Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[Hawk]

My y-dna does come from the Balkans, but it is from the early bronze age.

I am actually surprised how Myceneans (and one Himeran Greek if am not wrong?) showed R1b-PF7562 and not R1b-Z2103 so far? Interesting outcome, but i guess it's just sampling issue, then the question arises why R1b-PF7562 was not found in core Yamnaya groups.

 

[Jovialis]

I am actually surprised how Myceneans (and one Himeran Greek if am not wrong?) showed R1b-PF7562 and not R1b-Z2103 so far? Interesting outcome, but i guess it's just sampling issue, then the question arises why R1b-PF7562 was not found in core Yamnaya groups.

Actually, it was indeed found in Lysogarskaya, Russia in the EBA.

 

[Jovialis]

They have, in any case, the highest more recent Balkan contribution of all Italians going by yDNA.

That's not just the haplogroups as such (J-L283, E-V13 etc.), but also the specific subclades.

Yet by comparison with aDNA in Raveane et al. 2022, Apulians, eastern peloponnesian, and Maniots have the most Greece_N affinity in autosomal. If the Y-DNA is more recent, than it must have been before the influx of Avar, and Slavic enrichment.

Btw, Marseille has a heat up relative to the surrounding area, and they were settled by Greeks in ancient times. Not recent.

 

[Riverman]

Yet by comparison with aDNA in Raveane et al. 2022, Apulians, eastern peloponnesian, and Maniots have the most Greece_N affinity in autosomal. If the Y-DNA is more recent, than it must have been before the influx of Avar, and Slavic enrichment.

Btw, Marseille has a heat up relative to the surrounding area, and they were settled by Greeks in ancient times. Not recent.

J-L283 is actually rather rare in Greeks if comparing it with e.g. E-V13 in particular. I think its possible that we deal with people fleeing from the Slavs and specific Albanian clans with (yet?) less Slavic admixture. Will be interesting to see how and when exactly the Slavic admixture spread in the Medieval era among Greeks and Albanians.

 

[torzio]

They have, in any case, the highest more recent Balkan contribution of all Italians going by yDNA.

That's not just the haplogroups as such (J-L283, E-V13 etc.), but also the specific subclades.

Please explain your map as below is what I have for that marker

 

[Riverman]

You mean whether J-L283 was brought by ancient Illyrians? Sure, but I don't think they survived that much, but needs to be investigated by subclades. The presence of other more recent Albanian-related haplotypes speaks for a later appearance of the bulk.

 

[torzio]

You mean whether J-L283 was brought by ancient Illyrians? Sure, but I don't think they survived that much, but needs to be investigated by subclades. The presence of other more recent Albanian-related haplotypes speaks for a later appearance of the bulk.

I am not saying anything about BC red markers or AD orange markers on the map I linked.............I refer my question solely to what your map is suppose to indicate

 

[Riverman]

I am not saying anything about BC red markers or AD orange markers on the map I linked.............I refer my question solely to what your map is suppose to indicate

Its the modern distribution going by YFULL.

 

[Archetype0ne]

Actually, it was indeed found in Lysogarskaya, Russia in the EBA.

Interestingly

qpADM

G25:

Nick Patterson:

Interesting how both Lysogarskaya and Shevchenko fall within the path Patterson hypothesizes. I remember you were modeling Balkanites and Italians with Catacomb at some point, and if I recall correctly, with qpADM Moldova catacomb were close to viable models.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

I10950 from Himera has a very similar profile to northern Ghegs.

Main difference being the lack of Hungary LBA component in the Albanians, and the lack of MENA(from Roman imperial period) mixture and minor Illyrian component in this ancient mercenary, who is probably a north-eastern Dardanian, or a disposed Triballian(mixed with a Dardanian component). The timeline works.

The Autariatan communities unified into a single political entity that can be called with the collective name Autariatae in the period 6th – 4th centuries BC.^[11] They began to expand eastward into territories controlled by the Triballi. Moreover, they expanded southward where they defeated the Ardiaei, their old rivals,^[12] in struggles for control over pastures and salty springs.^[13] Activities of the Autariatae at the turn of the 6th and 5th centuries BC profoundly influenced the peoples who were directly affected by their expansion. The Ardiaei were moved toward the coasts and the Triballi to the east. The expansion of the Autariatae enabled them to achieve hegemonic control over one part of the interior of the Balkan Peninsula. The leading class of the Autariatae society reached the peak of its political and economic development indicated through many great luxurious royal tumuli and graves created during the 5th century BC. Strabo’s comment on the Autariatae as "the once greatest and most powerful Illyrian people" most likely refers to this period. Their peak of development was followed by the gradual decline of the Autariatae ending in 310 BC with their sudden disappearance^[14] due to Celtic migrations.^[15]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autariatae

 

[Angela]

Yeah, he'd be a lot like a Gheg, if he wasn't so different from a Gheg.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

The core components are the same, even if the northern Gheg Dardanian-Thracian combo formed in the Middle Ages. It is interesting nevertheless. This possible Triballi mercenary carries southern Thracian genetics, some Dardanian and some what Riverman calls Carpathian Gava genetics. (Hun LBA and even some mixture from proto-Slavs or early Balts). Dacian language shows contact with the Baltic, the Baltic BA mixture signal is likely not a calculator fluke.

The core combo is interesting, because this is not merely a North Italian clustering with a HRV IA Illyrian fluke like reading, but an actual sharing of ancestral components.

 

[enter_tain]

The core components are the same, even if the northern Gheg Dardanian-Thracian combo formed in the Middle Ages. It is interesting nevertheless. This possible Triballi mercenary carries southern Thracian genetics, some Dardanian and some what Riverman calls Carpathian Gava genetics. (Hun LBA and even some mixture from proto-Slavs or early Balts). Dacian language shows contact with the Baltic, the Baltic BA mixture signal is likely not a calculator fluke.

The core combo is interesting, because this is not merely a North Italian clustering with a HRV IA Illyrian fluke like reading, but an actual sharing of ancestral components.

Can someone ban this clown? All he does is troll with "Thracian" nonsense. There are 0 academics, archeogenetics or linguistics, in 2022 who support Albanians having anything to do with Thracians.

He's just poisoning every Albanian-related thread to the point of unreadability. ihype02 was child's play to this dude's derangement.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

This is very interesting, not only is I10950 related to Skopje I10379, but a Thraco-Cimmerian sample from Dobruja has a very similar profile to Skopje I10379 and even acts as a better parent/genetic component for I10950 and northern Albanians.

http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/uk-ua/map/ancient-human-dna_41837#6/45.314/28.477

I10950 link for a Triballi grows, though they could simply be Daco-Scythians/Moesian living near Greek Black Sea ports. What is even more fantastic, is using this specific Thraco-Cimmerian sample in the calculator, I was able to get a super tight fit for the northern Ghegs, for the first time.

Not only is the fit really good, but everything has aligned in straight patterns for the first time(look at the stripes).

Cimmerian-MJ12

MJ12 behaves very differently from other Scythian and Cimmerian samples, this is probably one of our first Dacian/Moesian genetic profiles. I10379 Skopje, I10950 Himera and Cimmerian MJ-12 have to represent a Moesian cluster. But Cimmerian MJ-12 shows no relationship with south Thracians. Any thoughts Riverman?

Edit: Also 992-830 BC is far too old for Cimmerian, maybe in the Altai the true first horse riding warfare had began, but it took two centuries more to reach Europe. The dating seems odd and the lack of South Thracian and Hun LBA components make a Daco-Thracian association not likely.

This person might represent a remnant of the pre-Thracian population along the Danube and it's profile is very similar to I10379. The northern Thracians(I10950) appear to have absorbed this genetic component into their genetic profile.

 

[Illyria]

Comparing Albanians to Thracians while using 20% Baltic BA, 18% Cimmerian, 11% Ancient Armenian, is a poor fit. The less the better.

You can model Albanians as 90%+ Illyrian, and less than 10% Slavic. This is closer to reality.

Do you really think Albanians are only half Thracian, 20% Slavic, 20% Cimmerian, and 10% Armenian? AND non-Illyrian? What an analysis...

Thracian samples are too Southern shifted for them to be the "pure proxy" of Proto-Albanians. You mixed them with Slavs, Cimmerians, and Armenians to get the fit closer, making them half Thracian and half Slavo-Cimmerian-Armenian, lol. There is not a single scholar, geneticist, or archeologist who supports this "theory" for Albanians.

