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Thread: Greek parliament approves Macedonia's new name

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

    Greek parliament approves Macedonia's new name



    A lengthy, stormy debate in Greece's 300-seat parliament concluded on Friday with a majority of 153 legislators voting in favour of a deal seeking to end the two neighbours' long-running dispute by renaming the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia as the Republic of North Macedonia. A total of 146 MPs voted against the deal and one abstained.

    Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras, who hammered out the deal with his Macedonian counterpart last year, hailed the ratification as a "historic day."
    "Today we write a new page for the Balkans. The hatred of nationalism, dispute and conflict will be replaced by friendship, peace and cooperation," Tsipras said.


    Macedonian Prime Minister Zoran Zaev sent his congratulations via Twitter: "Together with our peoples we reached a historic victory. Long live the Prespa Agreement! For eternal peace and progress of the Balkans and in Europe!"

    https://www.dw.com/en/greece-approve...nge/a-47227133

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/...060302464.html

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    So we have the county of
    North Macedonia
    who are to be known as Macedonians worldwide
    and who speak a recognized language called Macedonia
    .
    I wonder why the Greeks accepted this ?
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    3 out of 6 members found this post helpful.
    Congratulations to the both countries. Finally this problem seems to have been solved. This is very positive for the whole region because it means one less problem in this region that has always been considered as the gunpowder barrel of Europe.
    Now we hope for an agreement between Albania and Greece on unresolved issues, first of all regarding the Albanian minority that now lives in the Greek part of Epirus and in the Western part of Greek Macedonia, but especially the question of the Cham, Albanians natives of Epirus driven from their land after the end of WWII and many other issues.
    17 Dec.
    Paget to the Council.

    Now the Council's letters seem to imply (words quoted) that the King will keep no strangers save the Albanoys.

    Cales, 17 Dec. 1545. Signed.


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    I would to resolve your bug on website

    I would to resolve your bug on website. Please write!! It is good directory? rixterwanse

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    It is not the Greeks who accept this.

    It the minority of 22% that rules, plus those green pappers from Geoffrey.

    67% in Gallup said clear No and 10 % I do not know.

    THE DESICION IS ILLEGAL SINCE 180 Parliamentals 2/3 and has 153 51%,
    But In Greece from 1974 he did not organise a constitutional court/judge comittee
    So although against Constitution
    it passes as illegal until the Constitutioanl Judge be found,

    Yet it is not not a Referendum desicion,
    so it easily get backed,
    no matter the international foreign voices,

    In Greece we lived a velvet Dictorship these Days,
    where 22% rules the 78 %.

    The new era of Makedonian struggle just Begins now.

    NO TO RIVER CONNECTION FROM MAKEDONIA TO DANUVE


    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Well the majority in Macedonia didn't like northern Macedonia as name either,but is mostly parliament decision,which to me seem right,people here in the Balkans are blinded by nationalism anyway.

    The deal after all seem ok to both of the "offended" sides.
    And what is your solution Yetos,do you think that Greeks can block a country from Nato and EU membership for life because of some name issue,because you feel "offended"?
    I think that Nato decided that Macedonia as northern Macedonia soon will become a member.

    Don't want to say this but even before a year, prior to the referendum in Macedonia for name change and ratification by Greek government i knew is done deal already,that Macedonia will changed it's name to northern Macedonia.

    The Balkan man should learn for ones that we are nobody in the game of big and decide almost nothing and stop with ridiculous nationalism,move on and cooperate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milan.M View Post
    Well the majority in Macedonia didn't like northern Macedonia as name either,but is mostly parliament decision,which to me seem right,people here in the Balkans are blinded by nationalism anyway.

    The deal after all seem ok to both of the "offended" sides.
    And what is your solution Yetos,do you think that Greeks can block a country from Nato and EU membership for life because of some name issue,because you feel "offended"?
    I think that Nato decided that Macedonia as northern Macedonia soon will become a member.

    Don't want to say this but even before a year, prior to the referendum in Macedonia for name change and ratification by Greek government i knew is done deal already,that Macedonia will changed it's name to northern Macedonia.

