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Thread: News Article on Wang Paper - PIE is Anatolian again?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ToBeOrNotToBe View Post
    Whatever spread high CHG levels to the Steppe did so, surely, in the 7th millennium BCE
    I would say substantially 5th millennium BC. Khvalynsk would suggest that yDNA Q1a was within the community that spread it, and that it was probably not indicative of high status, but flourished nonetheless. Limited autosomal DNA data suggests a best-fit origin in the Northern Caucasus. Limited phylogenic data on yfull estimates a possible coalescence point in the Northern Caucasus. Whether or how much it influenced IE, I cannot say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by halfalp View Post
    As for Leyla-Tepe, just by deduction on ancestry, what are the odds that the lineages from Velikent in this paper are not the same that the one in Leyla-Tepe? Because as far as i see all this, from late paleolithic to nowadays, South Caucasus / Iran seems very dominated by J and G2b as y-dna lineages. But of course the demic hypothesis is not anymore, now it's about ancestral component and cultural similarities, circular arguments. It's funny how we pass from demic expansion to ancestral component to cultural influences in the IE studies, with always South Caucasus as a premise with Harvard / Planck.
    Hajji Firuz had J2b and Z2103 (lack of C14 dating isn’t a huge issue, the Z2103 is probably that old as it’s more similar to those dated J2b’s than the later Z2103 sample), so Leila Tepe could easily be Z2103 I guess

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    Quote Originally Posted by halfalp View Post
    Well that's it, they have in common the Seven Star Goat constellation. ( Does it exist? ). Why those loans should be Semitic ( once again... ) and not the other way around or even a third source? We ain't gonna move forward the schmilblick with those circular arguments. Also, does the I&G linguistic hypothesis goes something else but loanwords?
    In the case of Semitic it's easy to tell because there are several Afro-Asiatic branches, of which Semitic might be the youngest.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by halfalp View Post
    But of course the demic hypothesis is not anymore, now it's about ancestral component and cultural similarities
    Ancient DNA shows that from Bactria to Italy the Indo-European world used to be a genetic continuum centered around the south Caucasus


    Only the most fringe regions of the IE world like northern Europe were outliers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saetrus View Post
    Ancient DNA shows that from Bactria to Italy the Indo-European world used to be a genetic continuum centered around the south Caucasus
    Very useful. Thanks. I'd love to read the paper this was taken from. Could you please post a link?

    I wonder what they call Persians though. There would have been no "Persians" proper in Persia in the Bronze Age yet.
    It is therefore worth while to search out the bounds between opinion and knowledge; and examine by what measures, in things whereof we have no certain knowledge, we ought to regulate our assent and moderate our persuasion. (John Locke)

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by hrvclv View Post
    Very useful. Thanks. I'd love to read the paper this was taken from. Could you please post a link?

    I wonder what they call Persians though. There would have been no "Persians" proper in Persia in the Bronze Age yet.
    It appears to be a PCA that was edited in MS Paint. Thus I assume it is his speculation. It is fine to speculate, but we don't actually know where the Romans would plot at the moment. All we have right now are an anthrogenica user's interrpertation of a lecture on Ancient Italian DNA. Moreover, we are not certain which samples they are, or if they are definitive. Moreover, fwiw, the user said the samples overlap "60% with Northern Italy, and 40% with Southern Italy".

    At any rate, I don't want to derail this thread, so here is the thread dedicated to that subject:

    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...er-in-Stanford
    Last edited by Jovialis; 15-02-19 at 20:42. Reason: spelling

