Who are the Dardanians of Europe and Troy? ( VIDEO )

[Sile]

First picture God ( Ba' al ) became equivalent with Belzebup, once the Judean canon God became Elohim, other relevant gods and populations got absorbed in favor of monotheism. Profet Elijah was one of the important figures in "destroying" Ba ' al and why he became symbol with the Devil, the Horns... Beelzebup etc.

My conclusion is that Albanians adopted double headed eagle in the times of Christianity since they converted, however retained six pointed star (some cognate of the star of David, or other hexagonal shape) both in the coat of arms of Illyricum in Croatia that has a Crescent and a Star, but also in Albania. However, in order to depict some post-Zoroastrian duality within Christianity... they had to get rid of the horned goat as a symbol of power... and shift to a byzantine double headed eagle. Both symbolizing "power" and duality in their own right.
We do see the goat as the coat of arms of the Gjuraj clan in Western Macedonia, although all the other clans changed their heraldry into eagles....
What is to be noted is that the Kastrioti clan retained the horned goat, however over a double headed eagle as a helmet. And I suspect this had to do with Kastrioti "tracing" their lineage to Phyrrus, since he had the horned hat. Also the Kastrioti clan for a while had a six pointed star, however different from early Illyrian floral 6 pointed stars, rather this one a full-colored gold Star of David.
For reference check the images below:

Croatian Ulluriae coat of arms... Star and crescent can be found in archeology across Bosnia all the way to Croatia. Will fin and update tomorrow.

Kastrioti Coat of Arms... (Note: Hexagon / Fully colored Star of David left / Six pointed Star, aking to Illyrian one right)

Only Gjuraj in Western Macedonia / Mat kept the goat in their coat of arms... However both the horns, as well as duality through the double headed eagle remained the main theme of the heraldry, from my analysis. I think there is a similar last name to Gjuraj in Italy too... Have to research their history.

I already told you...the top COA is to do with the illyrian provinces ( Dalmatia ) under french Napoleon .........the eight pointed star means honour and hope and the moon sitting as it is means faith
The albanians use a six pointed star

 

[Archetype0ne]

1. I already stated its from Croatia in the very post your are quoting, so gtfdown your high horse mate. Did they just make up a coat of Arms, without basing it in historical continuity for the region, when Napoleon came? Cause if you will claim such a thing, I am ready to provide you with gravestones and artifacts depicting a star and a crescent... all the way through Bosnia, to Croatia.
2. Your interpretation of the symbols is basic, but I will respect that. Just expand on what makes you lean towards that interpretation will ya?
Honour, Hope, Faith? Teletubies while we are at itXD

(1 Eight points star/ 2 Six point stars)(Some Albanian Woman with similar motifs 2000 Years Later)

In my interpretation... I will even give you that...; so you can keep dragging this conversation down with "Napoleon" style rhetoric.

The eight pointed star at the head of Alexander, is divided through a crescent (half moon) from two six pointed stars. You will realize there you have an early element of the trinity, some time before Christianity...

The eight pointed star as opposed to the two six pointed stars, is a symbol for realization, or in Alexander Kosmokrator case, a symbol of empire and power. Not a symbol of hope... or faith... or teletubies imo.

The realized Sun, Amon Ra himself walking among men... The sun (eight pointed as you very well noticed) was central to ancient religions... Not in greece but you get the idea. Since there is one Sun, many stars. Being the Sun in my interpretation, and Alexander being equated to the Sun has more to do with status and fulfillment (realization) than anything else.

But yeah... I like your analysis of honour, hope, and faith. Very Helpful.
Just do not throw crap at me with "is to do with the illyrian provinces ( Dalmatia )", when I already made such a claim clear as day in my post.


The eight pointed star at the helm represents the Sun... They were equating Leka with the Sun God... does not sound very greek to me...

(What? You did not address the Six point star?) Me Yll në ballë Leka shoqi...

Some graves...

^In Albania. They probably symbolize hope, honor and faith, mIrite?

