Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 83

Thread: Iberian Altaic language

  1. #51
    Regular Member Carlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    2,674

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V22/YF66572
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5c1

    Country: Spain



    ^^
    ok I've put it in favorites. I have read something, I will continue later because these days I am very thick.

  2. #52
    Regular Member Duarte's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-01-19
    Location
    Belo Horizonte
    Posts
    2,037

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-DF27-FGC35133

    Ethnic group
    Portuguese-Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    Hello Carlos, dear friend.
    You have sensitivity for poetry Carlos. There is nothing more relaxing than standing on the seashore listening to the noise of the waves, watching the sea lick the sand at the same time as it destroys the castles that, jokingly, we built before the tide went up. But it is almost a metaphor of life. The sea and the tide remind us that nothing is eternal and that we can always begin to rebuild what has been destroyed by time. Beautiful poem what you posted earlier. It reminds me of one of the elements I love most in nature: water and sea. The other element I love is the mountains. I was born among them, and they always arouse my curiosity to know what is up there and also what is on the other side of them. I grew up climbing the mountains that surround my city. For me flat land, only if it is beside the sea.
    Warm greetings.

  3. #53
    Regular Member Carlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    2,674

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V22/YF66572
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5c1

    Country: Spain



    ^^
    Thank you. It is a poem by Gioconda Belli.

    I have recorded my poems I even started but I left it, I always leave everything, it is the problem that has qualities for almost everything, in the end you play many things but you do not stay in any.

  4. #54
    Regular Member Carlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    2,674

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V22/YF66572
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5c1

    Country: Spain



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Learn easy iberian in 1 minute




    Hypothesis of the origin of the Iberian language.
    (I expose this theory I have not given birth to it or say that I believe it or not)

    He says there was a language spoken in central Europe, France, Spain, British Isles and North Africa.

    In 100 km you could write differently.

    The Latin in its beginning was a dialect of the Iberian that finally was the dialect that most influenced in all the variants of the Iberian.

  5. #55
    Elite member
    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    72
    Posts
    4,921

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    1 members found this post helpful.
    magic linguistic! with this very open minded method we can put things to tell us everything and its opposite.

  6. #56
    Regular Member Carlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    2,674

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V22/YF66572
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5c1

    Country: Spain



    ^^^^

    Does not have a glimpse of credibility?

  7. #57
    Moderator
    Join Date
    21-10-16
    Posts
    2,253


    Ethnic group
    Multiracial Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    2 members found this post helpful.
    Sorry, but I agree with Moesan, the video sounds like absolutely pseudo-scientific rubbish. The method if basically: aita > aisa > caisa > casa. Where dos the "c" come from? What are other words where the same change happened? Why did [ai] turn into [a] and not into [e] as it often happened in the evolution of Iberian languages, or actually why did it change at all? Where are ther other examples of words to prove that that was a really consistent sound change, not just a random ad hoc explanation to fit "casa" and "aita" together? Then he goes on to say that the vowels could normally shift completely (e.g. mol, mul, mil - all arguably the same word), so that it's no wonder that with that rationale you can derive lots of supposedly "plausible" cognates: you just have to add or change a consonant, extract a vowel or shift it around for no good reason besides the intention to make two words similar each other and then conclude "hey that proves that the so-called Romance languages actually come from Iberian" (hmm, no, even if they were really sound-alikes that would still be no scientific evidence).

    It seems to me yet another example of "sound-alike mass comparison" linguistics, which lacks any scientific method and credibility. Romance languages are Romance and derive from Latin not just because of lexical correspondences, but because their structure clearly derives from Italic languages and from a dialect closely related to Classical Latin. It's about the structure of the language, its morphology and syntax, its affixes and ways to make noun and adjectival derivation and so on, not just about similar words. Besides, there's the issue that the Romance languages are unquestionably Indo-European, the connection is very uncontroversial, while Iberian does not look Indo-European at all. As Moesan said, this is kind of "magic linguistics": it will tell you exactly what you already wanted to be true, it stretches the evidences to fit the preconceived narrative.