Genetically, Albanians are right in between Illyrian samples and Macedonian samples, being closer to the Illyrian side of the cline. Thracian samples are even more eastern shifted than Macedonians. Using Thracians as a proxy for Albanians with 3 other populations far away from us, that have nothing to do with our history, doesn't prove anything.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Comparing Albanians to Thracians while using 20% Baltic BA, 18% Cimmerian, 11% Ancient Armenian, is a poor fit. The less the better.

You can model Albanians as 90%+ Illyrian, and less than 10% Slavic. This is closer to reality.

Do you really think Albanians are only half Thracian, 20% Slavic, 20% Cimmerian, and 10% Armenian? AND non-Illyrian? What an analysis...

Thracian samples are too Southern shifted for them to be the "pure proxy" of Proto-Albanians. You mixed them with Slavs, Cimmerians, and Armenians to get the fit closer, making them half Thracian and half Slavo-Cimmerian-Armenian, lol. There is not a single scholar, geneticist, or archeologist who supports this "theory" for Albanians.

Genetically, Albanians are right in between Illyrian samples and Macedonian samples, being closer to the Illyrian side of the cline. Thracian samples are even more eastern shifted than Macedonians. Using Thracians as a proxy for Albanians with 3 other populations far away from us, that have nothing to do with our history, doesn't prove anything.

You are way wrong. Your banned buddy already brought this up (see here https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...feedback/page2?p=660210&viewfull=1#post660210).

Using only Slavic, Thracian comes as a better fit(see here https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...feedback/page2?p=660210&viewfull=1#post660210).

More over I did not post my variables which included Cinamak, the calc simply refuses to use them, not even a tiny bit. You are talking about how Albanians plot, but that's a completely different matter than modeling. The calc does not produce any meaningful fit using Illyrian, the same way the calc will not model northern Italians as Illyrian derived, though they both plot/overlap with one another, plotting and deriving are different. A German with right ME mixture can plot Albanian, but neither of it's parent is Albanian.

Ancient Armenian is a proxy for imperial MENA mix which occurred during Roman time. If you don't believe it, look at how the Roman Illyrians became just as southern shifted as IA Thracians.

The Cimmerian sample has nothing to do with Cimmerians or Scythians genetically, re-read my previous post. I think it represents R1b-Z2103 genetic profile before the LBA Thracians killed most of them and absorbed a portion of their genetics. Cimmerian MJ-12 shows relationship to I10379 Skopje. Dardanian like genetics were probably more wide spread before the Bronze Age collapse.

And here, use these averages, and remove any as you see fit, you will not get better fit without Thracian:

