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Thread: The postmodern and handsome British

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    that is a good example

    Romole e Remo never existed, it is a myth, it is fiction in the first place.
    I wonder then why people accept the myth but are so sensitive about the colour of the actor who's playing it.

    It's simple marketing.
    A movie is made for a certain audience, and they'll look for a person the audience can identify with.
    A movie is an interpretation, it does not claim to tell the truth and nothing but the truth.
    No movie of Romulus and Remus has ever been made before. FYI, most of the "mythic" elements, like being suckled by a she wolf, are not included. Rather, he is placing the story in a very realistic context of shepherds trying to found a new village. What the director is doing, according to reports, is quite complex. It's not some nationalistic origin story.

    Such movies have certainly been made in northern European contexts, of course. Look at the movie based on the Beowulf poem, or all the Thor incarnations.


    What if an actor like Daniele Liotti had played one of the lead characters in Beowulf, or Joe Manganiello played Thor or Vercingetorix, for that matter? Personally, Manganiello would certainly appeal to me more than Helmsworth.:) However, there would have been an outcry, and you know it, including from you. Would you think, well, it's just a myth, so who cares? I doubt it.





    Now, as you say, a lot of this is marketing, and knowing your audience, but not all of it. I think you'd object if Manganiello played that character, even if it was an Italian movie marketed mainly to Italians and Southern Europeans.

    Also, just generally, how much suspension of disbelief should a director demand of the audience, no matter the nature of that audience? Are Anglo and Northern European audiences so clueless or so tied to Nordicist myths about Romans that they'd have a problem with Romans who look like Italians? That's sad if true.

    Also, in this day and age, movies are international. It's not the 60s. I think a little verisimilitude would be welcome. American movies engender criticism as well as high box office, you know.

    There's one auteur who tries to do it right to the extent possible, and that's Mel Gibson. The actor who he cast to play Jesus in "The Passion of the Christ" was altered to look more "East Med", and the other actors were chosen with an eye to what contemporary Judeans and Romans would have looked like. It all contributed to making a better movie, a masterpiece, imo.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm_-kNaPsp4

    Likewise, in making a movie about Amerindians, he did a novel thing: he cast Amerindians, not Italians, as Hollywood movies used to do. It's a very good film imo, if not for everyone.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXuwjdQx924


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    [QUOTE = bicicleur; 566890] que es un buen ejemplo
    Romole e Remo nunca existió, es un mito, es ficción en primer lugar.
    Entonces me pregunto por qué la gente acepta el mito pero es tan sensible sobre el color del actor que lo interpreta.
    Es marketing simple.
    Una película está hecha para una audiencia determinada, y buscarán una persona con la que la audiencia pueda identificarse.
    Una película es una interpretación, no pretende decir la verdad y nada más que la verdad. [/ CITA]

    Carmen also never existed, if the color of the skin does not matter and yet this version is called Carmen Jones. There are many versions of Carmen, and also as Spanish and as for many Spaniards the Opera Carmen does not consider it ours, nor recognize that history nor the characters, it is an invention of a Frenchman and has nothing to do with our culture.

    <font style="vertical-align: inherit;"><font style="vertical-align: inherit;">

    From a European vision that until recently has been homogeneous and not multi cultural as the North American this film could have been simply called Carmen, but evidently the Hollywood cinema is structured taking into account the color and skin tones. In Carmen Jones perhaps the purpose was the promotion or visualization of the opera singers black. So in the case of films of British history, Romans and Vikings and all played by Anglo-Saxons is not something innocent and by chance and more when it is a cinema that reaches the whole world or almost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    No movie of Romulus and Remus has ever been made before. FYI, most of the "mythic" elements, like being suckled by a she wolf, are not included. Rather, he is placing the story in a very realistic context of shepherds trying to found a new village. What the director is doing, according to reports, is quite complex. It's not some nationalistic origin story.

