Who are the Dardanians of Europe and Troy? ( VIDEO )

There a 2 thoughts on the language in the troas ( troy ) , some say it is Luwian and some say it is not , Trojans neighbours along the coast looking at europe are...Mysians, then thracians, then Palaic ...........this ( palaic )being as some say a sub-branch of Luwian

"Mysia (UK /ˈmɪsiə/, US /ˈmɪʒə/ or /ˈmiːʒə/; Greek: Μυσία, Latin: Mysia, Turkish: Misya) was a region in the northwest of ancient Asia Minor[1] (Anatolia, Asian part of modern Turkey). It was located on the south coast of the Sea of Marmara. It was bounded by Bithynia on the east, Phrygia on the southeast, Lydia on the south, Aeolis on the southwest, Troad on the west and by the Propontis on the north. In ancient times it was inhabited by the ---- Mysians, Phrygians, Aeolian Greeks and other groups. ---"

That quote implies at least 3 nationalities.... Phyrgians, Mysians, and Aeolian Greeks. Also here you can find cognates for Olympys as a mountain which might predate Olympus in Argos.

I suspect both proto-Alban and proto-Greek tribes took similar path into mainland Europe, around the same era. Although proto-Albanian imo sided in Asia minor through their J2 lineage, and Crete-->Asia Minor through their E-V13 Lineage, while the proto-Greeks in Argos, Aechea+ Morea.
 
Actually I think you may be seeing the evidences "upside down": even if it is true that Pre-Albanian speakers were Dardanians and were in Troy (Northwestern Anatolia) by 1300-1200 B.C., what the video posted in the beginning of this thread claims and I also think is much more likely is that they were newcomers from the Balkans, so the movement, if it happened, was probably Balkans > Anatolia, not the other way around. From the Late Bronze Age onwards, the Greeks, Phrygians, Mysians, Thracians and other peoples who were probably already established since long ago in the Balkans migrated to Western Anatolia. If the Dardanians were part of that process, they also came from Dardania or whatever was their early homeland in the Balkans (maybe a bit more to the south, as they seem to have had open access to the Aegean). Armenians themselves may have come from the Balkans, considering that in the Bronze Age their future territory was already inhabited by literate societies (Hurrians, Urartians, Anatolian IEs) and there is simply no Armenian-like inscription or name before the end of the Bronze Age there.

is not Hurrian, urartians ( from lake Selva to Lake Van ) associated with luwian and ...........hatti with Hittite ?
why could not the armenians be either a luwian and/or hurrian people either from modern armenia or Cilicia ( SE Turkey ) ?
 
if you sent me a privy message...for some reason i cannot respond....so see below

a possibility...since the trojan war as a trade war for access to the black sea
but as per 2017 paper , illyrian origin in black sea modern moldova lands...they arrived in central europe ( noricum, which is east austria ) circa 1600BC......they are part of the Halstatt culture with the celts.
The Dardanians are anatolians, via origins in Samothrace.......so origins of illyrians and dardanians difer.............besides Greek historians even called Epirotes as illyrian, it was a greek term for the northern barbaric people.
I am here to seek the truth and the truth is not what albanians where taught as propaganda by their government in the 1970's that they are Illyrians. I have been saying for over 2 years that albanian origin in Europe could only have come initially from the dardanians who also had ownership of the fertile lands called Moesia, lands that thracians and macedonians wanted as their own
even all medieval and renaissanece italian literature called albanians epirotes....clearly between roman times or prior to the medieval Albanians ( dardanians ) formed some sort of union with epirotes


[h=3]1705-1715
Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz:
Correspondence on the Albanian Language

[/h][h=3]1774
Johann Thunmann:
On the History and Language
of the Albanians and Vlachs

[/h]
You think that even these two scholars of the XVIII century(among many prominent names) are victims of the propaganda by Albanian government in the 1970's?
 
So much for arguing the points instead of jumping all over the place with rhetorical BS.

