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Thread: Late Bronze Age Caledonians

  1. #1
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    Late Bronze Age Caledonians

    I uploaded to GEDmatch Genesis this sample:


    https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map...7.6922/-3.2249


    I2860, Late Bronze Age Scotland (Moray), 970–816 calBCE (2738±29 BP), Y-DNA R1b-P312, mtDNA H5a1:


    GEDmatch Genesis kit number - DQ3188575


    Eurogenes K15 results:


    Admix Results (sorted):


    # Population Percent
    1 Atlantic 34.51
    2 North_Sea 30.03
    3 Eastern_Euro 12.64
    4 Baltic 10.69
    5 West_Med 8.84
    6 West_Asian 3.29


    Single Population Sharing:


    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Southeast_English 7.51
    2 Irish 7.75
    3 Southwest_English 8.11
    4 West_Scottish 8.15
    5 North_German 8.26
    6 South_Dutch 8.66
    7 Danish 8.84
    8 North_Dutch 9.92
    9 Orcadian 10.53
    10 French 12.87
    11 Norwegian 13.09
    12 West_German 13.44
    13 East_German 13.46
    14 Swedish 14.13
    15 West_Norwegian 14.18
    16 North_Swedish 14.83
    17 Austrian 15.75
    18 Southwest_Finnish 16.16
    19 Spanish_Cataluna 17.84
    20 Hungarian 18.77


    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 75.5% Danish + 24.5% French_Basque @ 4.98
    2 78.1% North_German + 21.9% French_Basque @ 5.36
    3 79.3% West_Scottish + 20.7% French_Basque @ 5.67
    4 81.2% Irish + 18.8% French_Basque @ 5.75
    5 62.1% North_Swedish + 37.9% French_Basque @ 5.81
    6 73.9% North_Dutch + 26.1% French_Basque @ 6.05
    7 76.7% West_Scottish + 23.3% Southwest_French @ 6.11
    8 79.2% Irish + 20.8% Southwest_French @ 6.19
    9 84.4% Southeast_English + 15.6% French_Basque @ 6.3
    10 74.2% Danish + 25.8% Southwest_French @ 6.35
    11 66% Norwegian + 34% French_Basque @ 6.38
    12 63.8% Swedish + 36.2% French_Basque @ 6.44
    13 82.7% Irish + 17.3% Spanish_Aragon @ 6.55
    14 80.3% West_Scottish + 19.7% Spanish_Aragon @ 6.55
    15 82.9% Irish + 17.1% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 6.62
    16 81.9% Irish + 18.1% Spanish_Cantabria @ 6.63
    17 82.9% Irish + 17.1% Spanish_Valencia @ 6.63
    18 80.4% West_Scottish + 19.6% Spanish_Valencia @ 6.64
    19 80.5% West_Scottish + 19.5% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 6.64
    20 79.4% West_Scottish + 20.6% Spanish_Cantabria @ 6.66


    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% French_Basque +50% North_Swedish @ 8.218181


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Danish +25% French_Basque +25% Southwest_Finnish @ 5.436994


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 French_Basque + Southwest_Finnish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.917883
    2 French_Basque + Irish + Southwest_Finnish + West_Scottish @ 5.061012
    3 Danish + French_Basque + Southwest_Finnish + West_Scottish @ 5.099520
    4 French_Basque + Irish + Irish + Southwest_Finnish @ 5.226985
    5 Danish + French_Basque + Irish + Southwest_Finnish @ 5.231301
    6 French_Basque + Orcadian + Southwest_Finnish + West_Scottish @ 5.241187
    7 French_Basque + Southeast_English + Southwest_Finnish + West_Scottish @ 5.327492
    8 French_Basque + Irish + Orcadian + Southwest_Finnish @ 5.338628
    9 Danish + French_Basque + Orcadian + Southwest_Finnish @ 5.388310
    10 French_Basque + North_German + Southwest_Finnish + West_Scottish @ 5.394271
    11 Danish + Danish + French_Basque + Southwest_Finnish @ 5.436994
    12 French_Basque + North_Dutch + Southwest_Finnish + West_Scottish @ 5.443968
    13 French_Basque + Irish + Southeast_English + Southwest_Finnish @ 5.484848
    14 Finnish + French_Basque + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 5.494793
    15 East_Finnish + French_Basque + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 5.503013
    16 Danish + French_Basque + Southeast_English + Southwest_Finnish @ 5.508354
    17 French_Basque + North_German + Orcadian + Southwest_Finnish @ 5.563746
    18 French_Basque + Irish + North_Dutch + Southwest_Finnish @ 5.583492
    19 French_Basque + Irish + North_German + Southwest_Finnish @ 5.585396
    20 East_Finnish + French_Basque + Irish + West_Scottish @ 5.610758


    Eurogenes K36:


    114045 SNPs used in this evaluation


    Population
    Amerindian -
    Arabian -
    Armenian -
    Basque 4.26 Pct
    Central_African -
    Central_Euro 9.41 Pct
    East_African -
    East_Asian -
    East_Balkan 0.40 Pct
    East_Central_Asian -
    East_Central_Euro 7.58 Pct
    East_Med -
    Eastern_Euro 5.19 Pct
    Fennoscandian 6.87 Pct
    French 9.98 Pct
    Iberian 12.94 Pct

