Who are the Dardanians of Europe and Troy? ( VIDEO )

[Johane Derite]

Actually, Brygian and Macedonian phonology is more similar to Albanian in many instances.

We have the famous example of the Albanian word for bread: "Bukë" from Proto-Indo-European *bʰōg 'to roast, to bake'.

Compare the Phrygian "Bekos" (also meaning Bread) in the famous Pharoah story from Herodotus.

The Ancient Greek φώγω (phṓgō, “roast”, verb) shows quite a different development...

 

[Johane Derite]

Actually, Brygian and Macedonian phonology is more similar to Albanian in many instances.

We have the famous example of the Albanian word for bread: "Bukë" from Proto-Indo-European *bʰōg 'to roast, to bake'.

Compare the Phrygian "Bekos" (also meaning Bread) in the famous Pharoah story from Herodotus.

The Ancient Greek φώγω (phṓgō, “roast”, verb) shows quite a different development...

Also, Macedonian seems to have had a phonological feature that marks it as quite different from Greek dialects.

This is the correspondence of a sound written with B, to Ph in Greek.

Crossland says that this change puts Macedonian closer in phonology to Illyrian and Thracian than to Greek.

(R. A. Crossland, "The Language of the Macedonians", Cambridge Ancient History III, 1 (1982) 843-47.)

Important to note the Albanian has this phonological feature today also.

 

[Yetos]

Actually, Brygian and Macedonian phonology is more similar to Albanian in many instances.

We have the famous example of the Albanian word for bread: "Bukë" from Proto-Indo-European *bʰōg 'to roast, to bake'.

Compare the Phrygian "Bekos" (also meaning Bread) in the famous Pharoah story from Herodotus.

The Ancient Greek φώγω (phṓgō, “roast”, verb) shows quite a different development...

hmm

Interesting, I will put +1 fame for that tough observation, truth
Now plz explain us how PIE *b^h to B and *h[SUB]3[/SUB] or *g to K
in Albanian language,under which IE linguistic law,

There is a chance that in Proto-Greek so in Makedonian to be Βωγω
But the PIE might be B^heh[SUB]3[/SUB]g not bʰōg


But
if you can not prove under which law PIE *B^h turns to B as also the rest *h3 *g or *'g
then word Buke for bread maybe is not Albanian, it could be a loan,

for example the English bag from PIE *b^hak how should be in Albanian,

I leave that to you to find out.

 

[Archetype0ne]

Te bekofte Zoti o Yetos, se ja ke fut kot e ke nevojë.*

Edited to note something meaningful: "Blessed be the Lord, O Yet, that thou hast gone in vain, and needest." - That is the google translate rendition of my colloquial Albanian* phrase to Yetos above. Even a machine such as Googles system can decipher the deeper meaning conveyed by the sentence, as opposed to the modern colloquial English rendition of the very same sentence "God bless you Yetos, cause you are full of crap, and you need it."

If a machine notices such features, let him who has eyes also notice.



===============================================

(˚)æuta- 'haste, alacrity'NSg ˚æu-u-ta-aš: XXIII 1 iv 20.21.ASg æu-u-ta-an: 92 Ro 27.30.Base of æutarla- 'slave, servant'. See Eichner, Or 52.57ff, andalso Starke, StBoT 31.362ff, but æūta is merely collectiveplural to the anim. stem! " --pg 78

Might be related to AL for huti. Eg. Në huti e siper. Also "hutuar" in Albanian means mad. The root of the word could stem from "Hutohu!" might denominate the equivalent to what is in western languages "(Go)Berzerk! " Note: Go, is implied by the mode the verb is found in "hutohu". In essence Hutohu would mean (You) (Go) Berzerk + suffix in order to create a verb. The verb would be used in modern Albanian with a (!) because of its mode. Some dialects render this word as "huteja". Ho-u-ta-u.
===============================================
"æuišti- 'cry of (birth)pain' (?)NSg æu-u-i-iš-ti-iš: 87,6.NPl æu-iš-ti-in-zi: 102 iv 8*; 103 iii 8; KBo VIII 130 iii 6*.æu-u-iš-ti-in-zi: 143,8; 145 ii 1*.æu-u-i-iš-ti-in-zi: 108,4.[æu-u-i]š-te-in-zi: XVII 15 ii 6* (error for acc.!)APl æu-u-iš-ti-in-za: 145 ii 14." --pg 83

Might be related to AL "hujdi". U be hujdi n mejdan. Xhullurdi could be related also. Albanian for chaos, panic.
===============================================
"īkkunānt(i)- '?' (to preceding, but sense unclear)ASg ik-ku-na-a-an-ti-en: 35,3." --pg 86

Might be related to Albanian kunat. Can't recall which family member it was.
===============================================
*īlæā(i)- 'wash'Pres1Sg el-æa-ú-i: KBo XXIX 49 Ro 3.4.Pres3Sg il-æa-ti: XXVII 26,6 (+ -ti).Pret1Sg e-el-æa-a-æa: 93 Ro(!) 8.9*.Imv3Sg e-el-æa-a-du: 39 ii 14 (+ -ti).Meaning with Meriggi, WZKM 53.223, and Athenaeum 35.62.Cf. also 39 iii 11*. " --pg87

Might be related to AL, laj, wash.

