Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 38 of 38

Thread: Iron Age Balkan DNA on GEDmatch

  1. #26
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
    24-02-19
    Location
    Bylazora
    Posts
    73
    Points
    889
    Level
    7
    Points: 889, Level: 7
    Level completed: 70%, Points required for next Level: 61
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: Macedonia



    How this IronAge Montenegro sample on dna.land have 64% Slavic.
    ironagemontenegro.jpg

  2. #27
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    71
    Posts
    4,484
    Points
    44,656
    Level
    65
    Points: 44,656, Level: 65
    Level completed: 32%, Points required for next Level: 894
    Overall activity: 7.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    "slavic" DNA in these analysis (rather rough) doesn't mean true Slavic ancestry, IMO, but perhaps an ancestry close the Slavs one, what is not exactly the same? IA saw a lot of moves of big and small bands, I think. But this could point to a far enough place of origin.

  3. #28
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second Class10000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Dibran's Avatar
    Join Date
    25-09-16
    Posts
    837
    Points
    14,391
    Level
    36
    Points: 14,391, Level: 36
    Level completed: 43%, Points required for next Level: 459
    Overall activity: 16.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a-L1029*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H11a2*-146+

    Ethnic group
    Albanian/Gheg/Dibran/Okshtun
    Country: United States



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Archetype0ne View Post
    .........
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    ...............
    Quote Originally Posted by Gash View Post
    ...............
    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    ............
    Plotted me and my father. I am the blue dot and my father is the green dot right under me.


  4. #29
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    ihype02's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-10-16
    Posts
    321
    Points
    2,677
    Level
    14
    Points: 2,677, Level: 14
    Level completed: 76%, Points required for next Level: 73
    Overall activity: 15.0%


    Country: Albania



    1 members found this post helpful.
    It turns out the Slavic occupation was not that exaggerated by the Byzantines as some would argue.

  5. #30
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    ihype02's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-10-16
    Posts
    321
    Points
    2,677
    Level
    14
    Points: 2,677, Level: 14
    Level completed: 76%, Points required for next Level: 73
    Overall activity: 15.0%


    Country: Albania



    Even Thracians plot southwest of modern Thessalians, imagine what distance ancient Macedonians and ancient Thessalians will have with modern Thessalians and modern Greek Macedonians in PCA. I guess Byzantines didn't describe Thessaloniki as a Roman island in Slavic sea for no reason.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vlachia

    So much for South Slavs being little ''Slavic''. The genetic science does wonders.

  6. #31
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    16,510
    Points
    358,192
    Level
    100
    Points: 358,192, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    Plotted me and my father. I am the blue dot and my father is the green dot right under me.


    Sorry for the late response; I just saw this. Very interesting.

    What program was used?

    I asked because based on the work we're doing on the Vahaduo site I don't think the "Illyrian" samples would plot there (i.e. so close to the Spanish samples), although I didn't do a PCA. The Iron Age "Thracian" was described in the original paper as "Tuscan" like. Actually, it looks more to me like Lazio or Campania, but the paper only used 1000 genomes, so obviously Tuscan was the closest they could come.

    As for using this sample to judge the amount of "Slavic" ancestry in the Balkans, I don't think that's necessarily a good idea. By that I mean that this particular "Thracian" might not have been "typical", or at least not all Iron Age Thracians were like him. They might have been, or they might not have been. My recollection is that the Bronze Age samples from that region plot further "north". Did they just pass through, or did they stay and really influence the genetics of a lot of people. The only pretty accurate way to know how much influence the Slavic migrations had is, imo, to get more than one, and hopefully a scattered sample of people from the Balkans from the Imperial Era and then compare them to modern people. I don't think it can be some huge amount of Slavi given how much Neolithic and CHG/Iranian like or what used to be called "West Asian" there still is in the Balkans, but time will tell.

    Distance to: IllyrianDalmatian_I3313
    3.56275646 Italy_Lombardy
    4.78770749 Italy_Emilia
    4.93995082 Italy_Liguria
    5.14574766 Italy_Veneto
    5.39127537 Italy_Piedmont
    6.07536254 Italy_Tuscany
    6.54086099 Swiss_Italian
    7.53474883 Italy_Trentino
    8.14842046 France_Corsica
    8.45013349 Italy_FriuliVG
    8.57974941 Italy_Romagna
    9.78872702 Italy_Aosta_Valley
    11.74627933 Italy_Marche
    12.03777155 Italy_Lazio
    12.29336406 Albanian_North
    12.42080915 Albanian_Kosovo
    14.46197428 Baleares
    16.46757724 Galicia
    17.19215810 Extremadura
    17.51714611 Italy_Abruzzo
    18.13725448 Portuguese
    18.50866554 Murcia
    18.86604092 Andalucia
    19.05735291 Greek
    19.22266111 Castilla_Y_Leon


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  7. #32
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second Class10000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Dibran's Avatar
    Join Date
    25-09-16
    Posts
    837
    Points
    14,391
    Level
    36
    Points: 14,391, Level: 36
    Level completed: 43%, Points required for next Level: 459
    Overall activity: 16.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a-L1029*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H11a2*-146+

    Ethnic group
    Albanian/Gheg/Dibran/Okshtun
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Sorry for the late response; I just saw this. Very interesting.

