Thraco-Illyrian and Sarmatian connection with Slavs

[NICK123]

Slavs are the most numerous ethnic and linguistic group in Europe inhabiting about half of European continent and significant part of Asia. These territories roughly correspond to territories formerly inhabited by Thraco-Illyrians in the south and Schytian-Sarmatians in the north.
Slavs start appearing in 5th century without previous known history out of Polish/Ukrainian swamps being people without civilisation, or warrior history and mighty Sarmatians just vanish at this time into thin air.
Slavs then move down south to Balkans and Thracian-Illyrians just vanish of the face of the earth without putting up a single battle.
Today we have Slavs living on Sarmatian lands with dominant haplogroup R1a, and Slavs living on Thraco-Illyrian lands with dominant haplogroup I2.
How and why did Slavs when moving from north eastern Europe separate specific haplogroup for the trip clear of local genetic addmixture , left the most fertile land in Europe, passed over second most fertile land of Europe, wiped out the most hostile warrior nations and settled in most barren mountain regions where they are scraping for living to this day.
Slavic origin remains unknown and disappearance of Thracians, Illyrians and Sarmatians a great mystery.
Both these phenomenons correspond to same point in history and same territory.
Slavic genetic map between R1a and I2 roughly corresponds to Sarmatia and Thraco-Illyria map. I think this is becoming valid point for discussion.
I am not one of those people who has all the answers and that is why i like to question everything.

 

[NICK123]

Serbian medieval state was called Raska (Rashka) derived from the word Ras. Citizens would have been called Raseni or Rashani.
Etruscans were according to Dionysius of Halicarnassus named Rasenna or Rasna in their own language derived from their word "Rast" meanining people, later morphing into Trusi, Etruscan and Tuscan.
Rast would literally translate to "grow" in modern Serbo-Croatian language. "Pri-rast-aj" would mean new generation that is born and it makes perfect sense in relation to "rast" for people in general.
Other form of this is name RUS used by Slavs as well as the Vikings. Best example is connection between house of Rurik and Kiyevan Rus.
Some scholars believe that name Thracian is actually Greek deformation of Rascian. In english this word survived as RACE identifying specific race rather than unifying term.
Civilisation that existed in Europe before Rome and Greece could have identified itself simply by Rasni or the Race before competing civilisations required more specific term. Simply meaning the people.
Of course no modern nation is equivalent to ancient civilisations as they are all put together in cultural and genetic layers but some heritage is always preserved.

 

[Tutkun Arnaut]

Slavs are the most numerous ethnic and linguistic group in Europe inhabiting about half of European continent and significant part of Asia. These territories roughly correspond to territories formerly inhabited by Thraco-Illyrians in the south and Schytian-Sarmatians in the north.
Slavs start appearing in 5th century without previous known history out of Polish/Ukrainian swamps being people without civilisation, or warrior history and mighty Sarmatians just vanish at this time into thin air.
Slavs then move down south to Balkans and Thracian-Illyrians just vanish of the face of the earth without putting up a single battle.
Today we have Slavs living on Sarmatian lands with dominant haplogroup R1a, and Slavs living on Thraco-Illyrian lands with dominant haplogroup I2.
How and why did Slavs when moving from north eastern Europe separate specific haplogroup for the trip clear of local genetic addmixture , left the most fertile land in Europe, passed over second most fertile land of Europe, wiped out the most hostile warrior nations and settled in most barren mountain regions where they are scraping for living to this day.
Slavic origin remains unknown and disappearance of Thracians, Illyrians and Sarmatians a great mystery.
Both these phenomenons correspond to same point in history and same territory.
Slavic genetic map between R1a and I2 roughly corresponds to Sarmatia and Thraco-Illyria map. I think this is becoming valid point for discussion.
I am not one of those people who has all the answers and that is why i like to question everything.

you have consumed more than enough Serbian propaganda. Illyrians did not disappear. Some of their tribes exist. Albanians are their descendants. Thracians disappeared. Caution with Serbian propaganda. Its toxic.

 

[markod]

I2a-Din has its highest basal diversity between Ukraine and Souh-Eastern Poland, the region roughly corresponding to the Slavic homeland. It's most likely Slavic.