I went out of my way to quote my problem for the Bryges moved from Balkans to Anatolia version, basing it on archaeology, as well as myth, and even questioning the 400BC Herodotus quote about the origin of people 800 Years prior to him. The Dardans in the Illiad are not even mentioned mainland... the Thracians, as well as the "Pellasgians" are... Come on the sources are plentiful lets not make this a battle of 19th century propaganda, be it French, German, Albanian or Greek. The truth can be found independently, following the facts, as long as they are consistent.

How some people, from my own ancestry believe Dardanians in Troy 1300BC have no connection to Dardanians in Kosovo 700BC REALLY AMUSES ME.

Same with the Phyrgian, Breagas, Brygas, whatever u want to call them for the costal proto-Albos.

I believe Gaets, and Ghegs derive from the same etnonym... deriving from Gyges... Founder of the second line of Heraclid dynasty that would rule for 5 generations in Lydia... after The Agron dynasty ruled for 22 generations. Gyges was supposedly a Shepard from Thrace...

Shkurt e shqip Gega, Leka, Agron, Ylli, Agim... jan emra proto shqiptar. Aleksandri I Madh nuk ishte Aleksandri I pare.... Po i 3 ti vetem ne Maqedoni, e paramendo sa Aleksandra ka pas para ketij Aleksandri? A mendoni me te vertet se si fjal origjinon ne Ballkan? Se un e dyshoj. Po syte i mbaj hapur, se ne fund atyre ju besoj.

"Hyllus and his brothers invaded Peloponnesus... They withdrew to Thessaly, where Aegimius, the mythical ancestor of the Dorians, whom Heracles had assisted in war against the Lapidae, adopted Hyllus and made over to him a third part of his territory. After the death of Aegimius, his two sons voluntarily submitted to Hyllus"

Agim. Agron, Hyllus, Hylli, Ilium, Teuta. A L E K S A N D E R???... all the way in Asia minor 700+ years before any mention in the Balkans. Surely at least part of our modern Albanian Genes and Ethnoculture took this path...

Edit: Or I am wrong, and Bryges more than 3000 years ago were able from their pastoral economy to go from the Balkans to Lydia and become rulers there, taking down the most fortification civilization of the time xD and keepping their dynasties on the throne for 27 generations. Such madlads. I mean it only took a whole League of Peoples and 10 Years, and a sneaky Horse, and an archaic world war, to bring Troy down, but the Bryges had it EZPZ.
 
TROY VII (Balkanic/Troia-culture about 1200 - 950 BC):

Troy VII phases VIIb1, VIIb2, and recebtly VIIb3 show continuity from what preceded them; for example, parts of the fortification walls remain in use. Yet there are significant new cultural elemens in both the lower and the upper levels. Handmade pottery suddenly re-appears after 1000 years of the potter's wheel. The lower parts of the walls are now faced with irregular, vertically-placed stone slabs.

In the building-phases (VIIb1-VIIb2) there are also changes in wall-building techniques, with the lower parts of the circuit-wall now being faced with irregular, vertically placed stone slabs (orthostats). How Troy VII1b perished (around the 1130 BC) is unclear. There are not clear evidence of destruction whether by earthquake or by human hands and probably the settlement was taken over by a related cultural group without serious disturbance. Prominent amongst the handmade pottery is a striking dark-coloured ware decorated with ribs and knobs like horns, the so called knobbed ware or Buckelkeramik, for which analogies are to be found in south-eastern Europe.

Similarly, a number of bronze axe heads found by Schliemann, although their context of discovery is not certain, have been attributed to Troy VIIb2 and have their best parallels in Late Bronze Age Hungary. Buckelkeramik has a parallels across the Hellespont it appears that its makers may have migrated into the Troad from Thrace, to which in turn they may have moved from further west. Troy VIIb2 was destroyed by fire. Conceivably the settlement was taken by force and put to the torch around 1100 BC.
 
