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Thread: Iberian Altaic language

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    Iberian Altaic language



    https://www.facebook.com/georgeosdia...15139925195849

    Is it possible that the Iberian language was Altaic?

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    What did I listen?

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    [QUOTE = Boreas; 567599] ¿Qué escuché? [/ QUOTE]

    A recreation of how the Iberian should have sounded. When I heard it, it seemed to me that the Portuguese would have inherited more the accent of the ancient Iberian than the Spanish who, as you know, is more similar to the Basque language; although perhaps the old Castilian can remind me of the accent of the audio.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    There is not even a remote evidence to even hypothesize that, so I think it's most unlikely. Also, the so-called Altaic language family has long been discredited by most linguists nowadays. The similarities once perceived are now thought to be areal features due to the formation of a Sprachbund or even mere typological coincidences, possibly reinforced by mutual contacts. Few linguists still think that Turkic, Mongolic, Tungusic and even other language families sometimes included in Altaic like Japonic and Koreanic form a common phylogenetic tree.

    I think it's very unlikely, too, that Portuguese was heavily influenced by the Iberian language. Iberian language as we know it was spoken on the eastern coast of Iberia, far away from the westernmost part of Iberia that is now Portugal. Among presumably non-IE languages Portugal was much closer to Tartessian (though there is a hypothesis about the Celtic or at least para-Celtic nature of Tartessian). Considering its geographic Iberian might've influenced the development of Catalan, but a caveat with that is that Catalan seems to be a later arrival to the region from South France, a derivation of an early Occitan dialect, and not a direct development from the Vulgar Latin spoken in eastern Iberia in the Roman Empire.

    I'm not sure how accurate and reliable this reconstruction of Iberian is, but I liked it that they made it sound non-Romance at least. It actually sounds a bit Celtic to me.

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    Thank you, you have done a very good analysis. Maybe we have to wait for the
    ^^

    Iberian rosseta stone; although I think that exceptionally in Iberia the texts in Iberian and another language did not used to be bilingual and the Latin and Iberian text in the same stone said different things, so it is complicated. In any case he has said "most linguists" which means that there is no consensus among linguists either.

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    I have always seen the oriental or Altaic trace in the current Iberians; although almost as pure as that is not that there are many but there are.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    I love the guy of the two videos below.
    His name is Paul and he is a great Canadian linguist. I am his follower in YouTube and I am his fan.
    These two videos are so fun. They treat of the fonetic similarities between the greek and the european spanish and the european portuguese and russian. Nothing scientific, but very fun.
    Regards to all.

    Why does Greek sound like Spanish ?!
    https://youtu.be/LPMqoHPJzac

    Why does Portuguese look like Russian (or Polish)?
    https://youtu.be/Pik2R46xobA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    [QUOTE = Boreas; 567599] ¿Qué escuché? [/ QUOTE]

    A recreation of how the Iberian should have sounded. When I heard it, it seemed to me that the Portuguese would have inherited more the accent of the ancient Iberian than the Spanish who, as you know, is more similar to the Basque language; although perhaps the old Castilian can remind me of the accent of the audio.
    I have to admit it, it sounds Central Asian for me. Maybe because of title.

    But if this video is true, Celtic is far close to Romance then this for me.


    But I agree Ygorcs, I am also not ure how accurate it

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    ^^To me the one that has most resembled the Iberian audio is the urartu, I did not even know what it was, I had to look for it later in wikipedia so I have not been conditioned.

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    [QUOTE = Duarte; 567681] Me encanta el chico de los dos videos a continuación.
    Su nombre es Paul y es un gran lingüista canadiense. Soy su seguidor en YouTube y soy su fan.
    Estos dos videos son muy divertidos. Tratan de las similitudes fonéticas entre el griego y el europeo europeo y el europeo portugués y ruso. Nada científico, pero muy divertido.
    Saludos a todos.

    ¿Por qué el griego suena como español?
    https://youtu.be/LPMqoHPJzac

    ¿Por qué el portugués parece ruso (o polaco)?
    https://youtu.be/Pik2R46xobA [/ QUOTE]

    Yes he had seen some video of him, they are very good, it is a machine.

