Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[blevins13]

I mapped your suggestions, I also added some I saw along the way like "Zabel".

We need some professional linguists that are also specialists of these old slavic dialects in these regions and proto-Albanian to run a systematic sweep of all toponyms and microtoponyms, I think it could be very fruitful.

That is the same place that is hypothesized as place of origin for Romanians.! Can Albanian and Romanians came form the same place?


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

 

[Johane Derite]

Are you sure these are not toponyms left by Albanians from Nish/Toplic/Vranje/Pirot during Middle Ages?

I dont know how much those groups would have been relevant in the bulgarian regions though.

 

[Hawk]

I dont know how much those groups would have been relevant in the bulgarian regions though.

The Seferis, Idriz Seferi who are Berish came from Pirot. His ancestor was a famous Albanian warrior Uk Burimi who was known for getting in trouble with Bulgarians.

That Bukurovc sounds too close to the village from Presheve Bukuroci. I am not sure but Albanians from Bukuroc-Presheve might be migrants from those areas.

 

[Johane Derite]

The Seferis, Idriz Seferi who are Berish came from Pirot. His ancestor was a famous Albanian warrior Uk Burimi who was known for getting in trouble with Bulgarians.

That Bukurovc sounds too close to the village from Presheve Bukuroci. I am not sure but Albanians from Bukuroc-Presheve might be migrants from those areas.

You think there was a sizeable enough Albanian population in southwest bulgaria in the middle ages bordering pirot and such that could have left these toponyms?

 

[Johane Derite]

That is the same place that is hypothesized as place of origin for Romanians.! Can Albanian and Romanians came form the same place?


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

The proto-Albanian and proto-romanian linguistic relationship requires that they were living next to each other in late antiqutiy

 

[Excine]

I believe in that region or near by lived a large amount of Vlachs

 

[broder]

Probably all date to Ottoman period, if they derive from Albanian. Zabel definitely doesn’t though.

 

[Hawk]

You think there was a sizeable enough Albanian population in southwest bulgaria in the middle ages bordering pirot and such that could have left these toponyms?

I am not sure about this.

 

[Dushman]

Nice, it’s plausible Proto-Albanians originate from there, deep into Thracian territory and potential high Greek influence, surrounded by settlements ending with -para and -deva, but God forbid they were near Scodra and Dyrrhachium.

 

[Pashai Janinës]

I mapped your suggestions, I also added some I saw along the way like "Zabel".

We need some professional linguists that are also specialists of these old slavic dialects in these regions and proto-Albanian to run a systematic sweep of all toponyms and microtoponyms, I think it could be very fruitful.

Before "mapping" you should learn some ......Albanian language.
In Albanian language there is the word ar/ë and there is also the word arr/ë. These are two different words. Ar/ë in English is translated arable land meanwhile arr/ë is translated walnut.
BTW, i don't know what scientific methodology have you guys used when you link for example the toponym Dumbija with the Albanian dhëmb(tooth). Personally to me this toponym sounds more closer to the English dumbass.

 

[Johane Derite]

methodology have you guys used when you link for example the toponym Dumbija with the Albanian dhëmb(tooth). Personally to me this toponym sounds more closer to the English dumbass.

What about the Albanian word Bukur, you think this is unrelated to the two places Bukurovtsi and Bukurovac. These are totally unrelated to Albanian correct?

Meanwhile names like epicados, very albanian

 

[Pashai Janinës]

What about the Albanian word Bukur, you think this is unrelated to the two places Bukurovtsi and Bukurovac. These are totally unrelated to Albanian correct?
Meanwhile names like epicados, very albanian

Maybe those toponyms are related to the Albanian word bukur, maybe because we know nothing about those toponyms. Maybe even Bukuresht is from bukur është, maybe. But between Grapa and Gropa ce in mezzo il mare. Science doesn't work following your imagination but certain rules and criterias.
You have no idea about Albanian names. Trust me. Start first with learning some Albanian Language.
Btw, nice try in cherry picking. lol.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

I mapped your suggestions, I also added some I saw along the way like "Zabel".

We need some professional linguists that are also specialists of these old slavic dialects in these regions and proto-Albanian to run a systematic sweep of all toponyms and microtoponyms, I think it could be very fruitful.

