Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

enter_tain said:
Noel Malcolm is not a linguist. He's a journalist. You want to quote some drug dealers too?
Click to expand...

Keep going, show everybody here exactly what a low order of creature you are.

Equating Noel Malcolm with a drug dealer is so pathetically desperate.

You must have gotten very mad that your stupid wikipedia linked romanian linguist Mihaescu and his argument from the 50s is not valid in the slightest and not accepted as serious by anybody in academia.

As for Noel Malcolm, here is something from your beloved wikipedia about who he is:


He studied history at Peterhouse, Cambridge, between 1974 and 1978. He received his PhD in history while he was at Trinity College, Cambridge.

Malcolm was a Fellow and college lecturer at Gonville and Caius College, Cambridge, from 1981 to 1988.

He was knighted in the 2014 New Year Honours for services to scholarship, journalism, and European history.

If you had five lifetimes you wouldn't be able to achieve what he has done, because you are a very low and irrelevant nobody. You can keep yapping all you want, nobody respects your yapping.
 
Johane Derite said:
Keep going, show everybody here exactly what a low order of creature you are.
Equating Noel Malcolm with a drug dealer is so pathetically desperate.
You must have gotten very mad that your stupid wikipedia linked romanian linguist Mihaescu and his argument from the 50s is not valid in the slightest and not accepted as serious by anybody in academia.
As for Noel Malcolm, here is something from your beloved wikipedia about who he is:
He studied history at Peterhouse, Cambridge, between 1974 and 1978. He received his PhD in history while he was at Trinity College, Cambridge.
Malcolm was a Fellow and college lecturer at Gonville and Caius College, Cambridge, from 1981 to 1988.
He was knighted in the 2014 New Year Honours for services to scholarship, journalism, and European history.
If you had five lifetimes you wouldn't be able to achieve what he has done, because you are a very low and irrelevant nobody. You can keep yapping all you want, nobody respects your yapping.
Click to expand...

I'm equating him with someone who doesn't have a degree in linguistics and that's not his field.

The people I'm quoting you are actual linguists, not journalists.
 
mount123 said:
My paternal line is f'ing Illyrian... the African answer was just at the same cognitive level as your weird answer to my phenotype comment. Sure but I don't think these E1b people were as fair as PIE Illyrians or had in any way similar features... I mean would be obscure if they did. Also just looking at that turban like garnment of those Berisha/Kelmendi/Sopi whatever guys in Rugova and their tan and features...yikes.
Click to expand...

Indeed. Chances are they didn't. At least those in the Balkans.

Illyrian Iapodian in K13, closer to North Euros than to MENA's
Distance to:I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp
22.35843912German
26.77410316Scottish
30.37995885Danish
32.95071168Algerian
41.36360840Russian
43.87628403Syrian
48.73961941Lebanese_Druze





Iron Age Thracian in K13, closer to MENA's than NE's.
Distance to:I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp
22.59103362Algerian
33.04508284Syrian
36.74405938Lebanese_Druze
40.89445928German
45.71078866Scottish
49.24464742Danish
55.60052068Russian


Albanians are autosomally better modelled as mainly Iron Age Thracians + obvious Slavic input (Albanians get higher Baltic than Illyrians despite being more Southern and less Steppe in comparison, so certainly this is Slavic derived). Illyrians were North Italian-like. Illyrian autosomal element seems to pop up in calculations involving Ghegs.

Distance to:I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp
5.12415847French_Provence
5.43453770Italian_Veneto
5.56891372Italian_Piedmont
6.91223553Italian_Friuli
7.23040801Italian_Liguria
7.50322597Italian_Trentino
7.63498527Italian_Lombardy
7.66717679Italian_Emilia
7.95719800Italian_Aosta_Valley
8.92562603Swiss_Italian
9.82746661Portuguese
9.86850039Spanish_Extremadura
10.24896092Italian_Tuscany
10.95161175Spanish_Galicia
11.07736882Swiss_French
11.18624602Austrian_Tyrol
11.19579385Spanish_Catalonia
11.31314722Spanish_Murcia
11.36757230Spanish_Andalusia
11.75111910Italian_Romagna
11.85622200Spanish_Castile-León
12.05249767Spanish_Valencia
12.38313369Italian_Umbria
12.63928795Spanish_Castilla-La_Mancha
12.65749975French_South
 
Well, in absence of South Illyrian genomes, i guess the algorithm automatically picks up Iron Age Bulgarian instead of Dalmatian. I am like sure of this. Probably the ancient Balkans was more divided in an horizontal axum as well, having more Mediterranean to the South and more Steppe to the North. On a vertical axum it was the slight WHG admixture which differed the West Balkans from deeper South/East Balkans.