"ililæā- 'wash (off)'Pres3Sg i-li-il-æa-a-i: 21 Vo 30 (+ -ti).[i-li-i]l-æ[a]-i: XXXII 9 Ro 16* (+ -ti).[i-l]i-el-æa-a-i: 62,2* (+ -ti).Imv3Pl e-li-el-æa-a-an-du: 39 ii 10.26 (both + -mmaš as refl.). e-li-el-æa-an-du: 39 ii 4. -pg 87. Note: Not a duplicate.

Here it should be noted the the main difference between the above examples is the genitive prefix in Albanian of "i". In this case implying the gender of the subject being washed, through the pre-fix. Here the initial "i" implies the gender of the subject of the verb is masculine, as opposed to the prefix used for feminine subjects, "e". eg: I laj, E lan.

===============================================
"imma 'indeed'im-ma: 133 iii 10.11; KBo IV 11,50.51; XIII 261,3.Asseverative particle = Hitt. imma and HLuv. i-ma 'idem'." --pg 88.

Might be connected to Albanian nimen, ni (singular) men(mind), meaning something aking to asuredly/surely in English. eg: " Me nimen... "

===============================================

Need I go scower the other 200 pages of the lexicon, to provide enough proof to you Yetos? Anyways, why do you care so dearly about Albanian mate? xD


Or Ygorcs for that matter... If he is gong to claim to me now that Albanian has no connection to Bronze Age Anatolian IE he better have some good proof and sources...

Edit: Adding more for fun ; ).

=============================================================================

"iræatta- 'circle'DSg ir-æa-a-at-t: IBoT II 19,5.ir-æa-at-ti: XXV 32 + XXVII 70 ii 16.49.iii 12.APl ir-æa-at-ta-an-za: XX 74 vi 9. " --pg 91

Might be related to Albanian: Rreth , Rrota; Italian: Ruota. Someone from some mountainous village would easily sound like he is saying Roaeta in his own dialect. Coincidentally such a person would call his belt (circular) Rreyp.

=============================================================================

"lāla/i- 'tongue; gossip'NSg EME-iš: 21 Ro 26.27.Vo 21*.24.; 28 i 6; 29 i 4*; 49 iv 8; 77 ii 3;XXXII 9 Ro 9; KBo XXIX 7,4; XXIX 52,3.la-li-iš: KBo XXIX 38 Vo 18(?).ASg la-a-li-in: XXV 37 ii 38(?).(UZU)EME-in: 21 Vo 31; 23,2*; 28 i 10; 29 i 8*.14*; 43 ii 30.iii37; 45 iii 17.19.25; 59 ii 5*.8; 70 ii 5; 77 iii 1; XXXII 8+5iii 14.19; KBo VII 68 ii 17; XXIX 5,4*; XXIX 46,3.EME-en: KBo XXII 254 Ro 7*.9.EME-an(!): 58 iii 11.NPl EME.MEŠ-in-zi: 49 iv 1.2.EME-in-[zi]: 59 ii 8*.AbIn EME-ti: 21 Vo 32*.34; 23,3; 24,4*; 26,8; 48 iii 6; 51 iii 5; 58,5;76,2; KBo XXIX 21,2; XXX 190 iii 3.GenAdjDLa-la-aš-ši-: KBo IV 13 i 5.Unclear EME-ma at 54 ii 5: ptc. of denom. verb?? Cf. perh.lāliya. Although reading lāla/i- for 'tongue' is virtuallycertain, the contexts do not guarantee that the exx. lališ andlālin belong here. " --pg122

Might be related to Albanian llapa (toungue), llaf/llafi (word).

=========================================

"mallit- 'honey'N-ASg ma-al-li: 39 ii 12.16.28*.ma-al--i-: XXXII 8+5 iii 27.D-LSg LÀL-i: 69,10 (// Ì-i).133AbIn ma-al-li-i-ta-a-ti: 39 ii 3*.11.ma-al-li-ta-a-ti: 39 ii 27.iii 11* (contra DLL 33, StBoT 30.114).Contra Starke, StBoT 31.192f, regular reflex of CA *mélid-,"lenited" from *mélit-. Hitt. militt- (thus w/Starke) hasundone lenition, as usual." --pg 132.