    Indo-Chinese -
    Italian 8.26 Pct
    Malayan -
    Near_Eastern -
    North_African -
    North_Atlantic 17.20 Pct
    North_Caucasian -
    North_Sea 16.38 Pct
    Northeast_African -
    Oceanian -
    Omotic -
    Pygmy -
    Siberian -
    South_Asian -
    South_Central_Asian -
    South_Chinese -
    Volga-Ural 1.52 Pct
    West_African -
    West_Caucasian -
    West_Med -


    Similarity Map:



  2. #2
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    Eurogenes K13 for the same individual:


    Admix Results (sorted):


    # Population Percent
    1 North_Atlantic 50.72
    2 Baltic 26.32
    3 West_Med 15.36
    4 West_Asian 6.64
    5 Amerindian 0.59
    6 South_Asian 0.38


    Single Population Sharing:


    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Irish 4
    2 Orcadian 4.19
    3 West_Scottish 4.87
    4 North_Dutch 4.91
    5 Southwest_English 4.97
    6 Southeast_English 5.69
    7 Norwegian 5.7
    8 Danish 5.71
    9 North_German 6.8
    10 Swedish 7.57
    11 South_Dutch 9.2
    12 West_German 10.51
    13 North_Swedish 13.52
    14 East_German 13.93
    15 Austrian 14.13
    16 French 14.57
    17 Hungarian 18.97
    18 Southwest_Finnish 21.08
    19 Southwest_French 21.19
    20 Spanish_Cataluna 21.23


    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 84.5% Norwegian + 15.5% French_Basque @ 3.03
    2 79.3% Swedish + 20.7% French_Basque @ 3.19
    3 92.4% Irish + 7.6% Ukrainian @ 3.4
    4 92.3% Irish + 7.7% Polish @ 3.42
    5 89.8% Southwest_English + 10.2% Lithuanian @ 3.43
    6 88.6% Southwest_English + 11.4% Estonian @ 3.44
    7 86.8% Irish + 13.2% East_German @ 3.44
    8 92.5% Irish + 7.5% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.45
    9 92% Irish + 8% South_Polish @ 3.47
    10 94.1% Irish + 5.9% Lithuanian @ 3.47
    11 93.6% Irish + 6.4% Russian_Smolensk @ 3.49
    12 93.7% Irish + 6.3% Estonian_Polish @ 3.5
    13 93.6% Irish + 6.4% Estonian @ 3.53
    14 94.3% Irish + 5.7% Kargopol_Russian @ 3.54
    15 92.6% Irish + 7.4% Croatian @ 3.54
    16 65.8% Southwest_English + 34.2% Swedish @ 3.55
    17 94.2% Irish + 5.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.56
    18 94% Irish + 6% Belorussian @ 3.56
    19 94.2% Irish + 5.8% Southwest_Russian @ 3.56
    20 95.1% Irish + 4.9% Erzya @ 3.56

  3. #3
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    MDLP K23b results for the same individual:


    Admix Results (sorted):


    # Population Percent
    1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 37.18
    2 European_Early_Farmers 30.68
    3 Caucasian 19.44
    4 Ancestral_Altaic 6.37
    5 South_Central_Asian 5.93
    6 Amerindian 0.28
    7 Austronesian 0.11


    Single Population Sharing:


    # Population (source) Distance
    1 English_Cornwall_GBR ( ) 1.55
    2 English_Kent_GBR ( ) 2.22
    3 British ( ) 2.35
    4 CEU ( ) 2.62
    5 Welsh ( ) 3.01
    6 North_European ( ) 3.38
    7 English ( ) 3.7
    8 Irish ( ) 4.22
    9 Norwegian_West ( ) 5.23
    10 Frisian ( ) 5.28
    11 Belgian ( ) 5.35
    12 Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR ( ) 5.67
    13 Norwegian_East ( ) 6.03
    14 Orcadian ( ) 6.49
    15 Icelandic ( ) 6.65
    16 French ( ) 7.26
    17 Swede ( ) 8.13
    18 Dutch ( ) 8.21
    19 Dane ( ) 9.19
    20 North_German ( ) 10.26