    The Balkan man should learn for ones that we are nobody in the game of big and decide almost nothing and stop with ridiculous nationalism,move on and cooperate.
    To be honest, I can not speak for most of the country. But even as an ethnic Albanian I understand what a sacrifice it is in the region, especially when it comes to pride. Knowing fully well how absurdly history has been taught in our schools.

    But I think the main priority of people, and I mean collectively, at this point, is improving the level of civilization and interconnection of the area to the rest of the world. And I would trust the EU more than anyone as an actor in that regard.

    For one, I say kudos to both governments, and I hope integration does not wait till next century.

    Yet... corruption... above all, at a moral level is rampant in Macedonia. The Albanian party has been in power for 18 years on the back of nationalism. Yet without ever having any coherent platforms, and with completely unqualified hood rats at the helm. Cynicism, you can smell in the air.

    Rotten to the core. Thank God its just the bureaucrats and the lawmakers....

    As Jesus said "Love thy neighbor".
    “Man cannot live without a permanent trust in something indestructible in himself, and at the same time that indestructible something as well as his trust in it may remain permanently concealed from him.”

    Franz Kafka

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    this is the accepted geographical boundary of Macedonia
    both fit inside
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedo..._Macedonia.png
    .
    .
    actually with the acceptance of the name ..north Macedonia, ....................greek macedonia , the province should be renamed south macedonia, to avoid confusion ...like as an example
    Tyrol represents all 3 regions of tyrol
    even though north-tyrol and east-tyrol are in austria and south-tyrol is in italy
    .
    Less confusing if Macedonia is represented as the geographical region as per the link I attached

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    this is the accepted geographical boundary of Macedonia
    both fit inside
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedo..._Macedonia.png
    I agree, people who against is radicals

    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    actually with the acceptance of the name ..north Macedonia, ....................greek macedonia , the province should be renamed south macedonia, to avoid confusion ...like as an example
    Tyrol represents all 3 regions of tyrol
    even though north-tyrol and east-tyrol are in austria and south-tyrol is in italy
    .
    Less confusing if Macedonia is represented as the geographical region as per the link I attached
    I don't know. Because Macedonia division is not like Thrace(Even Greece use name just Thrace, but only have East Thrace). Main core is in Greece, this is reality like how North Macedonia is part of Macedonia. Changing name of core as South Macedonia like it is just a part of it, I realy don't know. I guess, I am not supporting.

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    SYRIZA member of Parliament explains how half of Macedonia became Greek

    From the article:
    Macedonia is not one and Greek. There are several Macedonias. The other Macedonia is defined with the Bucharest treaty which bears our, Greek signature. When we hear the chant “Macedonia is one and it is Greek” it is seen as irredentism, as disrespect for the international treaties by our country. Maybe it doesn’t sound too good but it is the truth. Greek Macedonia is Greek, and let me clarify, it was MADE Greek, because until 1912/1913 and 1921/1922, when the refugees came, there was no Greek majority in Macedonia – only in some regions in teh south. So it was made Greek by a population exchange and through all the difficult events we and the other peoples from the region went through. So who are we kidding when we say “Macedonia is one and it is Greek?” Only ourselves, Filis said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    this is the accepted geographical boundary of Macedonia
    both fit inside
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedo..._Macedonia.png
    .
    .
    actually with the acceptance of the name ..north Macedonia, ....................greek macedonia , the province should be renamed south macedonia, to avoid confusion ...like as an example
    Tyrol represents all 3 regions of tyrol
    even though north-tyrol and east-tyrol are in austria and south-tyrol is in italy
    .
    Less confusing if Macedonia is represented as the geographical region as per the link I attached
    In my humble opinion, borders in the 21st century are more cumbersome than anything. As long as we work together through the UN and the EU, name your country unicorn for all it should matter. Rhetoric here is more important than anything. And trade more important even than rhetoric. Nations and people that do not have trade relations, seldom get along. Mutual interest is a good mechanism to stop the greater evil. Germany-France have proved this.

    Greece will invest 10BLN in Macedonia, according to a lawyer acquaintance of mine. Since I got wind of that rumor, I was sure the name would get resolved.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I_casualties

    If the trend sticks true. More people die in war from starvation than from direct conflict. Territorial claims are for warmongers only. Drinking the blood of innocent people.

    Just based on the above points, I fully support your Tyrol model for Macedonia name. Then no one can have any territorial claim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milan.M View Post
    Well the majority in Macedonia didn't like northern Macedonia as name either,but is mostly parliament decision,which to me seem right,people here in the Balkans are blinded by nationalism anyway.

    The deal after all seem ok to both of the "offended" sides.
    And what is your solution Yetos,do you think that Greeks can block a country from Nato and EU membership for life because of some name issue,because you feel "offended"?
    I think that Nato decided that Macedonia as northern Macedonia soon will become a member.

    Don't want to say this but even before a year, prior to the referendum in Macedonia for name change and ratification by Greek government i knew is done deal already,that Macedonia will changed it's name to northern Macedonia.

    The Balkan man should learn for ones that we are nobody in the game of big and decide almost nothing and stop with ridiculous nationalism,move on and cooperate.
    MILAN M

    man plz,

    G Pyatt was seen at Promahon boarders 24 hours to enter Fyrom before Fyrom Parliament votes fro the treaty,
    3 cars,
    WHAT ON HELL WAS DOING THE US AMBASSADOR IN GREECE AT SKOPJIE PARLIAMENT THE TIME OF THE VOTE?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    MILAN M

    man plz,

    G Pyatt was seen at Promahon boarders 24 hours to enter Fyrom before Fyrom Parliament votes fro the treaty,
    3 cars,
    WHAT ON HELL WAS DOING THE US AMBASSADOR IN GREECE AT SKOPJIE PARLIAMENT THE TIME OF THE VOTE?
    If it was done with some US interference they did it good.

    And if you think that i care for the "foreign influence" nationalists seem to fight,but at the same time saying they are our allies.
    I mean they are crazy.

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    yes the most rediculous proposal

    for 30 years not a single shot or bullet.
    for 30 years they come for holidays, millions of them
    and we go there for tourism and shoping and casinos

    and sudenly Tsipras and Zaev made peace!!!

    wow, they reinvent America!!!
    No they re-invent peace,

    just Stupid

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Man I would rather have a German or a Chinese career bureaucrat over my head than Alia or Ilia ____ them both. Truth above all else, ____ the state of politics (more like tribal criminal alliances than anything else). Tbh I love more(honest to god), my Slavo-Macednonian neighbor than the imbecile at the helm of my country for 20 years. Who still claims his biggest achievement in 20 years, is recognizing Albanian as a "minority language in Macedonia"(with at least 25% of the population speaking it, have you, I am being generous with 25% take my word for it). Meanwhile anyone from Albanian to Macedonian in "North Macedonia", to Vallah to "whatever their heart wants" is fleeing for Germany, with their whole seed and any resemblance of what they have of worth.

    These ______ have privatized peoples futures, asking for $5k up front for any Job no matter if you finished at Harvard or Columbia. Having had the chance to work at a ministry with plenty of tenders, the only reason I told the minster to "literally" ____ off was due to love for my own people. Regardless of language, or blood (again, take my word for it, honest to god) - ____ the current corruption in this "shithole". No country can have pride with cowards/imbeciles at the helm.
    F _____ N A T I O N A L I S M, F _____ U N M E R I T O C R A C Y
    Last edited by Archetype0ne; 03-02-19 at 20:38.

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    @ ArchetypeOne

    man G. Pyatt is an idiot,

    he mess up Ukraine and Crimaia
    and now came to Balkans,

    WHAT HE ACHIEVED AT BALKANS???

    TO FORCE MAKEDONIANS AND SLAVOMAKEDONIANS IN A UNWANTED TREATY, by both
    HE STARTED A FIRE, When there was none,

    30 years now a single shot, from late 1980's
    cooperation, investements, tourism from both sides,
    millions Slavomakedonian come to Greece every year at summer,
    and millions of Greeks visit Fyrom every winter,

    There was peace, there was cooperation,
    and only demonstrations,


    FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT UNDERSTAND

    PAPANDREOU and Greece ALLREADY RECOGN THEM AS MAKEDONIA AT 80'sFederal South-SLAVIC republic of MAKEDONIA,

    But what happened,
    Pyatt the loser of Crimaia, as an echidna used the leftists,
    to START A NEW FIRE IN BALKANS.

