White Brazilian (Me) - GEdmatch Results Eurogenes K13 and MDLP K16.

I wonder if the US will ever abandon the shockingly, openly racist "one drop rule", which essentially equates African ancestry with a stain that, in no matter how inexpressive of an amount, entirely spoils and negates a person's non-African ancestry. This view goes hand in hand with the rule which stated that a black person was worth three fifths of a white one. I find it really strange that even African-Americans still embrace it to this day.

The African-Americans are the ONLY Americans who hold onto it. It's a matter of pride.

Too many people on this forum (not directed at you necessarily) make comments about American history and culture without knowing anything about it.

Nor were the people of the United States the only ones to hold onto distinctions based on percent of ancestry.

Words in Latin America for mixed ancestry people:

During the Spanish colonial period, Spaniards developed a complex caste system based on race, which was used for social control and which also determined a person's rights in society.[22] There were four main categories of race: (1) Peninsular - a Spaniard born in Spain, (2) Criollo (fem. criolla) - a person of Spanish descent born in Mesoamerica, (3) Indio (fem. India) - a person who is a native of, or indigenous to, Mesoamerica, and (4) Negro (fem. Negra) - a person of African slave descent.[22] There were also other caste groups like the Mestizos/Mestizas that had one Spanish and one Indian parent. The Castizos which had one Mestizo parent and one Spanish parent, the children of a Castizo were generally accepted as a Criollo. Mulatto/Mulatta were usually the ones with one Spanish and one black parent, if a mulatto was born in slavery they were considered slaves as well unless the mother was free then they would be free too.."

So, no different than the American terms mulatto, quadroon, octaroon. Mestizo was half and half, castizo one quarter.


I would be very surprised if it were any different in Brazil.

I hardly think this is a better system:

"Unlike the United States where ancestry is used to define race, Latin American scholars came to agree by the 1970s that race in Latin America could not be understood as the “genetic composition of individuals” but instead “based upon a combination of cultural, social, and somatic considerations. In Latin America, a person's ancestry is quite irrelevant to racial classification. For example, full-blooded siblings can often be classified by different races (Harris 1964).[20][21]"

So, of two siblings, the blacker looking one suffers the discrimination while the other one doesn't? Sounds like a great system. In the U.S. the blacker looking one left family behind and "passed". Is that so much worse?

This is what they did in South Africa too, and it was a mess.

See:
https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2003/mar/17/features11.g2

"Abraham Laing appealed in vain against Sandra's reclassification as coloured and she ended up in a boarding school 900km from home, lonely, a bedwetter. In 1967 she was reclassified white when the law changed to say the child of two white parents could not belong to another racial group. Blood tests proved she was the biological offspring of Abraham and Sannie."

main-qimg-acee03ef1622467dbcdcaae53de46fe9-c



9fa4c77074.jpg

Plus, if it was considered just fine to look black in Latin American, why did the governments urge the "whitening" of the population?
This attempt to "blame" certain countries for racism while absolving others is ridiculous.

"An important phenomenon described for some parts of Latin America such as Brazil and Mexico is "Whitening" or "Mestizaje" describing the policy of planned racial mixing with the purpose of minimizing the non-white part of the population.[12][13] "

Biologically, blanqueamiento is the process of whitening by marrying a lighter skinned individual in order to produce lighter-skinned offspring.[7]
Blanqueamiento was enacted in national policies of many Latin American countries, particularly Brazil, Venezuela and Cuba, at the turn of the 20th century.[8][9][10] In most cases, these policies promoted European immigration as a means to whiten the population.[11]"


 
The African-Americans are the ONLY Americans who hold onto it. It's a matter of pride.

Too many people on this forum (not directed at you necessarily) make comments about American history and culture without knowing anything about it.

Nor were the people of the United States the only ones to hold onto distinctions based on percent of ancestry.

