Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

I find the Albanian averages to be very flawed much like the G25 model to be honest. I know from conversations I had with self proclaimed "pure Gheg" people that they like to lie and blend out certain types of other known ancestry of their family's auDNA. This clearly falsifies averages for "Gheg" groups from Kosovo and beyond. Those "Gheg samples" from some areas, Kosovo included, are on the verge of being inter slavic lol

I'm from East Central Kosovo and my nearest match is that North West Albanian sample from Shkodra.

Is there generally any other known academic samples available on modern Albanians that perhaps have also other regions in it and not just the ones I have seen thus far? I specifically refer to academic samples not faked coordinates of "projects from internet enthusiasts" (Anthrogenica's Bruzmi etc.) in order to make them look like they kind of came straight out of the Bronze/Iron Age :LOL:


I do not see much of a Slavic merge with the Triballi Thracian tribe as mixing a lot with Dardanian Gheg people ................there was some mixing , but minor.........seems like the emerging Serb/Triballi mix stayed around modern Serbia
 
I find the Albanian averages to be very flawed much like the G25 model to be honest. I know from conversations I had with self proclaimed "pure Gheg" people that they like to lie and blend out certain types of other known ancestry of their family's auDNA. This clearly falsifies averages for "Gheg" groups from Kosovo and beyond. Those "Gheg samples" from some areas, Kosovo included, are on the verge of being inter slavic lol

I'm from East Central Kosovo and my nearest match is that North West Albanian sample from Shkodra.

Is there generally any other known academic samples available on modern Albanians that perhaps have also other regions in it and not just the ones I have seen thus far? I specifically refer to academic samples not faked coordinates of "projects from internet enthusiasts" (Anthrogenica's Bruzmi etc.) in order to make them look like they kind of came straight out of the Bronze/Iron Age :LOL:


Mount I have the same suspicions too, one of Zanatis cousin's scored 55+% HRV IA, which you don't see even on the Roman Croatia samples. I am new to this and I am playing catch up. Is all G25 conversions done by Davidski, or are people now doing their "own" conversions through a online software service? What are the proper channels to get a legitimate conversion? I know at least 7 Toskies that have taken a ancestry test, I can convince 3-4 to get their G25s, but would only bother to do this if the results are legitimate, putting them in touch with the Alb project is out of the question. I have zero faith in any of them, they engage in fraud and worse, mediocre personalities (I am not impressed with any of them from an expert point of view), they are there because they are obsessed at being Illyrian, not because they are good at what they do. I don't respect that, I only respect excellence and precision. All of them behave like fan boys, hive minded, not single person is a man of his own in that group, none shows sign of their own personality, eternal Brumi C riding.
They are entirely fixated at being Illyrian, nothing else to it.

I trust Davidski's averages, because all his Balkan samples form a coherent slope from Balkan Slavs to Greek, the clusters ride the same slope. Brumi's samples(from his own PCA charts) make a sharp right(exit ramp) towards Illyria. These are the people that represent us. I don't respect buffoonery.

We need more samples, because it will improve the fit, and make modeling(and the hunt for patterns/signals) more precise. The main reason Greek samples have such a good fit is sample size. If you can point me the right direction, I will try to get some new G25s from southern Albania and I suggest you guys do the same for your region, don't expect any honest service from the clique, will never happen.
 
Mount I have the same suspicions too, one of Zanatis cousin's scored 55+% HRV IA, which you don't see even on the Roman Croatia samples. I am new to this and I am playing catch up. Is all G25 conversions done by Davidski, or are people now doing their "own" conversions through a online software service? What are the proper channels to get a legitimate conversion? I know at least 7 Toskies that have taken a ancestry test, I can convince 3-4 to get their G25s, but would only bother to do this if the results are legitimate, putting them in touch with the Alb project is out of the question. I have zero faith in any of them, they engage in fraud and worse, mediocre personalities (I am not impressed with any of them from an expert point of view), they are there because they are obsessed at being Illyrian, not because they are good at what they do. I don't respect that, I only respect excellence and precision. All of them behave like fan boys, hive minded, not single person is a man of his own in that group, none shows sign of their own personality, eternal Brumi C riding.
They are entirely fixated at being Illyrian, nothing else to it.