    Pisoderi Prespes is place that all Greeks want to forget,
    no matter Left or Right wing.
    It was the last theatre of Civil War, and area from where the kidnapped children moved to Communistic world,.
    BY CHOOSING PISODERI, IT IS LIKE SAYING, REVENGE OF 3rd COMMUNISTIC INTERNATIONAL AND Y DIMITROV's BLEND TREATY.

    Pyatt as an idiot was present at Skopjie parliament, when they vote.
    That means forced vote, psycological pressure, or even more life threat

    Tsipras raise the hand, but bend the head,
    cause he knows,
    the stupidity of Kotzias, an ex-communist who took revenge for civil war lost of Communists with Pisoderi treaty.

    We kick our king at 1974, cause he sworn and legalize the Junda, instead of protect the constitution.
    Time to kick the 153 parliamentals who obey the foreign voice, and Divide the peopes, and the nation,
    bringing a new era of civil war in Greece,

    today more demonstrations are coming,


    you want to know what happens in Greece every night?
    even after the pass by parliament,
    THAT IS AFTER THE OK FROM GREEK PARLIAMENT.

    <strong>



    THAT TREATY IS ILLEGAL BY GREEK CONSTITUTIONAL LAWS,
    IT SHOULD BE VOTED BY 2/3 of Parliaments meaning 180 votes,
    It took only 153 expressing the 22% of people,
    BUT SINCE THERE IS NO CONSTITUTIONAL JUDGE FROM 1974 TO REJECT THE PARLIAMENTAL DESICION AS ANTI_CONSTITUTIONAL
    IT PASSES WITH A KIND OF MODERN DICTATORSHIP,

    We Live phenomena from 1945 and 1967
    my nephew is still at prison,
    Although the Greek law says that underaged, must not kept there until the investigation,

    So what Pyatt achieved, with his puppets the 'leftists' (i doupt if they are)
    is to start a new fire, and open old closed wounds,

    THAT TREATY SHALL NOT PASS
    IS ILLEGAL AS CONSERN GREEK CONSTITUTION
    IS NOT ACCEPTED BY AT LEAST 70% OF GREEKS

    if you see riots and murderings and 'assasinations' in Greece
    do not be surprised.
    the new Makedonian struggle just started,
    reopen by Tsipras and Pyatt,

    Zaev is a stupid puppet,
    and when he realize what he did to his own people, it would be to late.

    LOOK AT UKRAINE AND CRIMAIA RESULTS.


    what you do not understand?
    for 30 years SlavoMakedonians were welcomed to Greece,
    and oposite
    (except criminals and drug dealers)
    NOW THAT IS UNDER A DANGER.


    And remember media are control today in Greece,
    Before Pappas, we had democratic channels and news,
    today they bomb us with USA and Leftish propaganda,
    no media shows what happened in small makedonian towns,
    they show only how ggod is the illegal treaty.
    Mega channel is closed.

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    for those who do not understand

    Today at 18 EET (+2 Greenwich meridian)
    watch the news,

    the strugle still continues

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    And for those who believe it will work

    DO YOU KNOW THAT ALL SCHOOL BOOKS OF FYROM WILL CHANGE,
    AND WILL BE UNDER UNDER SUPERVISION OF GREEK and International HISTORIANS?

    DO YOU KNOW THAT PRODUCTS WILL HAVE THE SAME MARK.
    MACEDONIAN WINE EITHER FROM GREECE EITHER FROM SKOPJIE?

    It is a betrayal for both Nations,

    at late 90's it was decided
    at 1993 enter UN as federal South-SLAVIC republic of MAKEDONIA (remember krusevo and Illidan)
    why and for reason should be changed as today?

    their language is recogn at UN from 1977 as Makedonian language part of Slavic languages,
    while the Term Makedonian dialect
    the same DAY is refered as part of Ancient Greek dialects


    WHY PYATT NEEDED TO SCRATCH THIS WOUND TO THIS DEGREE?

    WHY HIS PUPPETS TSIPRAS AND ZAEV ACCEPT IT WHITOUT CORRECT AND CLEAR REFERENDUMS?

    ARE BALKANS GOING TO BE THE NEW SYRRIA?
    is that the dream of USA ambassador G Pyatt?
    to sell guns in Ukraine and Balkans?
    and uses his puppets to do so?


    Remember today at Afrin we have
    VIOLATION OF LAUSSANE TREATY,
    BUT NOBODY CARES,


  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    for those who do not understand

    Today at 18 EET (+2 Greenwich meridian)
    watch the news,

    the strugle still continues
    What is the strugle for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milan.M View Post
    What is the strugle for?
    sorry struggle is the correct

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    this is the accepted geographical boundary of Macedonia
    both fit inside
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedo..._Macedonia.png
    .
    .
    actually with the acceptance of the name ..north Macedonia, ....................greek macedonia , the province should be renamed south macedonia, to avoid confusion ...like as an example
    Tyrol represents all 3 regions of tyrol
    even though north-tyrol and east-tyrol are in austria and south-tyrol is in italy
    .
    Less confusing if Macedonia is represented as the geographical region as per the link I attached
    The FYR of Macedonia (to become North Macedonia) is the North Macedonian region depicted by a German historian in the 19th century, during the late Ottoman Empire. This geographical concept stuck for the last few centuries. However, it doesn't correspond to the historical region of (classical) Macedonia. This is almost in its entirety in Northern Greece.

    That aside, I was supporting this agreement, not because it is historically accurate, but rather because I think that it will be good for the relations of both nations on the long term. And by that, I mean in a span of decades.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    sorry struggle is the correct
    Ok you struggle for what?

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dianatomia View Post
    The FYR of Macedonia (to become North Macedonia) is the North Macedonian region depicted by a German historian in the 19th century, during the late Ottoman Empire. This geographical concept stuck for the last few centuries. However, it doesn't correspond to the historical region of (classical) Macedonia. This is almost in its entirety in Northern Greece.

    That aside, I was supporting this agreement, not because it is historically accurate, but rather because I think that it will be good for the relations of both nations on the long term. And by that, I mean in a span of decades.
    What "historical" Macedonia has to do with region Macedonia? with Republic of Macedonia (North Macedonia) or with Roman Macedonia,those are 3 differents things.
    This people "Macedonians" took a name for a nation from the region they live,and no one can dictate them how to call themselves.
    If we look at history all the way back in time we can even find no "Macedonia" so?
    Why all the times is the obsession with ancient Macedonia.The Greeks can have it who cares about ancient Macedonia,even thought that's also entirely different topic.
    Even Greek Macedonia was also Ottoman empire prior becoming Greek with quite mixed ethnicities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milan.M View Post
    What "historical" Macedonia has to do with region Macedonia? with Republic of Macedonia (North Macedonia) or with Roman Macedonia,those are 3 differents things.

    If we look at history all the way back in time we can even find no "Macedonia" so?
    Why all the times is the obsession with ancient Macedonia.The Greeks can have it who cares about ancient Macedonia,even thought that's also entirely different topic.
    Μilan

    for that




    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Macedonia


    and I do not how is in Serbia, France Italy Spain,

    But in Greece is,
    I ama Cretan so I am Greek,
    I am Epirotes, so I am Greek,
    I am Makedonian, so I am Greek,
    the treaty steals my nativity,
    for therefor for Makedonians there wiil not be
    I am Makedonian, so I am Greek,

    Besides, when the new school books given to Fyrom schools,
    we will see what happens,
    must be in one year since the comittee starts work,
    meaning from 1 January 2020,
    There you see reactions at Skopjie.

    simply,Niemetz and Pyatt opened the bag of Aeolos, and scratch deep the wound,
    so they failed.

    Anyway, we are here,
    hope both live the next 5 years,
    to see the results.

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