    Such movies have certainly been made in northern European contexts, of course. Look at the movie based on the Beowulf poem, or all the Thor incarnations.


    What if an actor like Daniele Liotti had played one of the lead characters in Beowulf, or Joe Manganiello played Thor or Vercingetorix, for that matter? Personally, Manganiello would certainly appeal to me more than Helmsworth.:) However, there would have been an outcry, and you know it, including from you. Would you think, well, it's just a myth, so who cares? I doubt it.





    Now, as you say, a lot of this is marketing, and knowing your audience, but not all of it. I think you'd object if Manganiello played that character, even if it was an Italian movie marketed mainly to Italians and Southern Europeans.

    Also, just generally, how much suspension of disbelief should a director demand of the audience, no matter the nature of that audience? Are Anglo and Northern European audiences so clueless or so tied to Nordicist myths about Romans that they'd have a problem with Romans who look like Italians? That's sad if true.

    Also, in this day and age, movies are international. It's not the 60s. I think a little verisimilitude would be welcome. American movies engender criticism as well as high box office, you know.

    There's one auteur who tries to do it right to the extent possible, and that's Mel Gibson. The actor who he cast to play Jesus in "The Passion of the Christ" was altered to look more "East Med", and the other actors were chosen with an eye to what contemporary Judeans and Romans would have looked like. It all contributed to making a better movie, a masterpiece, imo.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm_-kNaPsp4

    Likewise, in making a movie about Amerindians, he did a novel thing: he cast Amerindians, not Italians, as Hollywood movies used to do. It's a very good film imo, if not for everyone.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXuwjdQx924
    So, you think movie directors are not doing their job properly in selecting the right cast for their audience?

    I must say, I'm not into movies, if've seen very few.
    Like Beowulf, I don't know what you're talking about, I even don't know the story.

    I haven't seen "The Passion of the Christ" , don't know it. I have seen Braveheart, didn't like it, he glorified the main character to much, which he played himself, and the story is very inaccurate, allthough he tried to make it look genuine.

    But maybe you're right, because I'm not an expert, and I'm not interested, because I know, they are just stories, the truth doesn't sell.
    It's a bussiness, and with very high budgets.
    The producers have to know what they are doing, and still it is a gamble.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    So, you think movie directors are not doing their job properly in selecting the right cast for their audience?

    I must say, I'm not into movies, if've seen very few.
    Like Beowulf, I don't know what you're talking about, I even don't know the story.

    I haven't seen "The Passion of the Christ" , don't know it. I have seen Braveheart, didn't like it, he glorified the main character to much, which he played himself, and the story is very inaccurate, allthough he tried to make it look genuine.

    But maybe you're right, because I'm not an expert, and I'm not interested, because I know, they are just stories, the truth doesn't sell.
    It's a bussiness, and with very high budgets.
    The producers have to know what they are doing, and still it is a gamble.
    It depends. What is the goal? Making as much money as possible by using "big name" stars who will pull in movie goers, or making the most accurate depiction of a time and of people in that place and time?

    I ultimately didn't care that they picked Russell Crowe to play a Spaniard/Roman in "The Gladiator". It was a great story, well made, as it should have been, given what it cost, with good enough acting, and a message that appealed to me, so, it drew me in regardless, but I certainly did have to work on my suspension of disbelief for a bit.

    "The Passion of the Christ" is, imo, artistically a superior movie.

    Take a look at the you tube clips. It should give you an idea.

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    But Gladiator pretends to be Hispanic in the plot but finally it was not. Yes, his wife was an Iberian, when he is training his daughter in the equestrian arts, who then kill them. I've seen it for a thousand years, but I remember it that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    It depends. What is the goal? Making as much money as possible by using "big name" stars who will pull in movie goers, or making the most accurate depiction of a time and of people in that place and time?