Realistically i expect South Illyrian + Thracian + Greek (more Mediterranean) and North Illyrian + Danubian Daco-Moesians and last Slavic admixture among Albanians.
 
Hawk said:
Well, in absence of South Illyrian genomes, i guess the algorithm automatically picks up Iron Age Bulgarian instead of Dalmatian. I am like sure of this. Probably the ancient Balkans was more divided in an horizontal axum as well, having more Mediterranean to the South and more Steppe to the North. On a vertical axum it was the slight WHG admixture which differed the West Balkans from deeper South/East Balkans.

Realistically i expect South Illyrian + Thracian + Greek (more Mediterranean) and North Illyrian + Danubian Daco-Moesians and last Slavic admixture among Albanians.
Click to expand...

Well if something more Southern than Thracians enters the picture, like Mycenean like then Albanians can be modelled more after the Dalmatian Illyrian core.

Also we see know that V13 was the premier Byzantine marker (majority of Avar V13 are Byzantines, so far 12/20, maybe few more). So a number of Albanian V13 could have ended up there in Late Antiquity that way too.
 
Hawk said:
Well, in absence of South Illyrian genomes, i guess the algorithm automatically picks up Iron Age Bulgarian instead of Dalmatian. I am like sure of this. Probably the ancient Balkans was more divided in an horizontal axum as well, having more Mediterranean to the South and more Steppe to the North. On a vertical axum it was the slight WHG admixture which differed the West Balkans from deeper South/East Balkans.

Realistically i expect South Illyrian + Thracian + Greek (more Mediterranean) and North Illyrian + Danubian Daco-Moesians and last Slavic admixture among Albanians.
Click to expand...


Dalmatians and Liburnians spoke the same language ( another clue that Liburnia controlled Dalmatia in the late bronze and early iron age )...........it ranged from Northern Liburnia to Northern Montenegro .............it did not include Dubrovnik city

It was spoken until about 1900 ......it was Illyrian based but developed Latin syntax over time after the Great illyrian revolt
Vegliot, a northern dialect of Dalmatian, spoken in the island of Veglia, now called Krk in Croatian to Kotor Montenegro.
It does not resemble Messapic

After the romans disappeared , it had about 700 years of isolation before Venetian moved in around 1200AD .............it started taking in many Venetian language words etc until 1900 when the langauge disappeared

The "illyrian" spoken in Dubrovnik developed into a different isolated stream................plus Dubrovnik was never under Venice
 
The evidence for a Latinised Illyrian people in North Albania can be found in placenames like:


Kashnjet <- Castanetum
Kallmet <- Calametum
Qerret <- Ceretum
Laç <- Latio
Vinjall <- Vinealis


Etc.


But what happened to these Latin speaking Illyrians?


There are indications that at least some of these Illyrians were assimilated by the Proto-Albanians.


This might mean Central Ghegs and Northwest Ghegs possibly have an Illyrian component not present in Tosks and Northeast Ghegs.


FJzbThOXMAAT7DN

FJzbU9YXIAgakrB
 
I've long wondered about the etymology of "Gegë".


Some have theorised origin from Greek "Gregor" or "Gigas" (Giants) but these are not convincing.


Can there be any relation to Albanian. Gogë, a term used by Albanians to denote Latin speaking Vlachs?


Gogës were claimed by Çabej to appear in the ethnographic record of North Albania as an old tribe.


Gogënisht / Gogërisht is one of the terms for the Vlach language in Albanian.


Is there a possibility that "Gegë" was a similar term to Gogë that originally referred to those Latin speaking Illyrians?


