North Italians are genetically closer to French, Germans than to South Italians.

Georgewalley

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N_Italian_D

42.6 Mediterranean
41 Atlantic_Baltic
14.5 West_Asian
1.7 Red_Sea

q5aIpHI.jpg


German_D:

63.7 Atlantic_Baltic
26.8 Mediterranean
9.3 West_Asian
0.2 Red_Sea

uOaIDui.jpg


French

55.8 Atlantic_Baltic
36 Mediterranean
7.5 West_Asian
0.2 Red_Sea

18pm3kc.jpg


Sicilian:

iSxXclv.jpg


45.5 Mediterranean
25.4 West_Asian
22.4 Atlantic_Baltic
5.3 Red_Sea
1 Sub_Saharan
0.2 Paleoafrican
 
When you compare two populations you cannot omit one of them.
You're comparing North vs South Italians, none of the charts you posted has South Italy (except for Sicily).
It’s bizarre.

Edit..
ps it’s getting boring now, I know what you're doing.
You guys never stop.

Edit..
From 23andme:
... Northern Italians have stronger genetic ties to Northern Europe than do southern Italians, who tend to share a rich genetic heritage with Greece...

There you go, Knock yourself out.
 
Last edited:
I’m a relative newcomer to this. What is he doing? Pardon my ignorance
 
So what if they are closer to Germans? Is having more Anatolian Bronze Age and Iran Neo ancestry in the case of southern italians and Greeks such a horrible curse? Is it something to really be ashamed of?
 
I’m a relative newcomer to this. What is he doing? Pardon my ignorance

By skipping the chart of Southern Italy to make its point, It proves that it wants to exaggerate the differences with a Northward Bias.

imo It’s a Anti-South-Italianist and partially Italophobic.

I’m moving on.
 
By skipping the chart of Southern Italy to make its point, It proves that it wants to exaggerate the differences with a Northward Bias.

imo It’s a Anti-South-Italianist and partially Italophobic.

I’m moving on.

Well said. I hope many north italians will not be attracted by this crap. I wonder when it will end. Better address these people to NORDgenica. There they will find what they are searching for.
 
there will always be differences within countries

catalans v castilians in spain

l'oil v l'oc in france

tosk v gheg in albania

bavarians v low germans in germany

england v scotland in britain

croatians v serbs

tyrolese v austrians in austria

but , as in previous posts......who cares where the origins are from as long as it is the truth .................who is too know what it was like 1000 or 2000 years ago
 
@Sile
I guess you're right. There are many countries with significant genetic differences. Still, the cultural affinities may be strong, and that's what matters more for a nation, yes?

Edit..
From 23andme:
... Northern Italians have stronger genetic ties to Northern Europe than do southern Italians, who tend to share a rich genetic heritage with Greece...
Well, saying "Northern Italians have stronger genetic ties to Northern Europeans than DO Southern Italians" is different from saying Northern Italians have stronger genetic ties to Northern Europeans than TO Southern Italians, no?
So, I guess we could also say Northern Italians have stronger genetic ties TO Southern Italians than TO Northern Europeans, at least according to those maps of similarity based on Eurogenes K36.
 
I regret it, but I have to be honest and factual here. The differences between northern and southern Italians are greater than those between regions in any other European country. We have incredible diversity. In shows up in fst analysis and all other sorts of ways. Ralph and Coop et al is instructive reading. On some level the OP is correct.

On another level, while there is a genetic break in Italy south of Rome found as early as Novembre et al, they also found a genetic break at the ALPS. We are all Italian.

THE IMPORTANT THING IS: Who gives a damn?

The only people who give a damn are Nordicists who think Europeans should be rated according to the amount of Southern or Southeastern ancestry they have. They've had to accept that Anatolian Neolithic is OK, because it is present in high percentages in all Europeans, but "Iran Neo" is somehow disgusting. This is a component found in people who built some of the greatest civilizations the world has ever seen. They also forget that Iran Neo is closely related to CHG, and represents half of the Indo-European ancestry they think is so superior. However, intelligent and logical discourse is not the hallmark of these people.