TROY VII (Balkanic/Troia-culture about 1200 - 950 BC):

Troy VII phases VIIb1, VIIb2, and recebtly VIIb3 show continuity from what preceded them; for example, parts of the fortification walls remain in use. Yet there are significant new cultural elemens in both the lower and the upper levels. Handmade pottery suddenly re-appears after 1000 years of the potter's wheel. The lower parts of the walls are now faced with irregular, vertically-placed stone slabs.

In the building-phases (VIIb1-VIIb2) there are also changes in wall-building techniques, with the lower parts of the circuit-wall now being faced with irregular, vertically placed stone slabs (orthostats). How Troy VII1b perished (around the 1130 BC) is unclear. There are not clear evidence of destruction whether by earthquake or by human hands and probably the settlement was taken over by a related cultural group without serious disturbance. Prominent amongst the handmade pottery is a striking dark-coloured ware decorated with ribs and knobs like horns, the so called knobbed ware or Buckelkeramik, for which analogies are to be found in south-eastern Europe.

Similarly, a number of bronze axe heads found by Schliemann, although their context of discovery is not certain, have been attributed to Troy VIIb2 and have their best parallels in Late Bronze Age Hungary. Buckelkeramik has a parallels across the Hellespont it appears that its makers may have migrated into the Troad from Thrace, to which in turn they may have moved from further west. Troy VIIb2 was destroyed by fire. Conceivably the settlement was taken by force and put to the torch around 1100 BC.

Rrofsh per argumentet.
Thank you for the arguments.

"Prominent amongst the handmade pottery is a striking dark-coloured ware decorated with ribs and knobs like horns, the so called knobbed ware or Buckelkeramik, for which analogies are to be found in south-eastern Europe. " What is the nature of this relation? To me at this point it is obvious that there is a connection between Troy and Modern Albanians although what is confusing me is the direction of the relationship as well as the chronology.

If parallels are to be found in south-eastern Europe, what is the chronological arrow? East to west, or west to east.

Furthermore, I fear making deduction based on pottery, or axes, since the Troad at the time was one of the most important centers of trade. Yet that argument is interesting.

So my question is since we know places such as Apollonia were founded after the sack of Troy, do we have evidence of pre 1300 stone buildings in the Balkans, or SE Europe as you stated? If we did have these parallel stones at the base of the walls style of building anywhere near Dardania (Kosov) or Northner Albania, or Epirus preceding 1320-1280 we could imply something otherwise it raises more questions than anything.

Furthermore, how do we know there was a "change" of leadership circa 1300BC when there is no war signs such as fire or anything. From what Homer stated and later characters parroted Dardans in Troy were an older dynasty even than the Trojans, we are talking double digit generations.

Nevertheless, thanks for starting this thread and taking the time to argument your points.
Hopefully I am not being illogical or foolish with my arguments.

At the end of the day we might never know, or the relationship could be much more complicated than we anticipate, with East-West movements not limited to countable instances sourced in history. But rather interchangeably, after all there was no concept of Nation at the time, and what was the state was nothing more than extended family hierarchies.
 
Rrofsh per argumentet.
Thank you for the arguments.

"Prominent amongst the handmade pottery is a striking dark-coloured ware decorated with ribs and knobs like horns, the so called knobbed ware or Buckelkeramik, for which analogies are to be found in south-eastern Europe. " What is the nature of this relation? To me at this point it is obvious that there is a connection between Troy and Modern Albanians although what is confusing me is the direction of the relationship as well as the chronology.

If parallels are to be found in south-eastern Europe, what is the chronological arrow? East to west, or west to east.

Furthermore, I fear making deduction based on pottery, or axes, since the Troad at the time was one of the most important centers of trade. Yet that argument is interesting.