Might this explain the traditional ethnographic division between Gegë-proper tribes and Lekë and Malësor tribes (although all three of these today are generally lumped in under the Gegë label)


The Gegë proper tribes fall in the regions where we see the Latin toponyms and don't have migration myths, while both the Malësors and Lekë tribes have traditions of migration



FJzhJcmXIAU-LHQ
 
"Po të pyesim pleq të ndryshëm nga Malësia e Lezhës, nga Bajrakët e Ohrit, nga Mirdita, nga Berisha, nga Merturi i Gurit, për prejardhjen e tyne, të gjithë kanë me t'u përgjegjë në një mënyrë:

Na nuk jemi anas, por jemi të ardhun; këtu në këtë vend banonte një popullsi tjetër."

EgN2OkUWsAIh4oi
 
Johane Derite said:
"Po të pyesim pleq të ndryshëm nga Malësia e Lezhës, nga Bajrakët e Ohrit, nga Mirdita, nga Berisha, nga Merturi i Gurit, për prejardhjen e tyne, të gjithë kanë me t'u përgjegjë në një mënyrë:

Na nuk jemi anas, por jemi të ardhun; këtu në këtë vend banonte një popullsi tjetër."

EgN2OkUWsAIh4oi
Click to expand...

English translation of some important parts:

"" If we ask the elders of the highlands of Lezha, the tribes of Ohrid, Mirdita, Berisha, Merturi i Gurit, about their origins, they will all answer you in the same way:

'We are not natives, we are migrants, another people lived here.'


The migrants tell us with full conviction where they came from. They all say the same thing:


'We came from the East, our home was the Plain of Dukagjin, as it's known by the people, or the Plain of Metohia as it's known in literature. That was our home which we left due to war, and retreated into the mountains."
 
Dardanians were also Latinized by the Romans too, not only the Illyrians from Illyria Proper

In both Illyria and Dardania, there were Latinized Illyrians, as well as Non-Latinized Illyrian rebels, living in the mountains, avoiding Roman rule the best they could

So if these linguists want to argue that Albania has Latin toponyms, and that the Proto-Albanian population couldn't have come from there, then why don't they apply that logic for Dardania? Dardania has plenty of Latin toponyms, so Proto-Albanians couldn't have come from Dardania either?

"This might mean Central Ghegs and Northwest Ghegs possibly have an Illyrian component not present in Tosks and Northeast Ghegs."

This is false, North-East Ghegs have plenty of the J2b2 Illyrian component, Kukes is 48% J2b2, Tropoja is a J2b2 hotspot as well, Gjakove and Prishtine have high J2b2, so North East Ghegs have a significant amount of Illyrian genes. Tosks have J2b2 in Laberia and near the coast, and an Arbereshe was found to be J2b2 as well, so the Illyrian component is found not only in Central and North West Ghegs, but all over Albanian lands. The oldest J2b2 branch, at 3200ybp, also belongs to a Tosk from Korca.

Trying to attribute Illyrian J2b2-Z638 as a purely Romanized, non-Albanoid haplogroup, is jumping to conclusions without enough evidence. We know the Proto-Albanian language was likely formed above the Jiricek Line, where this Illyrian component, happens to be at it's highest frequencies, in Malsi, Kosova, and other Northern Albanians above the Drin River, with hotspots in Mirdite/Mat/Diber, the Arber stronghold. Dukagjin royal family are proven to be J2b2, calling one of the oldest royal Albanian families, non-Albanoid, sounds insane to me. We shouldn't be quick to call J2b2 a Romanized lineage, when it could very well be a non-Romanized lineage. We don't have proof that the Latin toponyms in Albania are from J2b2 people. What if the R1b/J2a/G2 Romans brought these toponyms, to J2b2 Non-Romanized Illyrians?

We need linguists who also are also proficient in genealogy, and Albanian Gheg, to analyze the Albanian language. We may not have much material on what the ancient Balkan people spoke, which gives linguists not much to work with, so their best-guessed assumptions or theories, are just that, and not enough to be conclusive. But we do have solid DNA evidence, which can help conclude the origins of Albanian language.
 