Just ignore these t-rolls and then maybe they'll go back to more congenial sites like that pit theapricity, or Skadi, or Stormfront, or even, sadly, anthrogenica, where they can get their socks to talk to each other and pretend it's all academic.

I guess the hints from the upcoming ancient dna paper from Italy has them all shook. Too bad.

Just please ignore him. What they want is attention to fill their empty and dysfunctional lives.


However, such an obvious attempt to be provocative and sow discord merits an infraction, and he will get it.
 
wow, maybe the guy only had sicilian admixture graphs in hand... ? judgements are here sometimes worse on persons than supremacists about "low peoples". Not so different.
 
I regret it, but I have to be honest and factual here. The differences between northern and southern Italians are greater than those between regions in any other European country. We have incredible diversity. In shows up in fst analysis and all other sorts of ways. Ralph and Coop et al is instructive reading. On some level the OP is correct.

On another level, while there is a genetic break in Italy south of Rome found as early as Novembre et al, they also found a genetic break at the ALPS. We are all Italian.

THE IMPORTANT THING IS: Who gives a damn?

The only people who give a damn are Nordicists who think Europeans should be rated according to the amount of Southern or Southeastern ancestry they have. They've had to accept that Anatolian Neolithic is OK, because it is present in high percentages in all Europeans, but "Iran Neo" is somehow disgusting. This is a component found in people who built some of the greatest civilizations the world has ever seen. They also forget that Iran Neo is closely related to CHG, and represents half of the Indo-European ancestry they think is so superior. However, intelligent and logical discourse is not the hallmark of these people.

Just ignore these t-rolls and then maybe they'll go back to more congenial sites like that pit theapricity, or Skadi, or Stormfront, or even, sadly, anthrogenica, where they can get their socks to talk to each other and pretend it's all academic.

I guess the hints from the upcoming ancient dna paper from Italy has them all shook. Too bad.

Just please ignore him. What they want is attention to fill their empty and dysfunctional lives.


However, such an obvious attempt to be provocative and sow discord merits an infraction, and he will get it.

None regard Iran Neolithic as "disgusting" I think it's the first time I heard somebody saying such bizarre comment since I've been here. We're not talking here about inferiority or superiority. Some people tend to romanticize some genetic components, but science tends to not focus on emotional bias or some historical fantasy. My point was to highlight that just because a group of people who share a modern linguistic and partially cultural identity it doesn't equal with being genetically closer relatedness just like Utah White Americans and African Americans may share many linguistic and cultural traits it doesn't equal with being genetically closer related, in the case between North and South Italians we share a sharper difference than between Andalusian Spanish and North-Eastern Spaniards.
North Italians seem to have a stronger pull towards Bell Beaker type of ancestry pulling them towards continental europe where as South Italians have a stronger pull towards the Aegean and the East Mediterranean making them genetically the closest to Aegean Greeks, Western Jews and Cypriots.
 
None regard Iran Neolithic as "disgusting" I think it's the first time I heard somebody saying such bizarre comment since I've been here. We're not talking here about inferiority or superiority. Some people tend to romanticize some genetic components, but science tends to not focus on emotional bias or some historical fantasy. My point was to highlight that just because a group of people who share a modern linguistic and partially cultural identity it doesn't equal with being genetically closer relatedness just like Utah White Americans and African Americans may share many linguistic and cultural traits it doesn't equal with being genetically closer related, in the case between North and South Italians we share a sharper difference than between Andalusian Spanish and North-Eastern Spaniards.
North Italians seem to have a stronger pull towards Bell Beaker type of ancestry pulling them towards continental europe where as South Italians have a stronger pull towards the Aegean and the East Mediterranean making them genetically the closest to Aegean Greeks, Western Jews and Cypriots.

We know that you create these threads in bad faith.