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pip View Post
    I would say substantially 5th millennium BC. Khvalynsk would suggest that yDNA Q1a was within the community that spread it, and that it was probably not indicative of high status, but flourished nonetheless. Limited autosomal DNA data suggests a best-fit origin in the Northern Caucasus. Limited phylogenic data on yfull estimates a possible coalescence point in the Northern Caucasus. Whether or how much it influenced IE, I cannot say.
    Assuming those evidences are true, then why must they mean a spread to the steppes essentially in the 5yh millennium BC and not before? There was CHG-like admixture even in Mesolithic EHG, I would not be totally surprised if a relevant part if the CHG affinities in the steppes (at least its southeastern portion) dated to even before the arrival of the Neolithic package there and increased even more after it. I think samples going from roughly 6000 to 4500 BC could help us a lot to determine what happened. By 4200 BC the steppes were already full of CHG and later there was IIRC only incremental increase of an admixture process that was already nearly complete by the Chalcolithic. That is why I think there is little more than wishful thinking in linking Maykop or any post-Leyla Tepe Caucasian culture to the steppe cultures that would participate in the origin of Yamnaya and CWC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markod View Post
    In the case of Semitic it's easy to tell because there are several Afro-Asiatic branches, of which Semitic might be the youngest.
    There is no such a thing as a younger language or language family. It may be just that the split of Semitic from a common ancestor happened later, but those para-Semitic branches definitely went extinct, and the closest common split with Semitic might be much older, probably with either Egyptian or Berber. The Afro-Asiatic subfamilies have such an old common language that they also lack a very rich common vocabulary as you can find in IE subfamilies. There are only a handful of certain cognates between Omotic and Semitic or even Cushitic and Semitic. Anyways, I would really like to know how I&G established if a word was a loanword. Mere sound similarity is very deceiving, if you have thousands of words it is not that hard to find some sound-alikes by mere chance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hrvclv View Post
    Very useful. Thanks. I'd love to read the paper this was taken from. Could you please post a link?
    I wonder what they call Persians though. There would have been no "Persians" proper in Persia in the Bronze Age yet.
    We have an Iron Age sample from Iran:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saetrus View Post
    Ancient DNA shows that from Bactria to Italy the Indo-European world used to be a genetic continuum centered around the south Caucasus


    Only the most fringe regions of the IE world like northern Europe were outliers.
    Sorry to say, but that is a logical phallacy. It assumes as a certain thing that IE-speaking regions would all derive most of their genetic ancestry from the first PIE speakers, but that is not a given and would even be kind of surprising considering the historic movements we know of that ended up spreading some of the IE languages, like Latin, Persian and Slavic. Another problem is that some of those ancient ethnicities in the PCA had more than 1000 or 2000 years since the supposed IE migration into their respective areas. Such an analysis presumes that everyone stayed put, and only IE people migrated, conquered and caused partial genetic replacement in other lands. There is a clear evidence of independent expansion of an Iranian/Caucasian ancestry in the CA/BA besides that of "steppe" and certainly even other population movements.

    By that same token, we would find that the majority of the Turkic speakers nowadays are like East Asian-shifted West Eurasians, and the mostly East Asian Turkic people are at the eastern periohery of their territory, then we'd assume that their homeland was more to the west than it probably was and its inhabitants more West Eurasian than they in fact were. I read the PCA in a different fashion: some of the IE populations look like they are slightly shifted toward the BA steppe to Bell Beaker continuum in comparison with the Mesolithic/Neolithic samples (Neolithic Iran, Chalcolithic Iran and EEF).

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    Quote Originally Posted by markod View Post
    In the case of Semitic it's easy to tell because there are several Afro-Asiatic branches, of which Semitic might be the youngest.
    Compare IE languages differentiation with AA ones, and look how of a big issue it is. What is AA language family is basically something that needs big update.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ToBeOrNotToBe View Post
    Hajji Firuz had J2b and Z2103 (lack of C14 dating isn’t a huge issue, the Z2103 is probably that old as it’s more similar to those dated J2b’s than the later Z2103 sample), so Leila Tepe could easily be Z2103 I guess
    I think it's unlikely. I dont believe to the ( it could have been ). If R1b is shown, then ok, but enough of circular arguments. There is no reason that Z2103 was that early south of the caucasus, wich just embarass Narasimhan and the future of his studies. It's a big issue if on two individuals, one can be dated but not the most important one.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saetrus View Post
    We have an Iron Age sample from Iran:
    What I find interesting (in comparing the two graphs - whoever edited them) is the parallel genetic flows : one in northern Europe, developing homogeneously from the steppe, and one in southern Europe, with a clear CHG/Iranian influx.

