Politics Greek parliament approves Macedonia's new name

this is the accepted geographical boundary of Macedonia
both fit inside
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_(region)#/media/File:Greater_Macedonia.png
.
.
actually with the acceptance of the name ..north Macedonia, ....................greek macedonia , the province should be renamed south macedonia, to avoid confusion ...like as an example
Tyrol represents all 3 regions of tyrol
even though north-tyrol and east-tyrol are in austria and south-tyrol is in italy
.
Less confusing if Macedonia is represented as the geographical region as per the link I attached

The FYR of Macedonia (to become North Macedonia) is the North Macedonian region depicted by a German historian in the 19th century, during the late Ottoman Empire. This geographical concept stuck for the last few centuries. However, it doesn't correspond to the historical region of (classical) Macedonia. This is almost in its entirety in Northern Greece.

That aside, I was supporting this agreement, not because it is historically accurate, but rather because I think that it will be good for the relations of both nations on the long term. And by that, I mean in a span of decades.
 
The FYR of Macedonia (to become North Macedonia) is the North Macedonian region depicted by a German historian in the 19th century, during the late Ottoman Empire. This geographical concept stuck for the last few centuries. However, it doesn't correspond to the historical region of (classical) Macedonia. This is almost in its entirety in Northern Greece.

That aside, I was supporting this agreement, not because it is historically accurate, but rather because I think that it will be good for the relations of both nations on the long term. And by that, I mean in a span of decades.
What "historical" Macedonia has to do with region Macedonia? with Republic of Macedonia (North Macedonia) or with Roman Macedonia,those are 3 differents things.
This people "Macedonians" took a name for a nation from the region they live,and no one can dictate them how to call themselves.
If we look at history all the way back in time we can even find no "Macedonia" so?
Why all the times is the obsession with ancient Macedonia.The Greeks can have it who cares about ancient Macedonia,even thought that's also entirely different topic.
Even Greek Macedonia was also Ottoman empire prior becoming Greek with quite mixed ethnicities.
 
What "historical" Macedonia has to do with region Macedonia? with Republic of Macedonia (North Macedonia) or with Roman Macedonia,those are 3 differents things.

If we look at history all the way back in time we can even find no "Macedonia" so?
Why all the times is the obsession with ancient Macedonia.The Greeks can have it who cares about ancient Macedonia,even thought that's also entirely different topic.

Μilan

for that
ne.JPG




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Macedonia


and I do not how is in Serbia, France Italy Spain,

But in Greece is,
I ama Cretan so I am Greek,
I am Epirotes, so I am Greek,
I am Makedonian, so I am Greek,
the treaty steals my nativity,
for therefor for Makedonians there wiil not be
I am Makedonian, so I am Greek,

Besides, when the new school books given to Fyrom schools,
we will see what happens,
must be in one year since the comittee starts work,
meaning from 1 January 2020,
There you see reactions at Skopjie.

simply,Niemetz and Pyatt opened the bag of Aeolos, and scratch deep the wound,
so they failed.

Anyway, we are here,
hope both live the next 5 years,
to see the results.
 
Μilan

for that
ne.JPG
Post some more nationalists,do you want to post you map or something from Greek nationalists? I mean this bickering is what you want instead of dialogue,you have no right to block any country and invent names for it.
Northern Macedonia was accepted from both sides and get over it.
 
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Post some more nationalists,do you want to post you map or something from Greek nationalists? I mean this bickering is what you want instead of dialogue,get over it,you have no right to block any country and invent names for it.
Northern Macedonia was accepted from both sides and get over it.

Milan,

Greece and UN recogn them at 1993 officially as Slavic Makedonia, Fyrom means that
Why they did not accept it?

cause they want only them to be Makedonians,
for them I am Greek, not a Makedonian,

understand that,
Is not only a gegraphical term

THE biggest mistake of the treaty is article 2
ethnicity nationality nativity Macedonian but citizen of North Makedonia,
while Makedonians get
ethnicity nationality nativity Greek, citizen of Greece,

NOTICE the trap on article 2,

from 1987 and 1993 we (greece) gave them co-existance, Makedonia and Slavic Makedonia (FYroM),
today USA force us to lost co-existance,
and Zaev cheers like a child,
But when school books enter Skopjie schools,
and they learn that they are Slavs, and they had nothing to do with Makedonia,
Zaev will be hanged,

IT IS a BIASED, a wrape of time treaty,

LOOK NOW.
in 1,5 year will enter NATO
But they will not, change the constitution
and what Happens if Ivanoff or another Vmro gains the presidential elections

NOTICE
THE PAPPER FROM SKOPJIE PARLIAMENT ACCEPTANCE CAME TO GREECE NOT WITH IVANOV's SIGN,
AND NOT BY THE FYROM PRESIDENTIAL CORRESPONDANCE,

because Greece has election from March to May
it was pushed to be signed in 4 Days time

Do you understand now?

it is a biased treaty, not even discussed far,
and will collapse after Fyrom enters NATO,
while Greece will be sinking in a civil war.

Gligorov was ready to accept at 1993 the term Slavic Makedonia,
at UN he accept at the Halls,
What change it? who bombed him?
and why stay as Fyrom?
why Fyrom is for 25 outside NATO and EU,
while had all tyhe demands from 1993,
except the acceptance of Slavic Makedonia, or whatever,

Today the treaty brings the mess,
and surely helps only the Turks who violate Laussane treaty at Afrin,
cause even if Albanians of Tettovo demand indepence next year,
they will be also partially losers.

Besides there is also the chance that Bulgaria put a Veto, asking them to quit about the Pirin theory,
 
That is right now at Thessaloniki,

Told you that treaty first will sink Greece to Division
and next year Skopjie, when they change history.

The only one that might get lucjy are the Tettovo Albanians, which may leave 'Severna'
and go by their own.

 
right now Milan,

[video]https://www.protothema.gr/politics/article/859219/thessaloniki-diamarturies-kai-himika-prin-tin-afixi-paulopoulou/?utm_source=rss[/video]
 
right now Thessaloniki

[video=youtube;GZSOMfs2j1I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=GZSOMfs2j1I[/video]


TV shows nothing,

We live the CENSORED ERA OF INFORMATION AND NEWS,
GREEK BROADCASTING IS UNDER DICTATORSHIP,
WE LEARN NEWS FROM INTERNET AND OTHER APLICATIONS

In every small city of Makedonia there are at least 1000 armed police men
Demonstrations are over central cities in Makedonia.
police forces have to sleep for days,
they brought forces from all over Greece.
the army is on orange alert, waiting to turn to RED.

THAT IS YOU CHOICE ALEXIS THE TRAITOR,
PEOPLE SEE, PEOPLE KNOWS,
GO HOME WITH GEOFREEY.
 
The FYR of Macedonia (to become North Macedonia) is the North Macedonian region depicted by a German historian in the 19th century, during the late Ottoman Empire. This geographical concept stuck for the last few centuries. However, it doesn't correspond to the historical region of (classical) Macedonia. This is almost in its entirety in Northern Greece.

That aside, I was supporting this agreement, not because it is historically accurate, but rather because I think that it will be good for the relations of both nations on the long term. And by that, I mean in a span of decades.

It's right that FYROM barely has territory of the ancient Kingdom of Macedon, but since the Roman conquest, even before the Roman Empire, the name Macedonia started to applied to a broader area that encompassed present-day FYROM. And this broader use of the term caught on and was kept in use in the later centuries, too. It was no modern invention, and I don't see why our historical evaluation of this situation should leap right from 168 B.C. (Roman conquest) to the 20th century. Of course that does not warrant anyone trying to portray its people as descending from another people and claiming its achievements (even though, to be fair, I'm pretty sure that FYROM people must have some relevannt ancestry from the ancient inhabitants of Roman Era Macedonia, they aren't Slovenes, they are much more mixed with pre-Slavic Balkanites as Bulgarians also are). But, honestly, I think some day people will just have to accept that many modern toponyms derive from ancient kingdoms and ethnicities, but they do not necessarily remain "historically accurate" (with the same borders of its long gone origins) and in many occasions those toponyms simply get a life of their own and stop being directly and exclusively associated with that ancient ethnicity or state (and their descendants) as peoples change, mix, migrate, get acculturated by others and so on. Examples abound: Britain, Istria, Dalmatia, Galicia, Syria, France, Scotland, and so on. It's almost inevitable, especially when the terms has already been in use as a geographical term and not an ethnonym for many centuries.
 
Milan,

Greece and UN recogn them at 1993 officially as Slavic Makedonia, Fyrom means that
Why they did not accept it?

FYROM means Former Yugoslavian Republic of Macedonia. Do you honestly think a country would accept to be forever called by what it ceased to be (former Yugoslavian republic)? That was of course just a temporary solution. Slavic Macedonia also would always be problematic in a country that is not overwhelmingly Slavic, it just has a Slavic majority.

Vardar-Macedonia or Upper/North Macedonia would be fine if their citizens were to be called Vardar-Macedonian and North Macedonian, don't you think? Whether people wish to accept it or not, the name Macedonia was indeed used a as geographical term for many centuries since the Roman Empire (it subsumed Paeonia into it among other areas, regardless of the ethnicity of the people living in the territory they named Macedonia), and Macedonia itself, with is fluctuating borders, was multiethnic for a long time, not a homogeneous nation-state.
 
To tacke all the misunderstandings between ancient Macedonia and Northern Macedonia according to the deal signed


  • "The terms 'Macedonia' and 'Macedonian' refer to a different historical context and cultural heritage" - and that one is Southern Slavic and not related to ancient Greece.
So clear distinction is made,please read the deal first.


Other things from the deal;


  • On the need to refrain from irredentism and revisionism in any form" - seen as dealing with Greek fears that the Macedonians might have designs on their territory
  • To tackle state propaganda and incitement and agree to set up an expert panel to consider an objective interpretation of history
  • The new Republic of North Macedonia will "review the status" of any public buildings or monuments that refer to ancient Greek history
 
FYROM means Former Yugoslavian Republic of Macedonia. Do you honestly think a country would accept to be forever called by what it ceased to be (former Yugoslavian republic)? That was of course just a temporary solution. Slavic Macedonia also would always be problematic in a country that is not overwhelmingly Slavic, it just has a Slavic majority.

Vardar-Macedonia or Upper/North Macedonia would be fine if their citizens were to be called Vardar-Macedonian and North Macedonian, don't you think? Whether people wish to accept it or not, the name Macedonia was indeed used a as geographical term for many centuries since the Roman Empire (it subsumed Paeonia into it among other areas, regardless of the ethnicity of the people living in the territory they named Macedonia), and Macedonia itself, with is fluctuating borders, was multiethnic for a long time, not a homogeneous nation-state.

YugoSlav means South Slavic
delete former, delete south

Slavic republic of Makedonia,
 
To tacke all the misunderstandings between ancient Macedonia and Northern Macedonia according to the deal signed


  • "The terms 'Macedonia' and 'Macedonian' refer to a different historical context and cultural heritage" - and that one is Southern Slavic and not related to ancient Greece.
So clear distinction is made,please read the deal first.


Other things from the deal;


  • On the need to refrain from irredentism and revisionism in any form" - seen as dealing with Greek fears that the Macedonians might have designs on their territory
  • To tackle state propaganda and incitement and agree to set up an expert panel to consider an objective interpretation of history
  • The new Republic of North Macedonia will "review the status" of any public buildings or monuments that refer to ancient Greek history


Read paragraphos #2

nationality nativity, not of Severna Macedonia, but of Makedonia
only citizenship is of North Macedonia,
so they are native, I am foreigner? an intruder?


All Makedonian and Slavomakedonia products will carry equal the mark Makedonian


read

rimatiki_diakoinwsi3.jpg


rimatiki_diakoinwsi2.jpg




No constitutional name change,
Gain nativity nationality,

meaning that the treaty is already violated,
and as Makedonian I lose the nativity.

That is a Betrayal offcourse from my people,
but as long as we exist WE WILL NOT FORGET

neither we will forget the Geoffrey the loser bastard


AND AT THE END IT HAS NOT THE SIGNATURE OF IVANOV,
SO IT IS NOT SECURE AND OFFICIAL,
AS THE GREEK ONE DOES HAVE THE 2/3 of PERLIAMENT
MAKING IT ILLEGAL AND ANTI_CONSTITUTIONAL DESICION<

IT IS BIASED MOVE.
THAT WILL DIVIDE NATIONS
SAME AS IN UKRAINE

the only who will gain are the far deep sterile nationalists, the ones closer the Nazism
 
It's right that FYROM barely has territory of the ancient Kingdom of Macedon, but since the Roman conquest, even before the Roman Empire, the name Macedonia started to applied to a broader area that encompassed present-day FYROM. And this broader use of the term caught on and was kept in use in the later centuries, too. It was no modern invention, and I don't see why our historical evaluation of this situation should leap right from 168 B.C. (Roman conquest) to the 20th century. Of course that does not warrant anyone trying to portray its people as descending from another people and claiming its achievements (even though, to be fair, I'm pretty sure that FYROM people must have some relevannt ancestry from the ancient inhabitants of Roman Era Macedonia, they aren't Slovenes, they are much more mixed with pre-Slavic Balkanites as Bulgarians also are). But, honestly, I think some day people will just have to accept that many modern toponyms derive from ancient kingdoms and ethnicities, but they do not necessarily remain "historically accurate" (with the same borders of its long gone origins) and in many occasions those toponyms simply get a life of their own and stop being directly and exclusively associated with that ancient ethnicity or state (and their descendants) as peoples change, mix, migrate, get acculturated by others and so on. Examples abound: Britain, Istria, Dalmatia, Galicia, Syria, France, Scotland, and so on. It's almost inevitable, especially when the terms has already been in use as a geographical term and not an ethnonym for many centuries.
Rome took albania from Macedonia during the hannibal wars as macedonia ( an ally of carthage ) was supplying hannibal with some troops and supplies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_Wars#/media/File:Macedonia_and_the_Aegean_World_c.200.png
Macedonia even supplied troops for hannibal in the battle of Zama
.
Slovenes Had not entered the balkans at the time of the roman empire, what do you mean by slovenes?
 
YugoSlav means South Slavic
delete former, delete south

Slavic republic of Makedonia,

what about the non-slavs which where living there before the slavs arrived ...............the slavs did not arrive to empty lands
 
what about the non-slavs which where living there before the slavs arrived ...............the slavs did not arrive to empty lands

you mean Greeks Turks Aromainians and Albanians?

then let them name it Slavo-Albanian republic,

What aboout name it as Paeonia?
or Better, how do you think name it Austalia, or (for your nerves) Italy,

simply the choose of the name Makedonia,
was a desicion of Krusevo Aromians (Ilidan), at late 1800's
cause they were not Serbs, not Bulgarians, not Greeks not Albanians,
But become a tool in the hands of South Slavic nations,
specially the era of Communism,

Μυριβηλης is clear about that,

Μυριβηλης writes

''these people although strangely they understand Boulgar and Srrp and they know some Grrc
seems to hate Bulgars, cause they took their children to war,
seems not to love Srrp cause they treat them as Bulgarians.
they seem to have a sympathy to us, only beacuase we are the 'children of Patrik' (Nova Roma Patriarch)
they only want to Be Makedon Orthodox,\\

Later after WW1 and especially Communism,
the idea of Aromanians and rest of Krusevo Become a unification among Slavs,
the idea was helped for was stoping Serb and Bulgarian conflicts in area,
At the end the Greek civil war and the Communistic International made Blend treaty at 1947,
which was the offcial baptise of Slavs as Makedonians,

Today the treaty of Prespes sucks,
and is biased, and rejected by both.
as Makedonians of today, we want to respect their country,
and surely everybody knows that major inner state problem than foreign,
millions come, millions go every year,
but the problem is not solved,

ONLY THIS MAP IS THE MOST HUMBLE THREAD,
400px-Macedoniahis.jpg


as also nativity Makedonian which by the treaty is another region and ethnicity
and not North Makedonian is bigger thread



But when in Severna as they decide to call their country
read different history at school books.
I am waiting to see their reactions,


The treaty soon will be violated,
it was done only to enter Severna at NATO.

just wait and watch,

Besides since there is no Ivanov's signature and no change of Constitutional name
is already Illegal by the original

AS Makedonian, I have to keep 'τοις κεινων ρημασι'
I do not care about Skopjie if in Nato, or Slavic or Slavic or Albanian or Greek or Turkish,
For me it was an old Ally, who become enemy, but a foreigner.

BUT HE WEARS MY SHOES,
AND GOES TO MARKET AND INTRODUCED WITH MY NAME
 
Read paragraphos #2

nationality nativity, not of Severna Macedonia, but of Makedonia
only citizenship is of North Macedonia,
so they are native, I am foreigner? an intruder?


All Makedonian and Slavomakedonia products will carry equal the mark Makedonian


read

rimatiki_diakoinwsi3.jpg


rimatiki_diakoinwsi2.jpg




No constitutional name change,
Gain nativity nationality,

meaning that the treaty is already violated,
and as Makedonian I lose the nativity.

That is a Betrayal offcourse from my people,
but as long as we exist WE WILL NOT FORGET

neither we will forget the Geoffrey the loser bastard


AND AT THE END IT HAS NOT THE SIGNATURE OF IVANOV,
SO IT IS NOT SECURE AND OFFICIAL,
AS THE GREEK ONE DOES HAVE THE 2/3 of PERLIAMENT
MAKING IT ILLEGAL AND ANTI_CONSTITUTIONAL DESICION<

IT IS BIASED MOVE.
THAT WILL DIVIDE NATIONS
SAME AS IN UKRAINE

the only who will gain are the far deep sterile nationalists, the ones closer the Nazism
So do you think that you can change ones people nationality? How about you change yours first for example.
I live in the Macedonian region (North Macedonia) thus i am Macedonian.
Who is not allowing you to call yourself Macedonian? you call yourself whatever you like.
I even don't care much about nationality so i can choose anyone and it's not up to you to tell me how i will call myself.
 
you mean Greeks Turks Aromainians and Albanians?

then let them name it Slavo-Albanian republic,

What aboout name it as Paeonia?
or Better, how do you think name it Austalia, or (for your nerves) Italy,

simply the choose of the name Makedonia,
was a desicion of Krusevo Aromians (Ilidan), at late 1800's
cause they were not Serbs, not Bulgarians, not Greeks not Albanians,
But become a tool in the hands of South Slavic nations,
specially the era of Communism,

Μυριβηλης is clear about that,
And do you know that in time of Xerxes when he marched through Chalcidice to Therma (Thesaloniki) the one that will become Macedonian core was named Paeonian land,so why don't you also change the name to Paeonia?

The Macedonian region and the ethnonym to become Macedonian was not named by Aromanians.
 
Let's sum up Yetos people like you want the name Macedonia and Macedonian only for yourselves and that is the main issue to you,the nationalist chant "Macedonia is one and only Greek" even thought you clearly know that is not like that.
 

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