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    Danza Bastetana




    Sardana

    I do not know why there is so much mystery, occultism and pretended isolation of the origin of the Iberian. I think that from Spain the opinions of foreigners on our own subjects have been respected too much scholars perhaps very influenced by those who in other times their countrymen had counted as we know erroneously from Spain, so they have been very conditioned by topics seeing how to fit all those topics and how could they not have finally resorted to classifying the Iberian as an isolated element within Europe.

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    At least revolutions but this has sounded to Jota downstream

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    I love the guy of the two videos below.
    His name is Paul and he is a great Canadian linguist. I am his follower in YouTube and I am his fan.
    These two videos are so fun. They treat of the fonetic similarities between the greek and the european spanish and the european portuguese and russian. Nothing scientific, but very fun.
    Regards to all.

    Why does Greek sound like Spanish ?!
    https://youtu.be/LPMqoHPJzac

    Why does Portuguese look like Russian (or Polish)?
    https://youtu.be/Pik2R46xobA
    I also enjoy his vídeos since years ago. They're really fun and informative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post








    I have always seen the oriental or Altaic trace in the current Iberians; although almost as pure as that is not that there are many but there are.
    Hard to say, but genetically there is no hint of that movement, especially because "Altaic" (that actually does not exist linguistically) languages, were not attested anywhere in Europe or the Middle East before the Late Antiquity/Middle Ages. Iberian may be a "linguistic isolate" for a very simple reason: it once belonged to a language family that vanished as IE languages prevailed over them in Southern Europe. I think it makes much more sense to connect them to either the EEF or the Caucasus/Iranian-rich arrivals of the Chalcolithic/Bronze Age (and this would make sense if Iberian indeed sounded a bit like Urartian as you think).

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    I have taught my brother these dances in the moments that couples dance and I asked him what they thought and he told me that at times he looked like a jack and in others a Sevillian, and well the Sevillian comes from the Jota from La Mancha.

    Leaving the subject to isolation I think it's not good. Seeing the history of Iberia and the idiosyncrasy of Spanish in different periods, there is no room for isolation of any kind, and the evolution of any aspect that has taken place in Iberia to the present day has to have some concrete origins. The hermits are isolated.

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    I see it clearly.

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    Is there no genetic evidence, then why did I get 2'47 Altaic-ancestral and less than 1% Altaic tungus?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    I also enjoy his vídeos since years ago. They're really fun and informative.
    I agree with you Ygor. The videos are very cool and instructive. He takes an approach from an interesting and different perspective, which I couldn't not even imagine. Big hug.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post


    I have taught my brother these dances in the moments that couples dance and I asked him what they thought and he told me that at times he looked like a jack and in others a Sevillian, and well the Sevillian comes from the Jota from La Mancha.

    Leaving the subject to isolation I think it's not good. Seeing the history of Iberia and the idiosyncrasy of Spanish in different periods, there is no room for isolation of any kind, and the evolution of any aspect that has taken place in Iberia to the present day has to have some concrete origins. The hermits are isolated.
    Carlos, sorry, but you do not seem to understand what the concept of language isolate means. It does NOT mean that a language was isolated from others. It just means that no attested (written or extant, still spoken) language demonstrably and directly related to that language (the language isolate) was found until now. In the case of Iberian, why dou you think it's so "unacceptable" and "surprising" that it might be a language isolate if Iberian was first attested at a time when most of the people of Europe (and Iberia itself) had shifted to Indo-European languages and abandoned their original languages? Europe certainly had hundreds of non-IE languages that simply vanished before the Roman Era. That's how language isolates appear: not because they are "hermits", but because all the sister languages went extinct and therefore the entire language family was reduced to just 1 language. Japonese, Korean, Basque, Sumerian were/are language isolates, not because they were isolated from any other people, not even because they never had any connection to other peoples and lands, but merely because we know no other language that is clearly the sister or cousin of those languages. Do you get it? What you're saying is nonsense from a linguistic point of view.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    Is there no genetic evidence, then why did I get 2'47 Altaic-ancestral and less than 1% Altaic tungus?
    That's such a tiny amount that it doesn't establish any strong link at all (and you're trying to say Iberians were Altaic, since they were not genocided we'd expect a larger genetic input), and it might even be "noise" in the ancestry test. Such a small ammount might actually and much more probably come as a minority ancestry in other completely different ethnicites, and not directly from "Altaic sources". Also, as I said above and repeat now, there is no such thing as "Altaic language". It's a widely debunked hypothesis in contemporary linguistics.