Might be related to Albanian mjalt (honey), but also Albanian "mall":


noun
commodity mall, produkt, artikull

goods mall, pronë, ngarkesë, gjëra të nevojshme, sende personale

longing dëshirë e madhe, mall, përgjërim, dëshirim, gllënjkë

yearning mall, dëshirë e zjarrtë

nostalgia nostalgji, mall, mall për të kaluarën

================================================

"æūæa- 'grandfather'AbIn æu-u-æa-ti: KBo IX 141 i 3.For correct reading see Starke, StBoT 30.126. Cf. for form withsingle -æ- Lyc. xuga- (regularly < *h2éuh2o- vs. Hitt.æuææa-). " --pg71

Most likely related to Albanian Gjyshë, grandfather.

Interestingly enough as can be further seen:

"æuæat(t)alla/i- 'of one's grandfather, ancestral'N-APlNt æu-æa--da-al-l[a]: XXXIII 106 ii 61.Luvian, not Hittite, as per Starke, KZ 100.260f & StBoT 31.306,as shown by suffix -alla/i-. Base seen in HLuv. /huhat(i)-/." --pg

The above plural for grandfathers, takes similar ending to some local dialects, Gjyshallarë (albeit rare and archaic), alternatively Toskses and Ghegs might use the plural Gjyshër. Similar to how Baballare (of one;s father, ancestral) takes plural in Albanian.

================================================

parran 'before, in front'Postposition: pár-ra-an: 21 Ro 17.Vo 32; 53,14*; 54 ii 40.iii 7; 55,10; KBoXXIX 52,7.Preverb: pár-ra-a-an: XXV 39 iv 20.Indeterminate: 35,4*; 63,3.= Hitt. pēran, HLuv. pa+ra/i-n(a). " --pg166

Per-para (AL) Before(.) In-front(.), Forth(!) (EN)

Also I remember reading about a positive attribution of "Priam" - as deriving from "courageous" "leader"... will add source once i find it in my bookmarks.
In modern Albanian i Pari - means the First. While Prijës means Leader. That's why I bookmarked the source. Till then, I will use the current source I have to legitimize such hypothesis.


"paræ(a)- 'drive, chase' (?)Imv3Sg pár-æa-ad-du: XXV 39 iv 10.Istanuvian variant of par(a)- above without deletion of -æ-? " pg 167-8

"parī 'forth, away'+ patza-: 54 iii 9.11.+ šā-: KBo XXIX 35,11; XXIX 44 RC 6.+ tarawiya-: 54 ii 35.+ wiši-: 98,13; 110,7 (pa-ri-i).+ ?: 60 iii 2 (parī=ata); 85,2 (parī[ ]); KBo VII 68 ii 18(pari=pa).= HLuv. pa+ra/i, Hitt. parā. Cf. also KBo XXIX 28,12 andparittarwa-. The form pa-a-ri at 133 iv 13 is quite unclear " pg 168

(˚)tapar- 'rule, govern'Pres2Sg ta-pár-ši: XXXI 136 iii 3.Pret1Sg ˚t/da-pár-æa: I 1 i 27.65.ii 61.74; XIX 56 i 4; KBo III 6 i 23.ii46.53.Pret3Sg (˚)ta-pa-ar-ta: XIV 4 i 8.11.17; KBo III 4 iii 73.76; XVI 17 iii 31.ta-pár-ta: XIV 17 ii 35.57.Imv3Sg ˚ta-pár-du: I 1 iv 78.Inf ta-pa-ru-na: XIX 29 iv 21.As per Starke, StBoT 31.259, w/refs., 2ary stem < *tapariyaseen in HLuvian and Hitt. borr. taparriya(i)-.

tap(a)ramman- 'ruling, governing'N-APl ta-pa-ra-am-ma: IX 34 iii 39.Action noun to preceding. See Starke, StBoT 31.259.

==================================================

Edit to add the sources I mention beforehand:
"Most scholars take the etymology of the name from the Luwian (Pa-ri-a-mu-a-, or “exceptionally courageous”)^[1][2] and was attested as the name of a man from Zazlippa, in Kizzuwatna. A similar form is attested transcribed in Greek as Paramoas near Kaisareia in Cappadocia.^[3]

A popular folk etymology derives the name from the Greek verb priamai, meaning 'to buy'. This in turn gives rise to a story of Priam's sister Hesione ransoming his freedom from Heracles, thereby 'buying' him.^[4] This story is attested in the Bibliotheca and in other influential mythographical works dated to the first and second centuries AD.^[5] These sources should be taken with a grain of salt, however, as they do date to a much later period in antiquity than the first attestations of the name Priamos or Pariya-muwas are found in."

Much corruption, such WOW.


Pa-rim / Pa-rim-i - (AL) for Principle / The Principle
Pa-ra / Pa-rat - (AL) for Money / The Money

Now, which comes first in human development, Principles or money?
Or for that matter what is more important and hence primal ?

My man laying the law above... He had his priorites straight, unlike proto-Greek folk two centuries before him. Righteousness can not be bought, neither courage, neither principle, neither leadership.



