Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[Hawk]

Nope he is legit what he claims. He has made insanely bizarre posts about Kosovo and East Albanians having Ottoman ancestry since they supposedly look Middle Eastern. This reminds me of TakikateMalet/ShpataeMadhe's obsession with height, they both don't have these characteristics hence why they obsess over them so much.

Haven't spotted any kind of difference between East and West Albanians, except for East Albanians might have some more Thessalian-Greek affinities while West Albanians more Italian-like affinities, but the differences are marginal.

 

[broder]

Read Tropoja ne Breza te Ibrahim Malaj because he explains those relations between Bardhi, Luzha and Shipshani very well. He was a Tropojan himself so he should know better than me and you. Today’s Luzha used to inhabit Curraj te Poshtem, so them being the old Gashi is 100% confirmed. Even their relation to Toplane somewhat seems to check out, not to the fis but perhaps to some Anas families there - like Lumbardhi for example. E fella from Lumbardhi of Decan who also identify as Gash in Kosove did test as PH1751.

Don’t get tangled up on the Gashi i Gurit thing because most Gashi in Kosove claim be be as such, even families that don’t belong to the linages found in Tropoje.

 

[Dushman]

O Dema, Demush, irony is not your strongest point. Nor, sneaking as an E-V13 Albanian trying to disclaim us.

Dema is your Kosovar Ottoman compatriot which I despise and I want nothing to do with.

I’m glad I’m not from Kosovo and to have to share a country/passport/ethnicity with anti-Albanian Dardano-Trojan wannabes like you and this Neo-Illyrian snitch who runs to moderators to complain. No wonder why UÇK had only 5000 fighters out of 1 million male population.

I feel bad for the true Albanians of Kosovo having to live with separatists like you 2 and Derite and with people like mount who in this very thread openly insulted Albanians just like your blood compatriot Dema was constantly insulting Albanians and Illyrians as ignorant shepherds. No wonder you’re obsessed with your new Thracian identity.

You should remove the Albanian flag. You’re just a Kosovar at best, a geographic identity.

 

[Dushman]

Nope he is legit what he claims. He has made insanely bizarre posts about Kosovo and East Albanians having Ottoman ancestry since they supposedly look Middle Eastern. This reminds me of TakikateMalet/ShpataeMadhe's obsession with height, they both don't have these characteristics hence why they obsess over them so much.

Why don’t you copy/paste my post instead? Or trying to gather “Eastern Albanian” support by lying?

I said there’s definitely Anatolian blood in Kosovo, like Rita Ora, Dafina Zeqiri, Capital T, Butrint Imeri.

You got offended because I said Kosovo and East Albania has increased East Med and that is a fact. I myself have 23.9% East Med. Kosovo and East Albania have also an increase Baltic % in K13 and that is another fact. I have personally elevated Baltic because I am half from Montenegro.

Nice try though. Reminds me why I feel 0 connection to the “newborn” ethnicity. We are not the same and we will never be. And that is comforting for all of us.

 

[mount123]

Bardhi always seem to state that they are called Gashi i Gurit. It looks to me that Gashi i Gurit was divided between Bardhi and probably some sub-set of Botusha which the Gashjant J2b2-L283 from Kosova descend.



I think that the Bardhi's opinion is necessary in this kind of discussions as well, so we get their point of view. But i am pretty sure, i have encountered many times them explicitly stating that Bardhi are also called from Gashi i Gurit.

As per Rrenjet (not sure about Gjenetika) there is one E1b individual from Vanofc, Podujeve who explictely states to be Gash i Gurit but he belongs to >CTS9320>Y20805. As for proper >L241>PH2180 ones, there is one from Obiliq and another from Skenderaj. Since they did not explicitly state to be Bardhi or Gash i Gurit (at least according to the table underneath) they could perhaps be the latter affiliation or both Bardhi/i Gurit.