Illyria said:
Dardanians were also Latinized by the Romans too, not only the Illyrians from Illyria Proper

In both Illyria and Dardania, there were Latinized Illyrians, as well as Non-Latinized Illyrian rebels, living in the mountains, avoiding Roman rule the best they could

So if these linguists want to argue that Albania has Latin toponyms, and that the Proto-Albanian population couldn't have come from there, then why don't they apply that logic for Dardania? Dardania has plenty of Latin toponyms, so Proto-Albanians couldn't have come from Dardania either?

"This might mean Central Ghegs and Northwest Ghegs possibly have an Illyrian component not present in Tosks and Northeast Ghegs."

This is false, North-East Ghegs have plenty of the J2b2 Illyrian component, Kukes is 48% J2b2, Tropoja is a J2b2 hotspot as well, Gjakove and Prishtine have high J2b2, so North East Ghegs have a significant amount of Illyrian genes. Tosks have J2b2 in Laberia and near the coast, and an Arbereshe was found to be J2b2 as well, so the Illyrian component is found not only in Central and North West Ghegs, but all over Albanian lands. The oldest J2b2 branch, at 3200ybp, also belongs to a Tosk from Korca.

Trying to attribute Illyrian J2b2-Z638 as a purely Romanized, non-Albanoid haplogroup, is jumping to conclusions without enough evidence. We know the Proto-Albanian language was likely formed above the Jiricek Line, where this Illyrian component, happens to be at it's highest frequencies, in Malsi, Kosova, and other Northern Albanians above the Drin River, with hotspots in Mirdite/Mat/Diber, the Arber stronghold. Dukagjin royal family are proven to be J2b2, calling one of the oldest royal Albanian families, non-Albanoid, sounds insane to me. We shouldn't be quick to call J2b2 a Romanized lineage, when it could very well be a non-Romanized lineage. We don't have proof that the Latin toponyms in Albania are from J2b2 people. What if the R1b/J2a/G2 Romans brought these toponyms, to J2b2 Non-Romanized Illyrians?

We need linguists who also are also proficient in genealogy, and Albanian Gheg, to analyze the Albanian language. We may not have much material on what the ancient Balkan people spoke, which gives linguists not much to work with, so their best-guessed assumptions or theories, are just that, and not enough to be conclusive. But we do have solid DNA evidence, which can help conclude the origins of Albanian language.
Click to expand...

That was in reference to possible autosomal signal, there have been many bottle neck events so i doubt such a signal would be clear in such a small region only paternally. I'm not singling out L283, althought it does partially fit. There are probably Ev13 branches that also might fit such an origin, maybe even mine.

The latinisation of dardania is accepted as paetial origin of the proto-vlachs, but the latin toponyms of north albania areof the dalmatian variety, and extend into remote regions in drin valley, fan valley, etc.
 
Aspurg said:
Indeed. Chances are they didn't. At least those in the Balkans.

Illyrian Iapodian in K13, closer to North Euros than to MENA's
Distance to:I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp
22.35843912German
26.77410316Scottish
30.37995885Danish
32.95071168Algerian
41.36360840Russian
43.87628403Syrian
48.73961941Lebanese_Druze





Iron Age Thracian in K13, closer to MENA's than NE's.
Distance to:I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp
22.59103362Algerian
33.04508284Syrian
36.74405938Lebanese_Druze
40.89445928German
45.71078866Scottish
49.24464742Danish
55.60052068Russian


Albanians are autosomally better modelled as mainly Iron Age Thracians + obvious Slavic input (Albanians get higher Baltic than Illyrians despite being more Southern and less Steppe in comparison, so certainly this is Slavic derived). Illyrians were North Italian-like. Illyrian autosomal element seems to pop up in calculations involving Ghegs.