So my question is since we know places such as Apollonia were founded after the sack of Troy, do we have evidence of pre 1300 stone buildings in the Balkans, or SE Europe as you stated? If we did have these parallel stones at the base of the walls style of building anywhere near Dardania (Kosov) or Northner Albania, or Epirus preceding 1320-1280 we could imply something otherwise it raises more questions than anything.

Furthermore, how do we know there was a "change" of leadership circa 1300BC when there is no war signs such as fire or anything. From what Homer stated and later characters parroted Dardans in Troy were an older dynasty even than the Trojans, we are talking double digit generations.

Nevertheless, thanks for starting this thread and taking the time to argument your points.
Hopefully I am not being illogical or foolish with my arguments.

At the end of the day we might never know, or the relationship could be much more complicated than we anticipate, with East-West movements not limited to countable instances sourced in history. But rather interchangeably, after all there was no concept of Nation at the time, and what was the state was nothing more than extended family hierarchies.

The migration you proposed for J2b and EV13 from anatolia into the balkans is not supported. They are found in the Balkans since bronze age.

The battle of kadesh mentions Dardanians in NW Anatolia in 1270 BC, so this is 70 years before the beginning of the "Balkanic Troy" archeological period (1200 - 950 BC).
So maybe they came a bit before this time.
 
"Herodotus' computation suggests c.1192 BC for Agron's accession" Strikingly similar to your calculation... Makes me reconsider my stance. Any additional readings you would recommend?

Where do you think our J2B2 and E-V13 ancestors were say 4-5k years ago? What about before that? In case we were in the Balkans then too, my question is how did we end up here and why do we have such poverty of archaeology and "scripture", "relatively speaking". If we were earlier in the Balkans than in Troy as the DNA trail suggests... Then were are our Troy I II III IV etc etc. I hope I am understood, what I mean. If the Dardans 3k Years ago were so able to lead a civilization as you mentioned "Balkan Troy" 1290-950, why after the fall of troy they did not repeat their building sprees and similar culture in the Balkans.

My brain has no problem guessing a merchant city that invented coins, and city walls the boast of the world, falling, and refugia fleeing in the Balkans, and falling to the Dark Ages... where we have so little info.

Or these Bronze Age people that found out how to divide silver from gold, moving to Tirol and Dardania and Skupi and Stobi due to the gold and metal wealth there.


What my brain struggles with, is first of all a motive for a West to East move, and furthermore explaining the relative discrepancy between Dardans in Troy and Dardans in Dardania.



 
"Herodotus' computation suggests c.1192 BC for Agron's accession" Strikingly similar to your calculation... Makes me reconsider my stance. Any additional readings you would recommend?

Where do you think our J2B2 and E-V13 ancestors were say 4-5k years ago? What about before that? In case we were in the Balkans then too, my question is how did we end up here and why do we have such poverty of archaeology and "scripture", "relatively speaking". If we were earlier in the Balkans than in Troy as the DNA trail suggests... Then were are our Troy I II III IV etc etc. I hope I am understood, what I mean. If the Dardans 3k Years ago were so able to lead a civilization as you mentioned "Balkan Troy" 1290-950, why after the fall of troy they did not repeat their building sprees and similar culture in the Balkans.

My brain has no problem guessing a merchant city that invented coins, and city walls the boast of the world, falling, and refugia fleeing in the Balkans, and falling to the Dark Ages... where we have so little info.

Or these Bronze Age people that found out how to divide silver from gold, moving to Tirol and Dardania and Skupi and Stobi due to the gold and metal wealth there.


What my brain struggles with, is first of all a motive for a West to East move, and furthermore explaining the relative discrepancy between Dardans in Troy and Dardans in Dardania.




The 3 main haplos of Albanians, J2b2, EV13, and Z2103, would most likely have been around the central northern balkans 4-5K years ago.

h8k1LHO.jpg
 
The 3 main haplos of Albanians, J2b2, EV13, and Z2103, would most likely have been around the central northern balkans 4-5K years ago.

h8k1LHO.jpg

Interesting. Thanks for dealing cooly with my ignorance, and not simply down-voting.