  8. #58
    Baron
    Join Date
    19-05-12
    Posts
    310


    Country: Canada



    Well there was definitely Yamnaya ancestry in the Bronze Age Iberians, which by definition is full of EHG ancestry, which originated in ancient Russia. It's not all that far fetched, but the earlier people were a hybrid of European hunter-gatherers and western Middle Eastern people. I've also seen some fringe linguists look at parallels between Turkic and Basque. Although I know nothing on the topic to comment. If the Iberian languages date prior to the Bronze Age, logic would dictate it was a family of languages who arrived from the Mediterranean. Otherwise, could it have been a contemporary of languages on the steppes? Why not?

  9. #59
    Moderator
    Join Date
    21-10-16
    Posts
    2,253


    Ethnic group
    Multiracial Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1981 View Post
    Well there was definitely Yamnaya ancestry in the Bronze Age Iberians, which by definition is full of EHG ancestry, which originated in ancient Russia. It's not all that far fetched, but the earlier people were a hybrid of European hunter-gatherers and western Middle Eastern people. I've also seen some fringe linguists look at parallels between Turkic and Basque. Although I know nothing on the topic to comment. If the Iberian languages date prior to the Bronze Age, logic would dictate it was a family of languages who arrived from the Mediterranean. Otherwise, could it have been a contemporary of languages on the steppes? Why not?
    I find it unlikely that Turkic has an EHG origin. The westernmost likely homeland of Turkic is east of the Urals, around the upper Irtysh river, but its most likely earliest location is really in the region between the Ob and Yenisei, in or just north of the Altai and Sayan mountains. Therefore, very far away from the EHG lands, and I don't think the pre-Yamnaya-related people there had much EHG at all. West of the Volga and the Urals the WSHG were already dominant in the Chalcolithic/Early Bronze Age, let alone to the east of that. I tend to associate EHG more with Uralic and Indo-European (IMHO it still looks plausible that PIE was a Caucasian-influenced "Southern EHG" branch, whereas Uralic was a Siberian-influenced "Northern EHG", the two probably being diverged from each other since Paleolithic times).

    In my opinion, those fringe linguists tend to be a little too dazzled by the linguistic parallels that inevitably appear when you have two strongly agluttinative language families with hundreds of affixes, a few of which will inevitably look faintly similar or even coincidentally very close to each other. But that is not enough to make a genealogical connection between any two languages. Agluttinative languages abound everywhere. It's also not quite certain that Iberian and Basque belonged to the same language group, or if they were unrelated or then belonged to very distinct branches of a much older language Family (maybe an EEF one, with a lot of time for linguistic divergence?)

  10. #60
    Regular Member ToBeOrNotToBe's Avatar
    Join Date
    31-12-16
    Posts
    1,110


    Country: United Kingdom



    2 members found this post helpful.
    Imagine if Yamnaya was part of the Dene-Caucasian family, now that would be a twist and a half! It actually almost makes sense too if you can assume Afanasevo spoke some kind of proto-Dene-Yenesian-Sino-Tibetan... (I don't at all believe this by the way, but recently I have been floating the idea that PIE had nothing to do with Yamnaya and was Anatolian, and spread with the Dudesti-Vinca wave into the Balkans before spreading to the Steppe with the interactions between Cucuteni-Trypillia and Sredny-Stog).

    Nothing directly Yamnaya derived (unlike with Corded Ware) has been shown to be Indo-European, just a reminder!

  11. #61
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    12-06-19
    Posts
    268


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post


    At least revolutions but this has sounded to Jota downstream
    Why are you using Armenian music/dances as an analogy for central/eastern Asian music and dances? Just because Urartu was mostly located in modern Turkey? Whether Altaic is a legitimate linguistic family or not, Armenian was never classified as Altaic.

  12. #62
    Banned
    Join Date
    18-06-12
    Posts
    540


    Ethnic group
    Celtiberian
    Country: Spain



    4 members found this post helpful.
    Some pics of Iberian sculptures (esculturas iberas) taken by me at the Museo Arqueologico Nacional (MAN) de Madrid... IMO matriarchy in this society is evident. Pentax k-x, Pentax 18-55

    https://imgur.com/a/Z7Ad0O4
    Last edited by Ziober; 17-08-19 at 11:05.

