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View Poll Results: Do you think that these G2a men share some common looks?

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  • They have many in common.

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  • They have some common.

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Thread: G2a men share some common looks?

  1. #1
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    G2a men share some common looks?

    Do you think there is some common features, or common aura, on these faces of G2a men?
    You can add more photos if the men were tested, or someone on the paternal line, grandfather, father, son.
    1.


    2.


    Ötzi



    3.


    4.


    5.


    The ones below are from the same page. https://anthonyadolph.co.uk/adolph-a...p-g-genealogy/
    6.


    7. The first and the third are G2a.


    8.


    9.


    10.


    11.


    12.


    13.


    14.


    15.
    Last edited by gidai; 01-02-19 at 15:34.

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    More G2a.
    16.


    17.


    18.
    Last edited by gidai; 04-02-19 at 22:39.

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    I found some pictures of I2 men that can be useful for comparison with G2a. Most of its are from here.
    1)

    2)

    3)

    4)

    5)

    6)

    7)

    8)

    9)

    10)
    Last edited by gidai; 05-02-19 at 22:29.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    The ydna doesn't determine appearance. That is controlled by the autosomes.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    I have no claim to a scientific approach, but with little attention I already feel on the whole, a small difference between the faces of I2 and G2a. This is what you feel about. Facial expression is also a mirror of the soul. And man has the dexterity to read the faces well, even if can not express what he sees through words.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gidai View Post
    I found some pictures of I2 men that can be useful for comparison with G2a. Most of its are from here.
    1)

    2)

    3)

    4)

    5)

    6)

    7)

    8)

    9)

    10)
    I am also in this group. When I was in America I was always compared with Robin Williams(dead). In this group of photo I look like Nr 2 and 4. It is a stricken resemblance. I could be a remnant of Visigoths in ALBANIA

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    3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    What about the Yorkshire man John Revis, notorious for his A1?


    Or Milton Nascimento, who is I1?


    Yeah, I know they are somewhat extreme cases, but this fact doesn't change the "logic" of the autosomal being way stronger.

    Na, particularly I don't believe in such thing as "aura". Probably just a subjective perspective akin to cognitive biases like "illusory correlation" (that's "also" how stereotypes emerge). People see this "aura" when they already know the haplogroup to which the man belongs. I'm sure no one would manage to identify macro-haplogroups in random pictures with high chances of success. As Angela pointed out, looking is much more related to Autosomal DNA. Indeed, naturally we all have seen many men who look like their mothers, and many women who look like their fathers. Plus, the diversity I see in my paternal family roughly corresponds to the diversity I notice in other men of the same ethnicity. It's better to do such exercise considering far relatives, 'cause the chances of sharing substantial Autosomal DNA would be lower. Btw, the paternal grandfather of my paternal grandfather had 8 sons (1 died young) and 1 daughter. Each man in the first two generations usually had about 10 children in average. So he left hundreds of descendants men living today, and I've seen many of them either in pictures or personally, in family reunions. So I do have some references. :) Of course, anyone could occasionally observe this variation. No need to test the Y-DNA. Just assume that a certain lineage are related to the same (unkown) haplogroup and that's it.
    Even if haplogroups may contribute to some detectable traits "to the point" of creating 'auras' (and then prevail over Autosomal in specific aspects), why to focus in old macro-haplogroups, many thousand of years old? I mean, why then not to look to, say, GHIJK, or IJ, or K or whatever!? Those are just names for a given set of mutations. Some young subclades have hundreds of additional mutations compared to their macro-haplogroups'. Would it exist, say, a R-M269 aura? Overlapping auras? :)

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    ^^Indeed. Let's not forget all those R1b carrying West Africans either.

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    Regio X and Angela,
    Yes. Most features, such as skin color, are given by autosomes. But somehow Y-DNA may also moderate the formation of these characteristics, such as differences in men to women head conformation. Otherwise, women, could not distinguish ...
    Even much smaller differences between Y-DNA of different haplogroups can be seen in subtle differences on male faces making abstractions of the clear influence of autosomal DNA? It's hard to say indeed.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Honestly I do not see many similarities beyond "generic Caucasoid traits" if you consider all of those men together, not just a few traits that appear in just some of them, but not in all the others. There is no clear pattern. I'd say the similarities have much more to do with the particular G2a-carrying populations some of those men derived from having a certain autosomal DNA makeup that is reasonably close to each other. And then if you get a number of samples high enough, particularly of a reasonably homogeneous (genetically) population as Europeans, you're quite likely to find some coincidental similaritieis in features, nothing to do with carrying this or that haplogroup.

    The entire Y chromosome is already pretty tiny considering the entire genome of a male, let alone only the mutations that will characterize someone's haplogroup (in this case a very upstream one, G2a). What really determines the bulk of one's phenotype, including one's looks, is to be found in the autosomal DNA.

    As Regio pointed out, the fact that so many men look more like their mothers than their fathers also indicate to me that Y-DNA haplogroups won't have much influence at all.

    In Brazil, it is not totally uncommon at all to find European-looking men with e.g. Q1b or maybe E1b1a, and even much, much more common to find undeniably African-looking men carrying I1, R1b-M269 or I2. That does not seem to correlate well with their looks, but it does correlate quite well with the autosomal makeup, though even in that case it is often a flawed correlation, because it may be that randomly more looks-related genes were selected from one's European component than the African component, or vice-versa.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Just for fun: if they prove me that Ahmadinejad is G2a, then I'll be convinced.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    Just for fun: if they prove me that Ahmadinejad is G2a, then I'll be convinced.

    It's really convincing.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    Just for fun: if they prove me that Ahmadinejad is G2a, then I'll be convinced.

    Well, my husband is G2a, and he doesn't look at all like Ahmadinejad, although the pigmentation isn't that far off. :) Gyllenhaal is closer.

    Seriously, almost all G2a in Europe are either L-497, or, like my husband, M406. So, I think it depends.

    The highest concentration of M406 is in eastern Anatolia, near Armenian areas, I think.

    A lot of the men from there definitely seem to have the broad head, broad planed face, long, strong nose and chin thing going on. However, there are a lot men who have those characteristics who are neither Armenian nor carry G2a, like people with such different origins as Clark Gable and Cary Grant, whom I posted on another thread. My husband does carry those traits, however, fwiw.



    It can be extremely attractive, imo: gorgeous man.


    I guess you could call it a "Caucasus" look, which would be a combination of CHG or Iran Neo like and Anatolian Neo like, plus a few odd bits?

    The female version:


    What a difference costume and make up can make.

    Circassian women were renowned for their beauty:




    Anyway, as I said before, the data for "appearance" is on the autosomes. The y probably "masculinizes" the look, but the essentials are the same in males and females.

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    This Caucasus like phenotype is one that has traveled far and wide. All the way to Latin America in this case: Keith Hernandez.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    This Caucasus like phenotype is one that has traveled far and wide. All the way to Latin America in this case: Keith Hernandez.

    Is he a G?

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by gidai View Post
    Is he a G?
    I have no idea. Since his father was from Spain, I would think the odds would be against it. Oh, his mother was Scots-Irish, but I don't see it in him. His father's genetics must have predominated.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    I just found in this:
    Milton Nascimento, from Rio de Janeiro, yDNA haplogroup, E1b1a7, mtDNA haplogroup L3d;
    autosomal, 99,3% african, 0,4% european, 0,3% Amerindian

    It is not an I1 or not even G. If that's the case then it's not an example in this story.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    Just for fun: if they prove me that Ahmadinejad is G2a, then I'll be convinced.
    Well, there are good chances. The frequency of G as a whole in North Iran is ~15%. Don't know about G2a. Anyway, if Ahmadinejad is instead, say, a J, then it would be a thorough proof that the looking comes in fact from haplogroup GHIJK. Lol

    Quote Originally Posted by gidai View Post
    I just found in this:
    Milton Nascimento, from Rio de Janeiro, yDNA haplogroup, E1b1a7, mtDNA haplogroup L3d;
    autosomal, 99,3% african, 0,4% european, 0,3% Amerindian

    It is not an I1 or not even G. If that's the case then it's not an example in this story.
    I'm so sorry, Gidai. I mixed up Milton Nascimento with Djavan, who is a famous Brazilian singer as well.

    Here you have Djavan (Y-DNA I1):


    Source:
    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplo...#famous_people

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    I'm so sorry, Gidai. I mixed up Milton Nascimento with Djavan, who is a famous Brazilian singer as well.

    Here you have Djavan (Y-DNA I1):


    Source:
    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplo...#famous_people
    Oh yes. He is a little closer to Elvis or to the European I1 look. If autosomal would be close to Nascimento, then it would be a proof that Y-DNA I1 has an influence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gidai View Post
    Oh yes. He is a little closer to Elvis or to the European I1 look. If autosomal would be close to Nascimento, then it would be a proof that Y-DNA I1 has an influence.
    Milton Nascimento is 99.3% African. Djavan is 65% African.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    Milton Nascimento is 99.3% African. Djavan is 65% African.
    Really, is Nascimento 99.3% African? Then he is surprisingly a rare outlier among Brazilian blacks. Almost all studies I have seen claim that self-declared Brazilian blacks have around 30-50% (average ~40%) of non-African ancestry. Very few managed to avoid heavy mixing with Europeans and Amerindians along the generations, especially after the 19th century.

    P.S.: By the way, I'm kind of amazed that you know Djavan and Milton Nascimento so well. They'very famous in Brazil (of course), but I thought mostly unknown elsewhere.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    Really, is Nascimento 99.3% African? Then he is surprisingly a rare outlier among Brazilian blacks. Almost all studies I have seen claim that self-declared Brazilian blacks have around 30-50% (average ~40%) of non-African ancestry. Very few managed to avoid heavy mixing with Europeans and Amerindians along the generations, especially after the 19th century.
    P.S.: By the way, I'm kind of amazed that you know Djavan and Milton Nascimento so well. They'very famous in Brazil (of course), but I thought mostly unknown elsewhere.
    Don't be surprised! I'm one of those Southerners Italo-Brazilians with dual citizenship. Cheers! ;)

    I saw few time ago in a FTDNA Project a black Brazilian with more than 80% Sub-Saharan, if my memory serves me.

    As for Milton and Djavan, yep! Really! Here are the sources:
    https://www.bbc.com/portuguese/repor...ilton_cg.shtml

    https://www.bbc.com/portuguese/repor...javan_cg.shtml

    (In continental level, the precision and recall are usually decent nowadays, but they tested in 2007. So not sure about the quality.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    Don't be surprised! I'm one of those Southerners Italo-Brazilians with dual citizenship. Cheers! ;)

    I saw few time ago in a FTDNA Project a black Brazilian with more than 80% Sub-Saharan, if my memory serves me.

    As for Milton and Djavan, yep! Really! Here are the sources:
    https://www.bbc.com/portuguese/repor...ilton_cg.shtml

    https://www.bbc.com/portuguese/repor...javan_cg.shtml

    (In continental level, the precision and recall are usually decent nowadays, but they tested in 2007. So not sure about the quality.)
    Hahaha I KNEW that I couldn't be the sole Brazilian here when Brazilians usually flood all the social networks that they find. LOL Glad to meet (or rather re-meet) a fellow Brazilian here.

    Yes, I had seen the results of the DNA tests reported in those BBC Brazil articles. But I also wondered how accurate they are since they were made so long ago. Anyway, I think any Brazilian black with more than 90% Subsaharan ancestry is kind of an outlier, they're even less numerous than peolpe virtually 100% European ancestry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    Hahaha I KNEW that I couldn't be the sole Brazilian here when Brazilians usually flood all the social networks that they find. LOL Glad to meet (or rather re-meet) a fellow Brazilian here.
    Lol Yes, it's nice to find a fellow here, especially one who promotes high level debates, as you do. Currently I paticipate in just two forums (one is minor). I chose learning in Eupedia, in short, because imo it has a balanced "traffic" and good content, thanks to the moderation and generally good discussions headlined by reasonable and knowledgeable members, as Angela, now you, and some others. Again, cheers! :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    Yes, I had seen the results of the DNA tests reported in those BBC Brazil articles. But I also wondered how accurate they are since they were made so long ago. Anyway, I think any Brazilian black with more than 90% Subsaharan ancestry is kind of an outlier, they're even less numerous than peolpe virtually 100% European ancestry.
    Yeah, I remember of the surprising results of Neguinho da Beija-Flor, who would be a black man with more European Ancestry than African. Perhaps mainly in Bahia and Rio de Janeiro you can find a good number of men with very high Sub-Saharan ancestry, but probably not in other areas. Just a guess. The same way, these "100% Europeans" may show up in certain areas, but they are indeed uncommon in Brazil as a whole. In very few generations they will be rare all over the country.

    Neguinho da Beija-Flor (just 31.5% African?)

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    I've been on a "Queen", Freddie Mercury listening binge, and it finally occurred to me that his phenotype fits in too.

    He was a Parsi from India, although I don't personally see any Indian in him. Instead, he looks very Caucasus like to me, which makes sense since they originated in Iran. Interestingly, before looking him up I always thought he was of European descent of some sort, just always with a tan. :) Compare him to Keith Hernandez who is half Spanish and half Scots Irish.



    It's amazing. This phenotype is indeed spread far and wide. How much "G" in Iran? :)



    Of course, my image of him is always like this. :)



    Gay or not, I always thought he was very sexy.

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