HRV_IA:Average,0.122441142857143,0.150153142857143,0.0394361428571429,0.00369142857142857,0.0388202857142857,-0.00119514285714286,0.00147714285714286,0.000461428571428571,0.0141998571428571,0.0264242857142857,-0.00278385714285714,0.00745057142857143,-0.0107885714285714,-0.00587842857142857,-0.00354814285714286,0.000947142857142857,0.00286842857142857,0.00224414285714286,0.00272942857142857,0.00101828571428571,-0.00228171428571429,0.00286185714285714,-0.00422557142857143,-0.00227214285714286,-0.00200142857142857
ALB_Çinamak_Anc:Average,0.12475,0.1537512,0.0302452,-0.0142766,0.0300362,-0.0074186,0.003008,0.0005078,-0.001636,0.0248934,0.0011366,0.0071936,-0.0192368,-0.0072664,-0.0093376,-0.0049058,0.0066756,0.0026096,0.0039722,-0.0091042,-0.007986,0.0025474,-0.0043382,0.0057118,-0.0064664
MKD_Southwest_Ohrid_Anc:Average,0.1227012,0.153345,0.0232306,-0.0133722,0.0244968,-0.0063586,-0.0016922,-0.0033692,0.0006136,0.0272624,0.0058134,0.0063242,-0.0168878,-0.0066334,-0.0106676,-0.0031822,0.0011472,0.0044846,0.007944,-0.0095546,-0.0135512,0.0084826,-0.0017008,0.009688,-0.0026104
MKD_Southeast_Valandovo_Anc:Average,0.123498,0.1563915,0.0197985,-0.024225,0.029852,-0.013526,-0.0052875,-0.0064615,0.008897,0.0303425,0.0007305,0.0059945,-0.0118185,0.0056425,-0.0113325,-0.01664,-0.0086055,0.001457,0.005845,-0.016633,-0.0117295,0.0039565,0.0019105,0.005362,-0.001916
South_Thracian:Average,0.120342,0.162484636363636,0.00750790909090909,-0.0525021818181818,0.0298237272727273,-0.0213985454545455,-0.000427272727272727,-0.00148963636363636,0.0115091818181818,0.0437533636363636,0.002864,0.00821554545454545,-0.0182042727272727,-0.000963272727272727,-0.0228134545454545,-0.0118847272727273,0.00982618181818182,0.00269490909090909,0.00823909090909091,-0.00983418181818182,-0.00948327272727273,0.005598,-0.00368618181818182,0.00316554545454545,-0.00649918181818182
Dardanian:Average,0.1326035,0.1436975,0.0186675,-0.019703,0.0240045,-0.0104585,0.0041125,-0.002769,-0.001943,0.034807,-0.000487,0.010116,-0.0078045,-0.0061245,-0.0168295,0.006762,0.027576,-0.0011405,0.0085475,0.003877,-0.018592,0.0050075,0.000986,0.010182,-0.002275
ALB_Mdv:I13834,0.12862,0.145221,0.01961,-0.01292,0.012925,-0.007809,-0.00141,-0.006461,0.002863,0.025878,-0.000325,0.006145,-0.022002,-0.004266,-0.012486,-0.009546,0.003912,0.003421,0.008045,-0.013131,-0.010107,0.006059,-0.004437,-0.000602,-0.004191
ALB_Mdv:I13839,0.120652,0.151314,0.013953,-0.037468,0.030159,-0.012271,-0.001175,-0.001615,0.006136,0.025149,-0.004222,0.003897,-0.015609,0.002202,-0.019815,-0.007425,0.008605,0.006461,0.00817,-0.014257,-0.007112,0.002968,0.006039,-0.003735,-0.000599
ALB_Mdv:I14622,0.111547,0.15436,0.013953,-0.033592,0.016003,-0.001673,-0.001645,-0.001385,-0.001227,0.016037,0.006008,0.005845,-0.005946,0.00234,-0.013436,-0.013259,0.015255,-0.007728,0.009302,-0.012381,-0.015348,0.006801,-0.005669,-0.00735,-0.005389
