Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[Johane Derite]

The conclusion of the authors is the following:
====
A systematic analysis of all relevant forms goes beyond our scope, but one can fairly say that the number of closely knit
lexemes with strong etymologies is in fact not significantly higher between Albanian and Balto-Slavic than one would expect between any two IE branches.
====
You are presenting your conclusion. The authors spend 1.5 pages on Albanian - Slavic relations and 8 pages on Albanian - Greek relations. That is the main conclusion.

So you also have a problem with basic reading comprehension? My comment clearly states that the deepest phylogeny of Albanian is with Greek as is argued by them in the paper alongisde others like Matzinger.

That doesn't negate the fact that the 11-19 counting system of Albanian and Slavic (+Latvian) have the same structure and so must have had contact.

This fits Matzinger & Ackermanns model of Albanian descending from a group that stayed longer on the steppe and underwent the Satem isogloss partially, at this moment the Albanoid group ancestral to proto-Albanian could have also developed this shared counting isogloss with the proto-Slavic group.

 

[dyterw]

Great video! Thank you

 

[torzio]

Try keeping up, you've been an obsessed "expert" with Albanians and the ancient Balkans for like 10+ years haven't you?

no......its with the Balkan Celts

you need to deal with others on what the language was of the Ghegs and Tosks

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Why is every account a sock account according to you and mount? Can you not comprehend that only like 4 people on here promote a pure Thracoid theory for Albanians? One of them is Riverman from Austria, he's not even Albanian, I wouldn't be surprised if he's an E-V13 Serb living in Austria. The current data is sufficient enough, there is no Proto-Albanians without Illyrians, without J-L283.

Did I accuse you or anyone else? It's pretty obvious those two are one and the same. Hilarious, since that loser thinks he is building a audience that will agree to his fetishes, it just reeks desperation and a lack of faith in his own beliefs. 1337 forgot he was not logged as entrails, and insulted me in the exact same manner. A one trick pony with the same habits.

 

[Illyria]

Did I accuse you or anyone else? It's pretty obvious those two are one and the same. Hilarious, since that loser thinks he is building a audience that will agree to his fetishes, it just reeks desperation and a lack of faith in his own beliefs. 1337 forgot he was not logged as entrails, and insulted me in the exact same manner. A one trick pony with the same habits.

That's like me saying you, Hawk, Johane Derite, and mount are the same person, because you back each other up. Can you not comprehend that you guys have your fantasy theory, and everyone else can see that the data points to Albanians being Illyrian? Dardania is called Illyrian in the Iron Age, we see J-L283 in East Serbia with E-V13 and R1b in the Roman times. Wait till we test Kosova, Bosnia, and get more samples from Southern Serbia and Montenegro, areas known to be Illyrian-dominated in the Iron Age, then when we see E-V13 together with J2b2 and R1b, you guys can know that E-V13 Thracians gave up cremation in favor of an Illyrian tumuli burial rite. Maybe then, you guys can stop crying. We are Thraco-Illyrians, in which Illyrian became the dominant cultural, linguistic, and genetic element. Why are Albanians not pulled in the direction of the Bulgaria E-V13 samples? We're pulled in the direction of HRV_IA, and we overlap with Ancient Macedonian samples and Byzantine Epirote samples. Why aren't the Ancient Macedonian samples pulled in the direction of the ancient Bulgarian E-V13 samples? Aren't the ancient Macedonians supposed to be Channeled Ware Thracoid Paeoni barbarians that got Hellenized? Weird, how they plot closer to Illyrians and Albanians, isn't it?

 

[ihype02]

Nice cherrypicking.


Why don't you show us the % of J2b2 for some Northern Albanian Gheg areas where in some areas reaches like 30%-40%, only thing that puts this down overall is basically Southern Albania. And these frequencies that vary from region to region, even among Ghegs, are clearly bottle neck effects. Certainly don't see how this proves your theories. Especially considering Albanian is a language rich in Latin that clearly developed somewhere north of the Jirecek line. Albanians might be a mixture of Paleo-Balkan groups but not much that supports your theories of some Proto-Albanoid EV-13 Thracian tribe . Especially considering most Thracian tribes were Hellenized including the Bessi who were influenced by Greek. Albanian is clearly related to the Glasinac-Mati and Messapic.