 

[NICK123]

I agree it is important to rise above propaganda and chauvinism regardless if it is Serbian, Albanian, Austrian, Greek or Vatican's.
My favourite academic is Dr. Goran Saric, Croatian historian and Catholic doctor of theology.
There are just so many flaws in every theory out there including official Habsburg-Albanian one.
For example when Romans invaded Illyria first fortified town captured was Serbinum.
That rises serious question about important Illyrian town being named after people who invaded 5 centuries latter.
Herodotus called Thracians second most numerous people in known world and they just dissapeared.
Interesting thing about them is their cult of Sabaizos the Thracian horsemen with symbolism of three finger salute. Same three finger salute is still used by Serbian nationalists today without good explanation why.
Horseman himself is very similar to St. George used on Russian coat of arms.
Physical description of Illyrians is to be very tall people.
We find this trait prominent in Dalmatia and Herzegovina with highest percentage of dinaric I2 haplogroup.
Albanians on the contrary being among Europe's shortest people according to DR. Saric.

 

[Tutkun Arnaut]

I agree it is important to rise above propaganda and chauvinism regardless if it is Serbian, Albanian, Austrian, Greek or Vatican's.
My favourite academic is Dr. Goran Saric, Croatian historian and Catholic doctor of theology.
There are just so many flaws in every theory out there including official Habsburg-Albanian one.
For example when Romans invaded Illyria first fortified town captured was Serbinum.
That rises serious question about important Illyrian town being named after people who invaded 5 centuries latter.
Herodotus called Thracians second most numerous people in known world and they just dissapeared.
Interesting thing about them is their cult of Sabaizos the Thracian horsemen with symbolism of three finger salute. Same three finger salute is still used by Serbian nationalists today without good explanation why.
Horseman himself is very similar to St. George used on Russian coat of arms.
Physical description of Illyrians is to be very tall people.
We find this trait prominent in Dalmatia and Herzegovina with highest percentage of dinaric I2 haplogroup.
Albanians on the contrary being among Europe's shortest people according to DR. Saric.

I don't know Dr Saric! I know reality. Reality is Albania has two height areas! South Albania with an average male height of 174 cm. North Albania and Kosovo average male height of 181 cm. So North Albania is not short. If you take a look at the map where South Slavs unfortunately live in the Balkan's, they are tall only in the areas previously inhabited by Illyrians, and average every where else. That alone means that genes of being tall were Illyrian. had they being Slavic genes of tallness, Macedonia would have been tall nation, Bulgaria also, Romania which has mostly Slavic genes,. So if you meet dr. Saric tell him to get razors and shave genitals, because science is not his thing

 

[Guido Anselmi]

I don't know Dr Saric!

Saric is a charlatan and pseudohistorian. All one needs to do is to take a look at his credentials. He is this generation's Jovan Deretic.

 

[Angela]

People, I am not going to allow this site to degenerate into a home for Balkan threads which ignore genetics in favor of fringe and now disproved theories.

We KNOW the genetics of Sarmatians. They were NOT Poles or Slavs in general.
http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/10/eaat4457


Read the paper, and others, and get back to scientific discussion, or I'm going to close the thread.
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14615

"Genomic inference reveals that Scythians in the east and the west of the steppe zone can best be described as a mixture of Yamnaya-related ancestry and an East Asian component. Demographic modelling suggests independent origins for eastern and western groups with ongoing gene-flow between them, plausibly explaining the striking uniformity of their material culture. "

 

[LABERIA]

Slavs are the most numerous ethnic and linguistic group in Europe inhabiting about half of European continent and significant part of Asia. These territories roughly correspond to territories formerly inhabited by Thraco-Illyrians in the south and Schytian-Sarmatians in the north.
Slavs start appearing in 5th century without previous known history out of Polish/Ukrainian swamps being people without civilisation, or warrior history and mighty Sarmatians just vanish at this time into thin air.
Slavs then move down south to Balkans and Thracian-Illyrians just vanish of the face of the earth without putting up a single battle.
Today we have Slavs living on Sarmatian lands with dominant haplogroup R1a, and Slavs living on Thraco-Illyrian lands with dominant haplogroup I2.
How and why did Slavs when moving from north eastern Europe separate specific haplogroup for the trip clear of local genetic addmixture , left the most fertile land in Europe, passed over second most fertile land of Europe, wiped out the most hostile warrior nations and settled in most barren mountain regions where they are scraping for living to this day.
Slavic origin remains unknown and disappearance of Thracians, Illyrians and Sarmatians a great mystery.
Both these phenomenons correspond to same point in history and same territory.
Slavic genetic map between R1a and I2 roughly corresponds to Sarmatia and Thraco-Illyria map. I think this is becoming valid point for discussion.
I am not one of those people who has all the answers and that is why i like to question everything.

I am curious to know more about Nino Belov and Serbo Makaridov. They are very popular heroes in Serbia but not know for the rest of the world.

 

[Angela]

This thread is now closed.