Baltic_EST_BA,0.1321485,0.1213556,0.0992205,0.111662,0.051671,0.040746,0.0158398,0.0204684,-0.0029042,-0.050607,0.0009094,-0.0182389,0.0359462,0.0400344,-0.0180239,0.0018297,0.0103654,-0.000684,-0.0013952,0.0046272,-0.0024957,-0.0062692,0.0106487,-0.017388,0.002359
HUN_LBA:Average,0.12975825,0.14801325,0.05732225,0.030685,0.0497785,0.00425325,0.0036425,0.00490375,0.0141635,0.01485225,-0.0043845,0.00176125,-0.002936,0.00426625,-0.00213775,0.0014915,0.00824675,-0.00126675,0.0038335,0.00412675,0.00424275,0.004668,-0.00117075,-0.01054325,-0.00410125
Sargat_IA:Average,0.093477,-0.068548125,0.0658075,0.0608855,-0.049201625,-6.98750000000006E-05,0.003055125,0.004442,-0.01516025,-0.02890725,0.014899125,-0.00252875,0.008566625,-0.033236,0.002680375,0.001027625,-0.009664875,0.00121925,-0.001853875,-0.003329625,-0.009343,0.006244375,0.001802375,0.003057625,0.001167625
MNG_Early_Xiongnu:Average,0.0668927692307692,-0.207246076923077,0.0557848461538462,0.0257157692307692,-0.0602005384615385,-0.009375,0.00723107692307692,0.00658553846153846,-0.0122085384615385,-0.0164993846153846,-0.0166386153846154,-0.00288215384615385,-0.000903461538461539,-0.0122060769230769,0.0140104615384615,0.000917846153846154,-0.00948784615384615,0.00161784615384615,0.00147938461538462,0.00503115384615384,-0.0186401538461538,-0.00195938461538462,-0.00628553846153846,0.00203923076923077,0.00205415384615385
AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LC:ALX002,0.097888,0.137096,-0.06939,-0.072675,-0.023697,-0.013666,0.005875,-0.003692,-0.024338,-0.00164,0.011205,-0.013338,0.012636,0.00578,-0.020765,0.030893,0.024903,0.004181,-0.000251,-0.007754,0.004617,0.015086,-0.003944,-0.015544,-0.005508
ARM_Noratus_Anc:Average,0.0944735,0.137604,-0.05638,-0.0637925,-0.0253895,-0.019941,0.0038775,-0.005192,-0.0223955,-0.0041,0.00609,0.00517,-0.006764,-0.0052985,-0.0010855,0.00305,0.009453,-0.001964,0.005594,-0.0068785,0.003993,-0.00136,0.0019105,-0.0025905,0.003353
IRN_Hasanlu_C_BA_&_IA:Average,0.0949608571428571,0.126070714285714,-0.0649725714285714,-0.0443432857142857,-0.0409744285714286,-0.00844628571428571,0.00688228571428571,-0.00458228571428571,-0.0376322857142857,-0.0118451428571429,0.00605485714285714,6.42857142857142E-05,0.000977,-0.00359785714285714,0.000853,0.00746271428571429,-0.000707857142857143,0.00356528571428571,0.00301685714285714,-0.00394842857142857,0.00180042857142857,-0.00439857142857143,-0.00508828571428571,-0.00719542857142857,0.00138571428571429
Levant_PPNB:Average,0.0774,0.165192666666667,-0.0314266666666667,-0.139752333333333,0.035699,-0.063215,-0.0110453333333333,-0.012999,0.0681746666666667,0.0413676666666667,0.0197033333333333,-0.014287,0.0312683333333333,-0.00197266666666667,-0.0285013333333333,0.009016,0.0160803333333333,-0.00135133333333333,-0.00439966666666667,0.019926,-0.00391,0.008491,-0.00209533333333333,-0.00397633333333333,-0.006267
ISR_Natufian_EpiP,0.034147,0.152329,-0.022627,-0.140506,0.042162,-0.085062,-0.016921,-0.015692,0.12476,0.019317,0.028743,-0.025327,0.085926,-0.004129,0.004886,-0.014054,-0.011213,-0.007855,-0.02074,0.023136,0.01123,0.001607,0.00912,0.003735,-0.003233