Why don't you talk about Albanian, Dardani and other Illyrian tribes connected to Messapian . . Why don't you also go and look at MyTrueAncestry DNA of results where people even match that Daunian sample.

It's clear the Albanian language is linked to Illyrian and without J2b2-L283 there is no Illyrian at this point.

Why don't you talk about how J2b2-L283 is clearly accompanied by R1b-L23 and has been found together in Ancient Balkans, Caucasus etc.

I have already seen enough your former posts here and I know exactly what your agenda is. This place is a waste of time.

There are good guys like Trojet, Kelmendasi etc which I have learned a lot from and the Albanians at Anthrogenica . Dema got banned for 2 years in this place for no reason.

Good bye. Enjoy this place you loser.

Isolated Catholic mountains have the highest rate of J2b and very few Slavic place names. That's where Latin-speaking Illyrians survived the most, and were later assimilated by proto-Albanians speakers (E-V13 and R1b). So this admixture probably peaks in Gheg Malsors which explain why they are more Northern shifted with negligible Slavic Y-DNA than Tosks who have nearly 20% Slavic R1a+I2a.

Tosks are probably less than 15% Illyrian.

 

[enter_tain]

Nice cherrypicking.


Why don't you show us the % of J2b2 for some Northern Albanian Gheg areas where in some areas reaches like 30%-40%, only thing that puts this down overall is basically Southern Albania. And these frequencies that vary from region to region, even among Ghegs, are clearly bottle neck effects. Certainly don't see how this proves your theories. Especially considering Albanian is a language rich in Latin that clearly developed somewhere north of the Jirecek line. Albanians might be a mixture of Paleo-Balkan groups but not much that supports your theories of some Proto-Albanoid EV-13 Thracian tribe . Especially considering most Thracian tribes were Hellenized including the Bessi who were influenced by Greek. Albanian is clearly related to the Glasinac-Mati and Messapic.

Why don't you talk about Albanian, Dardani and other Illyrian tribes connected to Messapian . . Why don't you also go and look at MyTrueAncestry DNA of results where people even match that Daunian sample.

It's clear the Albanian language is linked to Illyrian and without J2b2-L283 there is no Illyrian at this point.

Why don't you talk about how J2b2-L283 is clearly accompanied by R1b-L23 and has been found together in Ancient Balkans, Caucasus etc.

I have already seen enough your former posts here and I know exactly what your agenda is. This place is a waste of time.

There are good guys like Trojet, Kelmendasi etc which I have learned a lot from and the Albanians at Anthrogenica . Dema got banned for 2 years in this place for no reason.

Good bye. Enjoy this place you loser.

These people's brains aren't functioning properly. Albanian language is supposedly "Thracian" because a quarter of people are EV13, when a quarter of Greeks are also EV13 with 0 ties to Thracian. Look at all these "Thracians".

Don't forget it was Dacian like 2 months ago, but there was 0 Dacians with EV13 in this study, so they switched to Thracian now.

Then they complain why % Y-DNA ratio of when Illyrians settled here 3500-4000 years ago aren't the same as today, when % Y-DNA ratios literally differ drastically from city to city, region to region even today. And all Albanians today are clearly strongly linked genetically by every study autosomally, IBD, etc..

 

[enter_tain]

Isolated Catholic mountains have the highest rate of J2b and very few Slavic place names. That's where Latin-speaking Illyrians survived the most, and were later assimilated by proto-Albanians speakers (E-V13 and R1b). So this admixture probably peaks in Gheg Malsors which explain why they are more Northern shifted with negligible Slavic Y-DNA than Tosks who have nearly 20% Slavic R1a+I2a.

Tosks are probably less than 15% Illyrian.

Another braindead moron. Albanian Illyrians in that study were more R1b than J2B2. Did R1b disappear all of a sudden that it needs to be imported?

% of Y-DNA do not determine ethnicity. Otherwise E would be African, J would be CHG. Albanians today are almost autosomally identical and have extremely high IBD.

