Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[Johane Derite]

Damn, excine really went and got a 117 page thread locked because some new articles from 2022 were posted that didn't line up with his fantasies

Excine:

"In my opinion, this topic should be temporarily locked until the situation is resolved, as a suspiciously large number of sock accounts have been created in recent weeks."

Jeez, if this isn't some sad case of teacher's pet / snitch behaviour, taddle tale

The dude literally requesting in public (im sure also in dms was begging to get me banned, alongside the other lames) to have a good thread deleted. And now he deleted his comments where he was tryna cover it up

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread...n-of-Albanians&p=876775&viewfull=1#post876775

 

[ihype02]

Entertain says that E-V13 in Albanians is mostly founder effect and that there is minor Thracian contribution or non-Illyrian assocatied with E-V13 in modern Albanians.
What about you others? Can you bring your own theories why 1/4 of Albanian males belong to E-V13?

 

[Excine]

Damn, excine really went and got a 117 page thread locked because some new articles from 2022 were posted that didn't line up with his fantasies

Excine:

"In my opinion, this topic should be temporarily locked until the situation is resolved, as a suspiciously large number of sock accounts have been created in recent weeks."

Jeez, if this isn't some sad case of teacher's pet / snitch behaviour, taddle tale

The dude literally requesting in public (im sure also in dms was begging to get me banned, alongside the other lames) to have a good thread deleted. And now he deleted his comments where he was tryna cover it up

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post876775

I have locked the thread, LOL? Excellent. How about the fact that you and your chums created many accounts in order to harass our alias? Does this strike a bell, or are you going to dismiss this fact? You caused significant disturbance, and you understand why. There is obviously something wrong with you, so you should not act wise. You are too preoccupied; did the latest update to the R1b sample in Cinamak set you off, you spoiled brat? And no, no one in DMs was begging anyone. You have been banned because you create new accounts whenever you have the time and with the intention of imitating other users. It's quite amusing how you're making yourself appear; let's not Twitter know about this!

 

[Excine]

Johane I am aware that your heart is aching. Why don't you take one of your fancy Internet breaks? Or is the heat too intense, burning you from the inside out?

 

[Excine]

You once again derailed the Thread with Bessi-related garbage after we believed the topic was finished. You brought it up immediately when you lacked a counterargument. You are incredibly knowledgeable, pal.

 

[Johane Derite]

Entertain says that E-V13 in Albanians is mostly founder and that there is minor Thracian contribution or non-Illyrian assocatied with E-V13 in modern Albanians.
What about you others? Can you bring your own theories why 1/4 of Albanian males belong to E-V13?

This is the position of Bruzmi also, that it is a very minor lineage which had a founder effect in the roman era.
I think his hypothesis is a forced one just to muddy the water and distract from focus, i.e. damage control about the ev13s in thrace, the absence of ev13s in the west, etc.
Lets not forget that their side is also outright making things up, like saying Brnjica culture doesn't exist, etc (imagine if I was saying that Glasinac-Mati culture didn't exist to try push my arguments, the difference in ethics here is absurd, but they don't care as long as it keeps the circlejerk undisturbed).

 

[Riverman]

Entertain says that E-V13 in Albanians is mostly founder and that there is minor Thracian contribution or non-Illyrian assocatied with E-V13 in modern Albanians.
What about you others? Can you bring your own theories why 1/4 of Albanian males belong to E-V13?

E-V13 will be seen in Illyrians in the Iron Age, but not before. So it came from Thracians, directly and indirectly, but not at one time, at least that's my position at the moment. It's also possible that there was in Antiquity or Late Antiquity a large scale fusion of two separate units, one E-V13 from the North with local Illyrians in the Southern Central Balkans.
But all of that is just theory at the moment, without more sampling from the Iron Age and Antiquity.

 

[Johane Derite]

E-V13 will be seen in Illyrians in the Iron Age, but not before. So it came from Thracians, directly and indirectly, but not at one time, at least that's my position at the moment. It's also possible that there was in Antiquity or Late Antiquity a large scale fusion of two separate units, one E-V13 from the North with local Illyrians in the Southern Central Balkans.
But all of that is just theory at the moment, without more sampling from the Iron Age and Antiquity.

Obviously, if the hypothesis that chanelled ware spread ev13 is correct, then i agree that we should expect ev13 in albania since LBA-EIA since that is when chanelled ware appears in Albania. Ive said this a couple of times here.

Also, I wonder what type of autosomal signature these chanelled ware migrants brought to these places in Albania, note that Kukës here has chanelled ware also, so this is relevant for cinamak also.

 

[Hawk]

Obviously, if the hypothesis that chanelled ware spread ev13 is correct, then i agree that we should expect ev13 in albania since LBA-EIA since that is when chanelled ware appears in Albania. Ive said this a couple of times here.
Also, I wonder what type of autosomal signature these chanelled ware migrants brought to these places in Albania, note that Kukës here has chanelled ware also, so this is relevant for cinamak also.

I wouldn't take this map too literally. Based on some writings the Channeled-Ware also known as Kanellure and otherwise in English Grooved appeared mostly in Devoll/Lofkend areas. Which is basically Central and South-East Albania.

Below you can find a screenshot from Frano Prendi writing, turbandish means knobbed/channeled-ware in his writings. He also does refer it as Kanellure. But he claimed there was no such mass migration in Albania from these people. Of course it's up to speculation about his viewpoint.

Approximately, we can see from archaeological records that Enchelei practiced cremation, and it's the low-mound having on top a pyre. It's worth to note because Enchelei appear approximately nearby where the influence of this cultural complex was noted.

On this occasion, special attention is given to the Tomb of the Warriors (Tomb 1) in which 6 warriors were buried together with their complete military armor. The tomb (dimensions: 5.50 x 4.50 m) was built with a row of larger limestone blocks, and after the cremation burial it was filled with amorphous stones and earth, shaping a low mound-like structure. The pyre was set in the central part of the tomb, and around it, embedded and arranged in a specially brought lake sand, were the military attributes: 6 bronze helmets, 11 greaves, and 15 iron spears, with features suggesting some military subordination or simply warriors who have died in a battle being “the Leader and his comrades.”The tomb represents an initial base for discussions that would contribute to the further shedding of light about the individual “princes’ tombs” of the Trebeništa necropolis that are still insufficiently “illuminated”. This tomb construction is in close proximity to two more Late Archaic tombs: one with a cremated deceased person (Tomb 132) and the other with an inhumed deceased person – a child (Tomb 167) – a parallel occurrence of inhumation and cremation, which allows discussion for many other significant conclusions, compared to the results determined in other Archaic necropolises with similar funerary ritual approaches and similarly rich offerings discovered in the Balkans, more precisely those located along the old prehistoric Candavian road communication, and the future road from Antiquity – the Via Egnatia (along the Trebeništa necropolis near Ohrid and Petilep-Beranci near Bitola, Archontiko near Pella and Sindos near Thessaloniki).Specifically, given all the circumstances, our Tomb of the Warriors, we can say, represents an archaeological geyser of knowledge of the Enheleian (Engeleian) tribal community which inhabited the area of Lychnis at the time.


https://pebasite.wordpress.com/peba-2020/representations-of-power-an-ancient-macedonian-elite/

We are yet to see this full picture. If during classical time, in Trebenista E-V13 appears that's a solid connection here. Otherwise, it was either not a mass-migration and just adaption.

 

[Hawk]

Entertain says that E-V13 in Albanians is mostly founder effecr and that there is minor Thracian contribution or non-Illyrian assocatied with E-V13 in modern Albanians.
What about you others? Can you bring your own theories why 1/4 of Albanian males belong to E-V13?

He is highly intellectual, according to him E-V13 arose in percentage when the Berisha clan decided to have 16 children, and they spread all over Europe.