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Davidski released the Vicinacium profiles and Nassius. Nothing interesting in terms of modeling Albanians, but Nassius is clearly related to Himera I10950, I speculated that on Anthro a few days ago.

SRB_Beska:R6681___AD_331,0.119514,0.11577,0.045632,0.02907,0.018157,0.011713,0.00564,0.003231,0.001841,-0.006378,-0.002923,0.004346,-0.003419,-0.008945,0.004479,0.001061,0.003781,-0.001774,0.012821,0.004627,-0.012353,-0.001855,0.007888,0.002048,-0.001676
SRB_Beska:R6688___AD_331,0.124067,0.126941,0.051288,0.029716,0.020927,0.008925,0.00094,0.007615,0.003068,-0.003462,-0.005521,-0.007493,0.008474,0.000413,0.001357,0.010872,0.017863,-0.004561,0.009302,0.005753,-0.003743,-0.001484,0.008504,0.009881,0.008861
SRB_Naissus:R6764___AD_330,0.120652,0.161469,0.017725,-0.031008,0.040315,-0.018128,0.000705,-0.000923,0.005727,0.037358,0.007307,0.013638,-0.016799,0.003303,-0.019001,0.006364,0.029597,-0.00038,0.010936,-0.004627,-0.007237,-0.002968,-0.006779,-0.004217,-0.010538
SRB_Naissus:R6769___AD_76,0.104717,0.150298,-0.029793,-0.060724,-0.002154,-0.019522,-0.00094,-0.011999,0.002863,0.020957,0.002273,-0.000599,0.007433,0.000275,-0.013843,-0.002917,0.011083,0.005954,0.013952,-0.000875,-0.012728,0.00507,-0.003944,-0.008435,0.000958
SRB_Sirmium:R3906___AD_1557,0.126344,0.129988,0.051666,0.041344,0.031083,0.00753,0.013866,0.008307,0,-0.007107,-0.002923,-0.007943,0.007582,0.017753,-0.010993,0.00411,0.00352,0.000633,0.002765,0.0005,0.003244,-0.00507,-0.000616,-0.004097,-0.003832
SRB_Sirmium:R3918___AD_1071,0.137726,0.144205,0.060716,0.027132,0.041238,0.013666,0.00188,0.014307,0.020452,0.013121,-0.002273,-0.0003,0.001784,0.010459,-0.001357,-0.003182,-0.016037,0.004307,0.006411,-0.002001,0.00025,0.006306,0.00419,0.003012,0.000958
SRB_Sirmium:R6737___AD_1558,0.124067,0.132019,0.053928,0.040375,0.041546,0.016733,0.011045,0.007846,0.001432,0.000911,-0.004709,-0.004646,0.010109,0.018304,-0.020629,-0.001326,0.002738,-0.00152,-0.001006,0.003502,-0.005366,-0.005812,0.001972,-0.003253,0.000718
SRB_Sirmium:R9662___AD_1546,0.125205,0.126941,0.057699,0.041021,0.041854,0.008925,0.00752,0.004846,-0.001636,-0.013485,-0.01023,-0.006145,0.004757,0.014588,-0.009365,-0.004508,0.006519,0.000633,0.012193,0.013256,-0.007986,-0.00371,-0.000123,-0.001807,0.007903
SRB_Svilos_Krusevlje:R6693___AD_284,0.119514,0.149283,0.011314,-0.015827,0.022158,-0.002789,-0.00047,0.013384,0.011658,0.027518,-0.003735,0.016036,-0.019177,0.008257,-0.008415,-0.01127,-0.002086,0.001267,0.011061,-0.004502,-0.003369,-0.002473,-0.002342,0.005061,-0.005628
SRB_Svilos_Krusevlje:R6701___AD_284,0.126344,0.153345,0.028284,-0.028101,0.032621,-0.009482,0.005405,0.003,0.010431,0.031709,0.005521,0.001499,-0.006838,-0.001239,-0.011129,-0.014054,-0.011865,-0.004054,0.002137,-0.006503,-0.009733,-0.008779,0.002095,0.002289,-0.00467
SRB_Viminacium:R3931___AD_180,0.127482,0.113739,0.058831,0.049742,0.028928,0.020917,0.004465,-0.000923,0.004295,-0.005832,0.005684,0.000899,0.003717,0.006055,-0.001086,0.01485,0.022817,-0.002534,0.000628,0.000875,-0.013351,0.00371,0.003328,0.001928,-0.008263
SRB_Viminacium:R6750___AD_148,0.085367,0.146236,-0.046009,-0.073644,-0.016311,-0.02761,0.00235,-0.000231,-0.006136,0.01385,-0.001786,0.000749,0.00892,0.004129,-0.005157,-0.009546,-0.010952,-0.00228,0.01169,-0.008004,-0.004991,0.003462,-0.002095,0.000723,-0.000718
SRB_Viminacium:R6756___AD_180,0.121791,0.168578,0.007165,-0.042313,0.028005,-0.013945,-0.000235,0.002308,0.00634,0.036447,0.007957,0.003897,-0.006987,-0.003991,-0.029994,-0.012198,0.005998,0.00076,0.007039,-0.014007,-0.011729,0.012242,-0.003574,0.008314,-0.001317
SRB_Viminacium:R6759___AD_150,0.124067,0.119832,0.09164,0.101422,0.047701,0.038208,0.01034,0.017768,0.001023,-0.039363,-0.004547,-0.019033,0.038057,0.03592,-0.019137,0.003447,0.014994,-0.007095,-0.00088,0.003126,-0.007736,-0.005935,0.003328,-0.007109,-0.002634
SRB_Viminacium:R9669___AD_220,0.117238,0.144205,0.017725,-0.012274,0.028928,-0.001116,0,0.009,0.001432,0.021868,0.005196,0.008243,-0.012785,-0.005643,-0.011672,0.001724,0.004172,0.005954,0.00905,-0.005753,-0.013851,0.013354,-0.002218,0.00964,0.007784
SRB_Viminacium:R9673___AD_146,0.136588,0.126941,0.090132,0.072675,0.044624,0.030678,0.005405,0.014999,-0.005931,-0.025695,-0.004709,-0.008992,0.016055,0.014175,-0.013572,0.014717,0.026598,-0.004814,-0.001383,0.007379,0.00025,-0.008779,0.002095,-0.005784,-0.000958
SRB_Viminacium:R9674___AD_134,0.119514,0.113739,0.025644,0.027455,0.017542,0.00251,-0.00094,-0.001385,0.001227,0.000911,0.00406,-0.0003,-0.01219,-0.003441,0.006379,-0.017369,-0.009127,-0.000633,-0.00176,-0.008004,0.002246,0.01558,-0.002095,-0.001205,0.000838
SVK_Bytca_Hrabove:R2200___AD_4,0.134311,0.14319,0.058831,0.036176,0.048932,0.01255,0.006815,0.008307,0.00859,0.004556,-0.003248,-0.002248,0.006541,0.007019,0.000407,-0.004243,-0.01017,0.009882,-0.003142,-0.001876,0.017844,0.001855,-0.007148,-0.016388,0.002634