Yeah the same blue path I was considering all along connecting Ilium through Macedon and Vardar to Dardania. I will have to get a hold of the book and read it...
 
Where do you think our J2B2 and E-V13 ancestors were say 4-5k years ago? What about before that?

J2b-L283 likely moved from the Steppe or Caucasus towards the Balkans around 3600-4000 years ago. E1b-V13 probably started out either in Central Europe or somewhere in the Balkans almost 5000 years ago, then spread all around in Europe, most successfully in the Balkans. You can find some useful info on the ancestry of Albanians on gjenetika.com. Have you tested yet, or are you thinking of joining the Albanian DNA project?
 
I THINK WE ARE STILL UNDER same trap


AND WE DO NOT SEE THE PROBLEM AT ITS BASE,

BRYGIANS INHABIT NORTH OF PROTO-GREEK
BRYGIANS MOVE SOUTHERN DUE TO ILLYRIANS COMING FROM NORICUM

AEOLIANS MOVE EAST TO PELASGIAN ARGOS AND THN EAST TO AEOLIS
IONIAN MOVE SOUTH TO ATTICA AND COLONISE IONIA in ASIA

DORIANS COLONISE DORIS in minor ASIA

SO WHEN BRYGIANS MOVED TO ASIA?
KARAMOS FOUNDER OF MAKEDONIAN KINGDOM FINDS THEM AT THEIR GLORY IN EDESSA,
KARAMOS LIVED AROUND 800 BC, AFTER THE RETURN OF TEMENIDES, (DORIAN DESCENT)

SO ON THE GLORY AND PEAK OF HETTITES, TROY RISES,

ARZAWA ASSUWA ALLIANCE FALLS AND MOVES TO MYCENAE

Could BRYGIANS MOVE TO EAST, AT THAT ERA?
AT THE PEAK OF HETTITE EMPIRE?

1rst Colonisation is after COLLAPSE OF TROY
SO BRYGIANS DID NOT MOVE BEFORE MYCENAEANS DESTROY TROY,
AND SURELY NOT BEFORE SEA PEOPLES.

SO EITHER WE ACCEPT THAT BRYGIANS MOVED TO PHRYGIA LOGICALLY AFTER SEA PEOPLES
WHEN EVERYBODY MOVED AND MYCENAE COLLAPSE.

OR WE ACCEPT THAT THE PHRYGIANS OF HOMER, ARE NO THE BRYGIANS, AND PROBABLY NEVER THAT MOVED HAPPENED
BUT THE TRIBES THAT DIAKONOV RECOGNS

NOTICE
BRYGIANS ARE NOT ILLYRIANS

2 Usefull links
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arzawa

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assuwa

SO WHEN EVERYBODY IS MOVING FROM MINOR ASIA DUE TO HETTITES
HOW COME BRYGIANS MOVED THERE BEFORE TROY COLLAPSE?
 
Have to mail back the FTDNA (64?) after receiving it a couple of weeks ago, have been procrastinating a bit... And yes, the DNA project at FTDNA was my inspiration for the purchase,.
 
I THINK WE ARE STILL UNDER same trap


AND WE DO NOT SEE THE PROBLEM AT ITS BASE,

BRYGIANS INHABIT NORTH OF PROTO-GREEK
BRYGIANS MOVE SOUTHERN DUE TO ILLYRIANS COMING FROM NORICUM

AEOLIANS MOVE EAST TO PELASGIAN ARGOS AND THN EAST TO AEOLIS
IONIAN MOVE SOUTH TO ATTICA AND COLONISE IONIA in ASIA

DORIANS COLONISE DORIS in minor ASIA

SO WHEN BRYGIANS MOVED TO ASIA?
KARAMOS FOUNDER OF MAKEDONIAN KINGDOM FINDS THEM AT THEIR GLORY IN EDESSA,
KARAMOS LIVED AROUND 800 BC, AFTER THE RETURN OF TEMENIDES, (DORIAN DESCENT)

SO ON THE GLORY AND PEAK OF HETTITES, TROY RISES,

ARZAWA ASSUWA ALLIANCE FALLS AND MOVES TO MYCENAE

Could BRYGIANS MOVE TO EAST, AT THAT ERA?
AT THE PEAK OF HETTITE EMPIRE?