Words in Latin America for mixed ancestry people:

During the Spanish colonial period, Spaniards developed a complex caste system based on race, which was used for social control and which also determined a person's rights in society.[22] There were four main categories of race: (1) Peninsular - a Spaniard born in Spain, (2) Criollo (fem. criolla) - a person of Spanish descent born in Mesoamerica, (3) Indio (fem. India) - a person who is a native of, or indigenous to, Mesoamerica, and (4) Negro (fem. Negra) - a person of African slave descent.[22] There were also other caste groups like the Mestizos/Mestizas that had one Spanish and one Indian parent. The Castizos which had one Mestizo parent and one Spanish parent, the children of a Castizo were generally accepted as a Criollo. Mulatto/Mulatta were usually the ones with one Spanish and one black parent, if a mulatto was born in slavery they were considered slaves as well unless the mother was free then they would be free too.."

So, no different than the American terms mulatto, quadroon, octaroon. Mestizo was half and half, castizo one quarter.

Other terms:


I would be very surprised if it were any different in Brazil.

I hardly think this is a better system:

"Unlike the United States where ancestry is used to define race, Latin American scholars came to agree by the 1970s that race in Latin America could not be understood as the “genetic composition of individuals” but instead “based upon a combination of cultural, social, and somatic considerations. In Latin America, a person's ancestry is quite irrelevant to racial classification. For example, full-blooded siblings can often be classified by different races (Harris 1964).[20][21]"

So, of two siblings, the blacker looking one suffers the discrimination while the other one doesn't? Sounds like a great system. In the U.S. the blacker looking one left family behind and "passed". Is that so much worse?

This is what they did in South Africa too, and it was a mess.

See:
https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2003/mar/17/features11.g2

"Abraham Laing appealed in vain against Sandra's reclassification as coloured and she ended up in a boarding school 900km from home, lonely, a bedwetter. In 1967 she was reclassified white when the law changed to say the child of two white parents could not belong to another racial group. Blood tests proved she was the biological offspring of Abraham and Sannie."

main-qimg-acee03ef1622467dbcdcaae53de46fe9-c



9fa4c77074.jpg

Plus, if it was considered just fine to look black in Latin American, why did the governments urge the "whitening" of the population?
This attempt to "blame" certain countries for racism while absolving others is ridiculous.

"An important phenomenon described for some parts of Latin America such as Brazil and Mexico is "Whitening" or "Mestizaje" describing the policy of planned racial mixing with the purpose of minimizing the non-white part of the population.[12][13] "

Biologically, blanqueamiento is the process of whitening by marrying a lighter skinned individual in order to produce lighter-skinned offspring.[7]
Blanqueamiento was enacted in national policies of many Latin American countries, particularly Brazil, Venezuela and Cuba, at the turn of the 20th century.[8][9][10] In most cases, these policies promoted European immigration as a means to whiten the population.[11]"



You've written nothing but facts, Angela. Still, the concepts you're speaking of - i.e. whitening of the population, rigid classification and hierarchization of people based on phenotype and ancestry - are largely regarded as racist and obsolete in Latin America, whereas the one drop rule continues to be acknowledged as a perfectly acceptable racial guideline to most Americans. To make a very complex discussion short, I think the only thing worse than hyperdescent is hypodescent.

Anyway, my other post wasn't meant to come off as an anti-American rant. This is just one of those socio-cultural peculiarities that make the US so unique, for good and for bad, to everyone else.
 
“If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.” :giggle:
 
You've written nothing but facts, Angela. Still, the concepts you're speaking of - i.e. whitening of the population, rigid classification and hierarchization of people based on phenotype and ancestry - are largely regarded as racist and obsolete in Latin America, whereas the one drop rule continues to be acknowledged as a perfectly acceptable racial guideline to most Americans. To make a very complex discussion short, I think the only thing worse than hyperdescent is hypodescent.

Anyway, my other post wasn't meant to come off as an anti-American rant. This is just one of those socio-cultural peculiarities that make the US so unique, for good and for bad, to everyone else.

If you think these things are true in 2019 America then you're misinformed or reading the situation incorrectly.