But I guess in second century BC, whoever wrote the Bibliotheca from the proto-Greeks, had lost his principles, thinking the ethymology similar to "pari" "money" for... Parim " principle"...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priam


"King Priam is the Trojan king in Homer's 'The Iliad'. He is a caring father and courageous king, but he lets Paris, his son, do as he pleases, which results in the fight with the Achaeans. This lesson teaches you all about King Priam's character."

https://study.com/academy/lesson/king-priam-in-the-iliad-characteristics-analysis.html

=============================================================


"pupulā[ ] 'write'Form? pu-pu-la-a-[ ]: KBo XXIX 34 i 15.Cf. HLuv. pu-pu-la- 'write'." --pg 179

Albanian "pupla" means feather...


===================================================

"puppušša- 'crush'P3SgM pu-up-pu-uš-ša--ta-ri: VII 38+ iii 13.Starke, StBoT 31.332. Redup. iter. to puwa-. Cf. *pušša-. " pg 179

Albanian përplasa means smash.

=====================================================

šarra '(up)on; thereon'Preposition: šar-ra: 14 i 9*; XXXII 8+5 iv 22.Adverb: šar-ra: 124 ii 5.ša-ar-ra: 103 iii 14.Indeterminate: šar-ra: 49 i 4; 65 iii 9; 123 iv 4*; XXXII 13,11.ša-ar-r[a]: 137 Vo 1.Cf. šarri. Formal relationship to šarri and Hitt. šarā notentirely clear " pg 188

šarri 'above; up' also 'for'?Adverb: šar-ri: 45 ii 25; 48 ii 19*; IX 34 i 10-11; KBo XXIX 10,8; IBoT99,9-10.Preverb: ša-ar-ri: 88 iii 13.Preposition: šar-ri: VII 53 + XII 58 i 58.59.Postposition: šar-ri: KBo XXIX 16 ii 3.4 (?).= Hitt. šēr

======================================================

tāta/i- 'father'N/VSg ta-a-ti-iš: 68,16; 95,6; 103 ii 9.16; KBo IX 141 i 19.ASg ta-a-ti-in: KBo IX 143 iii(!) 10.D-LSg da-a-ti-i: 107 iii 10; KBo XIII 260 ii 33*(?).[d]a-a-ti: KBo XXIX 52,7.NPl ta-ti-in-zi: IX 31 ii 30; HT 1 ii 6.= HLuv. ta-ta/i- and Lyc. *tede-. Stem w/"i-motion" assured byHLuv. & deriv. tatalla/i-, pace Starke, KZ 100.254 et aliter


Në emër t'At'it, të birit, dhe të shpirtitë të shenjtë.

I Ati
Të Atit
Të Atin

Note again: When we input the above sentence of colloquial Albanian into google translate. We get the following output:
"In the name of Father, son, and holy spirits.

Meaning, Google's system can detect the rule for, t'at'it meaning father, rather than other just as viable possibilities such as "of his(tëatitë/tëatija)". As for the translations of the verbs in their respective forms: Father (His Father) / Father's (Of His Father)/ The Father ( His Father(e)st? beyond my ability to explain in English).
It should be noted there is no such form as T'AT'IT in Modern Albanian, instead the modern verb collapses to one of the above modes... How google set up a system that can catch that... that is beyond me.

 

[Johane Derite]

Also, Macedonian seems to have had a phonological feature that marks it as quite different from Greek dialects.

This is the correspondence of a sound written with B, to Ph in Greek.

Crossland says that this change puts Macedonian closer in phonology to Illyrian and Thracian than to Greek.

(R. A. Crossland, "The Language of the Macedonians", Cambridge Ancient History III, 1 (1982) 843-47.)

Important to note the Albanian has this phonological feature today also.

Here is the full quote:

"The equation (Macedonian) άβρούτες /(Greek) όΦρύες (Skt. bhru- Avestan. br{u)vat-, MIrish. bruad-) shows that the labial sound was the Macedonian reflex of Indo-European *bh.

The change of the Indo-European voiced aspirates (bh, dh, gh) to voiceless aspirates (Φ ,θ,χ) was one of the developments which were shared by all recognized Greek dialects and which differentiate Greek from other Indo-European languages.

If a putative Macedonian dialect of prehistoric Greek did not share it, then it would have become differentiated before any other dialect became equally aberrant and it seems unlikely that those who spoke it would thereafter have remained in sufficiently close linguistic contact with those who spoke the other dialects to remain intelligible to them and develop in common the subsequent innovations which are characteristic of Greek as a whole.