In Bosnia & Herzegovina
v

(Anyone with any passion for symbolism can relate the Horns... Trinity... The Sun / Crescent Moon... and Duality from the above gravestones)

If you can't... here is a good read to get your head around pre-christian Religions and their diffusion in the ancient world.
(THE MESSAGE OF THE ALIEN GOD & THE BEGINNINGS OF CHRISTIANITYThe Gnostic ReligionHANS JONASTHIRD EDITION /
Hans Jonas (1903-1993) was born and educated in Germany,where he was a pupil of Martin Heidegger and Rudolf Bultmann. He left in 1933, when Hitler came into power, and in 1940 joined the British Army in the Middle East. After the war he taught at Hebrew University in Jerusalem and Carleton University in Ottawa, finally settling in the United States. He was the Alvin Johnson Professor of Philosophy on the Graduate Faculty of Political and Social Science at the New School for Social Research in New York. Professor Jonas was also author of, among other books, The Phenomenon of Life (1966). He died in 1993-)
(Wonderful book, if you really care about the religious/philosophical elements in ancient societies give it a read. At least the first couple of chapters IIRC dealing with Hellenism and Alexander as the main instigator of great cultural intercourse West-to-East and vice versa)

Also:

"Gnosticism became the first group to be declared heresy. Some scholars prefer to speak of "gnosis" when referring to first-century ideas that later developed into gnosticism, and to reserve the term "gnosticism" for the synthesis of these ideas into a coherent movement in the second century."
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism)


PS:I am officially out of this thread. It is bad for my health and well-being. Deep down I know whatever the truth is it will come out with time. And teletubies can't stop that.

@Sile you provided me with the Strabo source which was helpful, I grant you that (Strabo LUL)... But this faith, hope, honor stuff? Where did you even get that? I am doing my best to provide at least some backing material for what I claim... be it living language, google translate, archeology, weapons, shields, heraldry, gods, gravestones... Videos by people who are much more read then me in Classical Greek, with 98% like/dislike ratio and a Million views, claiming what I say is factual. From scientific papers (new science per Yetos) to corroborated legends by multiple classical historians, black on white...

Meanwhile I have to deal with this "Napoleon picked the heraldry for Croatia", and "Eight pointed star means faith, hope courage".
Oki brv... Show me one line backing you up.

 

[Sile]

Each COA passes heraldry guilds around the world......all symbols have a meaning , every different colour of a symbol means something different as well,

so if the star was white and eight pointed and straight lines
....means different things if it was gold eight pointed and wavy lines
.
if it does not follow these rules , it is fake like any person doodling a COA

 

[Yetos]

I think the thread becomes more funny,

We should make a movie,

 

[Johane Derite]

Also this is quite interesting and important:

Ancient Macedonian "βάσκιοι" (Baskioi), "βασκευταί" (Baskeutai) in Hesychius of Alexanders' glossary is defined as being related to Latin. "Fasces".


The relation to this Albanian cognate below is outstanding, and much closer than the cognate from Ancient Greek φάσκωλος (pháskōlos, “leathern bag, sack”):


Albanian. "Bashkë" (together, simultaneously) (cognate with Lating. "Fasces")
Albanian. "Bashkoj" (unite, bring together)
Albanian. "Bashkësi" (community)
(As a prefix "bashkë-" = "co-" as in "bashkë-" + ‎punoj (“I work”) → ‎bashkëpunoj (“I collaborate”)


There is also another separate Albanian "Bashkë" word which means "fleece, bunch of wool".


Also related with:


Middle Irish basc (“collar, neck chain”)


(Fasces is a bound bundle of wooden rods, sometimes including an axe with its blade emerging. The fasces had its origin in the Etruscan civilization and was passed on to ancient Rome, where it symbolized a magistrate's power and jurisdiction.)