    What program was used?

    I asked because based on the work we're doing on the Vahaduo site I don't think the "Illyrian" samples would plot there (i.e. so close to the Spanish samples), although I didn't do a PCA. The Iron Age "Thracian" was described in the original paper as "Tuscan" like. Actually, it looks more to me like Lazio or Campania, but the paper only used 1000 genomes, so obviously Tuscan was the closest they could come.

    As for using this sample to judge the amount of "Slavic" ancestry in the Balkans, I don't think that's necessarily a good idea. By that I mean that this particular "Thracian" might not have been "typical", or at least not all Iron Age Thracians were like him. They might have been, or they might not have been. My recollection is that the Bronze Age samples from that region plot further "north". Did they just pass through, or did they stay and really influence the genetics of a lot of people. The only pretty accurate way to know how much influence the Slavic migrations had is, imo, to get more than one, and hopefully a scattered sample of people from the Balkans from the Imperial Era and then compare them to modern people. I don't think it can be some huge amount of Slavi given how much Neolithic and CHG/Iranian like or what used to be called "West Asian" there still is in the Balkans, but time will tell.

    Distance to: IllyrianDalmatian_I3313
    3.56275646 Italy_Lombardy
    4.78770749 Italy_Emilia
    4.93995082 Italy_Liguria
    5.14574766 Italy_Veneto
    5.39127537 Italy_Piedmont
    6.07536254 Italy_Tuscany
    6.54086099 Swiss_Italian
    7.53474883 Italy_Trentino
    8.14842046 France_Corsica
    8.45013349 Italy_FriuliVG
    8.57974941 Italy_Romagna
    9.78872702 Italy_Aosta_Valley
    11.74627933 Italy_Marche
    12.03777155 Italy_Lazio
    12.29336406 Albanian_North
    12.42080915 Albanian_Kosovo
    14.46197428 Baleares
    16.46757724 Galicia
    17.19215810 Extremadura
    17.51714611 Italy_Abruzzo
    18.13725448 Portuguese
    18.50866554 Murcia
    18.86604092 Andalucia
    19.05735291 Greek
    19.22266111 Castilla_Y_Leon
    Hey. If I remember correctly(posted some time ago) I believe its the K15 PCA. So, I believe it may not be accurate now that G25 is available.

    I think its merely a mix-up of certain components, shifting samples to and fro. For example a half Lebanese, half Polish person from TA came out "Romanian" on Gedmatch. Perhaps due to similar components pulling them closer.

    Taking this into account, and as some theorize that Slavs may have already been close to the Danube; it is possible not all the Neolithic/Southern like admixture in Slavs is from the Balkans or even vice versa(depending upon their impact). They may have already had significant Southern-like admixture. Which would mean some of the Neolithic may be from Slavs to. Doubtful they were strictly steppe ANE.

    What Vahaduo calc is that by the way? I would like to run mine and see.

  8. #33
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    16,510
    Points
    358,192
    Level
    100
    Points: 358,192, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    Hey. If I remember correctly(posted some time ago) I believe its the K15 PCA. So, I believe it may not be accurate now that G25 is available.

    I think its merely a mix-up of certain components, shifting samples to and fro. For example a half Lebanese, half Polish person from TA came out "Romanian" on Gedmatch. Perhaps due to similar components pulling them closer.

    Taking this into account, and as some theorize that Slavs may have already been close to the Danube; it is possible not all the Neolithic/Southern like admixture in Slavs is from the Balkans or even vice versa(depending upon their impact). They may have already had significant Southern-like admixture. Which would mean some of the Neolithic may be from Slavs to. Doubtful they were strictly steppe ANE.

    What Vahaduo calc is that by the way? I would like to run mine and see.
    That particular one is the updated K12b. I just input that particular sample as the target.