1rst Colonisation is after COLLAPSE OF TROY
SO BRYGIANS DID NOT MOVE BEFORE MYCENAEANS DESTROY TROY,
AND SURELY NOT BEFORE SEA PEOPLES.

SO EITHER WE ACCEPT THAT BRYGIANS MOVED TO PHRYGIA LOGICALLY AFTER SEA PEOPLES
WHEN EVERYBODY MOVED AND MYCENAE COLLAPSE.

OR WE ACCEPT THAT THE PHRYGIANS OF HOMER, ARE NO THE BRYGIANS, AND PROBABLY NEVER THAT MOVED HAPPENED
BUT THE TRIBES THAT DIAKONOV RECOGNS

NOTICE
BRYGIANS ARE NOT ILLYRIANS


For all we know Illyrian was an umbrella term with only strict geographic definition, if I am not mistake. And Phyrgins most likely moved a millenia or so before the sea peoples. Since the sea peoples most likely where the armies that did not return to Greece for some 10 years after the end of the Troyan war. "According to this inscription, the Luwians from western Asia Minor contributed decisively to the so-called Sea Peoples' invasions – and thus to the end of the Bronze Age in the eastern Mediterranean.

Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2017-10-luwian-hieroglyphic-inscription-bronze-age.html#jCp"

https://phys.org/news/2017-10-luwian-hieroglyphic-inscription-bronze-age.html

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but inscription by Ramses II? mentions DRDN by hieroglyph as having battled vs the Egyptians.
 
The battle of kadesh mentions Dardanians in NW Anatolia in 1270 BC, so this is 70 years before the beginning of the "Balkanic Troy" archeological period (1200 - 950 BC).
So maybe they came a bit before this time.

Visualization of where the egyptians describe them in 1270 (Masa = Mysia):

D3P0cCM.png
 
For all we know Illyrian was an umbrella term with only strict geographic definition, if I am not mistake. And Phyrgins most likely moved a millenia or so before the sea peoples. Since the sea peoples most likely where the armies that did not return to Greece for some 10 years after the end of the Troyan war. "According to this inscription, the Luwians from western Asia Minor contributed decisively to the so-called Sea Peoples' invasions – and thus to the end of the Bronze Age in the eastern Mediterranean.

Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2017-10-luwian-hieroglyphic-inscription-bronze-age.html#jCp"

https://phys.org/news/2017-10-luwian-hieroglyphic-inscription-bronze-age.html

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but inscription by Ramses II? mentions DRDN by hieroglyph as having battled vs the Egyptians.

If Brygians moved a millenia before Troy,
Surely the names have no meaning,
As also they might return to Mycenae named as Arcades (Arza-wa=Arca-dia)
Before the Troyan War.

READ THIS 2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assuwa

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arzawa


The map of what was Phrygia before troyan war

14_century_BC_Eastern_Mediterranean_and_the_Middle_East.png



WHAT IS HISTORICALLY KNOWN AS PHRYGIA TODAY,
DID NOT EXISTED BEFORE COLLAPSE OF TROY.
IT WAS ARZAWA, WHICH IN GREEK BECOMES ARKADIA
 
Troy was Wilusa in your map. Arzawa would have been their allies, or even potentially on the belligerant side with the aecheans. Check where the Troad is. Isn't north-west of Arzawa?