I'm sure nothing will convince you of the reality but I will leave you with an example which illustrates my point: Halle Berry's child is probably less than one quarter black genetically. Berry threw a hissy fit when media publications called the child mixed race and insisted that they refer to her as black. She also dragged the father into court because she thought he had allowed the child to get her hair straightened. Of course, she straigtens HER hair, or wears wigs. It's all political.

To call this child "black" is absurd imo, but it's what her mother wants. When she's old enough she'll decide for herself.
2D66355300000578-0-image-a-112_1444817122089.jpg


Barack Obama did the same thing. HE did not want to be referred to as mulatto, but as "black".

The practice started with white people, although not in every state, but today it is blacks who drive this classification, not whites. In fact, most of us are afraid NOT to refer to mixed blood people as black lest we be branded as racists who want to deny black ancestry, to make their contribution "invisible".

There are a lot of things to criticize in America and Italy and Spain and Brazil and every other country in the world, so long as you get your facts straight.
 
I think the myth of Dracula is idealized, it must be horrible that you suck your blood, I do not know lately the nights are very silent or maybe it is not a myth, I do not want it to be reality.
 
I think the myth of Dracula is idealized, it must be horrible that you suck your blood, I do not know lately the nights are very silent or maybe it is not a myth, I do not want it to be reality.
Sorry, could you explain where your post is going?
 
biracial or multiracial are fairly common terms these days.
 

Hello Salento.
Thank you for your support. I love Carlos. He has a great sense of humor. My father was O +, my mother A +, I am A +, my wife A - and my son A - . By the logic of the topic, whose link you posted, me and my son are points off the curve. In theory, it was for both of us to be women. LOL. I believe vampires are sucking and swapping our blood at night. LOL. But I believe that, with in a good mood, Carlos meant that you should not totally suppress the main genetic inheritance of an individual just because he has a minor genetic contribution from another ethnicity. It is as if a vampire were to come into his bedchamber every night and completely suck the blood of his dominant ethnicity. Well, that's speculation of mine. Only Carlos can explain better. Hugs to you and to our dear friend Carlos. I take the opportunity to say that I am a regular donor of blood, making a donation every six months. I invite all those in the forum who, if they can, to become them blood donors. It is a matter of solidarity with others.
Greetings everyone.
Duarte.
 
Yes, he is a trolll, meanwhile you are a racist.

Why a T- roll? Its a genuine question for an European person! Don't we call Mulato a mixed race person? What would you call a genuine white Brazilian? There is a significant portion of Brazilian population with full European ancestry. Koreans have lighter skin, why don't we call them white? If the skin shade was to determine the whiteness . As for the person that despise our country not to worry! That person could be a "white Brazilian". Canada has a sizeable portion of its population with Mexican ancestry who also call themselves white.
 


Its the same women in both pictures. Who remembers what she did?
 
Why a T- roll? Its a genuine question for an European person! Don't we call Mulato a mixed race person? What would you call a genuine white Brazilian? There is a significant portion of Brazilian population with full European ancestry. Koreans have lighter skin, why don't we call them white? If the skin shade was to determine the whiteness . As for the person that despise our country not to worry! That person could be a "white Brazilian". Canada has a sizeable portion of its population with Mexican ancestry who also call themselves white.

Do not worry, my friend. If my ethnicity bother you so much, that is a genuine European , I've already made the change on my profile. One drop is enough. You're right. Now I'm black and no one else needs to discuss or fight for it. Now peace and harmony is sealed, hope so. See and check out the change in my profile.
Greetings.
 
Do not worry, my friend. If my ethnicity bother you so much, that is a genuine European , I've already made the change on my profile. One drop is enough. You're right. Now I'm black and no one else needs to discuss or fight for it. Now peace and harmony is sealed, hope so. See and check out the change in my profile.
Greetings.
Its not like it bothers me! It would not change my life for better if you wrote black or Indian. But for the sake of the truth you are a mixed race person! This forum is an international audience.So some of the views you share in Brasil about social construction are not shared in other places.
 