    I ultimately didn't care that they picked Russell Crowe to play a Spaniard/Roman in "The Gladiator". It was a great story, well made, as it should have been, given what it cost, with good enough acting, and a message that appealed to me, so, it drew me in regardless, but I certainly did have to work on my suspension of disbelief for a bit.

    "The Passion of the Christ" is, imo, artistically a superior movie.

    Take a look at the you tube clips. It should give you an idea.
    This is so far and above any of the usual Anglo films depicting the Christ story, partly because of his sheer artistry, but partly also because it looked REAL.

    It almost got me back to Mass. :)



    The previous all Italian version scandalized people but it was also masterful, imo.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzT6Lwj1yhA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    But Gladiator pretends to be Hispanic in the plot but finally it was not. Yes, his wife was an Iberian, when he is training his daughter in the equestrian arts, who then kill them. I've seen it for a thousand years, but I remember it that way.
    Sorry, I don't remember that. Maybe I just missed it.

    The movie was full of Anglo people playing Romans however. Joaquin Phoenix was a little more believable.

    As for the black version of Carmen, I have no problem with it. Let's say that people in Africa want to put on a Shakespeare play. Are they supposed to import Anglo actors? What I object to is pretending that some of these casting choices are accurate phenotypically.

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    Interpreters of historical films.


















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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    It is a relax and a tranquility without an abuse of the blue eyes that both appear on the screen in Romans, Vikings and history of U.K. Isabel l already knows with the white face ordering to kill Maria Tudor. They are a few decades of too many Anglo-Saxon blue eyes in historical cinema.
    Now you're being as prejudiced as you accuse them of being. NOT COOL, and not acceptable on this forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    It depends. What is the goal? Making as much money as possible by using "big name" stars who will pull in movie goers, or making the most accurate depiction of a time and of people in that place and time?

    I ultimately didn't care that they picked Russell Crowe to play a Spaniard/Roman in "The Gladiator". It was a great story, well made, as it should have been, given what it cost, with good enough acting, and a message that appealed to me, so, it drew me in regardless, but I certainly did have to work on my suspension of disbelief for a bit.

    "The Passion of the Christ" is, imo, artistically a superior movie.

    Take a look at the you tube clips. It should give you an idea.
    the movie bussiness is about selling, not about accuracy

    I liked to watch Vikings, and after a while I went to check some historical details.
    To my surprise they were correct.
    But history does not give a complete picture, many links are missing.
    Then there are also some myths interwoven in the serie.
    And when you watch these parts, it is slightly amusing and you immeadiately know it can't be true.
    I like it when they don't pretend.

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    The opposite is about to happen with Cleopatra. They are supposedly going to cast her as an African or at least North African woman. That is totally objectionable. She was a Macedonian.

    I don't like when they re-write history.

    This is a totally political move.




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    I'm afraid re-writing history has been done as long as history exists.
    It seems they'll extend the effort.

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    Why there are no movies about Franks, anyway?
    Frankish Empire/Holy Roman Empire was the strongest in Europe.
    No movies about AngloSaxons either. Or movies depicting AngloSaxons in a bad light.
    Lots of movies about Normans, nothing mentioned that some French Celtic warriors joined the Normans.
    Lots of prejudice, in Hollywood movies.
    Lots of Vikings migrated to British Isles because they feared Holy Roman Empire.

    AngloSaxons were certainly more lawful and organized than the Vikings.
    Nothing mentioned about the fact that Norse people, Vikings included were fishing a lot in the North Sea.
    Raising goats and pigs is a Viking activity, but fishing code in the North Sea, is not.
    That is a very strange "logic".
    No movie about the Viking that sailed first time in North America, either.
    No movie about NorseGaels and them settling Iceland.
    In Hollywood movies, unlike in the real history, British Isles Celts and AngloSaxons need to be enemies with the Vikings.
    Hollywood Geniuses did not found out yet about Brian Boru, the legendary Irish king,lol, that defeated some Vikings army.