I trust Davidski's averages, because all his Balkan samples form a coherent slope from Balkan Slavs to Greek, the clusters ride the same slope. Brumi's samples(from his own PCA charts) make a sharp right(exit ramp) towards Illyria. These are the people that represent us. I don't respect buffoonery.

We need more samples, because it will improve the fit, and make modeling(and the hunt for patterns/signals) more precise. The main reason Greek samples have such a good fit is sample size. If you can point me the right direction, I will try to get some new G25s from southern Albania and I suggest you guys do the same for your region, don't expect any honest service from the clique, will never happen.

Brumi has been found wanting ............and the scary part is that he has access to Wikipedia to make changes ..............that's what I am reading
 
Brumi has been found wanting ............and the scary part is that he has access to Wikipedia to make changes ..............that's what I am reading

Not surprised, that points to him working for the Alb government, having access to wikipedia require state clearance of some sort, the keys are not handed out to hobbyist. That's my appraisal.

If he had a hand in the I13834 fraud, it explains things quite clearly. They used an ancient sample and gave it the same date as the gypsy samples(1400 AD) to show proof that as late as 1400 AD, Albs were still Illyrian. With this, he could turn around to Davidski and say see, my G25 coordinates(which are HRV IA leaning) are real, look at the MDV sample. And with that, would have gotten an official endorsement from Davidski.

There is a reason why he fights tooth and nail my legitimate reads. I13834 is entirely IA(no imperial MENA, and no Slavic admixture). He tries to argue I13839 is not Thracian based, despite the obvious calc reads, because it reveals a chronological phase in 900 AD of Albs shifting from the Thracian cluster to the current one.
 
Brumi has been found wanting ............and the scary part is that he has access to Wikipedia to make changes ..............that's what I am reading
You can see in the edits section that Bruzmi posts as "Maleschreiber" (Jesus what a silly name). You can further notice this from the poor quality of the writings that it has been edited by some obnoxious propagandist third worldler. To have access to being an editor on Wikipedia you don't need qualifications, obviously these are just internet enthusiasts.

His edits are the funniest thing I have read by the way.
 
Mount I have the same suspicions too, one of Zanatis cousin's scored 55+% HRV IA, which you don't see even on the Roman Croatia samples. I am new to this and I am playing catch up. Is all G25 conversions done by Davidski, or are people now doing their "own" conversions through a online software service? What are the proper channels to get a legitimate conversion? I know at least 7 Toskies that have taken a ancestry test, I can convince 3-4 to get their G25s, but would only bother to do this if the results are legitimate, putting them in touch with the Alb project is out of the question. I have zero faith in any of them, they engage in fraud and worse, mediocre personalities (I am not impressed with any of them from an expert point of view), they are there because they are obsessed at being Illyrian, not because they are good at what they do. I don't respect that, I only respect excellence and precision. All of them behave like fan boys, hive minded, not single person is a man of his own in that group, none shows sign of their own personality, eternal Brumi C riding.
They are entirely fixated at being Illyrian, nothing else to it.

I trust Davidski's averages, because all his Balkan samples form a coherent slope from Balkan Slavs to Greek, the clusters ride the same slope. Brumi's samples(from his own PCA charts) make a sharp right(exit ramp) towards Illyria. These are the people that represent us. I don't respect buffoonery.

We need more samples, because it will improve the fit, and make modeling(and the hunt for patterns/signals) more precise. The main reason Greek samples have such a good fit is sample size. If you can point me the right direction, I will try to get some new G25s from southern Albania and I suggest you guys do the same for your region, don't expect any honest service from the clique, will never happen.
That guy with the Turkish surname Düşman is also the one who has made the ugliest comments here on this thread. I don't take such people seriously, it is quite clear that they are notorious liars with underlying psychological issues.

Well, I'm a student busy with work and uni. Am currently (since more than a half year :embarassed:) saving up for two Big Y tests. I have said this before on this thread but just to be clear: my main interest is my Y DNA (also mtDNA) and Illyrians. What academic papers have shown is that those Proto-Illyrian Cetina/Dinaric guys carrying my paternal lineage are autosomally very different from Albanians. Whilst I am definitely interested to some minor degree how these and other pre-slavic Balkanites merged into what we are today, it is definitely not my priority as my paternal ancestors clearly don't form the main auDNA bulk, that has got to be some Central and beyond non-Illyrian Balkanite people.