Do not worry, my friend. If my ethnicity bother you so much, that is a genuine European , I've already made the change on my profile. One drop is enough. You're right. Now I'm black and no one else needs to discuss or fight for it. Now peace and harmony is sealed, hope so. See and check out the change in my profile.
Greetings.
You know who you are.
How you define yourself, should not be based on the opinion of Tutkun Arnaut, or anyone else.

I wouldn’t change anything, especially my Profile, just because Tutkun Arnaut has an opinion. lol

I get the statement and hint of sarcasm on your response. :)
 
Its not like it bothers me! It would not change my life for better if you wrote black or Indian. But for the sake of the truth you are a mixed race person! This forum is an international audience.So some of the views you share in Brasil about social construction are not shared in other places.

What absurdity. I wonder what little minority ancestry you carry?

Plus, nobody deserves to be harassed over a matter of self-identity, especially when it comes to race, and especially not when it's such a courteous member.

You're going to get the infractions you so richly deserve.
 
Its not like it bothers me! It would not change my life for better if you wrote black or Indian. But for the sake of the truth you are a mixed race person! This forum is an international audience.So some of the views you share in Brasil about social construction are not shared in other places.

Dear Tutkun Arnaut.
I could have simply omitted my SSA DNA. On all calculators when I use oracle 4, no SSA ethnicity is presented. See the following example. Moreover, due to my appearance, a man with fair skin, blue eyes, strong and 1.82 m high, is not even perceived as foreigner in the white majority countries that I have visited. In the USA, when I was in a typical roadside diner with an American friend, there was a large store with decoration objects for country houses. In the region there were many of these houses. The nice lady (white) showed me several objects so I could decorate my country house and was very embarrassed when I told her that I was not American and that I did not even live in the region or the USA. It was my choice to post my oracle results that only show the primary (European) and secondary (African) population, since I think it's cool a white man with African ancestry and I think many people would also find it cool, especially Brazilians. I could never imagine that adopting the concept of ethnicity adopted in Brazil would violate international norms of ethnic classification because this is an international website and the way Brazil treats the issue matters little because it is a regional classification , parochial, and that only concerns the Brazilians and not the world. If its so, I ask apologize for my error. It was not intentional.
Duarte.

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Portuguese_Portugal @ 5.978168
2 Spanish_Extremadura @ 5.992268
3 Spanish_Spain @ 6.327335
4 Spanish_Galicia @ 6.545066
5 Spanish_Murcia @ 6.937581
6 Spanish_Baleares @ 7.218249
7 Spanish_Andalucia @ 7.809060
8 Spanish_Cataluna @ 7.989942
9 Provencal_Provence @ 8.465449
10 Spanish_Castilla_y_Leon @ 8.579922
11 Spanish_Valencia @ 8.809546
12 Spanish_Castilla_la_Mancha @ 10.260877
13 Swiss_Switzerland @ 10.762058
14 French_NorthwestFrance @ 10.872211
15 French_EastFrance @ 10.886386
16 Spanish_Canarias @ 10.958314
17 French_France @ 10.973870
18 Spanish_Aragon @ 11.407277
19 Spanish_Cantabria @ 11.770754
20 German_Germany @ 11.972765

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Portuguese_Portugal +50% Spanish_Murcia @ 4.882466


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Italian_Friul +25% Spanish_Canarias +25% Spanish_Pais_Vasco @ 4.722140