    As I see things, the pink dots labelled Thessaloniki are what became of the populations Pip refers to as East Balkan (Ezero derived), after they had received a slight influx of CHG. As one moves south from them towards Mycenaeans, the CHG+EEF regularly increases, and the steppe gets increasingly diluted (with the exception of Crete, pulled northwards by Dorians et alia).

    The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that BB steppe ancestry didn't come through Romania/Bulgaria. Or if it did, it didn't linger there. I even wonder whether L51 came via Hungary and across the Carpathians at all. They didn't have as much CHG as the steppe people just north of the Caucasus. It is easy enough to assume they moved from some point further north on the steppe (under threat of R1a tribes?), and went west skirting CWC territory, then along the northern slopes of the Carpathians, into GAC territory, or what was left of it. Bringing their own version of Centum PIE with them.

    I honestly did consider Suvorovo and Ezero as source pops for BB at one time. But Suvorovo is definitely too old (and had vanished long before BB emerged), and Ezero would have been too admixed by 2500 BC, after 600 years of rubbing elbows with farmers.

    As for PIE originating south of the Caucasus, I don't know any better than the next guy, but I find it strange that those R1a People, up north in the forest steppe, should have taken to a geographically remote language just to please their neighbors and trade with them. People change languages when they are militarily, or economically, or culturally, superseded. It takes time and pressure. Gaulish is reported by Sidonius Appolinaris to still have been spoken in rural Gaul more than 500 years after the Roman conquest, in spite of Roman cultural prestige and economic prowess.

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    Let's look at this question from a different angle - the East Ukraine outlier I6561 circa 4,000 BC with yDNA R1a-M417. It bears little autosomal resemblance to other early samples in that region, looking neither like Ukraine Neolithic nor Yamnayan. We know that multiple Suvorovo-Novodanilovka sites popped up in East Ukraine at around 4,000 BC. We know of other Suvorovo-Novodanilovka sites (some with earlier dates) in the Balkans/East Carpathians. We know that a similar autosomal mix to I6561 arose in two Bulgarian sites dated to 4,500 BC, and that the East Ukraine sites contained some Balkan-derived objects. There seems little doubt to me that I6561 was substantially an East Balkan/Carpathian Suvorovo-derived individual.

    We can see that this I6561 outlier has the same yDNA as both Corded Ware and Sintashta/Indo-Aryans, and an almost identical autosomal DNA mix to both Corded Ware and Sintashta. Its Suvorovo-Novodanilovka derived community shows little signs of yDNA or autosomal mixing with any other populations over the 1,500 years that elapsed before its Corded Ware and Sintashta derivatives emerged. It looks to have been largely self-contained and endogamous, with little sign of any colonisation, subjugation or dilution from other populations, and therefore seems unlikely to have adopted any language from outside its own community. All of its many derivative populations appear to use the satem branch of Indo-European, which does not seem to arise in other populations. I6561's community looks to me a very strong candidate for proto-satem IE.

    As I6561 appears to derive principally from admixed Suvorovo populations in the Balkans/Carpathians, and we know that some of these populations remained in these Western locations, it seems likely to me that these I6561-related Western-leaning populations with similar autosomal mixes were most likely (the predominantly western) proto-centum IE.

    Accordingly, the early/mid-5th millennium BC East Balkans/Carpathians looks a prime candidate for a pre-satem/centum branching of IE.

    Autosomally, this population appears to have been approximately 65:35 Steppe:EEF in satem Novodanilovka East Ukraine, and was likely to have been more weighted towards EEF in the centum Carpathians/Balkans. As the satem M417 populations in the East admixed very little with any other populations after 4,000 BC, I see no reason to assume that the centum M269 populations in the West would have admixed heavily either with EEF populations in the West before they spread their people and languages across Western Europe.

    Based on this hypothesis, the speakers of a pre-centum/satem branching IE would have been a mixed EHG and Anatolian people with relatively minor CHG input. We have three samples likely to be substantially derived from this population and that bear the following CHG components - 10%, 11% and 0%. Especially as there is a further Anatolian branch of IE, I would say that Anatolian and Steppe populations are more likely candidates for being the major contributors to proto-IE than CHG, but who knows?

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Has anyone thought of the fact that PIE might have been adopted by the incoming step people ?

    This mixture of farmers aswell you seem to conclude all to easily that it was all from east to west.

