Germanic-Albanian similarities

While Hund germ. and Hound in eng. can be linked to lat. Canis, and illyrians Kan, albanian qen, just K is changed to H
Highly unlikely that hund and kan are related. In Albanian the 't' or 'd' endings are lost after 'n', not added. Same goes to 'b' or 'p' after 'n' or 'm'.
 
Does anyone have a more updated tree than this?

https://www.researchgate.net/figure...s-The-tree-is-a-consensus-tree_fig1_299878405
A-dated-phylogenetic-tree-of-87-Indo-European-languages-The-tree-is-a-consensus-tree.png
Distributions-of-the-age-of-Proto-Indo-European-estimated-from-the-data-of-Ringe-et-al.png



Gray, Russell & Atkinson, Quentin & Greenhill, Simon. (2011). Language Evolution and Human History. 10.1093/acprof:eek:sobl/9780199608966.003.0016.
 
Possibly useful to this conversation.

Language-network.jpg

NeighborNet analyses of the Indo-European lexical data. Scale bar, 0.1. (Grey et al. 2010, Phil. Trans. R. Soc. B 365: 3923-3933).
http://jgpausas.blogs.uv.es/files/2010/11/Language-network.jpg


A-plausible-phylogeny-computed-for-Indo-European-languages-using-CMODELS.png

https://www.researchgate.net/figure...ropean-languages-using-CMODELS_fig2_220802977
A plausible phylogeny computed for Indo-European languages, using CMODELS. / Character-Based Cladistics and Answer Set Programming

Conference Paper (PDF Available)inLecture Notes in Computer Science 3350:37-51 · January 2005with 171 Reads
DOI: 10.1007/978-3-540-30557-6_5 · Source: DBLP




1458100531535.png

https://www.compevol.auckland.ac.nz/en/research/language_culture.html
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/08/120823175406.htm
Paper: Bouckaert, R., Lemey, P., Dunn, M., Greenhill, S. J., Alekseyenko, A. V., Drummond, A. J., Gray, R. D., Suchard, M. A., Atkinson, Q. D. (2012). Mapping the origins and expansion of the Indo-European language family. Science, 337:957–960.
Researchers: Dr Remco Bouckaert, Prof Alexei Drummond, Prof Russell Gray, A/Prof Quentin Atkinson

Interesting Read:
l

"(Phys.org)—A pair of researchers has conducted a phylogenetic analysis on common fairy tales and has found that many of them appear to be much older than has been thought. In their paper published in Royal Society Open Science, Sara Graça da Silva, a social scientist/folklorist with New University of Lisbon and Jamshid Tehrani, an anthropologist with Durham University describe the linguistic study they carried out and why they believe at least one fairy tale had its origins in the Bronze Age."




More information: Comparative phylogenetic analyses uncover the ancient roots of Indo-European folktales, Royal Society Open Science, Published 14 January 2016.DOI: 10.1098/rsos.150645 , http://rsos.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/3/1/150645

Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2016-01-phylogenetic-analyses-fairy-tales-older.html#jCp
 
Radoslav Katicic describing Milan Budmirs opinion on Alb:

DwzkNCwWsAIVK0W
 
Orel on Albanian-Greek isoglosses. These are shared between Alb and Greek only, and happened in a secondary location (i.e. not in the PIE honeland but after the tribes had moved out).

IMO a good candidate for this is Epirus. The terms are also pretty basic and agricultural

DyB_nrHXQAkwdO6
 
Some lexical sharings are with Germanic only of course. Likewise there are exclusive isoglosses between each of the pairs.

It is possible that the ancestors of the Germanics and Albanians subsisted on the backs of the same pre-IE agricultural population I guess.