 

[torzio]

I am puzzled in regards to Northern Dalmatian/Liburnian language was still around when the slavs arrived.......so it was pre-slav in origin ........but to me does not seem to be a part of the Latin branch ( ie for Roman occupation )

Vegliot:
yu yay foyt a skol day tš ink yeyn e dapú yu yay stat a skol tra yeyn; yu yay stdyút fenta i vapto yeyn, yu yay studyút. E dapú el mi twota si o amalwót e yu dzay dal su patrawn, minsina’wr véskovi. Dekaja el mi twota: ‘’Yu non lo potaja lasúr a skol, perké yu non potaya kaminúr ple. Yu avás kwatri pire ; ke-l dzay fure a menurle al dizmún e a la sar levurle a kwasa.”*


but southern Dalmatian( Ragusan ) ....seems to have a Latin base

Ragusan:
In praescriptis omnibus consiliis et officiis civilium et criminaliumoratores seu arengatores, advocati, iudices et consules legis statuto Latine loquuntur non autem Sclave, nec tamen nostro idiomate Italico, in quo nobiscum fantur et conveniunt, sed quodam alio vulgari idiomate eis speciali, quod a nobis Latinis intelligi nequit, nisi aliqualis, imo magna, eiusmodi loquendi habeatur (saltem audiendo) consuetudo: panem vocan pen,patrem dicunt teta , domus dicitur chesa , facere fachir et sic de ceteris, quae nobis ignotum idioma parturiunt

 

[torzio]

North Dalmatian word for father is Tata same as what the Frisians say

 

[torzio]

Comparing Albanians to Thracians while using 20% Baltic BA, 18% Cimmerian, 11% Ancient Armenian, is a poor fit. The less the better.

You can model Albanians as 90%+ Illyrian, and less than 10% Slavic. This is closer to reality.

Do you really think Albanians are only half Thracian, 20% Slavic, 20% Cimmerian, and 10% Armenian? AND non-Illyrian? What an analysis...

Thracian samples are too Southern shifted for them to be the "pure proxy" of Proto-Albanians. You mixed them with Slavs, Cimmerians, and Armenians to get the fit closer, making them half Thracian and half Slavo-Cimmerian-Armenian, lol. There is not a single scholar, geneticist, or archeologist who supports this "theory" for Albanians.

Genetically, Albanians are right in between Illyrian samples and Macedonian samples, being closer to the Illyrian side of the cline. Thracian samples are even more eastern shifted than Macedonians. Using Thracians as a proxy for Albanians with 3 other populations far away from us, that have nothing to do with our history, doesn't prove anything.

we don't even know what the 4 main groups of Thracians spoke......could be all different ( ie in ancient Romania and Bulgaria )

We don't even know the original Dacian language before they took on a Latin based one as their own