Distance to:I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp
5.12415847French_Provence
5.43453770Italian_Veneto
5.56891372Italian_Piedmont
6.91223553Italian_Friuli
7.23040801Italian_Liguria
7.50322597Italian_Trentino
7.63498527Italian_Lombardy
7.66717679Italian_Emilia
7.95719800Italian_Aosta_Valley
8.92562603Swiss_Italian
9.82746661Portuguese
9.86850039Spanish_Extremadura
10.24896092Italian_Tuscany
10.95161175Spanish_Galicia
11.07736882Swiss_French
11.18624602Austrian_Tyrol
11.19579385Spanish_Catalonia
11.31314722Spanish_Murcia
11.36757230Spanish_Andalusia
11.75111910Italian_Romagna
11.85622200Spanish_Castile-León
12.05249767Spanish_Valencia
12.38313369Italian_Umbria
12.63928795Spanish_Castilla-La_Mancha
12.65749975French_South
Click to expand...

Illyrian in Croatia and Slovenia are not all Illyrians. Of course you know that, but want to keep bullshitting. We still have no Z638 Illyrians.

And we went over this. Albanians are still closer to Croatian Iron Age dude, than they are to Bulgarian Iron Age, which they have almost nothing to do with.
 
Johane Derite said:
The evidence for a Latinised Illyrian people in North Albania can be found in placenames like:


Kashnjet <- Castanetum
Kallmet <- Calametum
Qerret <- Ceretum
Laç <- Latio
Vinjall <- Vinealis


Etc.


But what happened to these Latin speaking Illyrians?


There are indications that at least some of these Illyrians were assimilated by the Proto-Albanians.


This might mean Central Ghegs and Northwest Ghegs possibly have an Illyrian component not present in Tosks and Northeast Ghegs.


FJzbThOXMAAT7DN

FJzbU9YXIAgakrB
Click to expand...

Can someone ban this dude from posting random pictures. It's spamming all these threads, no one is reading it, and he even misquotes the people in the actual books to lie.
 
enter_tain said:
Illyrian in Croatia and Slovenia are not all Illyrians. Of course you know that, but want to keep bullshitting. We still have no Z638 Illyrians.

.
Click to expand...

yes they are from late bronze-age to early iron-age when they became celtinized due to celts moving south from central and southern Germany
 
Aspurg said:
Albanians are autosomally better modelled as mainly Iron Age Thracians + obvious Slavic input
Click to expand...

And by the way. Here is your suggestion. Add some "Ukranian-like" DNA to Iron Age Thracians, and you end up in no man's land. Nothing to do with Albanians.

scniWah.png


Bulgarian Iron Age Thracians are far too eastern shifted already. You add more Slavic DNA, and that you get absolutely nothing.

You lost. Give it up. Albanians are obviously some "Mycenean-like" DNA + Slavic.
 
We've seen Greeks and Albanians cluster for a reason. These Dacian/Thracian detractors are nothing but butthurt people trying to overwrite Albanian history. Dacians/Thracians are far too eastern shifted without Slavic input, to be ancestral to Albanians (or Greeks).
 
enter_tain said:
Illyrian in Croatia and Slovenia are not all Illyrians. Of course you know that, but want to keep bullshitting. We still have no Z638 Illyrians.

And we went over this. Albanians are still closer to Croatian Iron Age dude, than they are to Bulgarian Iron Age, which they have almost nothing to do with.
Click to expand...

What's your problem? Those samples are clearly Illyrian. Check yourself in or something I see you posting utter non sense everywhere.
 
Johane Derite said:
The evidence for a Latinised Illyrian people in North Albania can be found in placenames like:


Kashnjet <- Castanetum
Kallmet <- Calametum
Qerret <- Ceretum
Laç <- Latio
Vinjall <- Vinealis


Etc.


But what happened to these Latin speaking Illyrians?


There are indications that at least some of these Illyrians were assimilated by the Proto-Albanians.


This might mean Central Ghegs and Northwest Ghegs possibly have an Illyrian component not present in Tosks and Northeast Ghegs.


FJzbThOXMAAT7DN

FJzbU9YXIAgakrB
Click to expand...

I am from Central and East Kosovo which is considered "north east Geg" which i personally find misleading as our dialect is very different from let's say Presheve Albanians or other supposedly North East Geg areas. The Prishtina valley has also a higher South Illyrian patrilineage survival than West or South Kosovo for instance.

Goga is by the way a very common Aromanian surname it is also present among South Albanians.
 
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