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Thread: Germanic-Albanian similarities

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    That's a vague semantic relationship and almost like trying to fit one word and the other together. That's okay, a possible hypothesis, but it is much less likely than hound being related to Albanian qen (which may have come from Latin canis via Proto-Albanian kjen, but I don't know), especially when you take into account that /h/ in Germanic languages corresponds to early /k/. The reconstructed PIE word for "dog" was *k'wó- which added to a known suffix -nt(ós) can easily result in Germanic hundaz via regular sound rules, directly from a word already meaning "dog", instead of a totally speculative idea that Germanic would've borrowed Albanian hundë to name their dogs (and assuming that the word would never have evolved since millennia ago in Albanian and in Germanic languages, remaining almost identical). Besides, there is the problem that Proto-Albanian hundë, when you study the etymology of the léxicon and the phonetic history of the language as a whole, not just random and scattered words, probably derives from a Proto-Albanian form *skunta, which does not sound like Proto-Germanic *hundaz.

    People need to understand that many loanwords and especially real cognates usually date to centuries and millennia before the presente, so they are not expected to still sound similar or - as in this case - identical at all, quite on the contrary.
    Everything you said is correct, besides the part than kan in Albanian derives from Latin since we know it was Illyrian too.

    I didn't understand why it was directed to me since I didn't make a statement I simply pointed out something that might interest anyone reading this and hoping someone more knowledgeable will clarify something about it.

    Consider it simply food for thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    Everything you said is correct, besides the part than kan in Albanian derives from Latin since we know it was Illyrian too.

    I didn't understand why it was directed to me since I didn't make a statement I simply pointed out something that might interest anyone reading this and hoping someone more knowledgeable will clarify something about it.

    Consider it simply food for thought.
    I just took the opportunity of your post to write about my little research about those words, that's all.

    Btw, isn't that word qen in Albanian? I didn't research about kan, but the sources say "dog" in Albanian is qen. Is it a dialectal variation? All I could found was that qen would come from Latin canis via Proto-Albanian *kjen (reconstructed), but I don't know precisely why they assume that, but I think that's because of the sound rules that were applied to Albanian from PIE to the early stages of Albanian, namely: the PIE root*k'wó- has a palatalized /k/, which accoridng to the sound correspondences found in many other Albanian words should have become a /th/, not a /k/. But if the original root had become a fully labialized /kw/ eventually delabialized, then I can see it theoretically becoming a q, therefore qen. I think both possibilities are plausible. In any case, it's a well known IE root found in many branches, so I think it's really a bit surprising if it didn't survive in Illyrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neander View Post
    My thread is clear: German-albanian simmilarities, not other IE.
    It seems no didn't understand the deep meaning of my post...
    And by the way English isn't German, but Germanic; maybe you made a little mistake here? if Germanic, then you have to respect the old forms of this language, if you tempt to show us ancient ties and not recent loanwords.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    I just took the opportunity of your post to write about my little research about those words, that's all.

    Btw, isn't that word qen in Albanian? I didn't research about kan, but the sources say "dog" in Albanian is qen. Is it a dialectal variation? All I could found was that qen would come from Latin canis via Proto-Albanian *kjen (reconstructed), but I don't know precisely why they assume that, but I think that's because of the sound rules that were applied to Albanian from PIE to the early stages of Albanian, namely: the PIE root*k'wó- has a palatalized /k/, which accoridng to the sound correspondences found in many other Albanian words should have become a /th/, not a /k/. But if the original root had become a fully labialized /kw/ eventually delabialized, then I can see it theoretically becoming a q, therefore qen. I think both possibilities are plausible. In any case, it's a well known IE root found in many branches, so I think it's really a bit surprising if it didn't survive in Illyrian.
    Yes, the Albanian word is qen indeed (pronounced differently depending on the region) but kan was the Illyrian word, so just like many other cases there's no need to attribute such words to Latin but rather to the Illyrian languages. Who knows how many of those so-called Latin loanwords are actually Latin or just local.