I don't like the word 'isoglosse 'for lexicon, I prefer keep it for phonetics.
Concerning shared roots at an exclusive level between languages, it occurs often here and there and according to the words you choose, you can "marry" different families of languages of same deep origin: I think I can give you some common cognates in Celtic and Slavic and they don't prove Celtic was particuliarly close to Slavic. it occurred even between close dialects of the same language, when some earlier words common to the whole family were lost here and there, remaining only in some of them, sometimes at the extreme ends of the family territory, without peculiar link with roads or trade.
I have not time to look at just now, but this thread is interesting nevertheless.
 
Orel on Albanian-Greek isoglosses. These are shared between Alb and Greek only, and happened in a secondary location (i.e. not in the PIE honeland but after the tribes had moved out).

IMO a good candidate for this is Epirus. The terms are also pretty basic and agricultural

DyB_nrHXQAkwdO6

You're absolutely spot on about the ancestor of Albanian likely predating Greek in the Balkans, though I would say that Greek almost definitely would have come down from the area of Thrace rather than Epirus, so we would probably be talking about a meeting point east of that.
 
Highly unlikely that hund and kan are related. In Albanian the 't' or 'd' endings are lost after 'n', not added. Same goes to 'b' or 'p' after 'n' or 'm'.

Surely hund and kan are related: PIE *k- gave regularly X- (kh) in very old Germanic and h- today;
'hound' is 'qen' in today Albanian. so no -nd in Albanian. You missed something, I think.
 
Orel on Albanian-Greek isoglosses. These are shared between Alb and Greek only, and happened in a secondary location (i.e. not in the PIE honeland but after the tribes had moved out).

IMO a good candidate for this is Epirus. The terms are also pretty basic and agricultural

DyB_nrHXQAkwdO6



indeed it is funny,

for example thelle Albanian with Greek κοιλος, so the Albanian belly is thellea? compare Greek κοιλια?
or the Albanian uje =water with Greek Υδρια !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! while Υδωρ = water like Brygian Edu

I only see crap here,
which where reposted,

I think if it is Orel's work
it is just a cheap work,

THE MOST AMAZING BULLSHIT OF THE POST,
Albanian ndyj Greek Δυω,

comparing English Dive
THEN ALBANIAN IS ISOGLOSSES WITH ENGLISH ALSO ????
:unsure:


just crup.


LETS LOOK ANOTHER ONE

the Bee

Greek Melissa follows the IE female ending -issa (compare Βασιλισσα, )
and uses the word honey = μελι
so it is what? honey + ending -ssa typical ending for Greek and Anatolian languages ending (Anah-itta Anak-issa)

Albanian Mjalce,
I do no not know Albanian,
but if the word for honey is Mjal is ok?
if the albanian word for honey is not mjal? then?
and is it typical ancient Albanian female anding -ce????
or could a loan?

SO I SEE JUST CRAP HERE,
FOR EVEN IN BULGARIA AND OTHER BALKAN COUNTRIES THE 'HONEY' is MEL,
:LOL::LOL:pathetic posts
 
Radoslav Katicic describing Milan Budmirs opinion on Alb:

DwzkNCwWsAIVK0W



HAHAHAHA

Agin that post,

only the one who post it does even know or ever read the word of Thomopoulos,

Thomopoulos make a big mistake,
and all his work today is just crap.

He consider that in Aegean and Balkans before Greek there was a language called Pelasgian but from IE origin.
in his work it is obvious that Celtic origin loans appear as Pelasgian,
Budimir fall in to the same mistake,

CAUSE IF THERE WAS AN IE SUBSTRACTUM BEFORE GREEK,
THEN THE SAME SHOULD BE IN ALBANIAN AND THRACIAN.
MEANING THAT IT WOULD ABSORVE AND PROVIDE ITS OWN ASPIRATIONS
SO GREEK ALBANIAN (DACO-THRACIAN) AND THRACIAN SHOULD SHARE SOME SAME CHANGES OF THIS SUBSTRACTUM
TO ALL THESE 3 LANGUAGES,
SOMETHING THAT IS NOT YET FOUND. (and never will be)

SO BUDIMIR FELL TO THE SAME MISTAKE OF THOMOPOULOS<

the truth is the proto-Greek and proto-Brygian were sprung next to Thracian.
while Illyrian were that era at today Austria.
 

BTW

THE THREAD IS ABOUT GERMANIC-ALBANIAN

so any comparison with Greek.
IS OUT OF THREAD.
 
According to extensive and scientific analyses by linguists I have read, Albanian shares more isoglosses with Balto-Slavic (particularly Baltic in fact), Greek and Germanic, in that descending order (I hope I'm not messing up things in my memory, but I will check it out later). The fact it is not extremely more related to any of the other extant IE branches (you may be sure that there were other IE branches that simply died out before they were written down) suggests to me that Albanian has a really ancient common proto-language with any one of the IE subfamilies we know. That is, its ancestral language probably split off quite early, and somehow it belonged to a part of the original LPIE dialect continuum that was in contact with and/or shared lexical and grammatical traits (innovations or archaisms) with mainly the ancestral dialects of Balto-Slavic, Hellenic and Germanic. Maybe somewhere around the Carpathians or Western Ukraine? I don't know. But I'm certain that the connections are really old and probably happened well before the IE subfamilies consolidated in their respective geographic regions distant from each other.

EDIT: Or, as Moesan correctly pointed out, it may be that some - though I doubt all - of those closer lexical and phonetic connections just meant that some words and grammatical quirks that were distributed across the PIE dialect continuum were preserved in just a few dialects, but not in others, and that did not necessarily imply they were particularly close to each other, as some remote dialects could just have preserved more words than others (for instance, they may be more archaic, and not sharing innovations).
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_substrate_hypothesis

Based on the wiki-page about Germanic substrate hypothesis, we see that some o fthe words have their cognates in Albanian:
english 'North' - in albanian 'narth' means 'I am feeling cold', or 'it is cold'
english 'sword' - in albanian 'kordha', with the same meaning
english 'shield' - in albanian 'shilte' is a hassock
english 'bow' - in albanian 'bahe' means sling, weapon of David against Goliath
Icelandic 'drekka' - in albanian 'dreka' means lunch, the portion of middle day (afternoon)

There also similarities in other fields, which I cannot write here about, f. ex. in mythology, fairy tales etc.

Those kinds of "visual/audible" comparisons of sound-alikes are fun, but do not have any scientific meaning at all, especially when the words of two particularly divergent languages/language groups are compared (because of course in that case it's much less likely that any two words that are real cognates, and not just similarities caused by random chance, would still look almost identical after thousands of years when the two languages are mostly very different from each other in other lexical and grammatical traits).

Other than that, Albanian does have many isoglosses with Germanic, but less than with Hellenic and Balto-Slavic. But I'm not sure the examples you've given here are the best examples of such isoglosses. Similarities are not enough. Galician "nai" is a clear cognate of German "mutter" even though the two words don't look or sound much similar at all. To establish real connections between two languages, you'd have to have a look at the comparative vocabulary of the two languages and try to identify and derive regular sound correspondences between them - then you'd be certain that they aren't just random sound-alike words, but actual and probable connections between the two languages. To give you a totally hypothetical example, this is how it really must be done:

LANGUAGE X ---- probable semantic correspondence in ----- LANGUAGE Y
drako : llowa
náikeni : dííwâdh
kadravi : wollob
navúli : dobwégh
painúlo : fiidhwégha

The words above sound mostly nothing like each other, but if you analyze them as a group of words, and not just individually, you can find regular sound correspondences that make them clear counterparts to each other and make it possible to "guess" the word to a high degree in the other language by applying those "sound rules":
1) /a/ in X corresponds to /o/ in Y
2) /k/ in X corresponds to /w/ in Y
3) /n/ in X corresponds to /d/ (initialy) or /dh/ (medial) in Y
4) /i/ in X corresponds to a dropped vowel in Y
5) unstressed /o/ in X corresponds to /a/ in Y
6) /u/ in X corresponds to /we/ in Y
7) /ai/ in X corresponds to /íí/ in Y
8) /l/ in X corresponds to /gh/ in Y
9) /dr/ in X corresponds to /ll/ in Y

Of course this is a very simplified example, but that's just to demonstrate that linguistic similarities between two languages do not necessarily - or even most often - imply that the really corresponding words will sound very similar. This kind of mass comparison looking for words that look almost identical can be very misleading, because especially when they're too similar there is a big chance that it's just random chance, coincidence, which is of course always a possibility when you have a limited number of phonemes (mostly 30-40 per language) and dozens or hundreds of thousands of words.
 
There are other words shared between Germanic and Albanian, which are whole IE:
Spear - alb. spirrë means thin woods to start fire
Hungry - alb. Hanger means 'eat'
Cow - alb. Kau means bull
Blood - alb. Blatim means sacrifice, offering to the god
Cave - alb. Guva is a synonim for shpella (cave), shpella is derived from greek spelaeum

Cow vs. kau is not a specifically Germanic-Albanian isogloss, the PIE root *gwós/gwou- can be found in most IE language groups.

And cave is not a good example of the Germanic-Albanian connection, because cave is a French loanword of Latin origin into English.
 
I read Orel's opinion yesterday and he points out that Albanian was spoken in Dacia Ripensis or further north Carpathian Beskids,which some linguist believes that have Albanian etymology,Carpathians and Beskids likewise.I think he dates the Albanian migration a bit before the Roman conquest of Balkans.
 
Neander, these are theories that have been discussed and rediscussed many times. However, read this, maybe you will find it interesting:

Source: [Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz, Opera Philologica (Hildesheim: Georg Olms, 1989). Translated from the French by Robert Elsie.]

http://www.albanianhistory.net/1705_Leibniz/index.html

P.S.
From my side i will add the possible connection of the Albanian word gosti = feast, banquet in English, with guest in English and gast in German.

Leibniz's letters sound more like speculation based on little data and previous linguistic research available to him at that time, therefore he has to resort to a lot of immaginative assumptions and mostly rely on on mere sound similarity instead of a more methodic way to assess the connections between the two languages as well as other languages of Europes. I don't think it's a good source after all the huge development of the science of linguistics in the 19th and 20th centuries.

Anyway, there is certainly a high possibility that gosti is related to guest/gast but it doesn't help us establish the degree of closer connections between Germanic and Albanian, because that same root, Always within the same semantic realm, is also presente in other IE groups like Latin hospes/hospites (hence hospitality and so on - also "guest, one who is received into one's house or land") and in Slavic gosti. By the way, searching for the etymology of Albanian gosti "feast", I saw some sources claiming that it is probably a later loanword from Slavic gosti, because the word missed the effects of vowel reduction in Old Albanian (and it's really almost identical to the Slavic root). I'd like to know the main sound correspondence to PIE *gh-, *ó- and unstressed *i- (the PIE root was *ghóstis) in Albanian to assess the possibility that it's actually na old native word in Albanian.
 
Orel on Albanian-Greek isoglosses. These are shared between Alb and Greek only, and happened in a secondary location (i.e. not in the PIE honeland but after the tribes had moved out).

IMO a good candidate for this is Epirus. The terms are also pretty basic and agricultural

DyB_nrHXQAkwdO6
I think that the shared isoglosses between Albanian and Germanic,Balto-Slavic is far greater than with any other languages.That is not something bad.Greek language is also not "native" to Greece but came from somewhere,including all other languages spoken in the Balkans today.
 
Surely hund and kan are related: PIE *k- gave regularly X- (kh) in very old Germanic and h- today;
'hound' is 'qen' in today Albanian. so no -nd in Albanian. You missed something, I think.
Hund is the Albanian word for 'nose' and kan/ken became 'qen'. So 'kan' became either 'qen' or 'hund' (adding the 'd' at the end as I said) not both.
 

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