Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[mount123]

It generally baffles me how a troll account is able to generate and make this much posts with off topic non sense in a set of two days.

This is a linguistic thread and does not have anything to do with your pseudo scientific Caucasus non sense fantasy or some silly Serbian propagandistic writings you like to quote so often.

You've made your non sense points, now move on.

And there it still continues. Truly mind-boggling.

 

[1337]

This is an outdated laughable pseudo scientific article with non reliable numbers made by Pericic Salihovic who has had and still has an obsession with Slavs being autochthonous in the Balkans.

Also, this thread is about the Albanian language, if you don't like the thread's topic then post somewhere else. You have derailed this thread with off topic stuff multiple times, cut it out.

What are you talking about ? I just found it on there and asked if someone can explain it as I don't understand it ?

I have definitely not derailed the thread with off topic, in fact a lot of the things I have added have a lot to do with the Albanian origin and language, it's you who doesn't understand the content because you're completely clueless about this topic so just be quiet.

 

[mount123]

I say **** Albania. Analbania.

This thread is not for you.

 

[1337]

Interesting, Paleo. Eastwards of the region I'm from there are Mazreku people who have settled there after being expelled from their native soil in Eastern Serbia near the Bulgarian border in 1877/1878, something our Slavic neighbors might want to read about. Mazareku apo Mazreku have been historically attested in that region since long time ago, as we see with Mazarek who was an Albanian nobleman and general in the service of the Serbian Despotate, with the title of Vojvoda or the other example you've given.

The Mazreku similar to other Albanian tribes have been quite widespread geographically, though today they are mostly centered in Prizren and the surroundings, I think (some might want to correct me on this). Some have actually tested in the Albanian DNA/Rrenjet project, you might also want to look that up.

You're the one who is going off topic yourself. What have Mazareku or Mazarek anything to do with the Albanian language if none of the posts I made have anything to do with the Albanian language ? They are far more relevant than some of the posts you made.

 

[1337]

This thread is not for you.

Oh somebody is butthurt . So this is what this is all about ? How many times I have had Albanians from Albania call me 'Koqevar' and even seen them openly support Serbs I say what I want, how I want, whenever I want. Don't you worry about that. Yes this thread is 100% for me. Because I am 100% Albanian from Kosove and I am a 'Kosovar' first and foremost and there is certainly not much a muppet like you can do about it. 51 pages of Albanian language yet you have all these Albanians from Albania who get defensive if you suggest maybe Albanoi were not Albanians or if Albanian language did not originate in modern Albania. You want me to seriously believe all my ancestors came from that place from every single side ? What else is there to talk about if we cannot talk about Romanian, Aromanian and other languges related to Albanian ?

You're the one who understands none of the content that is posted. Just be quiet like I said. Certainly not much you can teach me about this subject, mr. 'Mazarek' . Even calls the content I post 'Serbian propaganda' , my god you're stupid

 

[1337]

Even Albanians from village to village insult each other or from region to region. You have city dwellers that insult katunars etc. Why you taking it all to heart ?

It is certainly not propaganda regarding the genetics, Kosovars do cluster further away from Greeks and other Southern/Central Albanians on average (While of course there are Kosovars who do cluster like Greeks but I have seen some quite northern ones) , I was more thinking if someone can explain to me the meaning of the haplotypes.

But this is a linguistic thread like you sad but it's already 54 pages of boring ass content.

 

[1337]

This is a thread about origin of Albanian language and not about the language in general so of course one has to discuss other related ethnic groups,

I made another thread here regarding the Jirecek line which is pretty relevant to it's origin too

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/42700-Jirecek-Line

Albanians in Albania claim Albanian language is native to Albania yet cannot explain the low level of Greek influence in the Albanian language.