    About the Viking series:
    Nothing mentioned about Southern Britain Celtic people, like Bretons or Welsh people.
    Lol.

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    ^^^^
    The postmodern and handsome Vikings in the cinema always win, but in Al-Andalus they were defeated.




    The fact that the Vikings discovered America is tiresome. This man of photography presents documentaries, and the treatment of everything related to the discovery and conquest of America by the Spanish is quite negative and yet the treatment of the Vikings is idealized.
    In these documentaries, very Amerindian actors are chosen to represent the soldiers and historical figures in the conquest and discovery of America and yet when they do it with actors to illustrate about the Portuguese in America, the casting of actors is totally adjusted, Why in one case and in the other, no?
    People come out in those documentaries that go crazy looking for Chinese boats to show that the Chinese arrived before the Spaniards or stones with engraved runes to show that the Vikings came to America before the Spaniards, logically never get results.


    Map of the universities founded by the Spanish in America and the Philippines. Why does that man in the photo above never talk about this in his documentaries?

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    Is not post-modern, is just Hollywood nonsense.
    Was not some movie at Hollywood about some hero from Scotland,where he appears with his face painted in current flag of Scotland :) ?

    There is a great confusion between Picts which were already assimilated by the Gaelic Scots when William Wallace actually lived and Gaelic Scots.
    Anyway highly doubt there is any historical account about having William Wallace in some battle with his face painted white and blue.
    And that is not the only inaccuracy from BraveHeart, are more.
    Some person found some inaccuracies in BraveHeart.
    https://thehande.wordpress.com/2011/...ing-the-movie/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    imo this viking stuff and also the romans sell because the main target group in america and europe, mainly america, like these groups since they are part of the old romanticized european history. and because they are the most popular people in america. why not make a movie about some celts, or germanics fighting romans? because in america they are unciviliced barbarian loosers compared to rome. or cowards compared to the vikings. slavs? those filthy communists. the reason why they only show romans in britain with anglo actors is because they want to make them as "european" as possible in the eyes of their audience or as similar as possible to their audience so anglos. this picture would not look so good if the romans were not europeans but just romans with people from many different regions including people from regions that do not have a good reputation anymore in the west.
    its the same with the ancient greeks. these people have to be "europeans" simply because of how strong their influence on modern europe is. maybe i'm just making things up and they just try to take the most popular actors that are available and just do not really care about historical accuracy in this regard.
    but it's everywhere the same. in china the movies about chinese history are more popular than those about romans or vikings.
    Russia was founded by some Swedish Vikings. Search about Rurik, to see the real history, not what Hollywood knows :) .
    Slavs were allied to the Vikings, fighting Frankish Empire/Holy Roman Empire. About 800-900 AD.
    Some Vikings were fighting as elite guards for the king of the Eastern Roman Empire, "the Varangian Guard".
    First king of the Central Europe Slavs was Samo, a Frankish warrior and merchant.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samo
    Celts were a group of ethnicities, with British Celts as a separate group. They were 2nd civilized, after Roman Empire and Greeks, in Europe.
    Had soap, were having strong agriculture, cattle and sheep raising, making beer, had fine blacksmiths, jewelry, were shaving etc.
    You cannot call the Celts just some "uncivilized barbarians", when they actually had razors and very fine drinking recipients.
    Just check the archaeological discoveries related to the Celts.

    Vikings were actually most uncivilized, from Europe, in those times, together with the Baltic nations.
    Vikings were actually living mostly from fishing, did not practiced too much agriculture or raising animals.
    Irish had also pirates (they raided to the cities of other British Celts, not so much unity between them), before the Viking Age.
    Etc.

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    I think the Film 'Mongol' (2007 )about Genghis Khan was one of the best historical movies I had seen. It was made by Russia, Germany and Kazakhstan, and filmed in Chinese 'Inner Mongolia', and Kazakhstan, even though it was subtitled it was very good.

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