    I'm not well versed in linguistics but I can help with my knowledge in Albanian. In my dialect we have preserved the 'kj' instead of 'q' but the word qen is an exception which we pronounce it something like "tshiên" (prolonged 'e'). Other Gheg dialects pronounced it as several versions of chên while Tosk has what was made later a Standard of qen or qën, where 'ë' is derived from older a, â, ô, or i, and 'q' is pronounced completely differently, so different that Ghegs (besides some Standardized South Gheg speakers in Central Albania) are unable to pronounce it for life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    It seems no didn't understand the deep meaning of my post...
    And by the way English isn't German, but Germanic; maybe you made a little mistake here? if Germanic, then you have to respect the old forms of this language, if you tempt to show us ancient ties and not recent loanwords.
    How can you say recent loanwords wthout facts. Since we are albanians, w know much more about our language, and there can be no english loanwords in the tongue of some illiterate oldmen in mountains.
    Visigoths didnt occupy only albanians, they were everywhere in roman territory, why these similarities are only with albanians??
    So we are not talking here about loanwords, my thread is very clear, these are germanic-albanian similarities.
    Only I don't know what kind of worm is not letting you rest in peace? Why you have so much problem with this thread? You are not contributing anything, just destructive power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neander View Post
    How can you say recent loanwords wthout facts. Since we are albanians, w know much more about our language, and there can be no english loanwords in the tongue of some illiterate oldmen in mountains.
    Visigoths didnt occupy only albanians, they were everywhere in roman territory, why these similarities are only with albanians??
    So we are not talking here about loanwords, my thread is very clear, these are germanic-albanian similarities.
    Only I don't know what kind of worm is not letting you rest in peace? Why you have so much problem with this thread? You are not contributing anything, just destructive power.
    Is not the worm in you? Ygorcs made remarks of the same kind, I think.
    I avow I'm not contributing, because at first I prefer put some solid basis in the search and EXPLANATION of common words presence. And I have too few clues concerning Albanian lexicon, ancient and modern.
    The mainstream to date consider Albanian as a language closer to the Dacians/Medes one, close enough to the poorly known Dardanian language and to the very Illyrians language (the southern one, not the italic-like language of late northern Roman Illyria.
    So, more remotely linked to Slavic, then Baltic tongues; Germanic has some ties with Italic on one hand, and to Baltic-Slavic languages on the other, so some links to Albanian too. A remote link to the Northwestern IE languages, but not by force a specific tight and exclusive link to Albanian, except we find new data.
    And I find totally respectable to look for Germanic-Albanian ties, but with phonetic rules respected, to can make the differences between origins ties and later loans, at ancient and recent times. My position is rather senseful and respectable too, nothing more.
    Croatian has 'plav' for "blue", it could be a Germanic loan. Slavic tongues have 'hleb'/'hljab' for "bread" (IE *hlop? -> "loaf of bread"), so a loan, otherwise from PIE it would have been # 'kleb', approximatively.
    But you could keep on posting here, I have no objection; it would be interesting anyway, and I 'll can learn some Albanian words, with old forms, it would be even better.
    Good sunday

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    @Neander
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    Is not the worm in you? Ygorcs made remarks of the same kind, I think.
    I avow I'm not contributing, because at first I prefer put some solid basis in the search and EXPLANATION of common words presence. And I have too few clues concerning Albanian lexicon, ancient and modern.
    The mainstream to date consider Albanian as a language closer to the Dacians/Medes one, close enough to the poorly known Dardanian language and to the very Illyrians language (the southern one, not the italic-like language of late northern Roman Illyria.
    So, more remotely linked to Slavic, then Baltic tongues; Germanic has some ties with Italic on one hand, and to Baltic-Slavic languages on the other, so some links to Albanian too. A remote link to the Northwestern IE languages, but not by force a specific tight and exclusive link to Albanian, except we find new data.
    And I find totally respectable to look for Germanic-Albanian ties, but with phonetic rules respected, to can make the differences between origins ties and later loans, at ancient and recent times. My position is rather senseful and respectable too, nothing more.
    Croatian has 'plav' for "blue", it could be a Germanic loan. Slavic tongues have 'hleb'/'hljab' for "bread" (IE *hlop? -> "loaf of bread"), so a loan, otherwise from PIE it would have been # 'kleb', approximatively.
    But you could keep on posting here, I have no objection; it would be interesting anyway, and I 'll can learn some Albanian words, with old forms, it would be even better.
    Good sunday
    In terms of the Albanian to Balto-Slavic relations, albanian has closer relations with the Baltic group, lithuanian specifically.
    "As we have already stressed, the mass evacuation of the Albanians from their triangle is the only effective course we can take. In order to relocate a whole people, the first prerequisite is the creation of a suitable psychosis. This can be done in various ways." - Vaso Cubrilovic

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    @JohaneDerite

    Maybe, I cannot judge by myself to date.

    BTW bis: 'dumb down': I want to say 'thumb down'!

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    I wish it is a topic of my coursework but I learn inly German

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