We are asking too much of him, he'll stick to his one-liners and dodging the point forever in a flat circle.

 

[Johane Derite]

I wouldn't take this map too literally. Based on some writings the Channeled-Ware also known as Kanellure and otherwise in English Grooved appeared mostly in Devoll/Lofkend areas. Which is basically Central and South-East Albania.

Below you can find a screenshot from Frano Prendi writing, turbandish means knobbed/channeled-ware in his writings. He also does refer it as Kanellure. But he claimed there was no such mass migration in Albania from these people. Of course it's up to speculation about his viewpoint.

Approximately, we can see from archaeological records that Enchelei practiced cremation, and it's the low-mound having on top a pyre. It's worth to note because Enchelei appear approximately nearby where the influence of this cultural complex was noted.



We are yet to see this full picture. If during classical time, in Trebenista E-V13 appears that's a solid connection here.

This image was made in 2010 by Seth Pevnick and Esmeralda Agolli of the Lofkend Archaeological project, so I consider it more up to date than Prendi's localisations.

Also interesting to note how hard Prendi's trying to minimise possibility of any migrants bringing the chanelled ware in those quotes, obviously aware how much it complicates the Illyrian narrative they needed.

Link:
http://www.aegeobalkanprehistory.net/index.php?p=article&id_art=18

 

[Hawk]

This image was made in 2010 by Seth Pevnick and Esmeralda Agolli of the Lofkend Archaeological project, so I consider it more up to date than Prendi's localisations.

Also interesting to note how hard Prendi's trying to minimise possibility of any migrants bringing the chanelled ware in those quotes, obviously aware how much it complicates the Illyrian narrative they needed.

Link:
http://www.aegeobalkanprehistory.net/index.php?p=article&id_art=18

2nd quote in English should be up to date, the first in Albanian is from long time ago. And, i agree that he would try to minimize to appease a more simpler image. But you still never know. Perhaps he was right. And there is only one way to know.

 

[Johane Derite]

2nd quote in English should be up to date, the first in Albanian is from long time ago. And, i agree that he would try to minimize to appease a more simpler image. But you still never know. Perhaps he was right. And there is only one way to know.

Yes, but the second quote mentioned that it appears in north albania and as far as kosova, but was going into more specific subtypes of chanelled ware (horizontal chanelling vs vertical, etc)

 

[ihype02]

Constantine VII says the inhabitants of 10th century Albania were "Romans". Probably Latin speaking Romans.

 

[Excine]

Constantine VII says the inhabitants of 10th century Albania were "Romans". Probably Latin speaking Romans.

Ah yes, one obscure description means a whole lot. Don't take this seriously please.

 

[enter_tain]

Constantine VII says the inhabitants of 10th century Albania were "Romans". Probably Latin speaking Romans.

How many times does this have to be explained... Geg/Tosk split 4th to 6th century around Shkumbin.

How dense can you get?

 

[enter_tain]

He is highly intellectual, according to him E-V13 arose in percentage when the Berisha clan decided to have 16 children, and they spread all over Europe.

We are asking too much of him, he'll stick to his one-liners and dodging the point forever in a flat circle.

I said the regional peaks of EV13 are due to that, because EV13 is usually 15-20% in southern Europe. EV13 is a wave that washed all of southern/central Europe. 15% of Italy alone is 9 million people (or 4.5m if you want to count men only). Is that due to "Proto-Albanians" or "Thracians"?

And stop with your lame ironies, because I literally pinpointed you to Rrenjet saying in some major cities 10% of all lineages go down to 1 Berisha that lived 500 years ago. It's not my fault your brain can't process basic information.