Regarding Caucaus , that was more of an ancient migration from Iron Age/Bronze Age and not recent, since it is believed all Indo-European languages came from there or from the Steppes including Greek etc

 

[1337]

Here is some more regarding modern Albania (Epirus Nova)

Sometime during the provincial reorganization by Diocletian (r. 284–305), the western portion of the province of Macedonia along the Adriatic coast was split off into the province of New Epirus (Latin: Epirus Nova). Although this territory was not traditionally part of Epirus proper as defined by the ancient geographers, and was historically inhabited predominantly by Illyrian tribes, the name reflects the fact that under Roman rule, the area had been subject to increasing Hellenization and settlement by Epirote tribes from the south.^[1] The rest of Epirus now became Old Epirus (Ancient Greek: Παλαιὰ Ἤπειρος, or Latin: Epirus Vetus).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epirus_(Roman_province)

Sure, toponyms in Northern Albania are Latin/Pre-Slavic and/or follow Albanian sound changes (Durres, Lezha, Drin, Shkodra etc), like in Kosovo, Montenegro and Northern Macedonia but that still leaves out a lot of territory that was more Greek influenced.

 

[1337]

Here is a map:

What we do know is that the name 'Epirotae' and 'Arnautae' was used for Albanians before.

 

[1337]

..............

 

[1337]

Just a bit off topic guys, but according to Frederick Anscombe and some others Gjakova in Kosovo was founded by Albanians ? Seems to of been a village ?

Gjakova was founded by Albanians.^[7] In the Ottoman defter (tax registry) of 1485, the "village of Đakovica" had 67 households

Western and central Kosovo, at the least, fell within Ottoman Arnavudluk, being its key frontier defence against the Habsburgs.2 Troop movement orders confirm that western Kosovo was also a reliable source of
Albanian soldiers before the Habsburg invasion:3 an order of February
, offering tax concessions to Albanian districts to encourage them to
raise more troops, was sent to kadıs (religious court judges) in Prizren
province, including the judge in ‘Hassıha-yi Arnavud’, presumably the
present-day western Kosovo town of Has. This explicitly Albanian settlement should be paired with the larger nearby town of Yakova (Djakova), which is thought to have been Albanian since its founding in the late
sixteenth century.

 

[torzio]

Here is a map:

What we do know is that the name 'Epirotae' and 'Arnautae' was used for Albanians before.

Epirus Vetus is the real Epirus

Epirus Nova was the name used by the Romans after they took it from Philip V of Macedon at the start of the Roman war against Hannibal

The macedonians where allied with Hannibal against Rome

 

[broder]

Just a bit off topic guys, but according to Frederick Anscombe and some others Gjakova in Kosovo was founded by Albanians ? Seems to of been a village ?

As a settlement, it probably was named by south Slavs. Alb version of how the town was found doesn’t seem convincing. Same exact toponym also found in Slavonia, Croatia.

 

[Wanderer]

This is a thread about origin of Albanian language and not about the language in general so of course one has to discuss other related ethnic groups,

I made another thread here regarding the Jirecek line which is pretty relevant to it's origin too

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/42700-Jirecek-Line

Albanians in Albania claim Albanian language is native to Albania yet cannot explain the low level of Greek influence in the Albanian language.


Regarding Caucaus , that was more of an ancient migration from Iron Age/Bronze Age and not recent, since it is believed all Indo-European languages came from there or from the Steppes including Greek etc

Its normal that languages borrow words or influence each other. Especially for hellens and latins since they were lingua franca kinda for their time.
Kind of like how english influences some languages.
Grapefuit in japanese is literally grapefrutsu or something along that line.

 

[Johane Derite]

From the long awaited newest publication on Indo-European phylogeny, Hyllested & Joseph argue that Albanian is closest to Greek, Armenian, Phrygian, & Mesapic and furthest from Italic, Celtic, and Indo-Iranian.


They construct a hypothetical Graeco-Albanian branch that split into Graeco-Phrygian and "Illyric".

 

[Excine]

From the long awaited newest publication on Indo-European phylogeny, Hyllested & Joseph argue that Albanian is closest to Greek, Armenian, Phrygian, & Mesapic and furthest from Italic, Celtic, and Indo-Iranian.


They construct a hypothetical Graeco-Albanian branch that split into Graeco-Phrygian and "Illyric".

Albanian is closest to Messapic and then the Illyric branch is closest to the Greco-Phrygian branch than other branches, but Albanian isn't equally close to Greek, Phrygian and Messapic.

