Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

I have been thinking of whether Albanian is directly descended from Yamnaya, that would mean it was the northern neighbor of Greek, but a lot of linguists actually disagree with that, Albanian-Greek have few etymological and shared influences to attest for that, to have been neighbors from Early Bronze Age. Unless, Albanoid-like languages were spoken more widely north of Greece and a variant of it which didn't border Greek survived.

2nd option is the Balkan-Carpathian cultural complex during Late Bronze Age which is quite attractive and connects a lot of dots.

3rd and last option would be Illyrian, which is being dismissed by an Albanologist like Matzinger (2021 Der Illyrer).

To divide which is which with between Albanians and Greek will be difficult, but even if they come from the same source, they don’t come at the same time, and the path followed from Ukraine to Albania from Proto-Greeks and Proto1 Albanian it is different. It seems that the Proto- Albanian group split first from Yamnaya and after we have the split of the Proto-Armenian and Proto-Greeks are the last to split.



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So let me get this straight dawg...
His argument now is that Albanians are not descendants of Illyrians? because proto-Albanians assimilated Cetina (proto-Illyrians) in 1700BC?
Is this it? Is this what a tenured linguist looks like, keeping his n-th failed theory on life support with arguments that don't make sense even for a netflix plot?
confused.gif
:LOL:

More like "Netflix lost for words after script gets stolen"... :LOL:

Nope he didnt say that. Again I understand that you guys are having a hard week, first with ev13 showing up all over thrace, now with further confirmation that Albanian is not Illyrian, but you should refrain from buying Bruzmis cope as a legitimate account of what was said.

Matzinger literally has a 2022 book about how the illyrian language, rich with names like Scerdilaidas, etc, are not of the Albanian language.

Like, its not a matter of "calling them illyrians" its a matter of their being a living language that was illyrian, and that is not the ancestir of Albanian. Why cant u grasp this
 
. but we can't call all these people Illyrians because they weren't the "real Illyrians"even though everybody called them so, it's pointless to discuss with you.

Nope, we cant call messapics illyrians because illyrians spoke a different language, illyrians spoke a language that wasnt the ancestor of albanian.

This is like insisting to call albanian turk or something because some muslim albos used to call themselves turk.

Albanian isnt illyrian
 
So much for "Albanian came from Daco-Thraco-Moeso-Panonia in the CE"... Imagine picking options a, b, c on a multiple choice and it being d.
The cope and mental gymnastics incoming by the "too smart to argue with plebs" pseudo linguist in the thread will be glorious to behold :LOL:
 
So let me get this straight dawg...
His argument now is that Albanians are not descendants of Illyrians? because proto-Albanians assimilated Cetina (proto-Illyrians) in 1700BC?
Is this it? Is this what a tenured linguist looks like, keeping his n-th failed theory on life support with arguments that don't make sense even for a netflix plot?
confused.gif
:LOL:

More like "Netflix lost for words after script gets stolen"... :LOL:


Yes, they're trying hard to cope with reality. Because they can't ignore the obvious relevancy of haplogroups like J-L283 for Messapians and Albanians they have to invent a fusion for a "Proto-Messapic" with Cetina in 1700 BC.

I'm also curious as to how they can still try to claim that Albanian wasn't spoken in Iron Age Albania with their model:

M20.png


It's getting more and more desperate for these authors and more and more pathetic for the people like Johane Derite who just a week ago was promoting fringe propaganda about the Bessi and Albanoid in Thrace.
 
To divide which is which with between Albanians and Greek will be difficult, but even if they come from the same source, they don’t come at the same time, and the path followed from Ukraine to Albania from Proto-Greeks and Proto1 Albanian it is different. It seems that the Proto- Albanian group split first from Yamnaya and after we have the split of the Proto-Armenian and Proto-Greeks are the last to split.



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Further Iron Age, Classical samples from Serbia/Macedonia/Albania/North Greece will just clarify more the issue.
 
So much for "Albanian came from Daco-Thraco-Moeso-Panonia in the CE"... Imagine picking options a, b, c on a multiple choice and it being d.
The cope and mental gymnastics incoming by the "too smart to argue with plebs" pseudo linguist in the thread will be glorious to behold :LOL:

But in the late antiquity that is where it most likely came from? You cannot graps basic chronological difference between location of proto-Albanian in 1700BC and in 100 AD? You guys are really losing it.
 
Yes, they're trying hard to cope with reality. Because they can't ignore the obvious relevancy of haplogroups like J-L283 for Messapians and Albanians they have to invent a fusion for a "Proto-Messapic" with Cetina in 1700 BC.
I'm also curious as to how they can still try to claim that Albanian wasn't spoken in Iron Age Albania with their model:
M20.png

It's getting more and more desperate for these authors and more and more pathetic for the people like Johane Derite who just a week ago was promoting fringe propaganda about the Bessi and Albanoid in Thrace.
No, you dont seem to grasp that the proto-messapics seem to have chopped their way westward, through the centum illyrians.

The proto-messapics cant just teleport from the encircled area into italy.


J283 is the centum illyrian representative, maybe the dominant messapics assimilated some lineages of theirs on their conquest west as they chopped through illyrians
 
Yes, they're trying hard to cope with reality. Because they can't ignore the obvious relevancy of haplogroups like J-L283 for Messapians and Albanians they have to invent a fusion for a "Proto-Messapic" with Cetina in 1700 BC.

I'm also curious as to how they can still try to claim that Albanian wasn't spoken in Iron Age Albania with their model:

M20.png


It's getting more and more desperate for these authors and more and more pathetic for the people like Johane Derite who just a week ago was promoting fringe propaganda about the Bessi and Albanoid in Thrace.