 

[ihype02]

Another braindead moron. Albanian Illyrians in that study were more R1b than J2B2. Did R1b disappear all of a sudden that it needs to be imported?

% of Y-DNA do not determine ethnicity. Otherwise E would be African, J would be CHG. Albanians today are almost autosomally identical and have extremely high IBD.

What subclades do those R1b lines have?
I don't have a strong opinion about R1b, I think it is both Illyrian and East Balkanic.

 

[torzio]

What subclades do those R1b lines have?
I don't have a strong opinion about R1b, I think it is both Illyrian and East Balkanic.

ancient histrian, liburnian and Japodes lands have the same as North-east Italy...ie..R-L2

 

[PaleoRevenge]

That's like me saying you, Hawk, Johane Derite, and mount are the same person, because you back each other up. Can you not comprehend that you guys have your fantasy theory, and everyone else can see that the data points to Albanians being Illyrian? Dardania is called Illyrian in the Iron Age, we see J-L283 in East Serbia with E-V13 and R1b in the Roman times. Wait till we test Kosova, Bosnia, and get more samples from Southern Serbia and Montenegro, areas known to be Illyrian-dominated in the Iron Age, then when we see E-V13 together with J2b2 and R1b, you guys can know that E-V13 Thracians gave up cremation in favor of an Illyrian tumuli burial rite. Maybe then, you guys can stop crying. We are Thraco-Illyrians, in which Illyrian became the dominant cultural, linguistic, and genetic element. Why are Albanians not pulled in the direction of the Bulgaria E-V13 samples? We're pulled in the direction of HRV_IA, and we overlap with Ancient Macedonian samples and Byzantine Epirote samples. Why aren't the Ancient Macedonian samples pulled in the direction of the ancient Bulgarian E-V13 samples? Aren't the ancient Macedonians supposed to be Channeled Ware Thracoid Paeoni barbarians that got Hellenized? Weird, how they plot closer to Illyrians and Albanians, isn't it?

You can say what you want, go ahead and look like a dummy. Entrails, 1337 are the same person. The new Zlatan account communicates in the exact manner too, calling everyone a moron, brain rust this, insulting people in identical fashion. If you can't pick up characters traits, you have limitations.
Why are your boys resorting to this? No confidence in their arguments. It's pitiful too, they're not gaining any fans, to the loser that logs into 3 different accounts, go ahead keep up voting.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

What subclades do those R1b lines have?
I don't have a strong opinion about R1b, I think it is both Illyrian and East Balkanic.

It's definitely east, Albanian branch of Z2103 mushrooms(branches multiply) around 500 AD, no such behavior among J2b lines, so they were not the same ethnos, otherwise both would enjoy the same good flourishing time.

I personally think the barbarian raids into the empire initially benefited the early Albanians, R1b and some branches of E-V13 show expansion in the migration period. The collapse of authority gave the early Albanians freedom to expand onto Romanized populations habitat, and even raid them. Kind of like what happened in south Albania in the 1300s. Some of the major cities probably even relied on hiring Albanian protection when Byzantine troops were shifted east to defend against Persia, that would explain why Shtip and Nish were passed on to Slavs through Albanian mediation. Eventually though once the Slavs fully settled the squeeze came in. The final straw was the capture of Serdica by the Bulgars.

I am of the opinion that some of the E-V13 branches were picked up in this period of turmoil, brave Romanized locals that proved themselves worthy in the struggle against the Slavs were allowed tribal membership. It would explain why there is so many E-V13 clades that don't have a uniform presentation but show regional frequencies.

Sometime 800-900 AD, early Albanians moved west, and mostly settle over the Kruja-Komani habitat, some the southern groups though did not have much encounter with the Kruja-Komani people, and it shows through the low frequency of J2b.

 

[enter_tain]

What subclades do those R1b lines have?
I don't have a strong opinion about R1b, I think it is both Illyrian and East Balkanic.

R1b is THE Indo-European lineage. In the last paper it was 50/50 in Croatia, and like 60/40 in Albania. By your logic, Illyrians were "40% Illyrian". All those clades there can be found in Albania today. You can't "inherit J2B2" without R1b. That's now how genetics work.

