Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

New paper on Serbian yDNA. Too bad they don't apply higher resolution SNP testing. The paper is kind of last decade, with the most interesting part being the historical migratory summary:
Distribution of Y-chromosome haplogroups in Serbian population groups originating from historically and geographically significant distinct parts of the Balkan Peninsula

Abstract
Our study enrolled 1200 Serbian males originating from three geographical regions in the Balkan Peninsula inhabited by Serbs: present-day Serbia, regions of Old Herzegovina and Kosovo and Metohija. These samples were genotyped using the combination of 23 Y-chromosomal short tandem repeats (Y-STRs) loci and 17 Ychromosomal single nucleotide polymorphisms (Y-SNPs) loci for the haplotype and haplogroup analysis in order to characterize in detail Y chromosome flow in the recent history. Serbia?s borders have changed through history, forcing Serbs constantly to migrate to different regions of Balkan Peninsula. The most significant migration waves in the recent history towards present-day Serbia occurred from the regions of Old- Herzegovina and Kosovo and Metohija that lie in the south-west/south. High haplotype diversity and discrimination capacity were observed in all three datasets, with the highest number of unique haplotypes (381) and discrimination capacity (0.97) detected in the samples originating from the present-day Serbia. Haplogroup composition didn?t differ significantly among datasets, with three dominant haplogroups (I-M170, E-P170 and R-M198), and haplogroup I-M170 being the most frequent in all three datasets. Haplogroup E-P170 was the second most dominant in the dataset originating from geographical region of Kosovo and Metohija, whereas haplogroup R-M198 was the second most prevalent in the dataset from historical region of Old Herzegovina. Based on the phylogenetic three for haplogroup I constructed within this study, haplogroup I2a1-P37.2 was the most dominant within all three datasets, especially in the dataset from historical region of Old Herzegovina, where 182 out of 400 samples were derived for SNP P37.2. Genetic distances between three groups of samples, evaluated by the Fst and Rst statistical values, and further visualized through multidimensional scaling plot, showed great genetic similarity between datasets from Old Herzegovina and present-day Serbia. Genetic difference in the haplogroup distribution and frequency between datasets from historical region of Old Herzegovina and from geographical region of Kosovo and Metohija was confirmed with highest Fst and Rst vaules. In this study we have distinguished genetic structure, diversity and haplogroup frequencies within 1200 Serbian males from three datasets, relationships among them as well as with other Balkan and European populations, which is useful for studying recent demographic history.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1872497322001089

High haplotype diversity and discrimination capacity were observed in all three datasets, with the highest number of unique haplotypes (381) and discrimination capacity (0.97) detected in the samples originating from the present-day Serbia. Haplogroup composition didn?t differ significantly among datasets, with three dominant haplogroups (I-M170, E-P170 and R-M198), and haplogroup I-M170 being the most frequent in all three datasets. Haplogroup E-P170 was the second most dominant in the dataset originating from geographical region of Kosovo and Metohija, whereas haplogroup R-M198 was the second most prevalent in the dataset from historical region of Old Herzegovina

Given its geographical position, population history of the Balkan Peninsula is determined by numerous migrations that have taken place throughout history. Based on archaeological analyses, repopulation of the Balkan Peninsula occurred during the Mesolithic and Neolithic periods [4], [5], [6]. During the Bronze age, people belonging to the Urnfield culture from central Europe [7] colonized the entire region from the Baltic to the Adriatic Sea [8]. From 1000 BCE the Balkan Peninsula was occupied by the Illyrians in the west and by the Thracians in the southeast [9]. In 270 CE Roman emperors moved Romanized Dacians south of the Danube and founded first one and latter two Dacian provinces whose capitals were Ratiaria (Vidin) and Serdica (Sofia). Up to 318 CE they continued moving free Dacian tribes by force who were threatening the empire?s borders. One such tribe was Carpi that resided in the region of modern Moldavia. Some of these people were settled in the Roman province of Pannonia (modern western Hungary) and others along the right bank of Danube to its mouth in Dobruja. Dacians were so numerous in Balkan peninsula that diocese Moesia were divided into diocese Dacia and diocese Macedonia in 337 CE.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1872497322001089

I'm pretty sure that we will find, on the longer run, different waves of E-V13 entering the Balkans, from very early (Urnfield) to the latest (Slavs), with the bulk coming from Thracians and Dacians. I have little doubt that some more Northern-Carpathian leaning subclades of E-V13 spread to the Balkans with the Carpi and Costobocci, the main free Dacian tribes, fairly late. Not necessarily the bulk of it, but I wouldn't wonder if that turns out to be a contributing factor.
 
The paper is kind of last decade, with the most interesting part being the historical migratory summary.
Isn't this the "paper" that claims I-Y3120 is native with the argument "Romanians think of themselves as the descendants of Dacians so this linage has to be native Dacian"? It is not just last decade it is absolutely nuts seeing such non sense in 2022.

Their geography has some provocative intentional errors: it is the Republic of Kosovo or just Kosovo, aka Dardania.
 
John Hunyady one of the most famous Ottoman invasion resistants was E-V13 Z5017, interesting that he shares the subclade with Skanderbeg, and quite likely Vlad Tepes Dracula (Farroukh posted somewhere as he is convinced he was E-V13 Z5017, but nothing confirmed for him yet).

It's early to suggest, but i guess this subclade was prominent among Dacians and Pannonian-Illyrians!?
 
John Hunyady one of the most famous Ottoman invasion resistants was E-V13 Z5017, interesting that he shares the subclade with Skanderbeg, and quite likely Vlad Tepes Dracula (Farroukh posted somewhere as he is convinced he was E-V13 Z5017, but nothing confirmed for him yet).

It's early to suggest, but i guess this subclade was prominent among Dacians and Pannonian-Illyrians!?

There are couple of E-V13 subclades which have a strong position in the North Carpathian zone and spread out in Slovakia, South Eastern Poland and Western Ukraine, not just North Eastern Hungary and Northern Romania. The frequency is not that high, but the diversity is. I think this goes back to some Northern Dacians all the way. Interestingly, a lot of these branches have representatives in the Southern-Central Balkans, Albanians in particular, as well. But it is hard to tell when exactly they moved South, because there is a big gap usually, with little to no overlap within the recent historical time frame.

Transcarpathia and its direct neighbourhood is one of the areas which had a continuous presence of the suggested populations and cultures which I associate with Daco-Thracians, from Nyirseg to late Free Dacians. Many other areas had more turmoil already in the early periods, like with the Scythians.
 
2000px-Byzantine_Greece_ca_900_AD_svg_pn.png



Bulgarian empire = Vlachs also.

I will not equal it but, I will say that helped in the expansion of the Vllah component. See the dates of the Vllah movements in Greece.
ab10c6c850a26fb4699a386d2ea72c0d.jpg



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As can i see, the thing with Vlachs is that when they were formed as a group they were quite diverse on patrilieages. Not pure Daco-Thracian.

I assume same Paleo-Balkanic stock as Thracians and Illyrians with an increased J2a influence from Hellenic-Anatolian sphere and Slavic on top.
 
The main problem with the Vlach migration is that we have no modern Vlach population which has even remotely as high E-V13 as would be needed to account for the increase in various regions. Even the Albanian percentage is rather too low and diverse. So either it was a specfiic subpopulation of Vlachs which might show up eventually in the ancient DNA record or something else was going on. We know that e.g. Albanians, Vlachs and Slavs spread specific subclades of E-V13, but none of them has the exact profile and frequency needed, which might be due to specific subpopulations or unknown third groups (like Daco-Romans, Dacians or other Thracian dominated provincials).
 
John Hunyady one of the most famous Ottoman invasion resistants was E-V13 Z5017, interesting that he shares the subclade with Skanderbeg, and quite likely Vlad Tepes Dracula (Farroukh posted somewhere as he is convinced he was E-V13 Z5017, but nothing confirmed for him yet).

It's early to suggest, but i guess this subclade was prominent among Dacians
We don’t know what Vlad Tepes might have been unless his bones get dug up and tested. The most common haplogroup and equally clade of that haplogroup amongst tested Basarab descendants is J2b-L283>Y22894 In comparison, isn't there actually three types of E1b-V13 subclades tested among Basarabs?

"Vlad III The Impaler, also known as Dracula, descended from the dynasty of Basarab, the first rulers of independent Wallachia, in present Romania."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3404992/

Do we actually have paternal descendants of Skenderbeu's paternal tribal relatives and/or his own paternal descendants (didn't they die out?) tested?
 
Romanians also carry a thin layer of Italic R1b, legionnaire lineage.

A lot of the R-L51 in Romanians might be from Tumulus culture, La Tene Celts and Germans though. Depends on the exact subclade and should be confirmed with more data in many cases though.
 
