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View Poll Results: Do you think that these G2a men share some common looks?

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  • They have many in common.

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  • They have some common.

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Thread: G2a men share some common looks?

  1. #51
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by gidai View Post
    Many people from this film have close physiognomy to the South Carpathians peasants where all my grand-grandparents come from. I think that they also comes close to the physiognomy of many Balkan inhabitants and around the Black Sea.
    I agree, I noticed long time ago that some Balkan people look very similar to western Georgians. There must have been a relative group that survived on Balkans. Maykop traces perhaps ? They are known to have lived on the east side of Black sea but what would stop them from spreading across the western shores ? While they were researching Svan DNA they did find a few strands closely related to Balkans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by G2ian View Post
    I agree, I noticed long time ago that some Balkan people look very similar to western Georgians. There must have been a relative group that survived on Balkans. Maykop traces perhaps ? They are known to have lived on the east side of Black sea but what would stop them from spreading across the western shores ? While they were researching Svan DNA they did find a few strands closely related to Balkans.
    Very interesting!
    So it is some amount of common DNA in the Balkans and Georgia. In addition to the latest data, in Romania we have a frequency of G2a of at least 7%, and mtDNA X2 over 5% that are rare in Europe but have the largest frequency in Georgia. X2 is only found in Druze in a larger proportion.
    And I am really G2a and coincidentally... I have also mtDNA X2.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by gidai View Post
    Very interesting!
    So it is some amount of common DNA in the Balkans and Georgia. In addition to the latest data, in Romania we have a frequency of G2a of at least 7%, and mtDNA X2 over 5% that are rare in Europe but have the largest frequency in Georgia. X2 is only found in Druze in a larger proportion.
    And I am really G2a and coincidentally... I have also mtDNA X2.
    Could part of Vlachs have Pontic/Caucasian ancestry ? I know they were considered Latin but were they Latinized locals or resettled Romans ?

    I wonder if there has been any anthropological research comparing Carpathians with Caucasians.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by gidai View Post
    Very interesting!
    So it is some amount of common DNA in the Balkans and Georgia. In addition to the latest data, in Romania we have a frequency of G2a of at least 7%, and mtDNA X2 over 5% that are rare in Europe but have the largest frequency in Georgia. X2 is only found in Druze in a larger proportion.
    And I am really G2a and coincidentally... I have also mtDNA X2.
    Where have you tested? Are you G-P303* or G-P303 (no test further)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by G2ian View Post
    Could part of Vlachs have Pontic/Caucasian ancestry ? I know they were considered Latin but were they Latinized locals or resettled Romans ?

    I wonder if there has been any anthropological research comparing Carpathians with Caucasians.
    I do not know about comparative studies between the Carpathians and the Caucasians. But it would be very interesting.
    Aromanians or Vlachs are also G2a but not at great frequency. I'm thinking also of older links. People in the Cucuteni culture, more north and west of the Black Sea, could be a bridge? Recently it was discovered that they carried the G2a haplogrup in an overwhelming proportion. There is also the connection from the south, from Anatolia of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    Where have you tested? Are you G-P303* or G-P303 (no test further)?
    P303 I'm for sure. But then I found only the snp for L13 without the intermediate links... Who know further?

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Angela, I'm from Georgia and I am well aware of how other Caucasians look as well and I can tell you that he does not look like a Caucasian. He has a Persian look to him, although if he had a slightly larger nose and/or a more pronounced brow ridge then he would pass as a Caucasian for sure.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    I'm sure there are differences which locals can spot and outsiders can't.

    The point is that some Iranians also have a "Caucasus" phenotype just as the "Caucasus" component is a big part of their genome. That phenotype spread throughout the Near East and beyond with the movement of people who carried it.

    (If you were talking about Freddie Mercury, other than his terrible teeth, I think he's quite good looking. :) He has clean cut "pure" features and gorgeous eyes and hair, well, when he let it grow.)



    Also, as I've discovered from various population genetics papers, there's a lot of genetic diversity in Iran, which is bound to manifest in phenotypic diversity. They by no means all look like this.


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  9. #59
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I'm sure there are differences which locals can spot and outsiders can't.
    Agreed. And perhaps there are similarities which outsiders can spot and locals can't. :)

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I'm sure there are differences which locals can spot and outsiders can't.

    The point is that some Iranians also have a "Caucasus" phenotype just as the "Caucasus" component is a big part of their genome. That phenotype spread throughout the Near East and beyond with the movement of people who carried it.

    (If you were talking about Freddie Mercury, other than his terrible teeth, I think he's quite good looking. :) He has clean cut "pure" features and gorgeous eyes and hair, well, when he let it grow.)

    Also, as I've discovered from various population genetics papers, there's a lot of genetic diversity in Iran, which is bound to manifest in phenotypic diversity. They by no means all look like this.
    We're not disagreeing with you because we think he looks bad, no :) I just think he looks more European than Caucasian. I wouldn't be surprised if genetically he's mostly Indo-European with some middle eastern mix. Hell that kind of face is far more common in Europe and among European-Americans than in Caucasus. Don't confuse dark complexion with non European look. Armenians often Look more European than Caucasian if only their skin tones were lighter. For example Freddy reminds me of Andrew Lincoln more than any Georgian I've met.
    Attachment 10763

  11. #61
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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by G2ian View Post
    We're not disagreeing with you because we think he looks bad, no :) I just think he looks more European than Caucasian. I wouldn't be surprised if genetically he's mostly Indo-European with some middle eastern mix. Hell that kind of face is far more common in Europe and among European-Americans than in Caucasus. Don't confuse dark complexion with non European look. Armenians often Look more European than Caucasian if only their skin tones were lighter. For example Freddy reminds me of Andrew Lincoln more than any Georgian I've met.
    Attachment 10763
    He may be unusual because he's of Parsi (as in Zoroastrian ) descent. As I said, there seems to be a lot of variation in Iran.

    Girl from Zoroastrian village: She looks European to me. Other Zoroastrians definitely don't.




    This is how they sometimes depict Zoroaster.




    Some non-Zoroastrian Iranians look quite European to me as well, but I don't think they're the norm.


    Or, Freddie may be a one-off. I had no idea he wasn't European, perhaps Greek or something, until years after I first saw one of his videos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    He may be unusual because he's of Parsi (as in Zoroastrian ) descent. As I said, there seems to be a lot of variation in Iran.

    Girl from Zoroastrian village: She looks European to me. Other Zoroastrians definitely don't.

    Holy macaroni that is the most Georgian looking non-Georgian woman I've ever seen.


    Of Course. there is no such thing as "Iranian look" Iran is a mix of hundred different cultures and ethnicities. Including Millions of Georgians resettled by force throughout the centuries. Galiks and Mazandarans are also thought to be of Caucasian ancestry, whether they went willingly, as conquerors or as prisoners we will probably never know. Azeri, Armenian and Georgian ethnic groups still live in Iran. And that's just the ones that kept their culture, I imagine there are more who moved to cities and forgot their roots. as it happens.

    I can't wait til most of the world genes are traced so we can get clearer picture... I'm pretty sure some Georgian tribes completely vanished due to warfare with Iranian and Proto Iranian kingdoms, Some of them were often forcefully resettled to Iran. Latest of such cases was in fact very very recently. Wiki has a good summary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Georgians

  13. #63
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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    G2a men or people don't necessarily share common looks. It's a silly idea. Get it?

    You start getting rude with me and I'll get rude with you, and more importantly there will be other consequences.

    Get it? I don't know what your problem is but you'd better get it sorted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    G2a men or people don't necessarily share common looks. It's a silly idea. Get it?
    You start getting rude with me and I'll get rude with you, and more importantly there will be other consequences.
    Get it? I don't know what your problem is but you'd better get it sorted.
    I did not intend to be rude at all, but you suggest the idea is silly. So, I have wanted to post pictures with G male or clearly identified with other haplogroups for comparison.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't G1 Iranians more common than G2a Iranians? If so, then what if some of the random "G2a" Iranian men posted here are G1 instead?

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    Apart the ethical matter, of course.
    A study on canine clones would be interesting and possible.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by gidai View Post
    I found some pictures of I2 men that can be useful for comparison with G2a. Most of its are from here.
    One more. Cheddar Man (I2a2), "British" from ~10k years ago:


  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    @G2ian @Gidai
    Merely out of curiosity, I remember that someone registered, in the old YSearch, STR markers supposedly from Messi. They pointed to G2a1. Some people thought it was strange, since it's rare in Europe as a whole. Well, Barcelona's players did have their DNAs tested time ago, and his father's paternal grandfather was from Recanati-MC, Marche. If my memory serves, both Boattini (prediction based on STRs) and Ethnopedia show %s above traces for G2a1 in Macerata (~5%?) and Marche (also ~5% - access 2017 May), respectively, hard to find in other places in Europe, apparently. So in fact the result wouldn't be out of the place. Obviously, they may be fake, since any one could register STR markers in there and put whatever name. Still... Who knows!
    That said, here is Messi (G2a1???)

    G2a-L293 Eupedia Map

    Province of Macerata

    See also:
    https://www.sportskeeda.com/football...e-over-arsenal
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...h-Arsenal.html
    (However, these articles are from the beginning of 2016, while the supposed results of Messi were already in YSearch around 2015 July (when someone posted about it here in Eupedia. So, don't know!)
    @Gidai
    This is James Franciscus - from Planet of the Apes -, G2b (former G2c).
    Just saw this. Out of curiosity...

    Italian citizenship
    https://www.corriere.it/cronache/19_...83a15261.shtml

    PS: Didn't make my point clear. An evidence that Messi may be indeed G2a1 is the roughly coincidence between the info at YSearch (a bit earlier) and the publicity of the DNA tests by Barcelona players (a bit later). Still... who knows! :)

    Erratum: G2b1 (Franciscus' clade) is former G2c, not just G2b.

  19. #69
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    I'm number 10 on the G2a list of men, above, and I can say I see no similarities with the other G2a men and I feel the attempt to tie appearance to haplogroup to be a waste of time. While my father's line was G2a, and my mother's was K1a4h, the multitude of my other relatives' lines include all the types of Europe and of most of the Middle East. All of them contributed to my current appearance, for good or ill. Let's do some real science and not go down these silly skin tone and skull shape wormholes.

  20. #70
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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Words of wisdom from a new member. :)

    Fwiw, my husband is G2a, and even without seeing a picture of you I can absolutely 100% guarantee you look nothing alike given your ethnicity.

    There's a lot of silliness in this hobby. This is an example.

  21. #71
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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Unless you can prove that a significant number of genes determining facial appearance are on the Y chromosome, I think any seeming resemblance between G2a is the result of cognitive bias.

  22. #72
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    Ok, let's ignore all the scientific facts proving that phenotype is determined by the autosomes, not yDNA. Wouldn't this "common appearance" also apply to all other haplogroups? Why just G2a? Or are you implying that such similarities also exist among R1b individuals for example?

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    Iranian phenotypes are extremely varied as elsewhere. I have seen anywhere from light haired, green-eyed men that would feel right at home in Northern Italy or France to very hairy, blackest of the black haired men, that would have a shade an hour after shaving, to an Irish looking redhead to Indian looking women. Just like in Greece. It just points out how varied appearances can be.

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