Etymology of both Albanian "Bashkë" versions. (Albanische Etymologien (Untersuchungen zum albanischen Erbwortschatz), Bardhyl Demiraj, Leiden Studies ):

 

[Johane Derite]

Ancient Macedonian "βάσκιοι" (Baskioi), "βασκευταί" (Baskeutai) in Hesychius of Alexanders' glossary is defined as being related to Latin. "Fasces".


The relation to this Albanian cognate below is outstanding, and much closer than the cognate from Ancient Greek φάσκωλος (pháskōlos, “leathern bag, sack”):


Albanian. "Bashkë" (together, simultaneously) (cognate with Lating. "Fasces")
Albanian. "Bashkoj" (unite, bring together)
Albanian. "Bashkësi" (community)
(As a prefix "bashkë-" = "co-" as in "bashkë-" + ‎punoj (“I work”) → ‎bashkëpunoj (“I collaborate”)


There is also another separate Albanian "Bashkë" word which means "fleece, bunch of wool".


Also related with:


Middle Irish basc (“collar, neck chain”)


(Fasces is a bound bundle of wooden rods, sometimes including an axe with its blade emerging. The fasces had its origin in the Etruscan civilization and was passed on to ancient Rome, where it symbolized a magistrate's power and jurisdiction.)






Etymology of both Albanian "Bashkë" versions. (Albanische Etymologien (Untersuchungen zum albanischen Erbwortschatz), Bardhyl Demiraj, Leiden Studies ):

The english word "Basket" has no suggested etymology, and i think it makes sense that its a cognate with Fasces, Bashkë, βάσκιοι, etc

 

[Johane Derite]

The english word "Basket" has no suggested etymology, and i think it makes sense that its a cognate with Fasces, Bashkë, βάσκιοι, etc

The old physical anthropologists like Coon found "Dinaric" traits among the Dorians:

Albanian and Greek have many isoglosess between them that are not shared by any other Indo European language. This points to intense contact between Proto Greek & Proto Albanian in deep antiquity. The only place that comes to mind where such contact could have happened is Epirus where southern Illyrians and Dorian greeks could have intermingled.

It would also explain those Albanian words in laconian folk vocabulary (found in Alcmans poems, see Krzysztof Witczak).


These are just some recorded by Vladimir Orel:

 

[Neander]

Nobody can deny the link between dardans of europe and those of Troy.
There were many other tribes too: Moesians gave rise to mysians in Asia (also called mushki)
Paeonians to Maeonians in Lydia
Thynes (Thunatae) to Bithynians
Bryges to Bebrykes or later Phryges
Sardeates from Dalmatia to Sardis in Anatolia, shardana in sea peoples and Sardinia
Sikulotes from Illyria to Shekelesh, Sicilia,
It was a whole population that went there in two waves: first was migration of Dardanians, and then migration of Sea Peoples which destroyed Mikena, Troy, Hittite Empire, Syria and Palestina but was defeated in Delta by Ramzes, and then retired to near east where they form Palestine
Even those Palestines came from Paleste (city in todays south Albania called Palasa), they went to Crete first and then to Palestine after defeat of Delta.

 

[bigsnake49]

Dardanoi were probably the tribe that lived in the city of Dardanus, on the Asian side of the Dardanelles strait. As such they were allies of the Trojans.

People also need to understand that the Iliad and Odyssey are not necessarily geographically precise. So lay off the migrations based on what Homer may or may not have said. For all we know Moesans and Mysians are exactly the same people living in exactly the same place. Unless there is some archaeological evidence to support your theories, that's all they are right now, theories.

