Do Hallstat Celts have some role in the formation of West Germanic ethnicities?

What I am thinking, as a supposition is that protoGermanic speakers or some Germanic speakers, mixed with the Hallstat Celts and from this mixing were born the West Germanic nations.
It would be interested to research if Austrian dialects of West Germanic and Bavarian dialects, are having any influences from FinoUgrian languages ,or not.
Bavarians are first mentioned in the mid 6th century, in the foothills north of the Alps, on both sides of the Danube river.
The Suevi and macromanni where first mentioned on the north side of the danube river in 100AD.
The Alans and Lombards came into the area of the alps before the bavarians where formed
 
what date do you mean by 2.4 ka
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Did not hannibal recruit very many gaulish/celtic people from NW -Italy , as he entered Italy from France.
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Did not the Boii , Semnones etc settle in Italy......is not the town of Bologna named after the celtic Boii people?
.

2.4 ka is 400 BC, about the time the Semnones settled in Italy, and also a Boii tribe if I remember well.
 
Your last para
The Romans conquered the alpine tribes/people after they conquered Gaul/France
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There where no Germanic people south of the Danube river until after the fall of the Roman empire.....so south of the Danube river in south Germany and the Alps was still Celtic, illyrian, raetic, helvetic , venetic etc
The bavarians, where the last of modern germany to become a germanic people ..................austrians are also of bavarian stock forming Austria in 998AD and speaking an austro-bavarian language

You are right. Just found this map :

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germains#/media/File:Pre_Migration_Age_Germanic.png
 
So a lot Celtic ethnicities were assimilated by the migrating Germanic speaking tribes, especially on the land where West Germanic languages are spoken now.
So a lot of Gauls/Celtic ethnicities had at least an important role in forming the West Germanic ethnicies.
It looks that in some areas of current speaking West Germanic areas, Gaulish/Celtic ethnicities gave more from the people DNA and lifestyle and culture than the migrating Germanic people gave. For example in Bavaria or in Tyrol.
I think Ladin speakers from Switzerland and Tyrol are actually some Celtic ethnicities, not Romans/Italics.
 
I certainly believe that Hallstatt Celtic had an influence on the West Germanics. Certainly in cultural sense!
According to Celtic language specialist Peter Schrijver the Frisians of the (pre-) Roman period spoke a kind of Celtic, related to Brittonic.
This disappeared when the Saxons and Nordics came to Friesland in the fourth and fifth century.

I see the Jastorf Culture as the culture that spread the Germanic culture. This North German culture is some kind of core culture for the Saxons.

By the way I don't believe that there is a coherent kind of Germanic people. It is just that the Romans used German as a label for people on the right side of the Rhine. But that was not intended to describe it as a kind of unity. Neither do Slavs or Celts.

In genetic sense the people right of the Rhine are pretty differentiated (certainly when we take also Scandinavia in account). With in the Western, North Sea bordering, Germanic part, the dominant Y-DNA is R1b U106 (and some other R1b variants). But the R1b U106 was in the West Germanic area already there before the label German was used. The first R1b U106 was in found a, Central European related, Tumulus culture (better said Sögel-Wohlde period), in Oostwoud (West-Frisia) about 1800 BC.
 
An interesting article from Washington Post suggests Hallstat Celts left a strong genetic ancestry in Bavaria and Austria:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-irish/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f44c7dd36ccc

Bavaria and West Austria people,as genetics seems more similar to some Old Kelts from Ireland, than SE English people:
imrs.php
 
Completely missed the point of the article.
Hello German mate,

I think are more points in this article.
I just used the article to suppose the common genetics between Ireland, more Keltic parts of Britain and most of Germany might be because of some protoCeltic people.
And those ProtoCeltic people should have been the ancestors of Hallstatt Celts.
 
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Schrijver's arguments seem pretty convincing, though the substrate influence might have been mediated by another language, for example Sami.

Do you have a link to his arguments? They're intriguing. Could it maybe mean that if Proto-Germanic was the IA language of the Nordic group and its Jastorf Culture offshoot (or at least a heavily influenced/Germanized heir), that non-IE substrate was still present only in the Scandinavian peninsula, whereas the continental part of that Germanic-speaking area was too far (and separated by an ocean) to be influenced by it? In that assumption of mine, East Germanic was originally "continental Proto-Germanic" before West Germanic split off from North Germanic (with which it might've formed a "Scandinavian Proto-Germanic" regional dialect) and expanded southward, partially replacing the early East Germanic dialects and pushing them eastward. (Just speculating here to try to make sense of a non-IE substrate that affected only West & North Germanic, but not East Germanic, since what we call Proto-Germanic, as any other proto-language, is just a simplified reconstruction of what was certainly a still incipient dialect continuum with regional variations).

main-qimg-c56561e5aee88f5c8a64e8023ec5b293
 
If I put the link from Washington Post article,with the genetic resemblance between most of Germany and Austria to Ireland and more Celtic parts of Britain, that does not means that I am supposing that character traits are somehow passed strongly by genetics.
I am just supposing that the link is maybe an evidence that Hallstat Celts from Austria and Germany were assimilated by Germanic speakers.
Maybe some things related to these Hallstatt Celts remained at the new formed ethnicities.
A fact that is obvious in South Germany and Austria and Switzerland and is different from Sweden and might be inherited from the assimilated Hallstatt Celts might be cow raising.
There is a lot of cow raising in Austria and Southern Germany and Switzerland while in Sweden there is not such a thing.
So this might be inherited from the Hallstatt Celts.