On the other hand, if the late prehistoric form of Macedonian had shared the change of voiced aspirates to voiceless it seems improbable that the resulting voiceless phonemes would subsequently have changed back to voiced phonemes generally in Macedonian by the fifth century B.C.The change puts Macedonian closer to Illyrian and Thracian in phonology than to Greek"

R. A. Crossland,
"The Language of the Macedonians",
Cambridge Ancient History III, 1
Pg 846

 

[Yetos]

@ Derite


I wrote about all this here

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/31357-From-Mycenean-(Q-P-change)-to-Homer-and-Koine

Makedonian Belong to NW Greek dialects,

NW Greek dialects are in area of proto Greek

Epirotes Mekedones Akanarnes etc were closer to Proto-Greek.

to understastand that I give you the sping/welt word

Attic and early koine Φρεαρ frear phrear
In Makedonian that f/ph shoulb be b as we have today in my mountain βρυα βρυασσα = phrear/frear = water spring
that passed in koine also as βρυση Bruse
and changed also in Byzantine Koine B->V
so today ended as Bruse but is pronounced as vrese vrisi

so the evolution still continues.



NOTICE

NW-GREEK Berenika
Attic Ferenike Pherenike
NW Greek Brua Bruassa
Attic Frear phrear

NW Greek is closer to proto-Greek
and before the Dorian descent and Hesiodos,

a remarkable also is the Aeolian π

The change of Proto-Greek to classical Attic Koine might be due to the pre-IE substranctum, the pelasgians
when NW proto-Greek enter Pelasgian and Mycenean world. meaning after Dorian descent

the mistake of Thomopoulos if you remember when we discuss about it,

Now prove and find why b^heh[SUB]3[/SUB]g turns to buke in Albanian
under which IE law.

 

[Archetype0ne]

@ Derite


I wrote about all this here

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/31357-From-Mycenean-(Q-P-change)-to-Homer-and-Koine

Makedonian Belong to NW Greek dialects,

NW Greek dialects are in area of proto Greek

Epirotes Mekedones Akanarnes etc were closer to Proto-Greek.

to understastand that I give you the sping/welt word

Attic and early koine Φρεαρ frear phrear
In Makedonian that f/ph shoulb be b as we have today in my mountain βρυα βρυασσα = phrear/frear = water spring
that passed in koine also as βρυση Bruse
and changed also in Byzantine Koine B->V
so today ended as Bruse but is pronounced as vrese vrisi

so the evolution still continues.



NOTICE

NW-GREEK Berenika
Attic Ferenike Pherenike
NW Greek Brua Bruassa
Attic Frear phrear

NW Greek is closer to proto-Greek
and before the Dorian descent and Hesiodos,

a remarkable also is the Aeolian π

The change of Proto-Greek to classical Attic Koine might be due to the pre-IE substranctum, the pelasgians
when NW proto-Greek enter Pelasgian and Mycenean world. meaning after Dorian descent

the mistake of Thomopoulos if you remember when we discuss about it,

Now prove and find why b^heh[SUB]3[/SUB]g turns to buke in Albanian
under which IE law.

When Leka was alive he was a filthy barbaric Macedonian, not following "the greek culture" but meddling with the Persians. Big Yikes. While he was alive, he was resented by the Argos population, google for yourself I am not your tutor. You know what... ask Lekas tutor himself... Aristotle what did he think about him. LMAO

But now... 2300 years later. Leka is Great... and he is greek... such shamelessness.

No wonder Socrates went this way rather than deal with your forefathers unprincipled BS:

(https://educateinspirechange.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/socrates.jpg)

 

[Archetype0ne]

................................


Well
Notice this
Mycenean World

Proto-Greek spoken

.................................


BTW

the time is not as you provide, (comment:HUMOR ME MATE HOW SO?)
Myceneans were already in Greece when Hettites enter minor Asia,
Myceneans are found from 2900 BC in Greece (COMMENT: Your principles are weak. The truth does not guide you in any sense. You state 2900BC for Mycenean Greeks, when in fact the very picture your provide states "1400-1100BC"/ Ku i ke 1500 vjet be shoq?)and generally we know they stabilize language and culture around 2000 BC



................................................
"








Btw, even the map your provided is misleading.... Your ancestors lost control of Athens proper, from 900BC onwards, geographically starting where Thebes ends and below. Since there was a political shift/split between Athens proper, and rest of Mycean world (Ill refer to this as Argos now on). Where Athens sided with the Dorians, and as such kept their privileges and titles following "The return of the Heraclidae".

Also, are you implying with that map that Crete was Mycean, *and somehow it makes it Greek(What is Greek 1300BC, even your antecesors named Hellens dont exist yet mate... Do you know who Hellen was? Your historians claim descent there you should know.* Cause I would have a bone to pick regarding that statement too. Yet... this thread is about Dardans of Dardania and Troy, so for the love of God stop going on tangents...

Edited for clarity **

 

[Lenab]

When Leka was alive he was a filthy barbaric Macedonian, not following "the greek culture" but meddling with the Persians. Big Yikes. While he was alive, he was resented by the Argos population, google for yourself I am not your tutor. You know what... ask Lekas tutor himself... Aristotle what did he think about him. LMAO

But now... 2300 years later. Leka is Great... and he is greek... such shamelessness.