The biggest lul is that his theory is a 180* shift from his last stance (stances he changes every 5 years for 15 years now lol), now instead of claiming discontinuity from Illyrian to proto-Albanian, he is claiming continuity from proto-Albanian to Illyrian to Albanian.. that has to be the most based thing I have read yet (and I like to read quite a bit).

Also pretty much all his modeled movements vis-a-vis Albanians based on current samples and fstats have some logic. Logkas can be used to model Albanian, Albania EBA can be used to model Cetina, but I'm sure we will find high Steppe straight out of Yamnaya samples from Croatia if we haven't already (have not checked all the HRV BA samples). Also Cetina can be used to model modern Albania :D.
 
No, you dont seem to grasp that the proto-messapics seem to have chopped their way westward, through the centum illyrians.
The proto-messapics cant just teleport from the encircled area into italy.
J283 is the centum illyrian representative, maybe the dominant messapics assimilated some lineages of theirs on their conquest west as they chopped through illyrians

"chopped through Illyrians"? LOL Once more your bias shows itself. Proto-Messapics didn't "chop" any Illyrians. Most of the Messapians are J-L283 so far and the Proto-Messapics are the people known as Illyrians.

Just a week ago you were pretending that R-Z2705 was the Proto-Albanian haplogroup. It formed 2600 ybp and now Matzinger comes and says that Proto-Albanian = at least 2200 BCE. One more theory of yours debunked but you try to pretend that nothing happened to save face and not lose audience.

Try to cope as hard as you want. It's over for your theories.
 
, he is claiming continuity from proto-Albanian to Illyrian to Albanian.. that has to be the most based thing I have read yet (and I like to read quite a bit).

.

No... he isnt. What are you smoking
 
Now that all of these idiots have been refuted, and their crazy spaghetti pot of theories have been debunked, can we finally get some serious scholars and linguists to study our Albanian language?
 
But in the late antiquity that is where it most likely came from? You cannot graps basic chronological difference between location of proto-Albanian in 1700BC and in 100 AD? You guys are really losing it.



You cannot graps basic chronological difference between location of proto-Albanian in 1700BC and in 100 AD?
st,small,845x845-pad,1000x1000,f8f8f8.jpg



The cope and mental gymnastics incoming by the "too smart to argue with plebs" pseudo linguist in the thread will be glorious to behold :LOL:
I am an oracle ain't I?
 
Matzinger & Ackerman argue that proto-Albanian, proto-Messapic, and proto-Armenian lived in this area (not Illyrian).

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The archaeological zone they believe to be connected with this language group:
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According to them, Illyrian represents a yamnaya centum language, whereas proto-Albanian, proto-messapic, and proto-Armenian are a half-satemised group that left the steppe later, around 200-300 years after the proto-greeks and proto-phrygians.
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According to them, Dacian and Thracian come from a later group that left even later, and was fully satemised.
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Fascinatingly, this Dardanian-Macedonian region where Matzinger & co argue the ancestor of Albanian and Messapic to be from may explain the congruence between the Messapic. Kalabri and Dardanian. Galabri

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Fascinatingly, this Dardanian-Macedonian region where Matzinger & co argue the ancestor of Albanian and Messapic to be from may explain the congruence between the Messapic. Kalabri and Dardanian. Galabri
Fb59cCiWAAQpe9a

Of course also present in the lecture were Iosif Lazaridis, David Anthony, and some other major names in linguistics and genetics, so the fact that Albanian is not Ilyrian will be the major consensus among the forefront of current academia.
 
Alright, good to see that Illyrian is confirmed to have been a paleo Balkan language deriving from Yamnaya and not some Beaker spin off language like some were proposing here.

R1b-Z2103>CTS7556 seems to be the major player here for the Balkan branches having in mind the recent results from North Macedonia and North Albania. PF7563 probably left with proto-Greeks.


For early Bronze Age, Mokrin complex comes to mind here. We have a high status L283 individual along with Z2103 linages (including CTS7556).
 
Matzinger & Ackerman argue that proto-Albanian, proto-Messapic, and proto-Armenian lived in this area (not Illyrian).

Fb5ROMqXEAY0j68


The archaeological zone they believe to be connected with this language group:

Fb5RZRcXEAAC3oU


Fb5RZQtXgAYGQdv


According to them, Illyrian represents a yamnaya centum language, whereas proto-Albanian, proto-messapic, and proto-Armenian are a half-satemised group that left the steppe later, around 200-300 years after the proto-greeks and proto-phrygians.

Fb5SAFwXkAIWs6f


Fb5SKFpWIAIAStA


Fb5SK2OXEAAnm5O


According to them, Dacian and Thracian come from a later group that left even later, and was fully satemised.

Fb5SW1DXwAISLyM

All this has to be revised, Armenians never made it to Balkans. It is wrong


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There were no Illyrians in 1700 BC. In dalmatia in 1700 BC there were proto-albanian speakers. Later in the 6th century BC greeks would meet these proto-albanians speakers and call them Illyrians.
That's what Matzinger is trying to say i think.
 
Alright, good to see that Illyrian is confirmed to have been a paleo Balkan language deriving from Yamnaya and not some Beaker spin off language like some were proposing here.

R1b-Z2103>CTS7556 seems to be the major player here for the Balkan branches having in mind the recent results from North Macedonia and North Albania. PF7563 probably left with proto-Greeks.


For early Bronze Age, Mokrin complex comes to mind here. We have a high status L283 individual along with Z2103 linages (including CTS7556).

The beaker influence is real, and the presence of non-z2103 R1b is significant.
 

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