Moreover, Italians are comfortable with what makes them unique from one another. I think you are projecting some kind of autophobia, and you should work on more constructive ways of dealing with it.
 
When you compare two populations you cannot omit one of them.
You're comparing North vs South Italians, none of the charts you posted has South Italy (except for Sicily).
It’s bizarre.

Edit..
ps it’s getting boring now, I know what you're doing.
You guys never stop.

Edit..
From 23andme:
... Northern Italians have stronger genetic ties to Northern Europe than do southern Italians, who tend to share a rich genetic heritage with Greece...

There you go, Knock yourself out.

I don't put any emotional attachment in this thread. Simply I made a statement based on the admixture chart I saw. Nothing wrong with being closer to North Europe or Greece. What I was originally intended to point out how Northern Italy have a highly rich basal Corded Ware related heritage which makes them closer to Central and Western Europe and some regions like Friulli, parts of Veneto are even closer to some Northern European groups than to Deep South Italians like Sicilians and Calabrese.
 
wow, maybe the guy only had sicilian admixture graphs in hand... ? judgements are here sometimes worse on persons than supremacists about "low peoples". Not so different.

You haven't been here long enough to make that judgment. I suggest you find the posts written here by people like Drac and Drac II, a compatriot of yours. It might open your eyes.
 

I feel sorry to what you have faced. It's like people took off all darkness in their heart. Unfortunately, you will face this attitude all the time in this forum. This is unpleasant reality of here.

My kindly suggest that
1-There are many topic and knowledge in the forum. Firstly read of them before starting topic and probably similar topic was opened before, check it, instead of opening new topic.
2-If you have statement/point, support it as much as you could with reliably sources, It shouldn't be like your first post.
 
@Angela, so the OP must be treated like Drac as he posts X unpleasant matters for X people??? and what, if Drac is Catalan as me may I go to suffer the same treatment?? You are projecting into this forum your own paranoids, a pity, it's less free now. Ok, you will win in this way, surely you wish I mute forever, and others, of course, no more unpleasant theories and thinkings, science will be like you please then, even if not true.
 
@Angela, so the OP must be treated like Drac as he posts X unpleasant matters for X people??? and what, if Drac is Catalan as me may I go to suffer the same treatment?? You are projecting into this forum your own paranoids, a pity, it's less free now. Ok, you will win in this way, surely you wish I mute forever, and others, of course, no more unpleasant theories and thinkings, science will be like you please then, even if not true.

You post tons of material which is completely off the wall, imo, and I very rarely comment. Post what you want.

Of course I don't judge you by Drac. What I was trying to say is that if you read him you would understand people like Whalley better, and what they're up to...

If you haven't caught on to what this t-roll is doing then so be it. It's a reality. You don't see how many socks who have been banned are back under sock accounts. I am. You don't recognize the posts that have virtually been lifted from theapricity or even worse sites. I do.

What he posted is old hat. Anyone who knows Italian genetics knows the more nuanced facts, and they've been discussed here ad nauseam. Again, if you'd been here longer, you would know that. Do a site search of Italian genetics. If you knew the anthro world better, you'd know what I'm talking about, but clearly you don't. Fine. Stay ignorant and put it all down to my "paranoia".

You're also being extremely illogical. Censorship is when people stop other people from posting things. Have I deleted this thread, or the original post? Here it is for you to vent about. Have I ever stopped you from posting, or TBONTB, or any of numerous others? Stop being so disingenuous. The only threads and posts I delete are the ones full of insane rants or things approaching hate speech or supra-nationalist propaganda against other ethnic groups or disgusting insults, often extremely sexist in nature, and usually directed at me, and I stand by them all. If you want to read those kinds of things go elsewhere.
 
wow, maybe the guy only had sicilian admixture graphs in hand... ? judgements are here sometimes worse on persons than supremacists about "low peoples". Not so different.

That’s a stretch.
Remember this, the next time someone compares your population with another, and ”conveniently” skip a step.
 
if you could prove such skip it would be more convenient than point your gun first.
 

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