 

[exercitus]

Hi actually, except the etymological issue, concerning the anthroponym - Bard (which, even if we consider trustworthy the phonetic development g* >*dz >*d > dh !, the BARZIDIHI, BARZIDES anthroponyms fits here perfectly as a missing link, knowing that the Messapian language was 'detached' from the Balkanic tongue "Illyrian", at least from the XI century BC ), what really impressed me is the issue of it's distribution, i will give you some wellknown examples;

- Aurelius Bardibalus, Moesia Superiore II century AD (actually is a name with a typical Dacian structure, - balus (Decebalus, Gesubalus etc), but the fact that it contains - bard, suggests an "Illyrian" origin). - Liccae Bardi, the 'Illyrian' in Miseno II century AD
- Aplini Bardurio Pladomeni in Minicipium Riditarium II century AD https://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/edh/inschrift/HD057890&lang=en
Rider - http://dare.ht.lu.se/places/41974.html
- Bardulos, Messapian - https://i.imgur.com/BgC3UiE.png
- Βαρδύλης \ Bardyli "Illyrian" King IV century BC etc.

so besides these cases - that create the impression that this anthroponym is distributed only in the Delmate and Dardanian inhabited areas as is pointed out in different discussions (for example by Katicic, Papazoglou, Alfoldy etc), in order to exclude the category of "Illyrii proprie dicti" - we also have some extraordinary interestingly examples, that I haven't found anyway quoted, even by the Albanian scholars, to be more concrete, i have encountered in the Greek inscriptions founded mostly in the territory of Ancient Macedonia, - you can check it in this site https://inscriptions.packhum.org/search?patt=bard - , few (- Bard) Anthroponyms, i will list them below;

- Bardi \ Βαρδίας Ἡρακλείδου in Beroia, I century BC https://inscriptions.packhum.org/text/149642?hs=99-104
from the book of A. Tataki "Ancient Prosopography of Beroea and Society" https://helios-eie.ekt.gr/EIE/bitstream/10442/7473/2/A01.008.0.pdf , i will quote some fragments;
1- Page 363 up; The foreign names in this group are represented by the Illyrian Βαρδείας\Bardi, which also occurs at Mieza, while the Illyrian Πλευρατος\Pleurat and the Thracian Σιτάλκης both occur again.
2- reference nr 248; . A. Struck, Μ27 (1902) 314 no. 28 line 12. See also I. Russu, EphDac 8 (1938) 179; cf. Krähe, Personennamen 16, Βάρδυλις|Bardyli, and in Thessalonike, Βαρδίων\Bardion, IG Χ 2, 1 781.
3- Page 430; . The former of these names is probably to be connected with the settlement of Illyrians at Beroea and other cities of Macedonia mentioned by Livy, and dated to the period of Antigonos Doson or Philip V.

- Bardi\Βαρδίας Ἡρο.. Mieza\Kopanos II century BC https://inscriptions.packhum.org/text/151190?hs=520-525
- μημόριν Bardio \Βαρδίωνος παλατίνου Mygdonia Thessaloniki V century AD, - in the memory of Bardion* Palatinou - page 142 https://www.persee.fr/doc/bch_0304-2456_1983_sup_8_1_5246 , https://inscriptions.packhum.org/text/137969?hs=88-93
- eunuch Bardio*, in the service of Emperor Costance II, IV century AD ,https://books.google.it/books?id=f7...wAHoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=eunuch bardio&f=false
- Δημήτριε Βαρδίλεως\Bardyleo* Kyme Aeolis Aegean shore , not dated https://inscriptions.packhum.org/text/268335?hs=133-138,218-223

We notice the appearing in the 'Historic Scene' after the 8th century AD, of the Barda (Varda) Armenian anthroponyms - for example, Barda Foka - in the progeny of the Byzantine dynasties of Armenian origin. Also in Gallia, Germany and North Noricum it is rarely encountered the Celtic patronymy (not Anthroponymy !!) -Bard, both Armenian and Celts, were far apart from the geographical and temporal point of view, so that we could attribute to these populations the Anthroponyms with - Bard root !!! The obvious conclusion is that the Bard\Bardio Anthroponyms in Ancient Macedonia were "Illyrian", probably from southern Illyria !!

 

[exercitus]

The second anthroponym, which has a clear and undeniable etymology, are the names with the basis - Ulc\Ulk, without much prolongation by considering also the Toponyms with the basis - Ulc\Ulk that are much more than the Anthroponyms (e.g Ulcinium, Ulcirus mons, Ulcisia Castra, Ulcea pal, Ulcianum etc) and are found exclusively in 'Illyrian-speaking' territories. A list of names as below;

- Ulca Procula, Siscia Pannonia II century AD, page 488 ;https://www.academia.edu/513800/Les_plombs_inscrits_de_Siscia

- Ulcudius Beadari, Delmatian settler in Alburnus Maior, II century AD, page 115; https://www.academia.edu/2114854/THE_BARBARIANS_WITHIN._ILLYRIAN_COLONISTS_IN_ROMAN_DACIA

- Ουλκ(ου) ∙Τιου \ Ulku - Tiou, years 70-130 AD, a inscription discovered in Dragodan - Historic Thracia - few chilometres far from Ancient Dardania; https://inscriptions.packhum.org/text/301422?hs=83-88

The first name is typical "Illyrian" the second, typical Thracian, for more information about the Daco-Thracian Anthroponomy I suggest the writings of Svetlana Janakieva and Dan Dani !! Just to clarify a few things the name in greek - Οὐλκάκιος - correspond and is letterally the translation of the latin name - Volcacius - , that is why we should not confuse Οὐλκάκιος with Ουλκου - notice carefully the differences - !!

 

[exercitus]

Now about the Eastern & North & South Dardania-Moesia Superior, ethnic composition, few words;

from this site https://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/inschrift/suche?qs=Scupi&start=20 you can check the non-latin -i.e Thracian & Illyrian anthroponymy\ethnicity of the inhabitants of the southern Dardanian\ north-western Paeonia area - Scupi (Skopje-Shkupi), Statio Vizianum & Statio Lamud -(Kumanovo),Lipkovo, Staro Nagoricane, Kacanik etc

Scupi -(Skopje-Shkupi),
- Lumia Andia Dasi* filia ( Illyrian, i will mention it also below!)
- Delus coniux / et Bithus filius ( Thracian )
- Delus Mucati filia ( Thracian )
- Valeria Lysimache marito ( Thracian )
from Viminacium, AD 196
- Marcus Aurelius Dassius* Scupis ( Illyrian )
- Bithus Scupis ( Thracian )
- Dardanus* Longinus et Longus fili ( Illyrian Dardanian )
- Timoni Dassi* decurioni cohortis II Aureliae Dardanorum ( Illyrian Dardanian )
- Scupinorum et Aelia Genthiane** eius ( Illyrian )

Lipkovo ( eastern Scupi )
- Epicadus** Sacerdos ( Illyrian )


Staro Nagoričane ( north-eastern Bederiana !! )
- Gemelinus Dardanos* ( Illyrian Dardanian )


Statio Vizianum & Statio Lamud -(Kumanovo !!)
- Lumia Andia Dasi* filia ( Illyrian )
- Iucunda / Bithi filia ( Thracian )
- Publius Aelius Balli/sta ( Illyrian ?)
in Statio Vizianum & Statio Lamud,
- vectigalis Illyrici* servus contrascriptor stationis / Lamud(---) quam voverat contrascriptor stationis Viziani // Apollonidess Viziani // Gentiano** et Basso consulibus ( Illyrian )
- [------]/thae filius Bessus ( Thracian )


Kacanik ( north of Scupi)
- Ulpius Andinus* / et Aurelia ( Illyrian )
- Deo / Andino* ( Illyrian )

Bujanovac ( Southern Serbia ),
- Ulpia Andia ( Illyrian )

Aranđelovac ( central Serbia\Moesia Superior)
- Pinnes Dasi* vixit annos ( Illyrian)
- Aurelii Dasius* ( Illyrian )

Knjaževac (Timacus Maius & Minus, north-eastern Naissus ),
- Dassius* / veteranus (Illyrian )
- Flavio Bitho ( Thracian )
- Aurelius Bithus veteranus ( Thracian )
In this area in the inscriptions the - Cohors II Aurelia Dardanorum* - is mentioned 19 times ... instead the Cohors Thracorum only 6 times !!