 

[Johane Derite]

Albanian is closest to Messapic and then the Illyric branch is closest to the Greco-Phrygian branch than other branches, but Albanian isn't equally close to Greek, Phrygian and Messapic.

This paper has no study about the "Illyric" branches proximity to Greek (which the authors have put in quotation marks and have said explicitly that it is speculative).

Their argument about this branch is based on Matzinger (2005) and Albanian's proxitimity to Messapic as is highlighted in the green part, where they still say that this is speculative though.

Because they assume Messapic is Illyric, they place Albanian in a branch with it, not because they have demonstrated any sort of proximity between the Illyrian languages and Greek. All in all, it is a fairly weak line of argument on the placement of Illyric.

Matzinger's 2022 paper is of relevance here, since he clearly argues they should be kept separate for now ("Illyric" and Messapic).

If Illyric is indeed an East Alpine Block language as is hypothesised in Matzinger 2022, then Illyrics' relations with Italic and Celtic could indeed be very close, while these are the two languages Albanian is furthest away from according to exactly this same study.

 

[Excine]

This paper has no study about the "Illyric" branches proximity to Greek (which the authors have put in quotation marks and have said explicitly that it is speculative).

Their argument about this branch is based on Matzinger (2005) and Albanian's proxitimity to Messapic as is highlighted in the green part, where they still say that this is speculative though.

Because they assume Messapic is Illyric, they place Albanian in a branch with it, not because they have demonstrated any sort of proximity between the Illyrian languages and Greek. All in all, it is a fairly weak line of argument on the placement of Illyric.

Matzinger's 2022 paper is of relevance here, since he clearly argues they should be kept separate for now ("Illyric" and Messapic).

If Illyric is indeed an East Alpine Block language as is hypothesised in Matzinger 2022, then Illyrics' relations with Italic and Celtic could indeed be very close, while these are the two languages Albanian is furthest away from according to exactly this same study.

Not at all, you're the one speculating and trying to mislead your audience about the sources. Matzinger doesn't consider Messapic unrelated to Illyrian, he just considers it independent which it was after so many centuries in Italy. Messapic-speakers so far have yielded lots of J-L283 just like Illyrians, so they obviously were the same people who spoken languages of the same branch. One thing which is dead and over are the fringe theories about Albanian and "Thracian" which nobody supports, including Matzinger.

 

[Excine]

If Illyric is indeed an East Alpine Block language as is hypothesised in Matzinger 2022, then Illyrics' relations with Italic and Celtic could indeed be very close, while these are the two languages Albanian is furthest away from according to exactly this same study.

Consequently, Albanian cannot be regarded as an offspring of Illyrian or even Thracian but must be considered to be a modern continuation of some other undocumented Indo-European Balkan idiom. However, Albanian is closely related to Illyrian and also Messapic (a language spoken in Southern Italy in antiquity but originally of Balkan origin), which is why Albanian in some instances may shed some light on the explanation of Messapic as well as Illyrian words (see Matzinger 2005): (Messapic-)Oenotrian ῥινός ‘clouds’ ~ Old Geg rẽ, Old Tosk rē ‘cloud’, the Messapic gloss βρένδο- ‘stag’ and the place-name Brundisium (Italian Bríndisi) ~ Old Geg brĩ, or the name of the Illyrian tribe of the Taulantioi ~ Albanian dallëndyshe ‘swallow’ (see Eichner 2004: 10 f.).



This is what Matzinger has to say about the connections between Illyrian-Albanian-Messapic.

Once more you're trying to twist what authors are writing in order to make it seem as if there is any room for fringe theories about Thracian.

 

[Johane Derite]

Not at all, you're the one speculating and trying to mislead your audience about the sources. Matzinger doesn't consider Messapic unrelated to Illyrian, he just considers it independent which it was after so many centuries in Italy. Messapic-speakers so far have yielded lots of J-L283 just like Illyrians, so they obviously were the same people who spoken languages of the same branch. One thing which is dead and over are the fringe theories about Albanian and "Thracian" which nobody supports, including Matzinger.

Stop with the cope. Its been posted countless times now on this thread, he says Messapic is not of the East Alpine Block but of the Balkan IE group, Illyrian is East Alpine Block