    I have a rather different picture building up which points to WHG being responsable for pie.

    As far farming you dont know that they didnt just kidnap farmers and make them there slaves.

    I see a warlike maritime Mob of stone building brutes that did what they please, and they were eventually just outnumbered.

    Sounds like a blue print for the Romans

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    Assuming those evidences are true, then why must they mean a spread to the steppes essentially in the 5yh millennium BC and not before? There was CHG-like admixture even in Mesolithic EHG, I would not be totally surprised if a relevant part if the CHG affinities in the steppes (at least its southeastern portion) dated to even before the arrival of the Neolithic package there and increased even more after it. I think samples going from roughly 6000 to 4500 BC could help us a lot to determine what happened. By 4200 BC the steppes were already full of CHG and later there was IIRC only incremental increase of an admixture process that was already nearly complete by the Chalcolithic. That is why I think there is little more than wishful thinking in linking Maykop or any post-Leyla Tepe Caucasian culture to the steppe cultures that would participate in the origin of Yamnaya and CWC.
    I don't see any CHG in Samara 5,600 BC, nor in Ukraine up to 4,700 BC. The first time I've noticed it appearing is in Khvalynsk 4,600 BC, and at very variable levels (between 0 and 27%) making it look like a recent addition to the mix.

    CHG appears heavily in a Khvalynsk sample that best-fits with Eastern and Southern populations, but with North Caucasus more than Iranian, so I think a Western Caspian origin looks a good possibility.

    My calculations suggest four separate lasting early CHG pulses into mainland Europe, each relatively minor, but with cumulative effect -
    1. With the Neolithic expansion from Anatolia into North Central Europe - 6th millennium BC
    2. With the migration of Suvorovo from the southern Steppe into the Balkans/Carpathians - 5th millennium BC
    3. With a migration from the Western Caucasus (Maykop?) into the Balkans/Carpathians - 4th millennium BC
    4. With the migration of Yamnayans into the Eastern Baltic - around 3,000 BC
    (There were also pulses from Yamnaya further South, which I see as largely fizzling out)

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    Quote Originally Posted by O Neill View Post
    Has anyone thought of the fact that PIE might have been adopted by the incoming step people ?

    This mixture of farmers aswell you seem to conclude all to easily that it was all from east to west.

    I have a rather different picture building up which points to WHG being responsable for pie.

    As far farming you dont know that they didnt just kidnap farmers and make them there slaves.

    I see a warlike maritime Mob of stone building brutes that did what they please, and they were eventually just outnumbered.

    Sounds like a blue print for the Romans
    I don't think this can be entirely ruled out. After all, both the Neolithic Anatolians and the Chalcolithic Steppe people might have had to co-exist with WHG populations (which proliferated right across the likely early IE zone) until they acquired numerical supremacy, and might have adopted their languages as they did so.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pip View Post
    I don't think this can be entirely ruled out. After all, both the Neolithic Anatolians and the Chalcolithic Steppe people might have had to co-exist with WHG populations (which proliferated right across the likely early IE zone) until they acquired numerical supremacy, and might have adopted their languages as they did so.

    Correct

    Here a good paper from Igor Manzura

    https://www.academia.edu/9450078/STE..._WAS_COLONISED


    And about the now rightly famous Sredni Stog guy and the origin of the culture itself see Kotova:

    https://www.academia.edu/35556491/Th..._to_Eneolithic

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    Quote Originally Posted by hrvclv View Post
    I find it strange that those R1a People, up north in the forest steppe, should have taken to a geographically remote language just to please their neighbors and trade with them.

