-Moesian origin. The axi element is also validated by the older Greek name for the Black Sea, Ἄξεινος πόντος – Axeinos pontos.

Axi sounds pretty close to Albania ‘zi’ (black), while ‘opa’ like the Illyrian ‘apa’ (water). Makes one wonder what Apuli means, from the Dacian Apuli and Apulians/Iapygians.

 

[Illyria]

Is there an approximate time that Gheg and Tosk split, or only a range?

Apparently it was post-Roman and pre-Slavic, but was it pre-Gothic or post-Gothic?

 

[Excine]

@Johane Derite

It is really deceptive to cherry-pick one etymology offered by Georgiev, who clearly had a bias and has come under fire. Have you ever wondered if this etymology is accepted by international linguists? Hamp and others most certainly do not.
https://books.google.com/books?id=5pCBRsfJMv8C&pg=PA103

View attachment 13116

You chose an etymology that contemporary linguists do not support and are presenting it as solid proof. This does not appear to be objective research in any way.

 

[Fustan]

@Johane Derite

It is really deceptive to cherry-pick one etymology offered by Georgiev, who clearly had a bias and has come under fire. Have you ever wondered if this etymology is accepted by international linguists? Hamp and others most certainly do not.
https://books.google.com/books?id=5pCBRsfJMv8C&pg=PA103

View attachment 13116

You chose an etymology that contemporary linguists do not support and are presenting it as solid proof. This does not appear to be objective research in any way.

Nice catch. Quite deceptive indeed, but I bet Derite can't help it when he sees some slav talk about how we're Daco-Thracians, he probably starts drooling from it.

 

[mount123]

There is no doubt that sometimes in Albanian you find both Illyrian and Thracian words which have meaning, as for what does this implicate i am not a linguist. It's either an influence/folk etymologies or the old linguists had right on shared Thraco-Illyrian origin, maybe somewhere in Early Bronze Age? Who knows.

I am leaning more towards an Illyrian influence caused by the Illyrian remnant population groups that were incorporated or merged with whatever the other and I want to add main source of the later Proto-Albanian ethnos would be.

 

[Johane Derite]

@Johane Derite

It is really deceptive to cherry-pick one etymology offered by Georgiev, who clearly had a bias and has come under fire. Have you ever wondered if this etymology is accepted by international linguists? Hamp and others most certainly do not.
https://books.google.com/books?id=5pCBRsfJMv8C&pg=PA103

View attachment 13116

You chose an etymology that contemporary linguists do not support and are presenting it as solid proof. This does not appear to be objective research in any way.

No, what is deceptive is to present the quote "burre+bisht" is surely wrong as proof that this etymology is wrong since nobody here was arguing that -bistas meant bisht tail. This is indeed surely wrong. But the Greek Pistandros is literally a perfect fit. Andros means man, burrë means man.

As for your attachment, eupedia's attachment doesn't work, please upload to imgur and link here so i can see.

 

[Dushman]

Nice catch. Quite deceptive indeed, but I bet Derite can't help it when he sees some slav talk about how we're Daco-Thracians, he probably starts drooling from it.

He’s so disgustingly sneaky that he took advantage of the fact that I wrote βρα as vra instead of bra because during the time of Hesychius the letter ‘β’ was pronounced as ‘v’ and not ‘b’ in Greek.

 

[Dushman]

No, what is deceptive is to present the quote "burre+bisht" is surely wrong as proof that this etymology is wrong since nobody here was arguing that -bistas meant bisht tail. This is indeed surely wrong. But the Greek Pistandros is literally a perfect fit. Andros means man, burrë means man.

As for your attachment, eupedia's attachment doesn't work, please upload to imgur and link here so i can see.

Did you seriously just take the burrë+bisht as a serious answer? Lol, I’m done with you.

I was taking the pi$$ after reading your delusional theories. I even made sure to include the story of Burebistas “big tail” and you still didn’t get it? Hahahaha oh man who am I dealing with?

 

[Johane Derite]

Did you seriously just take the burrë+bisht as a serious answer? Lol, I’m done with you.

I was taking the pi$$ after reading your delusional theories. I even made sure to include the story of Burebistas “big tail” and you still didn’t get it? Hahahaha oh man who am I dealing with?

You have some serious issues. I was responding to Excine who posted this link as a "debunk".

Suffering from some paranoia it seems, thinking people are mentioning you when it has nothing to do with you.

 

[Johane Derite]

He’s so disgustingly sneaky that he took advantage of the fact that I wrote βρα as vra instead of bra because during the time of Hesychius the letter ‘β’ was pronounced as ‘v’ and not ‘b’ in Greek.

I am not sneaky, I tell the truth, unlike you. You have been proven wrong about every single one of your theories so far, and your only recourse is to try do the most banal insults. This is because of your upbringing, your parents didn't raise you right.

There is no Illyrian bra or vra in hesychius. It doesn't exist.

Just like you were sorely wrong about shkup, about aspetos, vëlla, etc.

Despite constantly embarassing yourself, you only seem to be getting braver. Typical dunning-kruger symptom.

 

[Dushman]

I couldn’t open the attachment so I thought you were referring to my joke about bisht. Coincidentally it seems linguists really brought bisht up. My bad.

But I’m not a lavire mashkull like you who’s been spamming pages and dodging lume, lule, and vlla.

Here you are sneaky again, disgustingly so, because ‘vra’ is indeed mentioned by Hesychius as an Eleian word (Thesprotia, Epirus), therefore thought to be an Illyrian word.

I know you’re quite resourceful but you’re doing this to manipulate other members pretending “there is no Illyrian” specifically but it’s in Epirotic, knowing very well how we real Albanians feel about Epirus.

You keep sneakily repeating Shkupi which I explained a thousand times but you do this to discredit me:

If Skodra - not Albanian -> no Albanians near Skodra, then Skupi not Albanian -> no Albanians near Skupi.

As for Aspetos it was a proposed etymology but if it’s indeed mentioned by Homer so many times then I take it back, as I’m not an Ottoman Ashkali lavire who cries under the Serbian leash.

As for vlla, it’s clearly a cognate to Epirotic ‘vra’ and not necessary to go to Proto-Indo-European reconstructions of swe-slough.

Facts: Illyrian etymologies (vra, sika, sybina, rinos), anthroponyms (delmatae, taulanti, enchelei), proven connection between Messapic and Albanian, proven same phonetic shifts, Albanian being established as not Thracian, many uncertainties on Dacian, etc.

Your delusional paranoid logic: Bessi/Dardani/Trojans/Dacians

 

[Johane Derite]

I couldn’t open the attachment so I thought you were referring to my joke about bisht. Coincidentally it seems linguists really brought bisht up. My bad.

But I’m not a lavire mashkull like you who’s been spamming pages and dodging lume, lule, and vlla.

Here you are sneaky again, disgustingly so, because ‘vra’ is indeed mentioned by Hesychius as an Eleian word (Thesprotia, Epirus), therefore thought to be an Illyrian word.

I know you’re quite resourceful but you’re doing this to manipulate other members pretending “there is no Illyrian” specifically but it’s in Epirotic, knowing very well how we real Albanians feel about Epirus.

What the hell... Again, you are demonstrating with every post that all your banal insults are projections about yourself.

You first claimed there was an "Illyrian". Bra/Vra mentioned in Hesychius, now when pressed to provide it you cannot and so you provide instead an Eleian word.

Eleians were not Illyrians.

Not only is this another horrible example of manipulative behaviour but you continue with the manipulative behaviour by claiming that Elis is in Thesprotia?

Elis is not even in Epirus, it is in the Peloponnese, so it has nothing to do with "Epirotic". You can't even lie well.