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Jew_Ashkenazi + Basque_Spain + German_NorthGermany + Spanish_Canarias @ 4.476932
2 Jew_Ashkenazi + Basque_Spain + German_SouthGermany + Spanish_Canarias @ 4.532102
3 Jew_Ashkenazi + Basque_Spain + Czech_Czechia + Spanish_Canarias @ 4.606090
4 Jew_Ashkenazi + Basque_France + German_NorthGermany + Spanish_Canarias @ 4.641181
5 Italian_Friul + Spanish_Canarias + Spanish_Pais_Vasco + Swiss_Switzerland @ 4.645905
6 French_SouthFrance + Spanish_Canarias + Swiss_Switzerland + Swiss_Switzerland @ 4.658790
7 French_SouthFrance + Italian_Friul + Spanish_Canarias + Swiss_Switzerland @ 4.664810
8 French_SouthFrance + Portuguese_Portugal + Portuguese_Portugal + Swiss_Switzerland @ 4.675999
9 Spanish_Canarias + Spanish_Pais_Vasco + Swiss_Switzerland + Swiss_Switzerland @ 4.677666
10 Jew_Ashkenazi + Basque_France + German_SouthGermany + Spanish_Canarias @ 4.693038
11 French_SouthFrance + Italian_Friul + Portuguese_Portugal + Portuguese_Portugal @ 4.697506
12 Italian_Friul + Italian_Friul + Spanish_Canarias + Spanish_Pais_Vasco @ 4.722140
13 Jew_Ashkenazi + Austrian_Austria + Basque_Spain + Spanish_Canarias @ 4.735291
14 Portuguese_Portugal + Spanish_Murcia + Spanish_Murcia + Swiss_Switzerland @ 4.737254
15 Italian_Friul + Portuguese_Portugal + Portuguese_Portugal + Spanish_Pais_Vasco @ 4.741563
16 Jew_Ashkenazi + Basque_Spain + Slovenian_Slovenia + Spanish_Canarias @ 4.753297
17 Portuguese_Portugal + Portuguese_Portugal + Spanish_Pais_Vasco + Swiss_Switzerland @ 4.754658
18 Italian_NorthIitaly + Spanish_Canarias + Spanish_Pais_Vasco + Swiss_Switzerland @ 4.754892
19 French_SouthFrance + Italian_Friul + Italian_Friul + Spanish_Canarias @ 4.761105
20 Jew_Ashkenazi + Basque_Spain + Dane_Denmark + Spanish_Canarias @ 4.764399

Done.

 
Dear Tutkun Arnaut.
I could have simply omitted my SSA DNA. On all calculators when I use oracle 4, no SSA ethnicity is presented. See the following example. Moreover, due to my appearance, a man with fair skin, blue eyes, strong and 1.82 m high, is not even perceived as foreigner in the white majority countries that I have visited. In the USA, when I was in a typical roadside diner with an American friend, there was a large store with decoration objects for country houses. In the region there were many of these houses. The nice lady (white) showed me several objects so I could decorate my country house and was very embarrassed when I told her that I was not American and that I did not even live in the region or the USA. It was my choice to post my oracle results that only show the primary (European) and secondary (African) population, since I think it's cool a white man with African ancestry and I think many people would also find it cool, especially Brazilians. I could never imagine that adopting the concept of ethnicity adopted in Brazil would violate international norms of ethnic classification because this is an international website and the way Brazil treats the issue matters little because it is a regional classification , parochial, and that only concerns the Brazilians and not the world. If its so, I ask apologize for my error. It was not intentional.
Duarte.

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Portuguese_Portugal @ 5.978168
2 Spanish_Extremadura @ 5.992268
3 Spanish_Spain @ 6.327335
4 Spanish_Galicia @ 6.545066
5 Spanish_Murcia @ 6.937581
6 Spanish_Baleares @ 7.218249
7 Spanish_Andalucia @ 7.809060
8 Spanish_Cataluna @ 7.989942
9 Provencal_Provence @ 8.465449
10 Spanish_Castilla_y_Leon @ 8.579922
11 Spanish_Valencia @ 8.809546
12 Spanish_Castilla_la_Mancha @ 10.260877
13 Swiss_Switzerland @ 10.762058
14 French_NorthwestFrance @ 10.872211
15 French_EastFrance @ 10.886386
16 Spanish_Canarias @ 10.958314
17 French_France @ 10.973870
18 Spanish_Aragon @ 11.407277
19 Spanish_Cantabria @ 11.770754
20 German_Germany @ 11.972765

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Portuguese_Portugal +50% Spanish_Murcia @ 4.882466


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Italian_Friul +25% Spanish_Canarias +25% Spanish_Pais_Vasco @ 4.722140


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Jew_Ashkenazi + Basque_Spain + German_NorthGermany + Spanish_Canarias @ 4.476932
2 Jew_Ashkenazi + Basque_Spain + German_SouthGermany + Spanish_Canarias @ 4.532102
3 Jew_Ashkenazi + Basque_Spain + Czech_Czechia + Spanish_Canarias @ 4.606090
4 Jew_Ashkenazi + Basque_France + German_NorthGermany + Spanish_Canarias @ 4.641181
5 Italian_Friul + Spanish_Canarias + Spanish_Pais_Vasco + Swiss_Switzerland @ 4.645905
6 French_SouthFrance + Spanish_Canarias + Swiss_Switzerland + Swiss_Switzerland @ 4.658790
7 French_SouthFrance + Italian_Friul + Spanish_Canarias + Swiss_Switzerland @ 4.664810
8 French_SouthFrance + Portuguese_Portugal + Portuguese_Portugal + Swiss_Switzerland @ 4.675999
9 Spanish_Canarias + Spanish_Pais_Vasco + Swiss_Switzerland + Swiss_Switzerland @ 4.677666
10 Jew_Ashkenazi + Basque_France + German_SouthGermany + Spanish_Canarias @ 4.693038
11 French_SouthFrance + Italian_Friul + Portuguese_Portugal + Portuguese_Portugal @ 4.697506
12 Italian_Friul + Italian_Friul + Spanish_Canarias + Spanish_Pais_Vasco @ 4.722140
13 Jew_Ashkenazi + Austrian_Austria + Basque_Spain + Spanish_Canarias @ 4.735291
14 Portuguese_Portugal + Spanish_Murcia + Spanish_Murcia + Swiss_Switzerland @ 4.737254
15 Italian_Friul + Portuguese_Portugal + Portuguese_Portugal + Spanish_Pais_Vasco @ 4.741563
16 Jew_Ashkenazi + Basque_Spain + Slovenian_Slovenia + Spanish_Canarias @ 4.753297
17 Portuguese_Portugal + Portuguese_Portugal + Spanish_Pais_Vasco + Swiss_Switzerland @ 4.754658
18 Italian_NorthIitaly + Spanish_Canarias + Spanish_Pais_Vasco + Swiss_Switzerland @ 4.754892
19 French_SouthFrance + Italian_Friul + Italian_Friul + Spanish_Canarias @ 4.761105
20 Jew_Ashkenazi + Basque_Spain + Dane_Denmark + Spanish_Canarias @ 4.764399

Done.


Those are not international norms. They're Tutkun norms. There's a massive difference.
 
Remund, I think you may be out of here in record time. Anyone want to take bets on how long he'll last?
 
There was no dna testing in the past and many multi generational mulattoes passed as white in the US, based on the one drop rule at least 1/2 of all white Americans would be non white because it's highly unlikely someone don't have a single non Caucasian ancestor going back 400 years. The average Southern colonial have 1-2% SSA and even higher Amerindian often exceeding 3%. The reason why White North Americans are pred 95-100% European is because they received a continuous wave of migration that always refreshed the old population. Most white Americans in the Midwest, Coastal areas are of recent European origin.
White people in the South most definitely have more Black Sub Saharan ancestry than Native American ancestry, since they were in closer contact with their slave population for a longer amount of time, while the Native American populations were genocided and ethnically cleansed from their ancestral homelands. Though White Southerners usually hid their black ancestry by claiming the common Cherokee Blood Myth, which when investigated usually turns out to be completely false.
12% of Southerners have on average 1% SSA, While only 5% have .18 percent Native American. These White Southerners are the direct descendants of the very people who benefited from the genocide and removal of the Southeastern Native Nations from their ancestral homelands. Excuse me if I call bull on their mythical Cherokee Grand ma mas! If this were true they would still be affiliated with their recognised Cherokee Nations in NC or Oklahoma.
 
I don't know how many times people have to be told to stop spreading disinformation. George Walleys post is completely incorrect. The data is clear. The vast majority of white Americans, including those with colonial stock, and including those in the south, do not have any SSA or Indian ancestry, for that matter.

African-Ancestry-in-White-Americans.jpg
 

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