    They didn't, only clueless amateurs are still saying R1a had anything to do with the spread of IE languages. No R1a has ever been found in any ancient IE population. Not Anatolians, not Greeks. not Thracians (We have an elite aristocratic sample who was J2), not Bactrians, not Germanics. Germanics are an extreme example because they must have coexisted with R1a males for at least 1000 years before the migration period and yet you can't find any R1a Germanic at that time, they were not integrated until later:



    The Andronovo derived people(Turkics) have been ruling south Asia since 500BC with the Indo-Scythians and all subsequent Turkic invasions which is why they changed the Y-DNA profile of that region, obviously they couldn't impose their language because the region was already heavily populated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pip View Post
    Let's look at this question from a different angle - the East Ukraine outlier I6561 circa 4,000 BC with yDNA R1a-M417. It bears little autosomal resemblance to other early samples in that region, looking neither like Ukraine Neolithic nor Yamnayan. We know that multiple Suvorovo-Novodanilovka sites popped up in East Ukraine at around 4,000 BC. We know of other Suvorovo-Novodanilovka sites (some with earlier dates) in the Balkans/East Carpathians. We know that a similar autosomal mix to I6561 arose in two Bulgarian sites dated to 4,500 BC, and that the East Ukraine sites contained some Balkan-derived objects. There seems little doubt to me that I6561 was substantially an East Balkan/Carpathian Suvorovo-derived individual.

    We can see that this I6561 outlier has the same yDNA as both Corded Ware and Sintashta/Indo-Aryans, and an almost identical autosomal DNA mix to both Corded Ware and Sintashta. Its Suvorovo-Novodanilovka derived community shows little signs of yDNA or autosomal mixing with any other populations over the 1,500 years that elapsed before its Corded Ware and Sintashta derivatives emerged. It looks to have been largely self-contained and endogamous, with little sign of any colonisation, subjugation or dilution from other populations, and therefore seems unlikely to have adopted any language from outside its own community. All of its many derivative populations appear to use the satem branch of Indo-European, which does not seem to arise in other populations. I6561's community looks to me a very strong candidate for proto-satem IE.

    As I6561 appears to derive principally from admixed Suvorovo populations in the Balkans/Carpathians, and we know that some of these populations remained in these Western locations, it seems likely to me that these I6561-related Western-leaning populations with similar autosomal mixes were most likely (the predominantly western) proto-centum IE.

    Accordingly, the early/mid-5th millennium BC East Balkans/Carpathians looks a prime candidate for a pre-satem/centum branching of IE.

    Autosomally, this population appears to have been approximately 65:35 Steppe:EEF in satem Novodanilovka East Ukraine, and was likely to have been more weighted towards EEF in the centum Carpathians/Balkans. As the satem M417 populations in the East admixed very little with any other populations after 4,000 BC, I see no reason to assume that the centum M269 populations in the West would have admixed heavily either with EEF populations in the West before they spread their people and languages across Western Europe.

    Based on this hypothesis, the speakers of a pre-centum/satem branching IE would have been a mixed EHG and Anatolian people with relatively minor CHG input. We have three samples likely to be substantially derived from this population and that bear the following CHG components - 10%, 11% and 0%. Especially as there is a further Anatolian branch of IE, I would say that Anatolian and Steppe populations are more likely candidates for being the major contributors to proto-IE than CHG, but who knows?
    An issue with that is that archaeologists have usually interpreted Suvorovo-Novodanilovka as culturally mostly steppic, not a local development of Balkanic cultures, and have pointed out that its arrival in the archaeological record coincides with widespread destruction and displacement of the local cultures, followed by a gradual fusion. Those evidences suggest that Suvorovo-Novodanilovka came from the steppe and linked it with the Balkanic cultural horizon, not the other way around.

    I am also extremely wary of an interpretation of the genetic data that rests on the assumption that this Suvorovo-Novodanilovka people spread from Western Europe BB to Central Asian Sintashta and became that numerous and widespread, not seldom through heavily warlike social ways, without any admixture whatsoever with other people, not even females of the populations already settled where they migrated to, so that even 2000 years later they would still be autosomally almost identical to their ancestors millennia earlier, indicating then total lack of admixture and complete genetic replacement. That is possible, but I doubt it was likely to have happened that way. I think there is a reason why most scholars prefer to investigate alternative hypotheses.

    By the way, could you post the results of the models and calculations you have used to derive those conclusions? That would be interesting to us all here, especially to understand the evidences better, as well as the proxy populations you have used.

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    The idea that a language other than Indo-European can be attributed to R1a populations is farcical and should not be discussed in any forum that claims to be scientific. The preponderance of R1b in the Atlantic Fringe can be attributed best to founder effects in sparsely populated lands after an original small R1b-L51 community living in what is now Germany was Indo-Europeanized by Corded Ware migrants, and the Balkan communities are the result of a substantial native population adopting the language of their conquerors; the Greeks and Thracians appear on the historical stage over a thousand years after the Indo-European invasions of their areas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by O Neill View Post
    Has anyone thought of the fact that PIE might have been adopted by the incoming step people ?

    This mixture of farmers aswell you seem to conclude all to easily that it was all from east to west.

    I have a rather different picture building up which points to WHG being responsable for pie.

    As far farming you dont know that they didnt just kidnap farmers and make them there slaves.

    I see a warlike maritime Mob of stone building brutes that did what they please, and they were eventually just outnumbered.

    Sounds like a blue print for the Romans
    That is quite unlikely due to the very nature of the IE expansion throughout a very wide and genetically varied territory and in multiple waves, not in just one wave, let alone only towards the West (Europe west of the Balkans). When PIE appeared, the territory around which it was more probably spoken was inhabited mainly by EHG and mostly ANF EEF since millenia earlier, and Anatolian farmers had arrived there as the economically and socially stronger society with a much higher population growth, with almost negligible admixture with the WHG until the Middle-Late Neolithic. In encounters between more advanced farmers and hunter-gatherers throughout the world, the language of the farmers always prevailed.

    PIE speakers spread their language or rather daughter languages to PIE in a huge stretch of land that certainly did not speak a uniform language or even language family, so if some of them adopted the language of other people some other steppe peoples, mainly those who expanded more to the esst or south, would have retained their original language, and not spread the IE of the "maritime mob".

    Ultimately what you think looks just like wishful thinking and a speculation without any solid evidence to base it on. You seem to really want to derive everything, from language to civilization, to the supposedly very ancient WHG maritime "empire" of the North Sea region with their megaliths and so on. But PIE clearly did not have much at all to do with what was going much to the west, it was too late to have adopted a homogeneous language from that "maritime mob" (the language of whom would certainly have split by then just like it happened with Latin), and for it to have been originally a common dialect continuum it must have started in a pretty smaller and definite area. Even if that "maritime WHG empire" had indeed existed, there is nothing to suggest it had anything to do with the IE expansion in the Bronze Age. Different timelines and historic processes. Much of the IE expansion in fact seems to have been very "inland", not at all very related to maritime expansions from the coasts.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Let's probably wait of big Suvorovo-Novodanilovka samples before having any conclusions about those cultures. Yamnaya was R1b and not R1a, Mariupol was I2a2 and not R1b. Maykop was G and J and not R1b. What if Suvorovo individuals from east balkans turns out to be, let's sayin' G2a2a? I'm still fond of the fact that ancestry must been, especially in the case of EEF and CHG being female mediated, because looking at all those regional cultures that have different y-dna, what exactly are the odds that almost all samples in all studies should be the exemple of a regional founder effect? How exactly Wang thinks CHG increase into Steppe without any south caucasian y-dna lineages? It's very unlikely that we only have samples from founder effects isn't?

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joey37 View Post
    The idea that a language other than Indo-European can be attributed to R1a populations is farcical and should not be discussed
    Just sort the populations of central Asia by R1a
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_...and_North_Asia
    You'll get dozens of Turkic groups at the top from all over Eurasia.



    How come there are not dozens of IE speaking groups at the top instead?

    Besides the original distribution of R1a is pretty much the Turkic world:


    Before the Muscovy expansions even the European side was full of Turkic speaking Khanates.

    So actually it's pretty easy to attribute a language other than Indo-European to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saetrus View Post
    Ancient DNA shows that from Bactria to Italy the Indo-European world used to be a genetic continuum centered around the south Caucasus


    Only the most fringe regions of the IE world like northern Europe were outliers.
    This graph probably just shows that from Afghanistan to Mediterranea, Steppe component became a minority superstrat over an already CHG superstrat over an EEF strat. Wich is basically what is already shown in multiple samples from prehistoric Greece and Italy. There is no Northern IE genetic continuum and Southern IE genetic continuum. Steppe component replaced more easily peoples north of the 45° parralel north, than south of it. Why? That's the question for another study.

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