  9. #34
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second Class10000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Dibran's Avatar
    Join Date
    25-09-16
    Posts
    837
    Points
    14,391
    Level
    36
    Points: 14,391, Level: 36
    Level completed: 43%, Points required for next Level: 459
    Overall activity: 16.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a-L1029*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H11a2*-146+

    Ethnic group
    Albanian/Gheg/Dibran/Okshtun
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    That particular one is the updated K12b. I just input that particular sample as the target.
    Ahh I see. I wiped my Gedmatch after the new law/update. Probably should have saved my coordinates for Vahaduo first lol.

  10. #35
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    ihype02's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-10-16
    Posts
    321
    Points
    2,677
    Level
    14
    Points: 2,677, Level: 14
    Level completed: 76%, Points required for next Level: 73
    Overall activity: 15.0%


    Country: Albania



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Ancient Balkanites before the Slavs were extremely close to Italians. This is not the first time were ancient people of Balkans end close to modern Italians. They were probably nearly indentical in antiquity.

  11. #36
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    ihype02's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-10-16
    Posts
    321
    Points
    2,677
    Level
    14
    Points: 2,677, Level: 14
    Level completed: 76%, Points required for next Level: 73
    Overall activity: 15.0%


    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Sorry for the late response; I just saw this. Very interesting.

    What program was used?

    I asked because based on the work we're doing on the Vahaduo site I don't think the "Illyrian" samples would plot there (i.e. so close to the Spanish samples), although I didn't do a PCA. The Iron Age "Thracian" was described in the original paper as "Tuscan" like. Actually, it looks more to me like Lazio or Campania, but the paper only used 1000 genomes, so obviously Tuscan was the closest they could come.

    As for using this sample to judge the amount of "Slavic" ancestry in the Balkans, I don't think that's necessarily a good idea. By that I mean that this particular "Thracian" might not have been "typical", or at least not all Iron Age Thracians were like him. They might have been, or they might not have been. My recollection is that the Bronze Age samples from that region plot further "north". Did they just pass through, or did they stay and really influence the genetics of a lot of people. The only pretty accurate way to know how much influence the Slavic migrations had is, imo, to get more than one, and hopefully a scattered sample of people from the Balkans from the Imperial Era and then compare them to modern people. I don't think it can be some huge amount of Slavi given how much Neolithic and CHG/Iranian like or what used to be called "West Asian" there still is in the Balkans, but time will tell.

    Distance to: IllyrianDalmatian_I3313
    3.56275646 Italy_Lombardy
    4.78770749 Italy_Emilia
    4.93995082 Italy_Liguria
    5.14574766 Italy_Veneto
    5.39127537 Italy_Piedmont
    6.07536254 Italy_Tuscany
    6.54086099 Swiss_Italian
    7.53474883 Italy_Trentino
    8.14842046 France_Corsica
    8.45013349 Italy_FriuliVG
    8.57974941 Italy_Romagna
    9.78872702 Italy_Aosta_Valley
    11.74627933 Italy_Marche
    12.03777155 Italy_Lazio
    12.29336406 Albanian_North
    12.42080915 Albanian_Kosovo
    14.46197428 Baleares
    16.46757724 Galicia
    17.19215810 Extremadura
    17.51714611 Italy_Abruzzo
    18.13725448 Portuguese
    18.50866554 Murcia
    18.86604092 Andalucia
    19.05735291 Greek
    19.22266111 Castilla_Y_Leon
    The result of the Thracian sample fits the rhyme with most ancient Balkan samples as in being significantly more south-western shifted towards Italy and this result can only be attributed to the Slavic invasion. But seeing some other samples in that map really disappointed me (very close to Spain, Hungary etc) it does not look to me a very accurate presentation. I would rather not come up with conclusions until more data gives enough information.

  12. #37
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    16,510
    Points
    358,192
    Level
    100
    Points: 358,192, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    The result of the Thracian sample fits the rhyme with most ancient Balkan samples as in being significantly more south-western shifted towards Italy and this result can only be attributed to the Slavic invasion. But seeing some other samples in that map really disappointed me (very close to Spain, Hungary etc) it does not look to me a very accurate presentation. I would rather not come up with conclusions until more data gives enough information.
    Since the PCA is based on K15, I agree.

  13. #38
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    kingjohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    05-09-16
    Posts
    354
    Points
    6,395
    Level
    23
    Points: 6,395, Level: 23
    Level completed: 69%, Points required for next Level: 155
    Overall activity: 41.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-M84

    Country: Uruguay



    today modern bulgarians
    score % in central euro
    and east central euro elements in eurogenes k36

    contrary to this iron age thracian woman ......... ( which is expected as those elements were very likely brought by slavic invaders to east balkan region )
    it is a very cool sample :)

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •