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Thread: New Study on Bourbon DNA by Gerard Lucotte

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    New Study on Bourbon DNA by Gerard Lucotte

    The Y-SNP Z-381 Is a Patrilineal DNA Marker of the Royal Bourbon Family of France

    Just bringing this to your attention (in case you haven't seen it already). I still can't post links, so just Google the title.<br>

    No really big news, but G. Lucotte has turned his attention to the Bourbons for a Y-DNA analysis. It appears that Prince Sixte-Henri of Bourbon-Parma is quite helpful to the former's team. I don't like that Louis XVI is automatically also assigned to be R1b, though. The study from 2013 didn't prove anything in that matter.<br>

    P. S. Is it just me or someone is trying to imply a much closer agnatic connection between the Bourbons and the Wettins?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venko2257 View Post
    P. S. Is it just me or someone is trying to imply a much closer agnatic connection between the Bourbons and the Wettins?
    Of course there was. One just has to know more than the basics of both families.

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    I agree. It's just as if a member of the House of Wettin cheated on a member of the House of Bourbon with the latter's wife and everyone was trying to manoeuvre around it. I'm probably wrong though.

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    Leandro was the illegitimate son of the late Spanish King Alfonso XIII and uncle of Juan Carlos I.



    Leandro was the son of Alfonso Xlll and a republican actress, what a paradox.
    Leandro has already died but he has a son who has become a good candidate and someone who has proposed in the genetic test and get to know the Bourbons better.

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    Speaking of King Alfonso XIII, I recently had a look at pictures of his "official" grandfather, Duke Francisco. There is a vague resemblance between them. Of course, until someone from that branch (such as this man, who may or may not be the King's son) gets tested, we have no way of knowing and so have to stick with the Queen's spouse.
    Incidentally, Alfonso XIII has always seemed a bit gay to me. If he did have illegitimate children, then he may have been bisexual instead. Oh, well...

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    [CITA = Venko2257; 567137] Hablando del rey Alfonso XIII, hace poco eché un vistazo a las fotos de su abuelo "oficial", el duque Francisco. Hay un vago parecido entre ellos. Por supuesto, hasta que alguien de esa rama (como este hombre, que puede o no ser el hijo del Rey) se haga la prueba, no tenemos forma de saberlo y, por lo tanto, tenemos que quedarnos con el cónyuge de la Reina.
    Por cierto, Alfonso XIII siempre me ha parecido un poco gay. Si tuvo hijos ilegítimos, entonces podría haber sido bisexual en su lugar. Oh, bueno ... [/ CITA]

    Leandro was finally recognized by the Spanish Royal family as the son of Alfonso Xlll. There are genetic tests, I think I remember an interview with Leandro's son who said he had a genetic test, many years ago and now almost nobody knows about the haplogrupos e.t.c. In those years, the only journalistic interest would be about fatherhood. If someone is interested, I should contact Leandro's son because I do not think Felipe is willing.

    Alfonso Xlll was hotter than the grill of McDonalds, he must have had hundreds of lovers and was the first producer of pornographic films in Spain. Luis Fernando de Orleans cousin of Alfonso I think he was homosexual but Alfonso Xlll has never commented anything, it is possible that he was bisexual, I do not know, he had never thought about it.

    https://cadenaser.com/emisora/2019/0...44_130969.html

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Wow, I didn't know about that!
    I agree that Luis Alfonso, as well as Juan Carlos I and Felipe VI should not be tested (if they don't want it), but this man's son could be tested, if he wishes. If he turns out to be the same as the three princes from the original research, then everything is OK.
    There is also some doubt about the line of the Duke of Seville*. Further testing may confirm the matters.

    * Long story short, there have been rumours that the wife of King Carlos IV cheated on him and his last son, Infante Francisco, was not actually his. The latter had two sons: the elder was the father (?) of King Alfonso XII and the younger is the progenitor of the current Duke of Seville.
    Last edited by Venko2257; 15-02-19 at 18:39.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venko2257 View Post
    The Y-SNP Z-381 Is a Patrilineal DNA Marker of the Royal Bourbon Family of France

    Just bringing this to your attention (in case you haven't seen it already). I still can't post links, so just Google the title.<br>

    No really big news, but G. Lucotte has turned his attention to the Bourbons for a Y-DNA analysis. It appears that Prince Sixte-Henri of Bourbon-Parma is quite helpful to the former's team. I don't like that Louis XVI is automatically also assigned to be R1b, though. The study from 2013 didn't prove anything in that matter.<br>

    P. S. Is it just me or someone is trying to imply a much closer agnatic connection between the Bourbons and the Wettins?
    Here is the long-awaited link: https://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperI...?PaperID=90376

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    This man is the grandson of Alfonso Xlll is called Leandro like his father who is the son of Alfonso Xlll out of wedlock. Apparently he is at a fair in Madrid and says he was invited by Pilar, the sister of Juan Carlos l which shows that he has relations with the Royal House or at least part of it. For many years, this topic has not been discussed in the Spanish media.

    He must have relations only with the King's sisters because in this interview he is giving opinions about the imputation of the Infanta Cristina, about hunting the king's lefantes, so I doubt that he has relations with Felipe and the emeritus kings so it is possible that I agreed to the genetic test.

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    Blanca de Borbón

    She is also the daughter of Leandro de Borbón and therefore a granddaughter of Alfonso Xlll. It seems to be because of her words that she is the most resentful of the family Bourbon in the shade so she would be a good candidate to scrub the swab out of her mouth.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Thank you for the information!
    You are saying that Leandro Borbon has been confirmed as a biological son of King Alfonso XIII, right? In that case his sons should have the same Y-Chromosome DNA as him (more or less). If Leandro Junior gets tested, his result should be compared to that of, say, Prince Sixte-Henri of Bourbon-Parma. After that, we will know if a Non-paternity event has occurred.
    Is King Carlos IV the biological father of Infante Francisco?
    Is Duke Francisco the biological father of King Alfonso XII?
    Who knows? 😒

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Bourbon1.JPG.jpg
    I have quickly made a patrilineal line of descent of the Royal House of Bourbon. It begins with King Louis XIII and branches at his great-grandson King Felipe V.
    Bourbons2.JPG.jpg
    Infante Francisco, Duke of Cadiz, is sometimes considered to not have been the biological son of King Carlos IV.
    Bourbons3.JPG.jpg
    King Alfonso XII is usually considered not to have been the biological son of King Consort Francisco.
    Bourbons4.JPG.jpg
    Is Leandro Jr. a seventh cousin of Sixte-Henri of Bourbon-Parma?

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    More than considerations could be demonstrated because Leandro is confirmed to be the grandson of Alfonso Xlll. The only way to see it would be scientifically.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    OK, which is why if Leandro is willing, he should test and find his Y-DNA haplogroup. It should be R1b, at the very least.
    P. S. I have found a brief article about Leandro Senior's recognition as an illegitimate son of King Alfonso XIII:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/1431536/Royal-bastard-is-uncle-of-Spains-king-judge-rules.html
    It appears that no DNA test has been done, as the judge thought it was not really needed.
    Last edited by Venko2257; 18-02-19 at 13:47. Reason: "New" information found

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    On a related note, it appears that Naundorff may have been Louis XVII after all.
    In 2014, Hughes de Bourbon, a patrilineal descendant of the former, was tested by Gerard Lucotte and his results were compared to those of the "confirmed" princes of Bourbon-Parma and Orleans-Braganza. Yes, it's R1b and there are only six differences in mutations.

    Link: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=2573698

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    ^^
    Unofficially, I am convinced that there is genetic testing. I remember that Leandro Junior commented on it in an interview many years ago and it is something that anyone would have resorted to. I do not know with what direct family member of the Royal House they did it but the proof exists; if only by logic.

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    https://www.ijsciences.com/pub/article/1005

    This is from 2016. So Naundorff may not have been Louis XVII after all. 😫
    The Y-STR profile of King Louis XVI does appear to be similar enough to those of the Living Bourbons, but everything is so confusing, that I don't know what to believe anymore.

    As for Carlos and Leandro Junior: it is perfectly possible that while the Spanish judge had not commissioned a DNA test, one was made regardless.

    I was left with the impression that you know this family personally. Am I right? 😉

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    ^^No, I do not know her but they are familiar to me, I do not know why.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    That's OK!
    Maybe one day we could meet them in person! 😁😁😁

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    Everything is possible

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    Estimados Sres,

    Hay una linea de investigacion especifica sobre Alfonso XII y su descendencia dirigida por el profesor Lucotte.

    Esta linea de investigacion me impacta persona y directamente, y por este motivo intervengo usando la posibilidad del pseudo con respeto a las normas de este forum, por razones obvias de discrecion.

    Solo quisiera hacer hincapié en el siguiento punto dado la puesta tan importante de estas investigaciones tanto ante la Historia y la ciencia como ante la familia: ha demostrado el pr Lucotte que el haplogroup al que pertenece la linea paterna agnaticia (podriamos decir "salica") de Bourbon/Borbon es el Z-381. Como si de cualquiera otra investigacion cientifica se tratara, opino que no se debe dar por sabida la identidad genética de tal o tal persona con la antedicha linea Z381 mientras no se haya averiguado en el caso de la referida persona, por mucho apellido y apariencia que se tenga.

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    Thank Heavens for Google Translate!

    From what I understood, you are not convinced about the haplogroup of the Bourbons? It should be R1b-U106 (Z381* subclade). This was established back in 2013 by Larmuseau and others. Here: https://www.nature.com/articles/ejhg2013211

    It is only personal curiosity on my part about the Y-chromosomal haplogroup of the current Spanish Royal Family, as well as that of people such as Luis Alfonso (Duke of Anjou to his supporters). I just want to know if Queen Isabella II was "loyal" to her husband or not.

    P. S. Next time please write in English. Google Translate is nice, but you shouldn't get too attached to it!

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    Dear sir, I don't understand: I repplied (in English) to your kind message this morning and nothing appears on the blog...? did you received it?

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    Apparently not. Your first post is in Spanish. I used Google Translate for it and wrote a reply. I haven't seen another message from you.

    You may not have sent it properly. There isn't anything in my inbox either.

    Don't worry about it :) Just send it again!

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    dear venko2257 and other members,

    First of all, I apologize for my bad English language, which is not my native one.

    I fully agree with you and I am definately convinced about the Z-381 haplogroup of the Bourbons/Borbon, which was researched and found by genetician prof Lucotte.

    What I meant in my previous message is that I think nobody should - from now on - be regarded as a member of the said dynasty (or any otherone) but those who have personally tested and been confirmed such an identity. Times are changing quickly: being officially recognized as such and legally assuming the said surname does no longer seem irrebuttable a presumtion.

    You mentioned prince Sixte-Henri de Bourbon Parme: he "shew" his blood and contributed to the historic scientific work of prof Lucotte.

    In my capacity as a descendant of an "illegitimate" son (what a dark and shameful word in 2019), I feel mostly important that science assume its mission in this field. It seems to me that, from now on, time of pride and appearances reign (in this field) has gone or will collapse before long. My main expectation is the advent of time of science, which is time of truth and justice.




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