"[FONT=&quot]Rezultatet nga fisi Berishë i takojnë kryesisht degëzimit [/FONT]E-Y93102>Y91573[FONT=&quot], paraardhësi i të cilës vlerësohet të ketë jetuar para rreth 500 vitesh... [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Sidoqoftë, paraardhësi i përbashkët i gjithë këtyre rezultateve që përmendëm ka qenë sigurisht diku në pjesën veriore të trojeve shqiptare gjatë Mesjetës. Sot përbën rreth 2-3% të gjithë linjave atërore shqiptare, por në Pukë, Tropojë, Kosovë e Luginë të Preshevës mbërrin deri në 10%, kurse në krahinat e tjera shqiptare është nën 1%"[/FONT]

 

[enter_tain]

This is the position of Bruzmi also, that it is a very minor lineage which had a founder effect in the roman era.
I think his hypothesis is a forced one just to muddy the water and distract from focus, i.e. damage control about the ev13s in thrace, the absence of ev13s in the west, etc.
Lets not forget that their side is also outright making things up, like saying Brnjica culture doesn't exist, etc (imagine if I was saying that Glasinac-Mati culture didn't exist to try push my arguments, the difference in ethics here is absurd, but they don't care as long as it keeps the circlejerk undisturbed).

How is this a "forced hypothesis"? EV13 is all over Europe. It's almost 10% in Hungary and Austria. It's 15% in Italy. 20% in Greece, with peaks of >=30%. You can find EV13 in England, France, Scandinavia, Spain etc... with clear peaks.

This is clearly due to the Roman Empire. In fact, I'd say there's a strong correlation with the so called "Roman Imperial" admixture.

You guys are obsessed with EV13 in Albanians while forgetting it's all over southern Europe and the Balkans (in both Greek and Slavic speaking areas).

Trying to pinpoint this wide reach to "Daco-Thracians" is straight up pathetic and shows that you're just dumb agenda pushers

 

[ihype02]

How is this a "forced hypothesis"? EV13 is all over Europe. It's almost 10% in Hungary and Austria. It's 15% in Italy. 20% in Greece, with peaks of >=30%. You can find EV13 in England, France, Scandinavia, Spain etc... with clear peaks.
This is clearly due to the Roman Empire. In fact, I'd say there's a strong correlation with the so called "Roman Imperial" admixture.

You guys are obsessed with EV13 in Albanians while forgetting it's all over southern Europe and the Balkans (in both Greek and Slavic speaking areas).
Trying to pinpoint this wide reach to "Daco-Thracians" is straight up pathetic and shows that you're just dumb agenda pushers

Look at map that YOU posted yourself or you can even look for statistics online, E-V13 is 5% to 10% in Italy.
Second nobody is claiming all E-V13 in Europe is Thracian. E-V13 has been found in Thracians, Spain, Central Europe. And many other place in future. It can be a founder effect to a certian degree in some places but YOU have NO proof to give it was so.
E-V13 in Greece is very likely not Ancient Greek. And can be explained with Medieval migrations and some contact with Ancient Thracians.
Your claim that most E-V13 is a result of founder effectc is just ....

 

[enter_tain]

Look at map that YOU posted yourself or you can even look for statistics online, E-V13 is 5% to 10% in Italy.
Second nobody is claiming all E-V13 in Europe is Thracian. E-V13 has been found in Thracians, Spain, Central Europe. And many other place in future. It can be a founder effect to a certian degree in some places but YOU have NO proof to give it was so.
E-V13 in Greece is very likely not Ancient Greek. And can be explained with Medieval migrations and some contact with Ancient Thracians.
Your claim that most E-V13 is a result of founder effectc is just ....

Check Maciamo's tables for specific numbers by region.

The issue here is this is not an Albanian-specific thing. All the Balkans/southern Europe became EV13-heavy during the times of the Roman Empire. There was no EV13 in ancient Italy/Greece, then it becomes frequent on the range of 15-20%, where in places like Albania, Montenegro, Romania, Bulgaria, parts of Greece it goes >20/30%.

It's ok though. Recognizing patterns is what IQ is for. Not much of that with some of you.

Your claim that most E-V13 is a result of founder effectc is just ....

You realize every Y-DNA literally starts with 1 guy? How the hell do you think it goes from 1 guy to millions?

Seriously, do you know anything about genetics?