Ražanj ( Dasminium* , Illyrian name of the Town north of Naissus !!)


Niš ( Naissus, Moesia Superior ),
- et Licinio filio Andiae * ( Illyrian )
- Annus Dasi* pater ( Illyrian )
- Gentione* ? qui ( Illyrian )

This is for all those who are convinced that there were No Illyrians in Eastern and North Dardania (Moesia Superior), today Central-south Serbia ...

 

[torzio]

Now about the Eastern & North & South Dardania-Moesia Superior, ethnic composition, few words;

from this site https://edh-www.adw.uni-heidelberg.de/inschrift/suche?qs=Scupi&start=20 you can check the non-latin -i.e Thracian & Illyrian anthroponymy\ethnicity of the inhabitants of the southern Dardanian\ north-western Paeonia area - Scupi (Skopje-Shkupi), Statio Vizianum & Statio Lamud -(Kumanovo),Lipkovo, Staro Nagoricane, Kacanik etc

Scupi -(Skopje-Shkupi),
- Lumia Andia Dasi* filia ( Illyrian, i will mention it also below!)
- Delus coniux / et Bithus filius ( Thracian )
- Delus Mucati filia ( Thracian )
- Valeria Lysimache marito ( Thracian )
from Viminacium, AD 196
- Marcus Aurelius Dassius* Scupis ( Illyrian )
- Bithus Scupis ( Thracian )
- Dardanus* Longinus et Longus fili ( Illyrian Dardanian )
- Timoni Dassi* decurioni cohortis II Aureliae Dardanorum ( Illyrian Dardanian )
- Scupinorum et Aelia Genthiane** eius ( Illyrian )

Lipkovo ( eastern Scupi )
- Epicadus** Sacerdos ( Illyrian )


Staro Nagoričane ( north-eastern Bederiana !! )
- Gemelinus Dardanos* ( Illyrian Dardanian )


Statio Vizianum & Statio Lamud -(Kumanovo !!)
- Lumia Andia Dasi* filia ( Illyrian )
- Iucunda / Bithi filia ( Thracian )
- Publius Aelius Balli/sta ( Illyrian ?)
in Statio Vizianum & Statio Lamud,
- vectigalis Illyrici* servus contrascriptor stationis / Lamud(---) quam voverat contrascriptor stationis Viziani // Apollonidess Viziani // Gentiano** et Basso consulibus ( Illyrian )
- [------]/thae filius Bessus ( Thracian )


Kacanik ( north of Scupi)
- Ulpius Andinus* / et Aurelia ( Illyrian )
- Deo / Andino* ( Illyrian )

Bujanovac ( Southern Serbia ),
- Ulpia Andia ( Illyrian )

Aranđelovac ( central Serbia\Moesia Superior)
- Pinnes Dasi* vixit annos ( Illyrian)
- Aurelii Dasius* ( Illyrian )

Knjaževac (Timacus Maius & Minus, north-eastern Naissus ),
- Dassius* / veteranus (Illyrian )
- Flavio Bitho ( Thracian )
- Aurelius Bithus veteranus ( Thracian )
In this area in the inscriptions the - Cohors II Aurelia Dardanorum* - is mentioned 19 times ... instead the Cohors Thracorum only 6 times !!


Ražanj ( Dasminium* , Illyrian name of the Town north of Naissus !!)


Niš ( Naissus, Moesia Superior ),
- et Licinio filio Andiae * ( Illyrian )
- Annus Dasi* pater ( Illyrian )
- Gentione* ? qui ( Illyrian )

This is for all those who are convinced that there were No Illyrians in Eastern and North Dardania (Moesia Superior), today Central-south Serbia ...

it all depends on who you think the Paeonia people are ..............sitting south of the dardanians , but north of the macedonians
then
what about the halstatt culture mixture of celtic and illyrian circa 1000BC in noricum ( east austria ).............how far south did the celts get to before the romans landed in the balkans circa 200BC

 

[bigsnake49]

The Celts invaded the Balkans in the third century BC. They invaded Greece and were defeated in 2 great battles in Thermopylae and Delphi in 279. A division of Celts even crossed into Anatolia and settled in Galatia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_settlement_of_Southeast_Europe

 

[Yetos]

The Celts invaded the Balkans in the third century BC. They invaded Greece and were defeated in 2 great battles in Thermopylae and Delphi in 279. A division of Celts even crossed into Anatolia and settled in Galatia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_settlement_of_Southeast_Europe

these are the Gauls,
offcourse Gauls are Celts.

There is a previous entrance of Celts from Noricum the Illyrian proprie.
the term Illyrian today has 2 meanings,
although in most ancient Greeks had 1 meaning.

Illyrian for most ancient Greeks were the Illyrian proprie people,
and they were Celtic origin,

the modern term, is because modern scholars can not distinguish Roman Illyricum, and Illyria proprie,
so many times the term has no meaning or is driving to wrong conclusions, especially to Greek paideia people.
for Greeks consider Illyria, only the Illyria proprie, same as Makedonia,
For us the Greeks the Roman Illyricum, and Roman Makedonia have different meaning

so for many modern scholars the term Illyrian has nothing to do with Illyrian proprie,
rather a wider term of Roman Illyricum, including Pannonia, Dalmatia etc,

Until scholars define the terms Illyrian, and Illyrian proprie,
misunderstandings will be a lot

Illyrian proprie were Celt, or Celtoids
Illyrians of Illyricum, is rather a more connected to area population, a more local Balcanic population,

 

[Johane Derite]

Matzinger, who doesn't even believe Albanian to be a direct descendant of Illyrian, but rather a contiguous sister language of it, says that Albanian is like illyrian and messapic. This means illyrian and messapic cannot be celtic languages, but are albanoid languages. So even the most critical skeptic linguists are now conceding this.

 

[Johane Derite]

"Not one of the peoples with whom we have to deal in this book has such aclaim to the epithet ?Balkan,? as the Dardanians. Not only because theirterritory lay in the heart of the Balkans, but also because they appear as themost stable and most conservative ethnic element in the area whereeverything was exposed to constant change, and also because they, withtheir roots in the distant pre-Homeric age, and living on the frontiers ofthe Illyrian and Thracian worlds, retained their individuality and, aloneamong the peoples of that region, succeeded in maintaining themselvesas an ethnic unity even when they were militarily and politicallysubjugated by the Roman arms."

 

[torzio]

it is clear that proto-albanians came from Dardanians ................and where only mixed with thracians. illyrians, macedonians and paeonians after these peoples invaded the rich fertile lands of Dardanian moesia.......I would like to know if there is a true connection with the dardanians that lived on the dardanelles in bronze times

 

[Johane Derite]

One day you say its clear proto-Albs were epirotes, the next you say they were dardanians. The truth is both, the southernmost Albos descend from epirotes, the northern most from dardanians, central from taulantians, etc.

Dardanians linguistically were same as Illyrians, even if culturally they could have had different contacts.

Noel Malcolm:

"Kosovo itself was part of the tribal land of the Dardanians, who almost certainly belonged to the Illyrian grouping. 36


36. Stipcevic, Iliri, p. 30 and n.; Mirdita, Studime dardane, pp. 7-46; Papazoglu, Central Balkan Tribes, pp. 210-69.

As Papazoglu notes, most ancient sources classify Dardanians as Illyrians. Her reasons for rejecting this identification in a later essay, 'Les Royaumes', are obscure. There were Thracian names in the eastern strip of Dardania, but Illyrian names dominated the rest; Katicic has shown that these belong with two other Illyrian 'onomastic provinces' (see his summary in Ancient Languages, pp. 179-81, and the evidence in Papazoglu, 'Dardanska onomastika').

 

[valentinavalley2]

I don’t want to sound like a ***** so I’ll be humble and say nothing.

But if I want to honest, I believe that Dardania in Europe are actually connected to Dardanians of
Troy. The history and stories and names all fit in.


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