Zabel is Slavic borrowing. When I made that list I also took a lot of time to search for similar toponyms in other Slavic countries, to make sure I was not just getting carried away. These toponyms are unique in the Slavic world, they only occur in this region. There are two Dreatin in Bulgaria btw, both near eachother. Resen might be occurring among Slavic countries, but rest are not. What interesting about this region is some of these toponyms mirror each other, they occur on both sides of the border suggesting this region was linguistically one unit.
Bukurovtsi - Bulgaria, Bukurovac - Serbia
Kambelevetsi - Bulgaria, Kambelevci - Serbia
Gaganitsa - Bulgaria, Gagince - Serbia
Lyalintsi - Bulgaria, Lalince - Serbia

So I would that these as well,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lalince
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gagince
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kambelevci
http://www.fallingrain.com/world/RI/00/Gola_Cuka.html

http://www.fallingrain.com/world/RI/00/Bukarci.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berilovac

http://www.fallingrain.com/world/RI/B9/Surdulica.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ljuberađa






Cuka, related to Albanian Cuke (peak on mountain ridge).
Bukarci, possibly another corruption of bukur.
Berilovac, based on Serbian sources, named after a male named Berilo (burel, berryl) in the middle ages (non-Slavic names that lingered for a time).
Surdulica - Shurdh
Ljuberađa - Looks very alien to Slavic. Could be a corruption of lumbardhe.

Macedonia:
http://www.fallingrain.com/world/MK/62/Bukoravenci.html
http://www.fallingrain.com/world/MK/97/Dzambasci.html

Dzambasci - Gjemb(thorn)? The word structure is again alien to Slavic throat.

Some of these as blevins noted can also be Romanian/Vlach, like Cuke, Shurdh, grapa, however given the fact that other toponyms of the area are restricted to Albanian explanation, I favor a early Albanian explanation. Like I said in the original post, getting census information from the middle ages would help, because for these toponyms to survive a branch of the early Albanians had to have stayed behind and get absorbed by the Slavs.

As I noted before on the Bulgarian settement of Lyalintsi:
Lyalintsi (Bulgarian: Лялинци) is a village in Tran Municipality, Pernik Province. It is located in western Bulgaria, 65 km from the capital city of Sofia. The village was first mentioned in 1446 as Lelintsi and in 1455 as Lyalintsi. It is derived from the personal name Lyalya, "aunt", the nickname lyalya or lala.

Lala is Albanian, if that's a slang for aunt among Slavs, I would like to see someone prove it. It is a slang for uncle or big brother among Albanians and Arberesh.
https://www.familysearch.org/en/surname?surname=LAFA

 

[PaleoRevenge]

What about the Albanian word Bukur, you think this is unrelated to the two places Bukurovtsi and Bukurovac. These are totally unrelated to Albanian correct?
Meanwhile names like epicados, very albanian

He is chimping out. Arrez is found even in Hoti region in Montenegro, in Serbian spelling it is almost the same as Bulgarian Arzan.
http://www.fallingrain.com/world/MJ/00/Arza.html

It's also found in Funar region of Chameria, you can see it in old maps, and of course all over Albania. Pretty much entirely absent in Slavic countries. The toponym is strongly linked with Albanian presence.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Delvine has nothing to do with Dalmatia. This is the typical hysterical way how these clowns force a Illyrian connection, this is their proof.

Delvine toponym is restricted to south Albania, it occurs in Epirus as well, and the Greeks associate with Albanians. They for whatever reason associated with vineyards. I do not know how they arrived at that conclusion since that word is not used as far as I know for vineyard.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delvinaki



Or did Illyrians settle in south-west Bulgaria?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delvino,_Blagoevgrad_Province

 

[Excine]

It's truly incredible how medieval and modern toponyms which obviously exist in eastern Serbia and northwestern Bulgaria because of Vlachs and maybe Albanians who moved there in the late medieval and Ottoman era, somehow became "Proto-Albanian" and proof that "maybe" Proto-Albanian was spoken just in this corner of the Balkans which was strongly influenced by Greek


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jireček_Line#/media/File:Language_border_(Matzinger).png


Even more dubious are the etymologies themselves. Almost all of these make 0 linguistic sense for a connection with Albanian.


They're so absurd that somehow Resen, a Slavic toponym which also exists on the borders of Albania-North Macedonia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resen,_North_Macedonia somehow became .... Rreshen only for Derite to claim that Albanians migrated from northwestern Bulgaria to Mirdita!! It's absolutely fringe.


Not a single linguist or even someone who has attended any sort of university class about linguistics would ever propose such a thing.


Once more we see obvious, pseudo-scientific, fringe speculation.





Finding some medieval Albanian toponyms in Bulgaria isn't even uncommon because Albanians did migrate to Bulgaria. That's why toponyms like
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbanasi_(Veliko_Tarnovo) Arbanasi exist. Or are you going to claim next that the name "Arben"/"Arban" comes from Bulgaria?