Vanofc, Podujevë	Gash i Gurit	E-V13>CTS9320>Y20805
Podujevë	Gash	E-V13>CTS9320>Y20805
Stubëll e Epërme, Gjilan	Gash	E-V13>CTS9320>Z17107
Budakovë, Suharekë	Gash	E-V13>FGC33625>Y93102
Skivjan, Gjakovë	Gash-Shipshan	E-V13>L241>PH2180
Gegaj, Tropojë	Gash-Shipshan	E-V13>L241>PH2180
Kasaj, Tropojë	Gash-Shipshan	E-V13>L241>PH2180
Kamenicë, Tropojë	Gash-Shipshan	E-V13>L241>PH2180
Tropojë	Gash-Shipshan	E-V13>L241>PH2180
Kuçanë, Tropojë	Gash-Shipshan	E-V13>L241>PH2180
Babinë, Tropojë	Gash-Bardhaj	E-V13>L241>PH2180
Babinë, Tropojë	Gash-Bardhaj	E-V13>L241>PH2180
Myhejan, Tropojë	Gash-Bardhaj	E-V13>L241>PH2180
Llokoshiq, Obiliq	Gash	E-V13>L241>PH2180
Rrezallë, Skënderaj	Gash	E-V13>L241>PH2180

 

[Hawk]

As per Rrenjet (not sure about Gjenetika) there is one E1b individual from Vanofc, Podujeve who explictely states to be Gash i Gurit but he belongs to >CTS9320>Y20805. As for proper >L241>PH2180 ones, there is one from Obiliq and another from Skenderaj. Since they did not explicitly state to be Bardhi or Gash i Gurit (at least according to the table underneath) they could perhaps be the latter affiliation or both Bardhi/i Gurit.

Vanofc, Podujevë	Gash i Gurit	E-V13>CTS9320>Y20805
Podujevë	Gash	E-V13>CTS9320>Y20805
Stubëll e Epërme, Gjilan	Gash	E-V13>CTS9320>Z17107
Budakovë, Suharekë	Gash	E-V13>FGC33625>Y93102
Skivjan, Gjakovë	Gash-Shipshan	E-V13>L241>PH2180
Gegaj, Tropojë	Gash-Shipshan	E-V13>L241>PH2180
Kasaj, Tropojë	Gash-Shipshan	E-V13>L241>PH2180
Kamenicë, Tropojë	Gash-Shipshan	E-V13>L241>PH2180
Tropojë	Gash-Shipshan	E-V13>L241>PH2180
Kuçanë, Tropojë	Gash-Shipshan	E-V13>L241>PH2180
Babinë, Tropojë	Gash-Bardhaj	E-V13>L241>PH2180
Babinë, Tropojë	Gash-Bardhaj	E-V13>L241>PH2180
Myhejan, Tropojë	Gash-Bardhaj	E-V13>L241>PH2180
Llokoshiq, Obiliq	Gash	E-V13>L241>PH2180
Rrezallë, Skënderaj	Gash	E-V13>L241>PH2180

Gashi i Gurit seems to me was a territorial designation, since this territory has some rocky mountains (saw one pic, and it looks epic for hiking), perhaps they wanted to denominate as separation from poorer/different Shipshan region (Bardhi Aga intentionally settled Shipshan ancestor here, since he was a Catholic shepherd who took his daughter for marriage). Bardhi and Botusha refer to themselves as Gashi i Gurit, i checked, and even Gashi i Gurit from Kosova says the same, Gashi i Gurit is divided between Bardhi and Luzha/Botusha (though they refer with some different name which i cannot remember now, i cannot find that post in facebook anymore). To me this makes sense since i encountered both of them Bardhi and Gashi i Gurit from Kosove referring as such to themselves.

As far as Gashi as a name, its origin, and how Bardhi, Luzha.Botusha, Shipshan adopted and from where, that is something i have no idea, quite a lot of possible explanations.

 

[Fustan]

Dema is your Kosovar Ottoman compatriot which I despise and I want nothing to do with.

I’m glad I’m not from Kosovo and to have to share a country/passport/ethnicity with anti-Albanian Dardano-Trojan wannabes like you and this Neo-Illyrian snitch who runs to moderators to complain. No wonder why UÇK had only 5000 fighters out of 1 million male population.

I feel bad for the true Albanians of Kosovo having to live with separatists like you 2 and Derite and with people like mount who in this very thread openly insulted Albanians just like your blood compatriot Dema was constantly insulting Albanians and Illyrians as ignorant shepherds. No wonder you’re obsessed with your new Thracian identity.

You should remove the Albanian flag. You’re just a Kosovar at best, a geographic identity.

Dema's paternal line is Serbian so it makes sense that he hates Albanians. He is J2b1 and Serbian ethnographers recorded that his village were Serbs who became Albanized.