    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 70.6% British ( ) + 29.4% Frisian ( ) @ 0.91
    2 97.5% British ( ) + 2.5% Georgian_Svan ( ) @ 1.02
    3 97.6% British ( ) + 2.4% Georgian_Tbilisi ( ) @ 1.03
    4 96.8% British ( ) + 3.2% Balkar ( ) @ 1.04
    5 96.8% British ( ) + 3.2% North_Ossetian ( ) @ 1.04
    6 97.4% British ( ) + 2.6% Abkhasian ( ) @ 1.05
    7 96.8% British ( ) + 3.2% Adygei ( ) @ 1.07
    8 97.7% British ( ) + 2.3% Georgian_Laz ( ) @ 1.07
    9 97.5% British ( ) + 2.5% Georgian_Megrelia ( ) @ 1.08
    10 97.6% British ( ) + 2.4% Georgian_Imereti ( ) @ 1.08
    11 97.5% British ( ) + 2.5% Adjara ( ) @ 1.09
    12 97.5% British ( ) + 2.5% Georgian ( ) @ 1.09
    13 97% British ( ) + 3% Ossetian ( ) @ 1.09
    14 96.3% British ( ) + 3.7% Cirkassian ( ) @ 1.11
    15 96.1% British ( ) + 3.9% Crimean_Tatar_Coast ( ) @ 1.11
    16 96.7% British ( ) + 3.3% Chechen ( ) @ 1.13
    17 96.8% British ( ) + 3.2% Circassian ( ) @ 1.14
    18 97.3% British ( ) + 2.7% Turk_Trabzon ( ) @ 1.14
    19 92.6% British ( ) + 7.4% Serb_Serbia ( ) @ 1.14
    20 96.7% British ( ) + 3.3% Kabardin ( ) @ 1.15

  4. #4
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    MtDNA haplogroup
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    MDLP K23b results for the same individual:


    Admix Results (sorted):


    #PopulationPercent
    1European_Hunters_Gatherers37.18
    2European_Early_Farmers30.68
    3Caucasian19.44
    4Ancestral_Altaic6.37
    5South_Central_Asian5.93
    6Amerindian0.28
    7Austronesian0.11


    Single Population Sharing:


    #Population (source)Distance
    1English_Cornwall_GBR ( )1.55
    2English_Kent_GBR ( )2.22
    3British ( )2.35
    4CEU ( )2.62
    5Welsh ( )3.01
    6North_European ( )3.38
    7English ( )3.7
    8Irish ( )4.22
    9Norwegian_West ( )5.23
    10Frisian ( )5.28
    11Belgian ( )5.35
    12Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR ( )5.67
    13Norwegian_East ( )6.03
    14Orcadian ( )6.49
    15Icelandic ( )6.65
    16French ( )7.26
    17Swede ( )8.13
    18Dutch ( )8.21
    19Dane ( )9.19
    20North_German ( )10.26


    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


    # Primary Population (source)Secondary Population (source)Distance
    1 70.6%British ( )+29.4%Frisian ( )@0.91
    2 97.5%British ( )+2.5%Georgian_Svan ( )@1.02
    3 97.6%British ( )+2.4%Georgian_Tbilisi ( )@1.03
    4 96.8%British ( )+3.2%Balkar ( )@1.04
    5 96.8%British ( )+3.2%North_Ossetian ( )@1.04
    6 97.4%British ( )+2.6%Abkhasian ( )@1.05
    7 96.8%British ( )+3.2%Adygei ( )@1.07
    8 97.7%British ( )+2.3%Georgian_Laz ( )@1.07
    9 97.5%British ( )+2.5%Georgian_Megrelia ( )@1.08
    10 97.6%British ( )+2.4%Georgian_Imereti ( )@1.08
    11 97.5%British ( )+2.5%Adjara ( )@1.09
    12 97.5%British ( )+2.5%Georgian ( )@1.09
    13 97%British ( )+3%Ossetian ( )@1.09
    14 96.3%British ( )+3.7%Cirkassian ( )@1.11
    15 96.1%British ( )+3.9%Crimean_Tatar_Coast ( )@1.11
    16 96.7%British ( )+3.3%Chechen ( )@1.13
    17 96.8%British ( )+3.2%Circassian ( )@1.14
    18 97.3%British ( )+2.7%Turk_Trabzon ( )@1.14
    19 92.6%British ( )+7.4%Serb_Serbia ( )@1.14
    20 96.7%British ( )+3.3%Kabardin ( )@1.15
    Everything here looks as I'd expect, good data point.

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Eupedia Forum mobile app
    Administrator of the Young Family Project
    Genetic genealogy enthusiast

  5. #5
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    Interesting. Does this mean that Insular Celts and Germanics were closely related?
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    With all of this work you're doing, could you please indicate the number of snps they were able to get and the quality of the data? I think it's important to have that information before placing a lot of reliance on these results.


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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Interesting. Does this mean that Insular Celts and Germanics were closely related?
    In the big schema of things, yes. They shared the same Bronze Age ancestors or very similar.

    In the smaller schema of things, they had different languages, yDNA, looks and culture.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Govan View Post
    In the big schema of things, yes. They shared the same Bronze Age ancestors or very similar.

    In the smaller schema of things, they had different languages, yDNA, looks and culture.
    Exactly. Even autosomally, we can still distinguish between the Britons and the Anglo Saxons.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Exactly. Even autosomally, we can still distinguish between the Britons and the Anglo Saxons.
    Yes, no problem with distinguishing, but if this Caledonian sample is of any good quality then it means that almost 80%+ of their dna is exactly from same Bronze Age Source. Not too much of "foreign" since. That's pretty close affinity.

    Unfortunately I can't check the sample myself on Gedmatch. It says "sample not found". It goes the same for all the recent samples Tomenable supposedly uploaded there.

  10. #10
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    Interesting how he looks 80 percent Irish/Scottish and 20 percent Spanish in the first post (or half North Swedish half Basque)
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