No wonder Socrates went this way rather than deal with your forefathers unprincipled BS:

Meddling with Persians? No one with Macedonian blood whatever Macedonian is was meddling with Persians

 

[Lenab]

................................
Myceneans were already in Greece when Hettites enter minor Asia,

Yeah hence the name Greco ( early Minoan haplogroup H later Mycenaean ) Anatolian ( Hittite ) as if it's not obvious. Also please, Hittitie were in the early days indistinguishable from Pontian Greeks as in the ones from Asia Minor anyway.

This is why haplogroup H in the European sense came from the ancient Greeks or rather Mycenaean.

Both Mycenaean culture flourished in Crete and Cyprus

 

[Lenab]

http://dispatchesfromturtleisland.blogspot.com/2017/08/minoan-and-mycenaean-ancient-dna.html

[FONT=&quot]The [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Mycenaeans[/FONT][FONT=&quot], unsurprisingly for Indo-European migrant/conquerers of the late Bronze Age, have significant steppe ancestry, but somewhat surprisingly, have about 75%-80% ancestry from pre-Myceneaens of the region who tend to resemble the Minoans.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Mycenaean-Minoan-Anatolians are haplogroup J associated with these eastern groups [i.e. early Caucasian and Iranian farmers], rather than the ubiquitous G2 of the earlier farmer populations." There are two J2a1 Minoans (one is J2a1/mtDNA H, and the other one is J2a1d/mtDNA H13a1), one G2a2b2 Minoan (mtDNA U3b3), one J1a Anatolian (mtDNA H) and one J2a1 Mycenaean (mtDNA X2). Two other Mycenaeans are mtDNA X2 with no Y-DNA.


[/FONT]

 

[Sile]

Archetype
Plz Man
Anatolian is a Family of IE languages,

IS A FAMILY OF LANGUAGES
Luwian from Hettit distance
might be same as Dutch from Deutsch or Scands or Gothic
or as a S Slavic language from Polish or Czech or Slovak,
for example how much is Serbian or Croatian from Polish or Slovakian?
the max distance is S Slavic from Russian or Lithuanian
that is the distance among Luwian with Hettite
To Understand
Luwian is not hettite
BUT
Luwian is a daughter of Anatolian PIE
Same Hettite
we can say that both are a kind of Anatolian PIE dialect
before they evolute
Notice
today Dutch is not Deutsch neither Austrian
BUT THEY ALL ONCE SPRUNG FROM PROTO_GERMANIC LANGUAGES.
for you the link bellow
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatolian_languages
IT SAYS
''The Anatolian languages are an extinctfamily of Indo-European languages that were spoken in Asia Minor (ancient Anatolia), the best attested of them being the Hittite language.''
'how do you connect Albanian a vivid and spoken language with the extinct ones'
or do you believe that Albanian is connected with Hettite?
since you connect it with Luwian, and Luwian is same family with Hettite,
PART 2
ALBANIAN LANGUAGE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BRYGIAN GREEK AND CELTIC LANGUAGES.
UNDERSTAND THAT. IS a LANGUAGE OF ITS OWN.
PIE *'g
Greek g
Brygian g
Celtic g
Albanian ð, d
PIE *g^w
Brygian b
Greek b d
Albanian g, z
PIE *g^wh
Brygian g
Greek kh
Albanian g

scholars state
hittite connected with Hattic languages
.
Luwian connected to Hurrian languages
.
all anatolian languages are non-semetic
.
hittite died circa 1200BC
luwian died circa 600BC
.
hittite and Luwian began as separate languages , but towards the end of their existence, the hittites adopted many luwian "words"

 

[Aspar]

Meddling with Persians? No one with Macedonian blood whatever Macedonian is was meddling with Persians

You seem either like a very big ***** or like someone who has a lot of free time in his hands.
You don't have to be a history professor, but with just a little bit of research on the net, you will find that Alexander the Great initiated the marriage of thousands of his soldiers with Persian princesses.

 

[Archetype0ne]

Becoming King in Afghanistan and having a bunch of concubines, while singing praise to Zoroaster in foreign rituals certainly implies "meddling" with foreign culture. Cant blame those generals tbh... it must have been lit.




Oh... and Leka claimed to be Amon Ra at some point? Behold! A God! Certainly Greeks would have been enraged at such brash claims.

I will find the letter of Aristotle to Alexander regarding him forsaking Greek culture, and indulging in the east...



In the meanwhile the below exchange could prove of value. It was recorded in Arabic by the Arabs in Alexandria sometime ~900 ~1000 AD.

" The Secret of Secrets includes a purported exchange of letters between Aristotle and Alexander. According to Arabic manuscripts probably conveying text written before 987, Alexander wrote to Aristotle:

O my excellent preceptor and just minister, I inform you that I have found in the land of Persia men possessing sound judgement and powerful understanding, who are ambitious of bearing rule. Hence I have decided to put them all to death. What is your opinion in this matter? [1]
​

Aristotle responded:

It is no use putting to death the men you have conquered; for their land will, by the laws of nature, breed another generation which will be similar. The character of these men is determined by the nature of the air of their country and the waters they habitually drink. The best course for you is to accept them as they are, and to seek to accommodate them to your concepts by winning them over through kindness. [2]
"
​

​

According to the Secret of Secrets, Alexander followed Aristotle’s advice. The Persians hence became Alexander’s most loyal subjects. The Secret of Secrets credits Aristotle for Alexander’s famous conquests:

By following his {Aristotle’s} good advice and obeying his commands, Alexander achieved his famous conquests of cities and countries, and ruled supreme in the regions of the earth far and wide, Arabs as well as Persians coming under his sway; nor did he {Alexander} ever oppose him {Aristotle} in word or deed. [3]




​

Aristotle’s specific reason for Alexander accommodating the Persian elite draws upon Galenic-Hippocratic technical knowledge. In his treatise On Airs, Waters, and Places, Hippocrates described the importance of a place’s airs and waters in shaping the characters of persons. In the mid-ninth century, Hunayn ibn Ishaq translated Hippocrates’ treatise into Arabic. Hunayn also wrote a commentary on it. Hunayn’s nephew Hubaysh translated into Arabic Galen’s commentary on Hippocrates’ treatise.[5] Aristotle’s advice on the Persian elites was based upon Greek knowledge known in Arabic by the mid-ninth century. "

https://www.purplemotes.net/2013/10/13/aristotle-advice-alexander-persia/

[1] Kitab sirr al-asrar (The Book of the Secret of Secrets), from Arabic trans. Ali (1920) p. 177. In Latin translation Kitab sirr al-asrar was known as Secretum Secretorum or Secreta Secretorum. On dating the letters before 987, see Manzalaoui (1974) p. 158. The prologue of Kitab sirr al-asrar describes the work as Yahya ibn al-Batriq‘s translation from Greek into Syriac and then into Arabic. Al-Batriq worked from 796 to 806. However, the Arabic style does not appear to be that of al-Batriq. Id. p. 159. Id., pp. 162-6, 193, suggest that the letters originated as Hellenistic pseudo-Aristotelian epistles and were translated into Arabic during the Umayyad caliphate (661-750).
[2] Id. trans. Manzalaoui (1974) p. 195. Apparently less literal but similar is the translation of Ali (1920) p. 177.
[3] Id. trans. Ali (1920) pp. 176-7.
[5] Manzalaoui (1974) pp. 194-5, 215-6. Reference to Hippocrates’ On Airs, Waters, and Places in the late-ninth-century Tarikh of Ya’qilbi seems to have come from a translation other than Hunayn’s. Id. pp. 215-6. If Aristotle’s advice to Alexander was written earlier than Hunayn’s translation of On Airs, Waters, and Places (mid-ninth century), and Aristotle’s advice was not translated from a Greek source, then apparently On Airs, Waters, and Places was known in Arabic prior to Hunayn’s translation of it.

Note: regarding Secret of Secrets, since you have such charlatans like Osho pumping out similar books to their zombie evangelists:
Secret of Secrets: An interpretative translation by Shaykh Tosun Bayrak of Sirr al-Asrar by Hadrat Abd al-Qadir al-Jilani (1077-1166AD), considered by many to be one of the greatest saints of Islam and the eponymous founder of the Qadiriyya order. This book, appearing in English for the first time, contains the very essence of Sufism

 

[Johane Derite]

Here is the full quote:

"The equation (Macedonian) άβρούτες /(Greek) όΦρύες (Skt. bhru- Avestan. br{u)vat-, MIrish. bruad-) shows that the labial sound was the Macedonian reflex of Indo-European *bh.

The change of the Indo-European voiced aspirates (bh, dh, gh) to voiceless aspirates (Φ ,θ,χ) was one of the developments which were shared by all recognized Greek dialects and which differentiate Greek from other Indo-European languages.

If a putative Macedonian dialect of prehistoric Greek did not share it, then it would have become differentiated before any other dialect became equally aberrant and it seems unlikely that those who spoke it would thereafter have remained in sufficiently close linguistic contact with those who spoke the other dialects to remain intelligible to them and develop in common the subsequent innovations which are characteristic of Greek as a whole.

On the other hand, if the late prehistoric form of Macedonian had shared the change of voiced aspirates to voiceless it seems improbable that the resulting voiceless phonemes would subsequently have changed back to voiced phonemes generally in Macedonian by the fifth century B.C.The change puts Macedonian closer to Illyrian and Thracian in phonology than to Greek"

R. A. Crossland,
"The Language of the Macedonians",
Cambridge Ancient History III, 1
Pg 846

More similarities between Ancient Macedonian and Albanian:

Ancient Macedonian. "Plakoni" ("council of elders")

Albanian. "Plak" ("old man")
Albanian. "Plakë" ("old woman")
Albanian. "Plakë" (adj. "old" of persons)
Albanian. "Pleq" ("old people")
Albanian. "Pleqni" ("old folk, old age in general")
Albanian. "[me] Pleqnu" ("[to] resolve dispute, settle affairs between parties")
Albanian. "Pleqësi" ("council of village elders")