I know J2B2 had high frequency in Illyrians, but let's not act like idiots and ignore R1b, J2a, J1, E, G, T, etc... all these would have been found in Illyrians. You can't just "mix" with J2b2 according to your logic, and ignore all the other Neolithic/Bronze Age shit.

 

[enter_tain]

It's definitely east, Albanian branch of Z2103 mushrooms(branches multiply) around 500 AD, no such behavior among J2b lines, so they were not the same ethnos, otherwise both would enjoy the same good flourishing time.

I personally think the barbarian raids into the empire initially benefited the early Albanians, R1b and some branches of E-V13 show expansion in the migration period. The collapse of authority gave the early Albanians freedom to expand onto Romanized populations habitat, and even raid them. Kind of like what happened in south Albania in the 1300s. Some of the major cities probably even relied on hiring Albanian protection when Byzantine troops were shifted east to defend against Persia, that would explain why Shtip and Nish were passed on to Slavs through Albanian mediation. Eventually though once the Slavs fully settled the squeeze came in. The final straw was the capture of Serdica by the Bulgars.

I am of the opinion that some of the E-V13 branches were picked up in this period of turmoil, brave Romanized locals that proved themselves worthy in the struggle against the Slavs were allowed tribal membership. It would explain why there is so many E-V13 clades that don't have a uniform presentation but show regional frequencies.

Sometime 800-900 AD, early Albanians moved west, and mostly settle over the Kruja-Komani habitat, some the southern groups though did not have much encounter with the Kruja-Komani people, and it shows through the low frequency of J2b.

You still haven't answered the question of why Greeks have the exact same % of EV13 as Albanians on the whole. You know why you don't answer? Because you're a bullshitter with the IQ of an earthworm.

You agenda morons are hilarious, because literally 0 archeogeneticists support your claim. Reich/Lazaridis specifically mentioned the Illyrian/Albanian continuity. You make up dumbass theories, that you can poke more holes through than Swiss cheese.

 

[enter_tain]

Sometime 800-900 AD, early Albanians moved west

Like I said, you are truly braindead. You cannot even gather basic facts, and resort to making up fake theories. Albanians have been in Albania before Slavic migrations, due to geographical treatment of loanwords in Geg/Tosk.

But this would require using your brain.

The two main Albanian dialect groups (or varieties), Gheg and Tosk, are primarily distinguished by phonological differences and are mutually intelligible in their standard varieties,^[16][17] with Gheg spoken to the north and Tosk spoken to the south of the Shkumbin river.^[18] Their characteristics^[19][20] in the treatment of both native words and loanwords provide evidence that the split into the northern and the southern dialects occurred after Christianisation of the region (4th century AD),^[21][22] and most likely not later than the 5th–6th centuries AD,^[23][24][25] hence occupying roughly their present area divided by the Shkumbin river since the Post-Roman and Pre-Slavic period, straddling the Jireček Line.^[26][27][28]

This dude was talking about "linguistics" when he literally knows nothing and every linguist says Albanians have been there pre-Slavic migrations (which the earliest documented Slavs arrived in Durres as early as the 500s).

 

[Olti27]

It's definitely east, Albanian branch of Z2103 mushrooms(branches multiply) around 500 AD, no such behavior among J2b lines, so they were not the same ethnos, otherwise both would enjoy the same good flourishing time.

I personally think the barbarian raids into the empire initially benefited the early Albanians, R1b and some branches of E-V13 show expansion in the migration period. The collapse of authority gave the early Albanians freedom to expand onto Romanized populations habitat, and even raid them. Kind of like what happened in south Albania in the 1300s. Some of the major cities probably even relied on hiring Albanian protection when Byzantine troops were shifted east to defend against Persia, that would explain why Shtip and Nish were passed on to Slavs through Albanian mediation. Eventually though once the Slavs fully settled the squeeze came in. The final straw was the capture of Serdica by the Bulgars.

I am of the opinion that some of the E-V13 branches were picked up in this period of turmoil, brave Romanized locals that proved themselves worthy in the struggle against the Slavs were allowed tribal membership. It would explain why there is so many E-V13 clades that don't have a uniform presentation but show regional frequencies.