 

[mount123]

Gashi i Gurit seems to me was a territorial designation, since this territory has some rocky mountains (saw one pic, and it looks epic for hiking), perhaps they wanted to denominate as separation from poorer/different Shipshan region (Bardhi Aga intentionally settled Shipshan ancestor here, since he was a Catholic shepherd who took his daughter for marriage). Bardhi and Botusha refer to themselves as Gashi i Gurit, i checked, and even Gashi i Gurit from Kosova says the same, Gashi i Gurit is divided between Bardhi and Luzha/Botusha (though they refer with some different name which i cannot remember now, i cannot find that post in facebook anymore). To me this makes sense since i encountered both of them Bardhi and Gashi i Gurit from Kosove referring as such to themselves.

As far as Gashi as a name, its origin, and how Bardhi, Luzha.Botusha, Shipshan adopted and from where, that is something i have no idea, quite a lot of possible explanations.

A territorial designation could certainly be the case. Yep, looks great for hiking, I have never been there apart from having been in Malesia Gjakoves, the eastern part.

I found a Facebook page called Gasht e Gurit Kosovë and this was in one of their posts: "Fisi Gash, ndahet në Gashin e Gurit (ndryshe njihet edhe me këto emra: Gashi i Gurit të Bardhë i Bardhanë ose Gashi i Bardhë) dhe Gashi i Xërxës".

 

[Dushman]

Dema's paternal line is Serbian so it makes sense that he hates Albanians. He is J2b1 and Serbian ethnographers recorded that his village were Serbs who became Albanized.

Serbian is a compliment. He’s an Ottoman separatist like some others here.

Serbs may be our “enemies” (whatever that means in 2022) but they have national and personal pride and guts. We have nothing in common with the people that self identify as Kosovars or these Trojans from Gava.

 

[enter_tain]

I noticed in September some of these people want to give a lecture on "Balkan Indo-European" and Albanian. These academics are starting to become cringe as ****.

Every linguistic analysis done has shown Albanian to be closest to Germanic in an Albano-Germanic group, or even Slavic (I saw one that put Slovenian above Romanian in terms of proximity).

"In 1995, Taylor, Ringe and Warnow, using quantitative linguistic techniques, found that Albanian appears to comprise a "subgroup with Germanic"."

Trying to fit Albanian in with Greek or other languages because of their geographical proximity is like trying to fit Tuscan/Latin or Swedish/Finish together. It's just intellectual laziness. They have almost nothing in common other than being IE languages, and Proto-Illyrians and Proto-Greeks had nothing in common other than being IE speaking peoples.

I've constantly pointed how Greeks/Albanians cluster together countless times, but that's genetically, not linguistically.

 

[Johane Derite]

"In 1995, Taylor, Ringe and Warnow, using quantitative linguistic techniques, found that Albanian appears to comprise a "subgroup with Germanic"."

As usual you're out here lying and trying to push some nonsense. Here is the literal next sentence that you manipulatively removed. Not one single linguist argues for an Albano-Germanic branch:



"In 1995, Taylor, Ringe and Warnow, using quantitative linguistic techniques, found that Albanian appears to comprise a "subgroup with Germanic". However, they argued that this fact is hardly significant, as Albanian has lost much of its original vocabulary and morphology, and so this "apparently close connection to Germanic rests on only a couple of lexical cognates – hardly any evidence at all"

Source: Ann Taylor; Donald Ringe; Tandy Warnow (2000). "Character based reconstruction of a linguistic cladogram". In John Charles Smith; Delia Bentley (eds.). General issues and non-Germanic Languages. Historical Linguistics 1995. Selected papers from the 12th International Conference on Historical Linguistics, Manchester, August 1995. Vol. 1. Amsterdam: John Benjamins Publishing. p. 400

 

[Johane Derite]

As usual you're out here lying and trying to push some nonsense. Here is the literal next sentence that you manipulatively removed. Not one single linguist argues for an Albano-Germanic branch:



"In 1995, Taylor, Ringe and Warnow, using quantitative linguistic techniques, found that Albanian appears to comprise a "subgroup with Germanic". However, they argued that this fact is hardly significant, as Albanian has lost much of its original vocabulary and morphology, and so this "apparently close connection to Germanic rests on only a couple of lexical cognates – hardly any evidence at all"

Source: Ann Taylor; Donald Ringe; Tandy Warnow (2000). "Character based reconstruction of a linguistic cladogram". In John Charles Smith; Delia Bentley (eds.). General issues and non-Germanic Languages. Historical Linguistics 1995. Selected papers from the 12th International Conference on Historical Linguistics, Manchester, August 1995. Vol. 1. Amsterdam: John Benjamins Publishing. p. 400

The relations between Albanian and Greek are not only lexical, but also very specific grammatical constructions are shared with only Greek and Armenian, this is why linguists today argue that Albanian is part of a group with Greek and Armenian:

 

[Dushman]

Which means we have a Helleno-Phrygo-Armeno-Trojano-Dardano-Makedono-Thraco-Daco-Albano branch? All unrelated to Illyrian and Messapian of course.

 

[Riverman]

Which means we have a Helleno-Phrygo-Armeno-Trojano-Dardano-Makedono-Thraco-Daco-Albano branch? All unrelated to Illyrian and Messapian of course.

I'd say its possible there was a linguistic continuum of more distantly related language groups:
Italo-Celtic <-> Illyrian <-> Thracian-Dacian <-> Paeonian <-> Brygi-Phrygian <-> Hellenic/Greek <-> Armenian

If assuming such or a similar continuum, it would explain relationships
a) in different directions
b) of Albanians towards different language groups, if assuming a more intermediate position for their source group - e.g. between Illyrian and Thracian. Thracian though is likely to have been closer related to Baltoslavic, which would align well with the possible Kostany-F?zesabony-Otomani influence. Because the Kostany settlers were from Mierzanowice, this might have been part of the Baltoslavic origin group.

 

[broder]

On the Begolli part, as far as I know they actually descend from the Dukagjini family. One of the Leka’s son, Mahmut Pasha the first, was the founder of the Sanjak of Peja, from who descend the person who is believed to be the progenitor of the Begolli family, Mere Huseyin Pasha, who was also the grand vizier of the Ottoman Empire. The other sons of Leke were Dukaginzade Ahmed Pasha(Progon Dukagjini) who was also a grand vezir and Mehmet Dukagjini.

Begolli doesn’t seem to have been Dukagjin. Nor Berishe or Gash.

 

[enter_tain]

As usual you're out here lying and trying to push some nonsense. Here is the literal next sentence that you manipulatively removed. Not one single linguist argues for an Albano-Germanic branch:



"In 1995, Taylor, Ringe and Warnow, using quantitative linguistic techniques, found that Albanian appears to comprise a "subgroup with Germanic". However, they argued that this fact is hardly significant, as Albanian has lost much of its original vocabulary and morphology, and so this "apparently close connection to Germanic rests on only a couple of lexical cognates – hardly any evidence at all"

Source: Ann Taylor; Donald Ringe; Tandy Warnow (2000). "Character based reconstruction of a linguistic cladogram". In John Charles Smith; Delia Bentley (eds.). General issues and non-Germanic Languages. Historical Linguistics 1995. Selected papers from the 12th International Conference on Historical Linguistics, Manchester, August 1995. Vol. 1. Amsterdam: John Benjamins Publishing. p. 400

How am I lying you moron? Albanian has lost most of its original vocabulary. Most of the language is Latin in origin. Everyone knows that. That's one of the reasons why it's been hard to classify it.

I'm not talking about modern Albanian, hence their line "as Albanian has lost much of its original vocabulary and morphology", but the language that it descends from in 2-3000 BC. When you take a look at the native cognates that remain it's clearly much closer to Germanic than Greek or Armenian or whatever.

And it's not just those guys. Every quantitative model they use arrives at this conclusion

• The first to separate was Anatolian, about 4000 BC.
• Tocharian followed at about 3500 BC.
• Shortly thereafter, about 3250, Proto-Italo-Celtic (western Indo-European) separated, becoming Proto-Italic and Proto-Celtic at about 2500 BC.
• At about 3000, Proto-Albano-Germanic separated, becoming Albanian and Proto-Germanic at about 2000.
• At about 3000 Proto-Greco-Armenian (southern Indo-European) divided, becoming Proto-Greek and Proto-Armenian at about 1800.
• Balto-Slavic appeared about 2500, dividing into Proto-Baltic and Proto-Slavic at about 1000.
• Finally, Proto-Indo-European became Proto-Indo-Iranian (eastern Indo-European) at about 225

 

[enter_tain]

Since the southern paper is about to come out soon, I made an admixture model for every time period. I don't know what samples they have tbh, I've heard Bronze, Iron Age, etc...

But this is where I expect all of them to line up by era

The Montenegro sample we got is undoubtedly the closest thing we have to a Proto-Albanian. Iron Age Illyrians will be similar to him but without the Imperial Roman Admixture. So more west/north-west.

 

[Johane Derite]

And it's not just those guys. Every quantitative model they use arrives at this conclusion

Oh yeah? go ahead and enlighten us then, show us all these authors and linguists that are arguing for Albano-Germanic.

Everyone here is curious and waiting for the names of "everyone" and "every".

 

[enter_tain]

Oh yeah?������ go ahead and enlighten us then, show us all these authors and linguists that are arguing for Albano-Germanic.
Everyone here is curious and waiting for the names of "everyone" and "every".

Asshat you just quoted some of them yourself. The other ones I posted are

PERFECT PHYLOGENETIC NETWORKS: A NEW METHODOLOGY FORRECONSTRUCTING THE EVOLUTIONARY HISTORY OF NATURALLANGUAGESLUAY NAKHLEH DON RINGE TANDY WARNOWRice University University of University of TexasPennsylvania

These are not like your boyfriend Matzinger who pulls crap out of your ass, and you only quote him in German so no one understands anything.

Anytime researchers do a quantitative model Albanian and Germanic get grouped together. The only exception was one where Slovenian came 1st out of a limited group of comparisons, but again Balto-Slavic and Germanic are grouped together as well.

And they get the often grouped Italo-Celtic and Greco-Armenian from their model as well

• The first to separate was Anatolian, about 4000 BC.
• Tocharian followed at about 3500 BC.
• Shortly thereafter, about 3250, Proto-Italo-Celtic (western Indo-European) separated, becoming Proto-Italic and Proto-Celtic at about 2500 BC.
• At about 3000, Proto-Albano-Germanic separated, becoming Albanian and Proto-Germanic at about 2000.
• At about 3000 Proto-Greco-Armenian (southern Indo-European) divided, becoming Proto-Greek and Proto-Armenian at about 1800.
• Balto-Slavic appeared about 2500, dividing into Proto-Baltic and Proto-Slavic at about 1000.
• Finally, Proto-Indo-European became Proto-Indo-Iranian (eastern Indo-European) at about 2250.

 

[Johane Derite]

Asshat you just quoted some of them yourself. The other ones I posted are

PERFECT PHYLOGENETIC NETWORKS: A NEW METHODOLOGY FORRECONSTRUCTING THE EVOLUTIONARY HISTORY OF NATURALLANGUAGESLUAY NAKHLEH DON RINGE TANDY WARNOWRice University University of University of TexasPennsylvania

These are not like your boyfriend Matzinger who pulls crap out of your ass, and you only quote him in German so no one understands anything.

Anytime researchers do a quantitative model Albanian and Germanic get grouped together. The only exception was one where Slovenian came 1st out of a limited group of comparisons, but again Balto-Slavic and Germanic are grouped together as well.

And they get the often grouped Italo-Celtic and Greco-Armenian from their model as well

• The first to separate was Anatolian, about 4000 BC.
• Tocharian followed at about 3500 BC.
• Shortly thereafter, about 3250, Proto-Italo-Celtic (western Indo-European) separated, becoming Proto-Italic and Proto-Celtic at about 2500 BC.
• At about 3000, Proto-Albano-Germanic separated, becoming Albanian and Proto-Germanic at about 2000.
• At about 3000 Proto-Greco-Armenian (southern Indo-European) divided, becoming Proto-Greek and Proto-Armenian at about 1800.
• Balto-Slavic appeared about 2500, dividing into Proto-Baltic and Proto-Slavic at about 1000.
• Finally, Proto-Indo-European became Proto-Indo-Iranian (eastern Indo-European) at about 2250.

Whats with the crying? Contain yourself, don't behave like some barbarian 4 year old and throw tantrums.

Everyone here is still waiting. The paper you just linked again is by TANDY WARNOW, as in the same WARNOW from Warnow and Ringe who explictly writes that Albanian cannot be conencted with Albano-Germanic since its an artefact of incomplete data.

So again, we are waiting for some names of authors that are arguing FOR Albano-Germanic, since Warnow is not