  13. #63
    Regular Member hrvclv's Avatar
    Join Date
    14-03-17
    Location
    Auvergne, France
    Posts
    452

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-U152-DF103
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1bm

    Ethnic group
    Arvern
    Country: France



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziober View Post
    Some pics of Iberian sculptures (esculturas iberas) taken by me at the Museo Arqueologico Nacional (MAN) de Madrid... IMO matriarchy in this society is evident. Pentax k-x, Pentax 18-55

    https://imgur.com/a/Z7Ad0O4
    Great pics. What period of time do those statues date back to (if known)?
    It is therefore worth while to search out the bounds between opinion and knowledge; and examine by what measures, in things whereof we have no certain knowledge, we ought to regulate our assent and moderate our persuasion. (John Locke)

  14. #64
    Banned
    Join Date
    18-06-12
    Posts
    540


    Ethnic group
    Celtiberian
    Country: Spain



    1 members found this post helpful.
    As the celtic, VII-0 bc. I think iberos were genetically R1b as the celts but with levantine influences, being celts more rude ;P

  15. #65
    Moderator
    Join Date
    21-10-16
    Posts
    2,253


    Ethnic group
    Multiracial Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziober View Post
    Some pics of Iberian sculptures (esculturas iberas) taken by me at the Museo Arqueologico Nacional (MAN) de Madrid... IMO matriarchy in this society is evident. Pentax k-x, Pentax 18-55

    https://imgur.com/a/Z7Ad0O4
    Wow really impressive artwork! I had never seen some of these, and some that I knew are here far better pictured, and I can see their beauty much more clearly. Thank you!

  16. #66
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    29-08-19
    Posts
    26


    Country: Belgium



    1 members found this post helpful.
    I disagree with the Spanish guy not having asiatic traits... He clearly has asiatic influence in phenotype. Europe is too small to develop such types independently. It must have been introduced along with haplogroup R. Doesn't mean that he belongs to this haplogroup. There are also plenty of people who DO have an epicanthic fold in these parts of Europe. I think see similar, types in Belgium too. Usually lighter variations, but the guy I know who has this phenotype is a native and even darker than the person he showed here. It is simply a west and central Asian influence.

  17. #67
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    18-05-17
    Posts
    1


    Country: Turkey



    Very interesting it's sound similar to Turkic languages more than Mongolian

  18. #68
    Elite member
    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    72
    Posts
    4,921

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Just to go back to this very topic, I think that when comparing lexicon (with the needed methodology), we have to look at the depth of lexicon: experience has shown that the most languages are close one to another, the most they share cognate (and not close today by force) words in the fields of family/descendances, body parts, basic verbs and basic adjectives, and so on - (weirdly, the adverbs are often very different, because it seems they are often replaced by new "pictureful" words or even locutions, if I don't mistake). When, with some circonvolutions and very (too) open mind, we find a list of possible cognates concerning other matters, picked here and there, spred far and wide in the allover possible lexicon, we can have doubts, I think. Like some people say, "It's my opinion, and I share it."

  19. #69
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    25-06-18
    Posts
    1,291

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-M269 (LDNA)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5a1b

    Ethnic group
    Thracian
    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    Just to go back to this very topic, I think that when comparing lexicon (with the needed methodology), we have to look at the depth of lexicon: experience has shown that the most languages are close one to another, the most they share cognate (and not close today by force) words in the fields of family/descendances, body parts, basic verbs and basic adjectives, and so on - (weirdly, the adverbs are often very different, because it seems they are often replaced by new "pictureful" words or even locutions, if I don't mistake). When, with some circonvolutions and very (too) open mind, we find a list of possible cognates concerning other matters, picked here and there, spred far and wide in the allover possible lexicon, we can have doubts, I think. Like some people say, "It's my opinion, and I share it."
    You can find similarities in any two languages if you look hard enough, as in Cherokee and Greek, https://dnaconsultants.com/cherokees...mediterranean/

  20. #70
    Elite member
    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    72
    Posts
    4,921

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    You can find similarities in any two languages if you look hard enough, as in Cherokee and Greek, https://dnaconsultants.com/cherokees...mediterranean/
    Thanks for the link which I read. It put nothing under my eyes and I prefer wait for more info's about these affirmations. Greeks, Jews, Phoenicians: wow! America then was a world crossroad, or the goal of whole eastern Mediterranea? For now I stay secptical.