Sometime 800-900 AD, early Albanians moved west, and mostly settle over the Kruja-Komani habitat, some the southern groups though did not have much encounter with the Kruja-Komani people, and it shows through the low frequency of J2b.

Kruja has an albanian etymology from krua/kroi (eng water spring). Kruja was first attested as a toponym by the byzantines in the 7th century AD as Κροαί (kroai). This means that albanian speakers have been in Kruja at least since the ~600 AD. Being way up in the mountain we can push its settlement even earlier (you need time to get there and settle) witch is confirmed by 5th and 6th century cemeteries with weapons found inside. What probably happened is that during the raids from Goths, Avars, Huns and Slavs starting in the 4th centyry AD, peoples from Albanopolis looking for shelter started moving up in the mountain in Kruja witch is just 4 km away in staight line.

 

[ihype02]

Albanians have substantial Thracian admixture. If you want to argue that this component is less dominant than the Illyrian one than that is an other story. But provide facts.

 

[Hawk]

Albanians have substantial Thracian admixture. If you want to argue that this component is less dominant than the Illyrian one than that is an other story. But provide facts.

IMO, E-V13 comes from the so called Balkan-Carpathian complex, from Northern Balkans, to Lower Danube and Carpathians. It included Thracians of course as main group, but perhaps even smaller groups that penetrated into Central Balkans. This could be from where Albanians got E-V13 and similar autosomal in addition to more Western Balkans Illyrian.

Now if new facts come in and rejects the theory i intend to believe then i have no choice, the only way i see E-V13 to have another option is extreme Eastern Balkans, Danubian Delta/Lower Danube, region around Dobruja, but how weird would it be that in that region a Neolithic group to survive (but i read it somewhere that Romanian/Serb/Hungarian archaeologists agree that the Lower Danubian Neolithic groups are the ones who put the greatest resistance and fight against Yamnaya, so who knows). But, you never know. I admit we might get surprised.

Also, J2b2-L283 as a Yamnaya lineage is unconvincing, except for Western Balkans we totally lack in Eastern Balkans were Yamnaya had strong presence, as well as Southern Balkans. I think they were incorporated late into this group (Late EBA probably), but probably way earlier than E-V13 who for prolonged time stuck in their own old way. The stamped and grooved (channeling) pottery cultures in Thrace is to be linked with E-V13, which sometimes they are also called ornamented Early/Eastern Hallstattian Cultures. While in more west they were likely present among Belegis-Gava II and more conservative Gava groups. Like we saw some few(2/3 if i am correct) E-V13 samples in and around Zagreb region, these groups during Early Iron Age heavily cremated their deaths.

Now, to me it looks like some E-V13 subclades like E-V13 FGC11450 (this seems to represent quite a large subclade lineage among Labs, Central Albania and slightly in some parts of Northern Albania) and some others probably represent one of the earliest group among Proto-Albanoids in Central Balkans. R1b-Z2105 is interesting, but in Early Middle Ages and before that we can assume that it had very few numbers. It's striking how it boomed after Early Middle Ages. But, no doubt that it's uniform presence among Albanians that it spread with them no matter if they were Illyrian-like, Paeonian/Dardanian-like or Thracian-like.

 

[mount123]

There are puppet accounts out here really arguing that "Zlatan" (interesting name dear "entertain") is a genuine account. Repetitive posts with the same rhetoric from multiple puppet accounts are not helping it. If the word obvious needs some prime example here it is.

One can make a point without the use of uncivilized manners or the opening of what 7,8,9 fake accounts? This is embarrassing.

 

[Excine]

Albanians have substantial Thracian admixture. If you want to argue that this component is less dominant than the Illyrian one than that is an other story. But provide facts.

No, they don't and stop playing around with fake G25 models to prove a point that makes no sense now that we know how southeast Thracians are like. I'm not even sure that you realize how big the difference is between Albanians and these southeast Thracians and how you can't replicate via qpADM any sort of feasible model which makes them related. The paper itself using formal methods argues against any non-Illyrian regional ancestry:



These are the "facts" that you keep ignoring written by Lazaridis and Reich themselves: