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View Poll Results: Do you think that these G2a men share some common looks?

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  • They have many in common.

    12 52.17%
  • They have some common.

    5 21.74%
  • They have not.

    6 26.09%
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Thread: G2a men share some common looks?

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I have no idea what you're talking about.

    I enjoy a game of baseball every once in a while, provided it's the actual game, and I'm at the stadium. Otherwise, I'm not much of a fan. So, I think "admiring" Keith Hernandez is a bit of a stretch. I just happen to know what he looks like, and think his look is very Caucasus affected.

    As for my husband, he has been a Yankees fanatic all his life, so probably he does admire Hernandez, although I don't know what that has to do with the topic.

    And yes, my husband does or did have a bit of the look of Hernandez, especially when he had a big mustache like that. Alas, no more. I liked it, or him wearing it, more precisely.
    My husband is indeed G2a2, with ancestry from Campania and Calabria, and he looked a lot like Fabio Ceravolo when I first met him. It was love at first sight.

    Fabio Ceravolo



    The Wright Brothers were G2a as well, however, weren't they?


    Good thing I checked: they were "E".

    Who is a famous G2a2?

    That wasn't Stalin's right?

    Wow, he looked so different when he was young. Looks don't match with homicidal tendencies apparently.



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    My father looked like Don Mattingly with a mustache.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joey37 View Post
    My father looked like Don Mattingly with a mustache.
    It was definitely a "thing". :)

    He's one of those guys who I think definitely looked better with the mustache.








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    1 members found this post helpful.
    My paternal line is G2a-Z726, but my male ancestors are, almost certainly, mainly of other Y-DNA types. In fact, when I look at MyTrueAncestry for the Y-DNA distribution of all male samples that match my autosomal DNA kit, G2a doesn't even make the list. Why should I think I'd look anything like other G2a's?

    61.4% R1b
    19.2% R1a
    11.2% I2
    03.5% I1
    01.75% J
    01.75% N

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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    My paternal line is G2a-Z726, but my male ancestors are, almost certainly, mainly of other Y-DNA types. In fact, when I look at MyTrueAncestry for the Y-DNA distribution of all male samples that match my autosomal DNA kit, G2a doesn't even make the list. Why should I think I'd look anything like other G2a's?

    61.4% R1b
    19.2% R1a
    11.2% I2
    03.5% I1
    01.75% J
    01.75% N
    Nice. I don't know about MyTrueAncestry, but I checked three months ago and I have at least 25 confirmed G-L497 (autosomal) matches in 23andMe. I say "at least" because there must be some testees of older versions, and I'm not sure if all versions tested the SNP L497.
    12 of them are confirmed G-L42 (10 out of these 12 are Italians in patrilineal ancestry, mainly NEs), 5 G-CTS4803 (2 Italians), 1 G-Z16775 plus 7 other G-L497s (1 Italian).
    I trace my patrilineal ancestry to NE Italy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    Nice. I don't know about MyTrueAncestry, but I checked three months ago and I have at least 25 confirmed G-L497 (autosomal) matches in 23andMe. I say "at least" because there must be some testees of older versions, and I'm not sure if all versions tested the SNP L497.
    12 of them are confirmed G-L42 (10 out of these 12 are Italians in patrilineal ancestry, mainly NEs), 5 G-CTS4803 (2 Italians), 1 G-Z16775 plus 7 other G-L497s (1 Italian).
    I trace my patrilineal ancestry to NE Italy.
    Under G2a-Z726 I'm predicted to be Z36217, an as-of-yet unconfirmed sister clade of 4803 and 16775.

    I'm fairly lucky because a number of the members of my family in the US and a long-lost cousin in England tested with FTDNA, so I have a very good confirmation of my paper trail. We're from northern England circa 1550.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    Under G2a-Z726 I'm predicted to be Z36217, an as-of-yet unconfirmed sister clade of 4803 and 16775.

    I'm fairly lucky because a number of the members of my family in the US and a long-lost cousin in England tested with FTDNA, so I have a very good confirmation of my paper trail. We're from northern England circa 1550.
    In fact, G-Z36217 is now a confirmed branch. At this moment it has several equivalents though (almost 30), and I'm not sure you'd be positive for all. We'll know soon its TMRCA in YFull (either in the next update or in december). The current two branches have six terminal SNPs each according to ISOGG. We don't know how exactly the combBED region in YFull is defined, so I don't know which of them will be considered for age calculation. I'm guessing something like 800-950 ybp, but who knows! We'll see.
    (Further data may change TMRCAs.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    In fact, G-Z36217 is now a confirmed branch. At this moment it has several equivalents though (almost 30), and I'm not sure you'd be positive for all. We'll know soon its TMRCA in YFull (either in the next update or in december). The current two branches have six terminal SNPs each according to ISOGG. We don't know how exactly the combBED region in YFull is defined, so I don't know which of them will be considered for age calculation. I'm guessing something like 800-950 ybp, but who knows! We'll see.
    (Further data may change TMRCAs.)
    Thanks for that update!

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaterKeklos View Post
    Attachment 11657
    Massively redacted due to too much personal identifying information. Long story short, I'm going to have to agree with those who notice similarities.
    Sildi, Dagestan, home of Khabib Nurmagomedov and the region is really notable for producing fighters also a hotbed of ancestral G2a (I believe literally the highest concentration on earth). At first, I thought that region was probably just the "birthplace of freestyle wrestling" but the fighters span so many different styles including foreign and unrelated ones.
    Abruzzo, Sardinia, Dagestan, Ossetia, Georgia what do these areas have in common? Quite a few behavioral traits that few people could deny. Let's start with "obstinacy" and some sort of inclination towards physical fighting. Abruzzo being a bit of an outlier due to extremely high amounts of post-Neolithic admixture. Unfortunately, my geopolitical work has also made me realize the region produces a lot of the very dangerous religious zealots. When religious zealots from that region reach an active ideological-based war zone, "things hit the fan" whether it be once they reached the Balkans, Iraq, or their own wars for independence against Russia. In regards to the Balkans, this is speaking tremendous volumes. Certain groups "had things under control" until insurgents from that region joined the mix.
    I'm sorry but "cultural similarities" explaining these things despite complete geographic isolation from one another and absolutely no shared common history for several thousand years factually does not in anyway explain these commonalities. I think people from the Caucasus will agree and unlike some people on this forum, will take this as a huge compliment rather than living by the maxim that "violence of any kind is indicative of low intelligence". Sorry also factually false. Take a look at the IQ's of the American spec ops community who have the highest tempo rotations of anyone possibly on planet earth at the moment after 18 years of low-intensity foreign wars with an all volunteer service...
    Now this post is about physical characteristics. Since that seems to be "up for debate". The head shape is also almost block-like. "Oh that's just shared autosomal genetic ancestry stretching back to the Neolithic". Ya perhaps it is... and so would it not make sense that the Neolithic Farmers weren't pacifist peace loving hippies and actually extremely obstinate and ferocious and thus were wiped out violently in a series of wars against the invading Indo-Europeans who were phenotypically radically different? Wiped out practically to a last man in most regions of Europe. Sound like a... "culture clash" of the highest order vs the current narrative of: "The Indo-Europeans were just peaceful pastoralists who just simply out reproduced the Neolithic farmers because of "higher sperm counts" (even though absolutely nothing scientific would indicate this to be true[ie. nothing indicates R1b/R1a have higher sperm motility than G2a but somehow that's the narrative on this forum])".
    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014...ore-sex-switch
    https://www.nature.com/articles/nature13151
    Pater, I'm a bit bored about this subject, since I talked too much about it*, but I'll give this one more answer (I assume you read all this thread already?).
    Firstly, interesting articles. Y chromosome is obviously important. But keep in mind that Y chromosome as a whole and a given Y "haplogroup" are two distinct dimensions.
    Yeah, I know it'd be cool if haplogroups left that visible marks on their "carriers", but we've to deal with the impositive reality. For example, regarding Stalin (I see you deleted your first post, but here we go), even if haplogroups have/had some importance in this regard, it wouldn't be that obvious. Naturally, the comparison between two G individuals would not be enough to evidence such substantial influence of the hg over head shape or whatever. Rather, you'd need a great sampling showing it really compete in an important way with Autosomal. Things certainly are way more complex than "I look like Stalin".
    I'm G-L497 myself, btw, and I'd be an easy exemplum in contrarium, if it were the case.
    Also, not sure why you'd use G as a link between those areas you mentioned, under a genetic perspective, given it's really, really common just in Ossetia (Georgia has regional differences, and G is really common in western half). Certainly the people from Abruzzo don't own whatever supposed characteristics they have to an hg that is not even frequent among them (up to 10%).

    Finally, I'm not sure why you'd assume you're G-L497 without testing further. If you are, that would be, say, "casual". There are many other G clades in Europe, and G-L497 is not the most common everywhere in the continent.

    *Related posts:
    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/showth...593#post589593
    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/showth...795#post589795
    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/showth...894#post589894

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaterKeklos View Post
    I can't go into details. You saw the redacted version but I'd like to maintain some retroactive privacy from the rest of the public.
    If the Y-chromosome may function as the "control chromosome" thus manipulating the autosomal and autosomal combinations create discernible characteristics in different populations, why would it be a stretch to say the Y-chromosome might cause the autosomal DNA effecting head shape to be that way?
    Furthermore, I am not G-L497 just G-L30. Given that would make me one of only a few people in the world with no downstream clade of G-L30 and the high % of G-L497 relative to anything else in Europe, I put G-L497 because assuming I'm just G-L30 full stop would seem absurd at best. However, it's entirely possible that I am, in fact, G-L30 with no downstream. It would just be so statistically rare for Italy that it would not benefit research to operate under that assumption. However, let's assume this to be the case, then that would mean I do share an even more specific clade with Stalin than you as a G-L497 that mutated much more recently than mine or Stalin's.
    https://sites.google.com/site/haplog...a-samples-g2a5
    So far, only one man
    has been found to have L30 and simultaneously be negative for the two L30
    subgroups.

    I don't test positive for downstream clades of G. So I assume the tests to be wrong unless I'm literally pretty much the only man on earth with G-L30.
    Correct me here if I'm wrong.
    Pater, I wouldn't even know how to begin. :)
    Let's go in short...
    Again, regarding the articles, you're seeing "human Y chromosome" and reading "Y generic (sub-)haplogroups".
    As for G-L30, it's also possible you tested an old version of 23andMe. Is that so? More recent versions tested additional SNPs. You should just test G Superpanel at YSEQ. Not that expensive.
    Stalin belongs to some branch below G2a1, while G-L497 is under G2a2.

    Btw, a clade that you and Stalin shares? Aren't you G-L497 anymore? :) Man, you do look a bit confused, because Stalin is not even G-L30 (G2a2b).
    Finally, why do you think G-L497 mutated more recently? It depends on which clade it's being compared to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaterKeklos View Post
    Read what I said. I did the FamilyTreeDNA Big 700. Does 700 short tandem repeats and 200k SNP's. It's the deepest subclass test available. It concluded I am G-L30 with no downstream thus I invalidate the evidence because I would be 1/2 men on earth with this.
    Stalin's original clade is more similar to mine than G-L497. Date of mutation? I am referring to original date of mutation.
    Read and watch your mouth.
    Lol Firstly you suggested - in the "deleted message" - you tested at 23andMe and that you don't know if you're G-L497. Now you say you tested BigY and you're G-L30*. Hmm Right!

    No, dude, every G-L497 is also G-L30. The most recent common patrilineal ancestor of any G-L497 man and any other G-L30 man lived more recently compared to the time of the most recent common ancestor of G-L30 and Stalin's clade. Have you ever heard about YFull and TMRCAs?
    Jesus! This is a crazy talk!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaterKeklos View Post
    Your suggestion is to do a deeper subclade test and I've done the deepest. 23andme had me also at G-L30 hence why I was told to do a deep subclade test. Well I did EXACTLY what you are suggesting and got the same result.

    As far as sharing a common ancestor with Stalin, how is this possible if G-L30 WITHOUT DOWNSTREAM CLADES is ANCESTRAL to G-L497 AND Stalin's?
    You said you didn't know if you are G-L497, but you supposedly tested BigY.

    It seems you didn't get it yet. G-L30 (G2a2b) is ancestral to G-L497, but not to Stalin's clade (G2a1). Please stop talking and go doing a basic research.

    I'm done here!

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    Pater, please stop sending me "kind" PMs.
    Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaterKeklos View Post
    Attachment 11661
    You not believing that I'm G-L30 despite the deepest subclade test is the only issue here. Either that or your absolutely horrible reading comprehension skills. Pick your poison.
    You just continue to parrot the same thing which can be summarized by the following: "I have reading comprehension levels similar to that of a housefly. I'm going to continuously ignore that you've addressed both the G-L30 23andme/Big 700 subclade downstream points and continue to parrot nonsense about how that must be impossible and redundantly repeat that you haven't done deep enough testing despite doing the deepest test commercially available. Now I'm "done" here because I'm unable to fathom the possibility that you are possibly a very ancient clade of G-L30 that is in fact closer to G2a1 than G-L497 so I'm just going to repeat myself over and over"................
    Dear Pater, then go to FTDNA and inform Italy as your patrilineal location, because I couldn't find an Italian G-L30* in Block Tree. If you tested BigY, you should have made it clear in the message you deleted, but you mentioned only 23andMe, and suggested you didn't know if you are G-L497. Assuming you did test BigY, then next time communicate it better.

    I'll try to explain it again, because you seem to be a newbie after all. No problem, but you should be more open and try to learn something rather than insist on error.

    Firstly, Stalin was G-Z6552, i.e., G2a1. Stalin was not G-L30 (G2a2b) then.

    This is the ISOGG phylogenetic tree of G:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...ijU/edit#gid=0

    Notice that G-L30 is G2a2b, so everybody below G-L30 is closer to each other than they are to G-Z6552 (G2a1), when it comes to patrilineal ancestry.

    This is the YFull tree of G2a (G-P15):
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/G-P15/

    TMRCA means Time to Most Recent Common Ancestor. The TMRCA between Stalin (G-Z6552) and us (you and me, G-L30, since I'm G-L497 then also G-L30) is 17400 ybp (years before present), which naturally corresponds to G-P15's. The TMRCA between you and I, in turn, corresponds to G-L30's, which is 14400 ybp. Got it? Our most recent common patrilineal ancestor lived 3000 years after your and Stalin's.

    So, stop getting offended when I say you're confused. Don't be proud. Just try to understand what is written and learn something. No problem at all on it. If you're not getting what is written due to lack of details on my part, than ask deeper explanations.

    ED: correction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaterKeklos View Post
    "Cant find an Italian G-L30"... Yes, like I said, it would make me one of 2 people on PLANET EARTH with that and no downstream thus I do not agree with 23andme or FamilyTreeDNA as I've said at least 3 times. You don't read my posts. Why did I originally postulate G-L497? I SPECIFICALLY said this is because a G-L30 Big 700 and 23andme result most both be erroneous. If not, then yes I am a rarity but as I said countless times, this must be due to error. Again READ.

    Compare Stalin's G-L293 it to my G-L30 erroneous clade. Compare G-L293 to G-L30 because until some magical deeper test comes around to further clarify, all I have to go by is that I'm G-L30.

    G-L497 mutated in the end of the Neolithic right before the Bronze Age so how on earth could G-L30, which mutated and branched off of the G2a parent group in the EARLY NEOLITHIC possibly not be ancestral to yours and much closer in time to the TMRCA of G-L293?!

    "You are also G-L30" sure then we're all Africans by that logic. No mine is older and thus closer to the common TMRCA split that yielded G2a1 and G-L30. You are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay downstream of that. Got it?

    2 Problems here:

    1) You don't read.

    2) You don't believe I'm G-L30 and think I'm something downstream. I agree but the evidence suggests this to be false. So until a better test than the Big 700 rolls around, I have to operate under the strange condition that I'm a lost clade of G-L30. There is 1 other man confirmed to be this. I have no information on what country he is from. That would make myself and any paternal relatives (few) also in that exclusive group. Your disbelief is causing you to repeat yourself like a mindless parrot.

    3) G-L30 full stop IS NOT = G-L497. G-L497 came MUCH later. Thus your specific subclade is MUCH NEWER THAN MINE. Therefore, mine is MUCH CLOSER TO STALIN'S. Sorry to burst your bubble, you are a common clade G-L497, I am not. Time to be a little more sentient.

    -Shortened Version for Regio who struggles with reading: I am a VERY ANCIENT and UPSTREAM clade of G2a, far more ancient than your very recent G-L497. YOU ARE NOT BASE G-L30 YOU ARE DOWNSTREAM OF G-L30. Thus the TMRCA of MY haplogroup IS FACTUALLY CLOSER IN TIME TO STALIN'S THAN YOURS. Pay attention.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaterKeklos View Post
    Excellent. I'm glad you finally realize you have a sub-100 IQ. What is your IQ, sir? I know mine after 2 separate tests by psychologists. One was 4 hours long the other 6 split into three 2 hours segments.

    What is your IQ? Please tell the forum.
    Big guy, you are way out of bounds.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    3 generations; my grandfather, my father, me
    IMG-0133.jpgIMG-2204.jpgIMG-1261.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaterKeklos View Post
    I thought you said you weren't a fighter ;)

    Looks like some of my assumptions are starting to ring true. Keep swinging. It's in you somewhere... hopefully ;)

    Oh Navy. Now everything makes sense. Nice comfy desk job?
    Navy fighters , F-4 and F-14, seven cruises in harms way, so I’m not shy, but I don’t accept nasty ad hominem attacks. BTW, my father and father-in-law are both career military. One son is an Army Ranger, the other a tech in the Air Force.

    How do you like them apples?

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