 

[Hawk]

Zabel is Slavic borrowing. When I made that list I also took a lot of time to search for similar toponyms in other Slavic countries, to make sure I was not just getting carried away. These toponyms are unique in the Slavic world, they only occur in this region. There are two Dreatin in Bulgaria btw, both near eachother. Resen might be occurring among Slavic countries, but rest are not. What interesting about this region is some of these toponyms mirror each other, they occur on both sides of the border suggesting this region was linguistically one unit.
Bukurovtsi - Bulgaria, Bukurovac - Serbia
Kambelevetsi - Bulgaria, Kambelevci - Serbia
Gaganitsa - Bulgaria, Gagince - Serbia
Lyalintsi - Bulgaria, Lalince - Serbia

So I would that these as well,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lalince
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gagince
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kambelevci
http://www.fallingrain.com/world/RI/00/Gola_Cuka.html

http://www.fallingrain.com/world/RI/00/Bukarci.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berilovac

http://www.fallingrain.com/world/RI/B9/Surdulica.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ljuberađa






Cuka, related to Albanian Cuke (peak on mountain ridge).
Bukarci, possibly another corruption of bukur.
Berilovac, based on Serbian sources, named after a male named Berilo (burel, berryl) in the middle ages (non-Slavic names that lingered for a time).
Surdulica - Shurdh
Ljuberađa - Looks very alien to Slavic. Could be a corruption of lumbardhe.

Macedonia:
http://www.fallingrain.com/world/MK/62/Bukoravenci.html
http://www.fallingrain.com/world/MK/97/Dzambasci.html

Dzambasci - Gjemb(thorn)? The word structure is again alien to Slavic throat.

Some of these as blevins noted can also be Romanian/Vlach, like Cuke, Shurdh, grapa, however given the fact that other toponyms of the area are restricted to Albanian explanation, I favor a early Albanian explanation. Like I said in the original post, getting census information from the middle ages would help, because for these toponyms to survive a branch of the early Albanians had to have stayed behind and get absorbed by the Slavs.

As I noted before on the Bulgarian settement of Lyalintsi:
Lyalintsi (Bulgarian: Лялинци) is a village in Tran Municipality, Pernik Province. It is located in western Bulgaria, 65 km from the capital city of Sofia. The village was first mentioned in 1446 as Lelintsi and in 1455 as Lyalintsi. It is derived from the personal name Lyalya, "aunt", the nickname lyalya or lala.

Lala is Albanian, if that's a slang for aunt among Slavs, I would like to see someone prove it. It is a slang for uncle or big brother among Albanians and Arberesh.
https://www.familysearch.org/en/surname?surname=LAFA

Many of those words look interesting, but i must agree Albanian presence in Western Bulgaria during Ottoman times is weak, Pirot was the border and they were in constant clash with Bulgarians there.

One more thing, Ljuborada is not alien to Slavic, it looks 100% Slavic to me.

Ljubo=love,passion and rada=born

 

[Hawk]

It's truly incredible how medieval and modern toponyms which obviously exist in eastern Serbia and northwestern Bulgaria because of Vlachs and maybe Albanians who moved there in the late medieval and Ottoman era, somehow became "Proto-Albanian" and proof that "maybe" Proto-Albanian was spoken just in this corner of the Balkans which was strongly influenced by Greek


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jireček_Line#/media/File:Language_border_(Matzinger).png


Even more dubious are the etymologies themselves. Almost all of these make 0 linguistic sense for a connection with Albanian.


They're so absurd that somehow Resen, a Slavic toponym which also exists on the borders of Albania-North Macedonia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resen,_North_Macedonia somehow became .... Rreshen only for Derite to claim that Albanians migrated from northwestern Bulgaria to Mirdita!! It's absolutely fringe.


Not a single linguist or even someone who has attended any sort of university class about linguistics would ever propose such a thing.


Once more we see obvious, pseudo-scientific, fringe speculation.





Finding some medieval Albanian toponyms in Bulgaria isn't even uncommon because Albanians did migrate to Bulgaria. That's why toponyms like
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbanasi_(Veliko_Tarnovo) Arbanasi exist. Or are you going to claim next that the name "Arben"/"Arban" comes from Bulgaria?

He just proposed with a question mark in the end, not stamping anything at all. Just like PaleoRevenge said, your baby tantrums are annoying

 

[blevins13]

The proto-Albanian and proto-romanian linguistic relationship requires that they were living next to each other in late antiqutiy

The next to each other is not overlapping each other or mixed with each other. Are you proposing that Albanian and Romanian villages were mixed in that area?


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

 

[Pashai Janinës]

The next to each other is not overlapping each other or mixed with each other. Are you proposing that Albanian and Romanian villages were mixed in that area?
Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

Ça e zgjasni kot këtë muhabet. Tjetri është nga Kosova, të paktën kështu pretendon dhe nuk e di që gati 150 vjet më parë jugu I Serbisë ishte I banuar rrafsh me shqiptarë autoktonë në ato territore të cilët u spastruan nga serbët. Nuk e dinë këta as njëri dhe as tjetri dhe prandaj hapin sytë si idiotë kur shikojnë ndonjë toponim që u ngjason si Shqiptar. Jo vetëm kaq, por shtyhen kaq shumë sa shpalosin edhe teorinë se etnogjeneza e shqiptarëve zë fill në atë zonë! Edhe ljuba na doli fjalë Shqipe tani. E pabesueshme por e vërtetë, na nxorën bojën faqe botës me karllëqet e tyre. Marrëzia njerëzore nuk paska fund.