My closest match for me and my father is that modern Shkodra sample hence my reserve on these falsified averages for some North East Gheg regions. (there clearly is also difference within Kosovo, Presh. etc. of course)
 
You can see in the edits section that Bruzmi posts as "Maleschreiber" (Jesus what a silly name). You can further notice this from the poor quality of the writings that it has been edited by some obnoxious propagandist third worldler. To have access to being an editor on Wikipedia you don't need qualifications, obviously these are just internet enthusiasts.

His edits are the funniest thing I have read by the way.

I doubt it, Wiki is one the top recommended google search results on any topic one can inquire on. Knowing how the information avenues are tightly controlled, access to make edits are not just handed out, than you can have people who are adversaries to current system use it as a medium to discredit the system. That's not how these people operate, there is no fair play, a free market of ideas. It's mostly a monopoly. One can only find the truth by personally digging for it, talking to like minded individuals through unregulated hobby forums(like here) and use their instincts and exchange ideas. Look at the giant discrepancy between what's discussed in the DNA forums vs what is published in official DNA studies. All the breakthroughs are made by passionate hobbyists (R1b = invader, not stone age local, I2a-Din = Slavic, not a native Dalmatian). The Lazaradis crowd only reluctantly concedes when their non-migration position becomes unattainable, despite having access to data before any of us, despite being the so called experts whose job is to figure this out.

I wont go too deep, but my appraisal is this. Brumi works for the Alb gov, likely a decedent from the communist politburo grand children(nipat e Enverit/Koleka/etc.., djal partie). He is keeping up his ancestors work on forging history, mutilating real Albanian history, and getting paid for it.

His groupies are just ideological drug addicts, addicted to his Illyrian crack. They get nothing out of it.

We are at a point where we should be able to reconstructed our origins, data coming out makes this possible and these people are on the way blocking every attempt.
 
I doubt it, Wiki is one the top recommended google search results on any topic one can inquire on. Knowing how the information avenues are tightly controlled, access to make edits are not just handed out, than you can have people who are adversaries to current system use it as a medium to discredit the system. That's not how these people operate, there is no fair play, a free market of ideas. It's mostly a monopoly. One can only find the truth by personally digging for it, talking to like minded individuals through unregulated hobby forums(like here) and use their instincts and exchange ideas. Look at the giant discrepancy between what's discussed in the DNA forums vs what is published in official DNA studies. All the breakthroughs are made by passionate hobbyists (R1b = invader, not stone age local, I2a-Din = Slavic, not a native Dalmatian). The Lazaradis crowd only reluctantly concedes when their non-migration position becomes unattainable, despite having access to data before any of us, despite being the so called experts whose job is to figure this out.

I wont go too deep, but my appraisal is this. Brumi works for the Alb gov, likely a decedent from the communist politburo grand children(nipat e Enverit/Koleka/etc.., djal partie). He is keeping up his ancestors work on forging history, mutilating real Albanian history, and getting paid for it.

His groupies are just ideological drug addicts, addicted to his Illyrian crack. They get nothing out of it.

We are at a point where we should be able to reconstructed our origins, data coming out makes this possible and these people are on the way blocking every attempt.

The only benefit wikipedia has is in the links as per the article .................the article is and can be amended by many people, the the links are actual studies on the topic written

I have seen an article where somebody changed the ydna marker completely, but then you go to the link and the scientific paper and its a completely different haplogroup
 
Dardanians were Illyrians. Most of modern Kosovo was inhabited by Illyrians. There are almost no Thracian names or placenames there. Only the Eastern part of Dardania, outside Kosovo, where such names appear which was only when they expanded there into Thracian territory. Illyrians were the last culture to dominate in Kosove before Roman occupation. Autariate pushed out the Triballi and not Dardani who were mostly Glasinac Mati. And not much suggests proto-Albanians came specifically from this tribe. You can vandalize wikipedia with your fake theories all you want and books from these pseudo intellectual propagandists like Matzinger but there is certainly not much that will ever change the truth. I don't know why people keep repeating these theories that have no compelling evidence as some kind of fact.


I cannot believe Bruzmi actually quoted this psuedo intellectual. Same dude that held apparently the Leiden study.
 
Some E-V13 could of been absorbed when the Illyrians expanded into inland of the Balkans / Kosove.
 
It's funny how the Yugoslav nationalist PaleoRevenge who is pretending to be Albanian and has repeatedly posted supremacist comments about hg I trying to promote his own south Slavic origins as "superior" is making up more and more deranged conspiracy theories.

unknown.png


Everybody (Albanian government, fora, Lazaridis, archaeological labs, studies) are conspiring to make Albanians as close to the natives of the western Balkans (including Dardania) as possible ... or this is just what all recent studies are showing. It's pathetic that instead of discussing studies, this thread has explicitly become a place where conspiracy theories are constantly posted to deny reality. Sadly for you, reality won't change. Keep up with the conspiracy theories about the "Albanian government" though, they're great and establish to everyone what you represent and who you are.

@Dardi neither Bruzmi, nor anyone else from the people active on anthrogenica support Matzinger. They're just pointing that even Matzinger doesn't consider Albanians to have come from Thrace or Dacia and not even from somewhere in the northern Balkans, but he considers them part of a Proto-Messapo-Albanian group.

M20.png


He says that "Proto-Albanians and Proto-Messapians moved farther to the north. The latter should have joined by that time the already very mixed Cetina culture complex at the Dalmatian coast around 1700 BCE."

The displacement of Albanians from the western Balkans (including Dardania) is something which doesn't exist in current literature. It only exists in the mindset of fringe, conspiracy theories which have an anti-Albanian bias
 
Dardanians were Illyrians. Most of modern Kosovo was inhabited by Illyrians. There are almost no Thracian names or placenames there. Only the Eastern part of Dardania, outside Kosovo, where such names appear which was only when they expanded there into Thracian territory. Illyrians were the last culture to dominate in Kosove before Roman occupation. Autariate pushed out the Triballi and not Dardani who were mostly Glasinac Mati. And not much suggests proto-Albanians came specifically from this tribe. You can vandalize wikipedia with your fake theories all you want and books from these pseudo intellectual propagandists like Matzinger but there is certainly not much that will ever change the truth. I don't know why people keep repeating these theories that have no compelling evidence as some kind of fact.


I cannot believe Bruzmi actually quoted this psuedo intellectual. Same dude that held apparently the Leiden study.


Autariate .....as you say...they came from modern Bosnia and entered Kosovo ..........they are not Dardanians
 
It's funny how the Yugoslav nationalist PaleoRevenge who is pretending to be Albanian and has repeatedly posted supremacist comments about hg I trying to promote his own south Slavic origins as "superior" is making up more and more deranged conspiracy theories.

unknown.png


Everybody (Albanian government, fora, Lazaridis, archaeological labs, studies) are conspiring to make Albanians as close to the natives of the western Balkans (including Dardania) as possible ... or this is just what all recent studies are showing. It's pathetic that instead of discussing studies, this thread has explicitly become a place where conspiracy theories are constantly posted to deny reality. Sadly for you, reality won't change. Keep up with the conspiracy theories about the "Albanian government" though, they're great and establish to everyone what you represent and who you are.

@Dardi neither Bruzmi, nor anyone else from the people active on anthrogenica support Matzinger. They're just pointing that even Matzinger doesn't consider Albanians to have come from Thrace or Dacia and not even from somewhere in the northern Balkans, but he considers them part of a Proto-Messapo-Albanian group.

M20.png


He says that "Proto-Albanians and Proto-Messapians moved farther to the north. The latter should have joined by that time the already very mixed Cetina culture complex at the Dalmatian coast around 1700 BCE."

The displacement of Albanians from the western Balkans (including Dardania) is something which doesn't exist in current literature. It only exists in the mindset of fringe, conspiracy theories which have an anti-Albanian bias

he stated he was Albanian many times ...........why don't you believe him...is it because he contradicts you ?

The Only historian who states Dardanians are illyrians is Strabo ............but he also states Rhaeti , Taurisci and pannonians are also Illyrians

Bruzmi, dreams his history to fit his narrative...........you never find what he states is fact
 
Autariate .....as you say...they came from modern Bosnia and entered Kosovo ..........they are not Dardanians
You do realize that this "Dardi" is a fake account of entertain,1337? This person has opened nearly 20 puppet accounts, he clearly suffers from some mental illness. He claims Albanians, same as that excine, autosomally resemble Cetina lol (they obviously don't :LOL:).

And yes Dardania is the meeting place of at least three unrelated cultural complexes: Glasinac Mati to the West, Brnjica all over (the North Macedonian Ulanci group also had archeologically attested Brnjica parallels we know how this will reflect in the aDNA records in Kosovo) and Channeled Ware. Dardanians are not Illyrians but there was Illyrian influence and tribes living in the territory.

Groups such as the Autariatae will very highly likely be the source of how late phase Proto-Illyrian Cetina (Dinaric)/ Eastern Glasinac Mati J2b-L283>Y21045>PH4679 expanded into the Central Balkans and merged with non-Illyrian Balkanites.
 
It's funny how the Yugoslav nationalist PaleoRevenge who is pretending to be Albanian and has repeatedly posted supremacist comments about hg I trying to promote his own south Slavic origins as "superior" is making up more and more deranged conspiracy theories.

Everybody (Albanian government, fora, Lazaridis, archaeological labs, studies) are conspiring to make Albanians as close to the natives of the western Balkans (including Dardania) as possible ... or this is just what all recent studies are showing. It's pathetic that instead of discussing studies, this thread has explicitly become a place where conspiracy theories are constantly posted to deny reality. Sadly for you, reality won't change. Keep up with the conspiracy theories about the "Albanian government" though, they're great and establish to everyone what you represent and who you are.


If anyone can be considered a Yugoslav is your sorry as$. Just like your genius ancestors helped the Montenegrins siege Shkodra and do a lot of damage to Albanians, you willingly help Mr. Sigurimi/Brumi take a dumb on Albanian history, collect people's DNA profile and forge data. My ancestors prevented the Greeks from slaughtering Muslim Albs. I'm not going to take credit for it, I was not personally there 110 years ago, but keep my name out of your mouth.

Speaking of conspiracies, how is this possible?
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bangladeshi+puntor

In Durres, businesses are paying them more than the local Albanians, on top of it their accommodation and food is often paid by the agencies that bring them. Paying them more and subsidizing their accommodation, native Albanians have to eat these costs with a lower wage. I don't know the details how the companies are incentivized to take this extra cost (no one in their right mind would increase their business costs). But there is no way they are not getting subsidies or tax credits, to pay the colonists more and house them, essentially a financed colonization operation. On top of it, the "Alb" government will even penalize companies if these Bengaldeshi new hires, leave Albania (use Albania as jumping board to EU). Albania's youth have been turned non-Grata in their own native land (you can't start a business without being harassed by Brumi/Rama and co, they'll send endless inspectors and fines your way), and are fleeing the country, literally swimming to England. At the same time they are openly financing the colonization of Albania with foreigners.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln4rG9jvEf0

You think your Illyrian wet dreams will save you? Fantasies about continuity will not save Albanians.
Don't accuse me of being a dubious character. The folks here that accept obvious lies and untruths are dubious. Accepting an obvious lie as real and going along with it degrades one own character. You can't accuse me of that, as I reject this Illyrian buffoonery.
 
It's funny how the Yugoslav nationalist PaleoRevenge who is pretending to be Albanian and has repeatedly posted supremacist comments about hg I trying to promote his own south Slavic origins as "superior" is making up more and more deranged conspiracy theories.

unknown.png


Everybody (Albanian government, fora, Lazaridis, archaeological labs, studies) are conspiring to make Albanians as close to the natives of the western Balkans (including Dardania) as possible ... or this is just what all recent studies are showing. It's pathetic that instead of discussing studies, this thread has explicitly become a place where conspiracy theories are constantly posted to deny reality. Sadly for you, reality won't change. Keep up with the conspiracy theories about the "Albanian government" though, they're great and establish to everyone what you represent and who you are.

@Dardi neither Bruzmi, nor anyone else from the people active on anthrogenica support Matzinger. They're just pointing that even Matzinger doesn't consider Albanians to have come from Thrace or Dacia and not even from somewhere in the northern Balkans, but he considers them part of a Proto-Messapo-Albanian group.

M20.png


He says that "Proto-Albanians and Proto-Messapians moved farther to the north. The latter should have joined by that time the already very mixed Cetina culture complex at the Dalmatian coast around 1700 BCE."

The displacement of Albanians from the western Balkans (including Dardania) is something which doesn't exist in current literature. It only exists in the mindset of fringe, conspiracy theories which have an anti-Albanian bias

Proto-Armenians never made it into the Balkans. This scenario is wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
he stated he was Albanian many times ...........why don't you believe him...is it because he contradicts you ?
The Only historian who states Dardanians are illyrians is Strabo ............but he also states Rhaeti , Taurisci and pannonians are also Illyrians
Bruzmi, dreams his history to fit his narrative...........you never find what he states is fact

Appian also states that Dardanians are Illyrians.
 
Appian also states that Dardanians are Illyrians.

from book 10

We know very little about Appian beyond that he was a Greek from Alexandria, spent time as a lawyer in Rome, belonged to the equestrian order, and likely took a position as procurator. Appian’s work on Roman Matters is an important source not only for the Roman civil wars but also for Rome’s engagements with other peoples (the so-called “Foreign Wars” section of the work), including the peoples that the Romans and Greeks grouped together under the label “Illyrians.” Much like “Thracians” and “Scythians,” the category “Illyrians” was a designation for a variety of different peoples who lived on the Balkan peninsula between Epeiros in the southeast and Pannonia in the northwest, extending northeast up to the Danube (ancient Istros) river. Appian himself is very much aware that “Illyrians” was an outsider designation rather than a self-identification.

he also states Liburnians are Illyrians

The Liburnians, another Illyrian descent group, were next to the Ardiaians as a maritime people. Liburnians engaged in sea-banditry in the Ionian [Adriatic] sea and islands with their light, fast-sailing vessels, for which reason the Romans to this day call their own light, swift ships with two-banks of oars “liburnidas.”

I see no Dardanian ...except
Scipio made peace with the Maidians and Dardanians, accepting from them part of the gold belonging to the temple.


I see the invasion of greece
The Autariensians were overtaken with destruction by the vengeance of Apollo. Having joined Molostimos and the Celtic people called Kimbrians in an expedition against the temple of Delphi,


The peoples whom the Greeks called Illyrians.(6) These peoples, and also the Pannonians, the Rhaetians, the Norikans, the Mysians of Europe, and the other neighbours who inhabited the right bank of the Istros,
 
One interesting thing i have observed is that the Taulantian and Dardanian chiefs name Monunious appears among Odrysians only.

EgaggnCWsAE2Hle



Also, it's interesting how the helmet attributed to him is of the so called Thraco-Phrygian type.

6ea3f41638cbdf8cf786d3047c9991bd.jpg


Quite a coincidence i would say, Monunious was the son of Berisades, Monunious the Dardanian belonged to Peresadyes (a variation of Berisades, a recurring name among similar people?!, note the Spartokid king is named Peresadyes as well) tribe (per Hammond), this tribe also was co-ruling among Taulanti and Enchelei (Monunious the Taulantian). Perhaps some Balkan-Carpathian/Kanellure tribe among Illyrians? Well, aDNA can tell us.
 
One interesting thing i have observed is that the Taulantian and Dardanian chiefs name Monunious appears among Odrysians only.

EgaggnCWsAE2Hle



Also, it's interesting how the helmet attributed to him is of the so called Thraco-Phrygian type.

6ea3f41638cbdf8cf786d3047c9991bd.jpg


Quite a coincidence i would say, Monunious was the son of Berisades, Monunious the Dardanian belonged to Peresadyes (a variation of Berisades, a recurring name among similar people?!, note the Spartokid king is named Peresadyes as well) tribe (per Hammond), this tribe also was co-ruling among Taulanti and Enchelei (Monunious the Taulantian). Perhaps some Balkan-Carpathian/Kanellure tribe among Illyrians? Well, aDNA can tell us.


Odrysians as said to be the purest of the 4 Thracian groups...and the only one to go with Alexander on his invasion of Persia
 

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