We don’t know what Vlad Tepes might have been unless his bones get dug up and tested. The most common haplogroup and equally clade of that haplogroup amongst tested Basarab descendants is J2b-L283>Y22894 In comparison, isn't there actually three types of E1b-V13 subclades tested among Basarabs?

"Vlad III The Impaler, also known as Dracula, descended from the dynasty of Basarab, the first rulers of independent Wallachia, in present Romania."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3404992/

Do we actually have paternal descendants of Skenderbeu's paternal tribal relatives and/or his own paternal descendants (didn't they die out?) tested?

I am no sure who got tested but it is listed in Eupedia

bff2eb0975f9443df0ecb8e29ae4bfa9.jpg




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As I have said before, if Skenderbe was indeed V13-z17107 I would not be surprised one bit. Since statistically speaking V13 is the likeliest branch to begin with. I just can not find a source for this claim anywhere on the web.
Maciamo, could you please be so kind and provide a source?
 
We don’t know what Vlad Tepes might have been unless his bones get dug up and tested. The most common haplogroup and equally clade of that haplogroup amongst tested Basarab descendants is J2b-L283>Y22894 In comparison, isn't there actually three types of E1b-V13 subclades tested among Basarabs?

"Vlad III The Impaler, also known as Dracula, descended from the dynasty of Basarab, the first rulers of independent Wallachia, in present Romania."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3404992/

Do we actually have paternal descendants of Skenderbeu's paternal tribal relatives and/or his own paternal descendants (didn't they die out?) tested?

That's true. Unless we dig the bones we don't know. I am interested why Farroukh considers the E-V13 Z17107 subclade as the Bassarab lineage. But i consider him as reliable person, same as Maciamo. It's a matter of likelihoods.
 
As I have said before, if Skenderbe was indeed V13-z17107 I would not be surprised one bit. Since statistically speaking V13 is the likeliest branch to begin with. I just can not find a source for this claim anywhere on the web.
Maciamo, could you please be so kind and provide a source?

Even for more recent American colonials its often disputed, with different lines of genealogical descendants having different haplogroups and you don't know what is right.
 
I will not equal it but, I will say that helped in the expansion of the Vllah component.



For all intended purposes, the Byzantine chroniclers refer to them as a common denominator.

As for Vlachs, in the words of Laonicos Chalcocondyles (translation mine), " ... (they) are part of the greater nation of the Triballians and Moeseans, Illyrians and Croatians, Polanians and Sarmatians ...".



They are named as Dacians and they settled Greece " ... in Pindus, Thessaly and even in the Peloponnese, in Laconia and Taygetos mountain".

Setting aside particularities, they are a distinct population to the existing nation of the Greco-Roman at that point in time and history, and, in my opinion, are the carriers of the great numbers of E-V13 clades found in Greece today.


Screenshot-2022-03-07-at-16-56-19-Laonici-Chalcocondylae-Atheniensis-historiarum-libri-decem.png
 
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For all intended purposes, the Byzantine chroniclers refer to them as a common denominator.

As for Vlachs, in the words of Laonicos Chalcocondyles (translation mine), " ... (they) are part of the greater nation of the Triballians and Moeseans, Illyrians and Croatians, Polanians and Sarmatians ...".



They are named as Dacians and they settled Greece " ... in Pindus, Thessaly and even in the Peloponnese, in Laconia and Taygetos mountain".

Setting aside particularities, they are a distinct population to the existing nation of the Greco-Roman at that point in time and history, and, in my opinion, are the carriers of the great numbers of E-V13 clades found in Greece today.


Screenshot-2022-03-07-at-16-56-19-Laonici-Chalcocondylae-Atheniensis-historiarum-libri-decem.png

I have no argument against this. My point was that I see it difficult for Albanians to come from Bessi stock. If from Bessi I would expect more Greek influence.


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Even for more recent American colonials its often disputed, with different lines of genealogical descendants having different haplogroups and you don't know what is right.

Of course. Hence we get instances like the Basarab. My point is mainly, that for such an outstanding claim, a source is not much to ask for, and I would have expected Maciamo to have provided one.
 
Of course. Hence we get instances like the Basarab. My point is mainly, that for such an outstanding claim, a source is not much to ask for, and I would have expected Maciamo to have provided one.

If Maciamo has listed it some kind of support he has it.


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In terms of language, it's obvious that Albanian is not of Bessi origin. The E-V13 "Proto-Albanian" concept is being used to reformulate a bunch of old, debunked theories.
 

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