    Your comparisons of Spanish dances with Caucasian ones also do not make sense, because "Altaic" peoples were Northeast Asian until the Late Antiquity, and not Caucasian ones at all. There is nothing "Altaic" about those comparisons. If anything it just proves my previous point that the Iberians were probably of Anatolian/EEF descent maybe with some Caucasian/Iranian input. That makes much more sense if you're trying to find similarities with Georgian dances and the like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    That's such a tiny amount that it doesn't establish any strong link at all (and you're trying to say Iberians were Altaic, since they were not genocided we'd expect a larger genetic input), and it might even be "noise" in the ancestry test. Such a small ammount might actually and much more probably come as a minority ancestry in other completely different ethnicites, and not directly from "Altaic sources". Also, as I said above and repeat now, there is no such thing as "Altaic language". It's a widely debunked hypothesis in contemporary linguistics.

    Your comparisons of Spanish dances with Caucasian ones also do not make sense, because "Altaic" peoples were Northeast Asian until the Late Antiquity, and not Caucasian ones at all. There is nothing "Altaic" about those comparisons. If anything it just proves my previous point that the Iberians were probably of Anatolian/EEF descent maybe with some Caucasian/Iranian input. That makes much more sense if you're trying to find similarities with Georgian dances and the like.
    Ygorsc, how do you mean there is no Altaic language?
    Regarding Chinese sourses there was a caukasian looking populasion in the Altai befor the Xiong Nu who themselves where a mix Caukasian/N-/E-Asian. There is much evidens of esrly colonisation of Europian populatins in the far east. Taking the language with them, which surely changed through the time. But it would be interesting to know more about these early settlers.
    On the other hand the skytian/sarmatian/saka/hun people reigned over milenia from the black see to korea. So it can be a link to altaian people or language. At least imaginable.

    To me the video sound also very Turkish. But maybee it is just the sound.
    Also the inscription is interesting, similar to Hungarian/Etruscan/or Runik from the stepe.

    Sent from my SM-N950F using Eupedia Forum mobile app

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    Sorry for the spelling, its from my mobile and from my bad english

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    ^^
    To Ygorcs Regarding the topic of the Caucasus dances, I have gone to another topic in the same thread, it has nothing to do with my opinions about the possible Altaic origin of the Iberian. There are two themes: I have seen dance dances such as La Jota and sevillanas in the dances of the Caucaso and if you hurry me to flamenco. A part Altaico as a possible origin of the Iberian.


    You will say what you want but I have the feeling that in all this linguistics there must be a monopoly where someone or a small group are the ones who direct and the rest are heretics, as I would say as a small mafia. Of course I have almost no idea of ​​linguistics or dances or almost anyone, but I want to continue almost like this to not be conditioned and see things from a primary point of a true ignorant in the field and see things being a virgin, And I like it or not, the popular Spanish dances come from the Caucaso in its base and the Iberian does not discover its origin because someone or some sector does not want it because in the dates that we are already had to be resolved the origin of the Iberian, as well that I intend to continue with my virginal techniques.

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    ^^
    2.47 of ancestral Altaic and less than 1% of Altaic tungus is it noisy? Here when it is interesting, it is noise and when it is of interest it is for the whole population, because it will tell me what ethnicity this has come to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    ^^
    2.47 of ancestral Altaic and less than 1% of Altaic tungus is it noisy? Here when it is interesting, it is noise and when it is of interest it is for the whole population, because it will tell me what ethnicity this has come to me.
    Which test is it? Do you have a getmach number? It could be a noisy. Example,some test says I have inuit(My Heritage), some says I am Thai (Dna.Land) but there are no these in FTdna.

    Does it common in your region? Do you have any family member like that?

    But it could be something also just in your case.

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