Edit: Yes, it seems. "Modern scholars have often located Assuwa only in the north-west corner of Anatolia, an area centred north or north-west of the future Arzawa. This has made the inclusion of Caria, Lukka and/or Lycia problematic, as they were clearly located in south-west Anatolia. Their inclusion would mean that Assuwa included areas both north and south of Arzawa. However, the confederative structure of Assuwa may well have included states in two or more geographically separate, non-contiguous areas, which lacked a common land border."

Edit3: Proof: "The inhabitants of Hisarlik lived among a number of vigorous, interactive and often warlike cultures. Apart from the mainland Greeks whence they may have sprung, the Trojans counted such neighbours as the Hittites, Phrygians and Lydians. It has been suggested that the polity at ancient Hisarlik might be one and the same with that known to the Hittites as Wilusa.[7]"

"The unbroken occupation of the region around Hisarlik continued with the arrival of the Romans.[citation needed] Finally, after several centuries of trying, the Greeks gained control of the region once ruled by the Trojans. Around 1050-800 B.C., Ionian Greek refugees fled to Anatolia, to escape the Dorians. Many cities were founded along the Anatolian coast during the great period of Greek expansion after the eighth century B.C. One of these, Byzantium, a distant colony established on the Bosporus by the city-state of Megara, grew to supplant Rome and ultimately proved the downfall of Troy as it dominated all maritime and overland trade for almost 22 centuries"

So 3 centuries after the fall of Troy and the population fleeing, and Hyllis going to the Dorians and becoming king, they are attacked from the east? Guess by who...



Edit2: But what do you mean when you say "Surely the names would have no meaning"? From Agron of Ilum to Agron of Epirro-Illyrians there is at least 900 years... Does this mean it has no meaning?
 
Visualization of where the egyptians describe them in 1270 (Masa = Mysia):


D3P0cCM.png

Interesting in that region Ilion, Troy, Scmunader (Shkumbin?), Sard Mountain (Sharr?), Mount Ollympus*, and Lake Apollonius* are located... *Since renamed by the Seljuks.
 
Troy was Wilusa in your map. Arzawa would have been their allies, or even potentially on the belligerant side with the aecheans. Check where the Troad is. Isn't north-west of Arzawa?

Edit: Yes, it seems. "Modern scholars have often located Assuwa only in the north-west corner of Anatolia, an area centred north or north-west of the future Arzawa. This has made the inclusion of Caria, Lukka and/or Lycia problematic, as they were clearly located in south-west Anatolia. Their inclusion would mean that Assuwa included areas both north and south of Arzawa. However, the confederative structure of Assuwa may well have included states in two or more geographically separate, non-contiguous areas, which lacked a common land border."

Edit3: Proof: "The inhabitants of Hisarlik lived among a number of vigorous, interactive and often warlike cultures. Apart from the mainland Greeks whence they may have sprung, the Trojans counted such neighbours as the Hittites, Phrygians and Lydians. It has been suggested that the polity at ancient Hisarlik might be one and the same with that known to the Hittites as Wilusa.[7]"

"The unbroken occupation of the region around Hisarlik continued with the arrival of the Romans.[citation needed] Finally, after several centuries of trying, the Greeks gained control of the region once ruled by the Trojans. Around 1050-800 B.C., Ionian Greek refugees fled to Anatolia, to escape the Dorians. Many cities were founded along the Anatolian coast during the great period of Greek expansion after the eighth century B.C. One of these, Byzantium, a distant colony established on the Bosporus by the city-state of Megara, grew to supplant Rome and ultimately proved the downfall of Troy as it dominated all maritime and overland trade for almost 22 centuries"

So 3 centuries after the fall of Troy and the population fleeing, and Hyllis going to the Dorians and becoming king, they are attacked from the east? Guess by who...



Edit2: But what do you mean when you say "Surely the names would have no meaning"? From Agron of Ilum to Agron of Epirro-Illyrians there is at least 900 years... Does this mean it has no meaning?

Arzawa is what become Assuwa and Mycenean Allies
 

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