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Thread: Documentary about "dark skinned" first Swedes

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

    Documentary about "dark skinned" first Swedes



    This has apparently produced controversy and furor in Sweden and on the internet.

    See:
    https://www.rt.com/news/451766-swede...s-documentary/

    Lazaridis wades into the fray by pointing out that the SHG were pretty fair. That's clearly true.

    My question though is does anyone remember who would have first arrived in Sweden? Do we even know? I don't see any dates for that in the paper.

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/164400v2


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    The Mesolithic chronology should be Azillian->Federmesser->Ahrensburgian->Maglemosian. So the earliest Scandinavian humans would be Franco-Cantabrian WHGs.

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    Yap, whoever moved there first after Ice Age, so WHG. I think they had a little tint of EHG in them, like 10% or so, SHG.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    the first to arrive in Scandinavia are not the ancestors of the Scandinavians
    the first ones to arrive that far north were the Hamburg culture, they were Magdalenians (El Miron cluster) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburg_culture
    they were replaced by Ahrenburg culture, Villabrunans



    when the ice melted they went north where they admixed with EHG from Karelia
    some of those admixed were blue-eyed and blond
    they came back south and populated southern Scandinavia and the Baltic area

    even these people are not the ancestors of the Scandinavian
    the ancestors of Scandinavians were and admixture of corded ware with R1b-U106 and I1 some 4.5 ka

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    the conspiracy theory is ridiculous, but understandable after the indoctrination from multiculturalists and political correctness that existed for decades

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Yap, whoever moved there first after Ice Age, so WHG. I think they had a little tint of EHG in them, like 10% or so, SHG.
    frist SHG coming from Northern Scandinavia were actally 55 % EHG and 45 % WHG, but that watered down by subsequent admixture with more WHG

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    Personally I find surprising peoples fascination with skin and eye color. As if they told so much about genetics... Eye color mutation is just a couple of alleles, out of the whole DNA sequence.
    As for skin color, that one I find even more surprising. Changes in skin color can be seen as soon as 3-4 generations, if the pop culture websites I have been following are not too driven by some "multicultural agenda". What I mean is that naturally anyone that came to Sweden 5k+ Years ago from somewhere with more solar radiation would have had a darker skin. And with time they would have lost pigmentation to fit their environment.

    I would bet a Swedish line living in the Ecuador over 10 generations would significantly gain pigmentation, and some Sub Saharan branch living in the North Pole would lose pigmentation over the same timespan.

    That is just my suspicion and I doubt it can be tested in a feasible time-frame. Just wrote it out to express my astonishment at the importance of skin/eye/hair color in genetics according to some "scientists" and the bulk of the general public.
    Lets say the first ancient people to be discovered from modern Sweden had dark skin? So what? o.O

    The Documentary Producers know exactly what they are doing(hint $), not sure about the rest.

    Maybe I am just too metropolitan for genetics discussions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archetype0ne View Post
    Personally I find surprising peoples fascination with skin and eye color. As if they told so much about genetics... Eye color mutation is just a couple of alleles, out of the whole DNA sequence.
    As for skin color, that one I find even more surprising. Changes in skin color can be seen as soon as 3-4 generations, if the pop culture websites I have been following are not too driven by some "multicultural agenda". What I mean is that naturally anyone that came to Sweden 5k+ Years ago from somewhere with more solar radiation would have had a darker skin. And with time they would have lost pigmentation to fit their environment.

    I would bet a Swedish line living in the Ecuador over 10 generations would significantly gain pigmentation, and some Sub Saharan branch living in the North Pole would lose pigmentation over the same timespan.

    That is just my suspicion and I doubt it can be tested in a feasible time-frame. Just wrote it out to express my astonishment at the importance of skin/eye/hair color in genetics according to some "scientists" and the bulk of the general public.
    Lets say the first ancient people to be discovered from modern Sweden had dark skin? So what? o.O

    The Documentary Producers know exactly what they are doing(hint $), not sure about the rest.

    Maybe I am just too metropolitan for genetics discussions.
    Everything tied to look at some importance, at first. After that, some brain work can reduce it at its true importance, but the first look is often striking. It's like that.
    Concerning changes in pigmentation, we have examples of pops living since more than 10 generations in same climate and keeping differences in skin colour. So the selection plays but it has a more complicated role than we think often. And without crossings with a pop provided for the needed traits, mutation doesn't occur in a while even if I think the genome has some global vital "intelligence". I wait proofs for isolated pops changing skin colour within 3 or 4 generations. Have you some clues here?
    It's surely a polygenic question. And surely the cultural habits (clothes by instance, choices of hours of exposure...) have some weight here too.

    Concerning reactions of people, the picture of the "Old Swede" I saw was very provocative, because the face features evocate strongly a great proximity with SSA types, even if these ones are not a monolithic thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    ...
    when the ice melted they went north where they admixed with EHG from Karelia
    some of those admixed were blue-eyed and blond
    they came back south and populated southern Scandinavia and the Baltic area...

    even these people are not the ancestors of the Scandinavian
    the ancestors of Scandinavians were and admixture of corded ware with R1b-U106 and I1 some 4.5 ka
    We don't know if some first inhabitants of Scandinavia are not stayed despite subsequent colonizations.
    We cannot confuse phenotypic notions with haplogroups notion, by the way.
    typicalCorded themselves had partly some traits inherited from the dominent mix of types among northern WHG and EHG people - the other traits are maybe from a mix where dominated a kind of high statured robust 'mediter'looking types (Ladoga/Onega?: some northern new result of EEF+WHG/EHG?) with some more recent 'east-mediter' types visible today East of the Caspian?
    I know new WHG/EHG can replace previous WHG/EHG but...? Erased all of the old ones? At the opposite I think that the old Mesolithc people of Scandinavia North Europe provided genes to the later formations of pops in Northeast and East. Some drifts occurred later but...
    I think the pops covered by the later Y-R-U106 or Y-I1 were slightly different at first but between Chalco and BA the most of the admixture process was already made, broadly said and no new element was incorporated: even EEF was already present since Neolithic.

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    Were these people related to Cheddar Man? It's quite possible that these people had darker skin w/o the SSA features.

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