This is Orel's opinion on the etymology:

 

[Yetos]

To archetypeOne

Just look this,

The proto-Greek world

Nothing more,

 

[Yetos]

To Derite,

I do not care about your scholars,

I SAY
prove word Buke = bread in Albanian follows the IE laws for Albanian from PIE *b^heh[SUB]3[/SUB]eg
and is not a loan

Notice Slavic Pekara (bread maker) has the same root *b^heh[SUB]3[/SUB]eg with Brygian bekos
and English Baker has the same root *b^heh[SUB]3[/SUB]egbut it is Slavic Pekar and English Baker
How *b^heh[SUB]3[/SUB]eg should be in Albanian?
ALBANIZATION OF AN AREA MEANS A LOT OF LOANS FROM PREVIOUS LANGUAGE,
SO, CAN YOU DISTINGUISH THE PURE ALBANIAN FROM THE LOANS?


TODAY WE KNOW THAT COMPUTER IS ENGLISH WORD,
BUT

COMPUTER IS ENGLISH BUT A LOAN FROM LATIN COMPUTARE
IN GREEK IS SPELLED ΚΟΜΠΙΟΥΤΕΡ a Loan from English
IN ALBANIAN IS KOMPJUTER a loan from English

AFTER 3000 Years
CAN YOU DISTINGUISH THE ORIGINAL FROM THE LOAN?


Part 2

Greek language has
a proto-spoken era,

and with Mycenean

an Archaic Era
a Classical era
the Koine
the evolution of koine (Alexandrine, Bible's koine)
The Rum or Byzantine Koine
the Modern Neo-Greek

in modern Neo-Greek the loans % are so many
that easily a Neo-Greek speaker
may Believe that Turkish are Greek
that Italian are Greek
that Albanian are Greek
that Slavic are Greek
etc

my daughter is not eating πρωινο (morning food) any more
she is eating breakfast
she is not wearing Αθλητικα or πανινα (Athletic shoes and cloth/textile shoes)
she is wearing Star-akia (textile shoes known as All star converse)


BTW
Pelekas, Πελεκας-πε-λευκος in Proto Greek is the white, toponymes exists today in Makedonia
that pe- is lost in classiacal Greek remaining λευκος and Πωλιος Polios Poulios meaning, fade, white-blonde, pale
but was kept in
Πελε-κανος Pelican
Πελ-αργος stork.


Part 3

And I wonder
Why you and Archetype one have such emone, such pation to campare with Greek?
and for Example with English
proto-Greek pelekas Peleukos
Greek Polios
English Pale

what does that mean? that Greek and English were neighbours once?

 

[Johane Derite]

More similarities between Ancient Macedonian and Albanian:

Also this is quite interesting and important:

Especially when we consider the account of Rose Wilder Lane's travel through Albania in 1920, in which she documented the oral history of Albanian highlanders,
and in which an illiterate old man named the entire Argaed Dyanasty off from oral history alone (and talked about the Black Sea flooding 80 years before scientists presented it as a
hypothesis).


The interesting thing here is that the old man referred to the third king in the Argaed Dynasty (Tyrimmas) as "Trimi", 70 years before linguist Stuart E. Mann noted the connection:

Here is the full thread about Rose Wilder Lane's journey below:






LINK: https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...Capital-in-Albania?highlight=rose+wilder+lane

 

[Johane Derite]

Also important to note: Stuart E. Mann is not "our" scholar. He is a serious British scientist/linguist with 51 works in 202 publications in 8 languages.
His specializations were Albanian, Armenian, Czech, and Indo-European in general.


For example:

[h=2]Publications (selection)[/h]

• An Indo-European comparative dictionary. Hamburg 1987
• An Albanian historical grammar. Hamburg 1977
• Czech historical grammar. Hamburg 1977

 

[Yetos]

@ Derite

No comment,

Tyrimm-as

The ending is typical Makedonikon

perdik-as
Amynt-as
Tyrimm-as
etc

hmm
maybe Makedonians were Baltic ones
you see Balts have -as :cool-v:

Arlausk-as
Arvynt-as
Saroun-as
Raimond-as


hm
SO DERITE TELL US WHY?
THAT ENDING -as IS FOUND
IN MAKEDONIAN
IN THRACIAN,
IN BALTIC
WHY SHOULD BE ILLYRIAN accusative ?
Gush what an 'evidence' you provide us
Baltic -as might be *o turning to -a in Illyrian accusative !!!!!

Mycenean names
Αχιλλε-ας
Οδυσσε-ας
Νεστορ-ας
WERE MYCENEANS ILLYRIAN ACCUSATIVE TOO ???? etrified: etrified:


DERITE,
UNTIL NOW YOU TELL US NOTHING,



or