Another thing, that is also present at the Czech people, that might be inherited from the Hallstatt Celts is beer brewing.
Germany is famous for beer brewing, but Sweden which is also a very Germanic country,is not having such a tradition, of brewing beer.
Austria is also having a strong tradition related to the brewing of beer.
See that in Switzerland, because of Italic ethnicities influence, the emphasis is on the production of wine, not on the production of beer.
 
Celts before roman conquests were highly advance civilization distributed from the Greece to the Scotland. It's easier to discuss what part of Europe wasn't influenced by them.
Multi-genetic society is more adaptive and successful therefore belief celts were mono-genetic and distributed so widely is misleading I suppose.
 
Celts before roman conquests were highly advance civilization distributed from the Greece to the Scotland. It's easier to discuss what part of Europe wasn't influenced by them.
Multi-genetic society is more adaptive and successful therefore belief celts were mono-genetic and distributed so widely is misleading I suppose.
I kind of agree with your point of view that you have presented here.
 
Some new info:
In some Roman Empire sites, from Britain, pre-AngloSaxon invasion, was found some R1B-U106.
Some Hallstatt Celt bones is scoring highest similarity from today populations, 76% to Austrians and Bretons, from Brittany.
 
A note:
The Celts were described as making a lot of beer.

So, a thing quite important from German culture, having beer as traditional beverage is something inherited from the Hallstatt Celts, at today Germans.
https://books.google.ro/books?id=NR...=onepage&q=pliny the elder gauls beer&f=false
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2rkc47/historians_what_kind_of_alcohol_were_the_early/


In fact, it seems Germans of today are most Celtic nation of Europe while France did not retained almost anything, from the old Celtic culture of Celtic tribes living in France.
 
Glauburg was part of the Hallstatt Celts and Hallstatt came from a group of Urnfield people
Halstatt celts became as we know bavarians............austrians are bavarians also , forming austria in 998AD, they speak austro-bavarian language, some say what bavarians also used to speak.
Bavarians where the last of the modern Germans to become German, this was after the fall of the Roman empire
so, Halstatt culture was never germanic influence
 
Just some info, to confirm that West German nations formed from Germanics and Celtic tribes:
In Wurtemberg West, R1B-P312 clades are 45%, from the paternal lines.
R1B-S21 makes 18% of the paternal lines in Wurtemberg West.
More detailed:
R1B-U152 makes 21%, R1B-DF27 - 12 %, R1B-L21 6% and generic clades of R1B-P312 another 6%.
In South Baden, R1B-L21 makes even 15% of the paternal lines.

Think that Germany was actually the Urheimat of the Celts, Celts being allied to Germanic tribes from Germany and dwelling in the dense woods from Germany.
 
Just some info, to confirm that West German nations formed from Germanics and Celtic tribes:
In Wurtemberg West, R1B-P312 clades are 45%, from the paternal lines.
R1B-S21 makes 18% of the paternal lines in Wurtemberg West.
More detailed:
R1B-U152 makes 21%, R1B-DF27 - 12 %, R1B-L21 6% and generic clades of R1B-P312 another 6%.
In South Baden, R1B-L21 makes even 15% of the paternal lines.
Think that Germany was actually the Urheimat of the Celts, Celts being allied to Germanic tribes from Germany and dwelling in the dense woods from Germany.
did ancient germans have more R1b over I1
R1b-U152 looks like a pure gallic-celtic marker
 
Do you have a link to his arguments? They're intriguing. Could it maybe mean that if Proto-Germanic was the IA language of the Nordic group and its Jastorf Culture offshoot (or at least a heavily influenced/Germanized heir), that non-IE substrate was still present only in the Scandinavian peninsula, whereas the continental part of that Germanic-speaking area was too far (and separated by an ocean) to be influenced by it? In that assumption of mine, East Germanic was originally "continental Proto-Germanic" before West Germanic split off from North Germanic (with which it might've formed a "Scandinavian Proto-Germanic" regional dialect) and expanded southward, partially replacing the early East Germanic dialects and pushing them eastward. (Just speculating here to try to make sense of a non-IE substrate that affected only West & North Germanic, but not East Germanic, since what we call Proto-Germanic, as any other proto-language, is just a simplified reconstruction of what was certainly a still incipient dialect continuum with regional variations).

main-qimg-c56561e5aee88f5c8a64e8023ec5b293

this is a pseudo culture map\
orange = celts
purple = west baltic cairns culture

etc
etc

where you going with this ?
 

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