  21. #71
    Banned
    Join Date
    27-05-18
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    58

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    G2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    I1a1c

    Ethnic group
    Georgian
    Country: Georgia



    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post


    I see it clearly.
    Carlos you are observant but at the same time a bit misinformed. The history of people confused by similarity between Kartvelians and Iberians go back thousands of years. Romans also named Kartli(Eastern Georgia) Iberia. Then some linguists tried to find similarities in Basque and Kartvelian languages. I feel like Similarities between the two cultures aren't total coincidence, so far the only possible link is the spread of EEF. maybe tiny parts of their culture were preserved through time in all these places so there are few patterns and similarities between us. I don't think there was any later migration, definitely nothing major but perhaps we're simply seeing the shadows of an ancient extinct culture. Similarly I recently discovered that some Georgian folk songs are eerily similar to some South Italian and Island folk songs. I can't find the link to the video but it was either Sardinia or Sicilians sitting at a table singing a song that sounded very much similar to Georgian folk songs like this

    I also think that our people don't know enough about each others cultures to properly make any comparisons. We need more Georgian anthropologists to learn about Spain/Italy and Vice versa. It's all very superficial, some videos, some tourists going to a place then coming back saying "hey they're like us"

  22. #72
    Regular Member Carlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    2,674

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V22/YF66572
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5c1

    Country: Spain



    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post


    I see it clearly.
    @G2ian

    Jeez but don't you see that that's flamenco

    A little confused the later gypsy dramatization and some Moorish brushstroke but the bulk of the base comes from there, you don't see it


    Even the dancers wear the same hat as this ancient Iberian sculpture


    White and bottled
    what is it?

  23. #73
    Banned
    Join Date
    27-05-18
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    58

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    G2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    I1a1c

    Ethnic group
    Georgian
    Country: Georgia



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    @G2ian

    Jeez but don't you see that that's flamenco

    A little confused the later gypsy dramatization and some Moorish brushstroke but the bulk of the base comes from there, you don't see it


    Even the dancers wear the same hat as this ancient Iberian sculpture

    White and bottled
    what is it?
    I see the similarities. the moves seem similar but the dance has different emphasis and character. Different evolution of the same traditions ? possibly. I was just speculating on where all those similarities come from. Because people have been saying that Iberians and Caucasians are similar for thousands of years but no one knows why.
    That's a western Georgian dance, coincidentally the part where Anatolian Farmers migrated to. The headgear is also west Georgian. Here you'll find these interesting then.

    This is Adjaruli, the same dance from that video mixed with other adjarian dances.

    This one is Khorumi Western military dance

    From western mountains of Raj'a similar to Adjaruli

  24. #74
    Banned
    Join Date
    15-06-20
    Posts
    512


    Country: United States



    Was this a serious thread?

  25. #75
    Regular Member Carlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    2,674

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V22/YF66572
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5c1

    Country: Spain



    Quote Originally Posted by G2ian View Post
    I see the similarities. the moves seem similar but the dance has different emphasis and character. Different evolution of the same traditions ? possibly. I was just speculating on where all those similarities come from. Because people have been saying that Iberians and Caucasians are similar for thousands of years but no one knows why.
    That's a western Georgian dance, coincidentally the part where Anatolian Farmers migrated to. The headgear is also west Georgian. Here you'll find these interesting then.

    This is Adjaruli, the same dance from that video mixed with other adjarian dances.

    This one is Khorumi Western military dance

    From western mountains of Raj'a similar to Adjaruli
    I really see the similarities with Spanish folklore.

    How are the stone engravings and ancient human representations found in your country or throughout the Caucasus?

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •