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Thread: Bronze Age Balkan DNA

  1. #1
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    6 out of 6 members found this post helpful.

    Bronze Age Balkan DNA

    I have uploaded to GEDmatch Genesis:

    https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map...3.8352/16.1831

    Sample I3313, Bronze Age, 1500-900 BC (from Dalmatia), kit number - SZ6386770

    This one is more north-western than Iron Age Bulgarian:

    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...NA-on-GEDmatch

    Similarity Map:



    K15 PCA Graph:

    Croatians can be modeled as a mix of this sample and modern Belgorod:



    Eurogenes K13:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 North_Atlantic 36.73
    2 West_Med 23.57
    3 East_Med 15.67
    4 Baltic 13.11
    5 West_Asian 8.04
    6 Red_Sea 2.87

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 North_Italian 6.07

    2 Portuguese 6.25
    3 Spanish_Extremadura 6.73
    4 Spanish_Cataluna 6.9
    5 Spanish_Galicia 7.37
    6 Spanish_Murcia 7.51
    7 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 7.79
    8 Spanish_Valencia 7.9
    9 Spanish_Andalucia 8.18
    10 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 8.76
    11 French 9.14
    12 Spanish_Cantabria 10.07
    13 Spanish_Aragon 11.5
    14 Southwest_French 11.53
    15 Tuscan 11.71
    16 West_German 14.36
    17 South_Dutch 14.77
    18 Romanian 16.27
    19 Serbian 16.71
    20 Bulgarian 17.78

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 78.3% North_Italian + 21.7% Southwest_English @ 1.95
    2 80.2% North_Italian + 19.8% West_Scottish @ 1.99
    3 80.1% North_Italian + 19.9% Irish @ 2.02
    4 61% North_Italian + 39% French @ 2.17
    5 79.9% North_Italian + 20.1% Orcadian @ 2.31
    6 78% North_Italian + 22% Southeast_English @ 2.37
    7 80.6% North_Italian + 19.4% North_Dutch @ 2.52
    8 72.6% North_Italian + 27.4% South_Dutch @ 2.56

    9 87.8% Spanish_Cataluna + 12.2% Georgian_Jewish @ 2.57
    10 82.3% North_Italian + 17.7% Norwegian @ 2.69
    11 80.9% North_Italian + 19.1% Danish @ 2.69
    12 87.9% Spanish_Cataluna + 12.1% Kurdish @ 2.78
    13 88.8% Spanish_Cataluna + 11.2% Georgian @ 2.81
    14 86.9% Spanish_Cataluna + 13.1% Kumyk @ 2.82
    15 87.8% Spanish_Cataluna + 12.2% Armenian @ 2.83
    16 87.8% Spanish_Cataluna + 12.2% Adygei @ 2.85
    17 72.5% North_Italian + 27.5% West_German @ 2.86
    18 85.5% Spanish_Cataluna + 14.5% Turkish @ 2.87
    19 86.9% Spanish_Cataluna + 13.1% Azeri @ 2.89
    20 86% Spanish_Valencia + 14% Lezgin @ 2.9

  2. #2
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    3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    In this tool: http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm

    I3313 Bronze Age Dalmatia: Abscisse (x-axis): 338 pixel, Ordonnée (y-axis): 271 pixel
    I5769 Iron Age Bulgaria: Abscisse (x-axis): 446 pixel, Ordonnée (y-axis): 393 pixel

    So there was a west-east cline already in Pre-Slavic Balkans:


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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Can you please do the same thing for I4331 from the Genomic History of Southeastern Europe as well?
    Y-DNA: J-L283
    Maternal Y-DNA: E-V13

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b2-L283
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H2a2a1

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    This isn't the J2b2 L283 sample ? Please upload the J2b2 L283. I could do it also myself but how do you do it ?

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    Very interesting.
    It is known that Celts have been in Balkans, so these tests are rather supporting the idea that Celts came from East Europe and moved towards NW Europe.
    In 1500-900 BC the Celts and the Thracians should have been already in Balkans.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    DNA Land Ancestry Report for this Ancient Dalmatian sample:


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    3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    This is what it gets on MDLP World . Interesting

    MDLP World:# Population Percent
    1 South_and_West_European 52.54
    2 North_and_East_European 20.61
    3 Caucaus_Parsia 14.69
    4 Middle_East 10.95
    5 Sub_Saharian 0.44
    6 Mesoamerican 0.36
    7 Melanesian 0.26
    8 Arctic_Amerind 0.15


    Single Population Sharing:


    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Italian-North 3.09
    2 Italian_North 5.35
    3 Kosovar 6
    4 Corsican 6.22
    5 Provancal 7.13
    6 Romania 7.99
    7 Swiss 8.93
    8 Portugese 9.11
    9 Bulgarian 9.23
    10 Montenegrin 10.04
    11 Gagauz 10.09
    12 Iberian 10.36
    13 Macedonian 10.74
    14 Spaniard 11.06
    15 Greek_North 11.44
    16 Greek_South 11.89

    17 French 12.41
    18 Greek_Center 12.61
    19 Serbian 12.76
    20 Italian-Center 13.38


    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 81.7% Spaniard + 18.3% Georgian_Imereti @ 1.36
    2 61% Kosovar + 39% Bulgarian @ 1.37
    3 79.8% Spaniard + 20.2% Georgian_Laz @ 1.58
    4 64.8% Kosovar + 35.2% Macedonian @ 1.7
    5 63.4% Kosovar + 36.6% Gagauz @ 1.8
    6 78.8% Spaniard + 21.2% Georgian @ 1.8
    7 81.8% Spaniard + 18.2% Abhkasian @ 1.83
    8 54% Basque + 46% Greek_Azov @ 1.92
    9 65% Greek_North + 35% Basque @ 2.02
    10 82.8% Iberian + 17.2% Abhkasian @ 2.2
    11 63.7% Kosovar + 36.3% Montenegrin @ 2.24
    12 90.8% Italian-North + 9.2% British @ 2.31
    13 85.7% Italian-North + 14.3% French @ 2.32
    14 80.1% Iberian + 19.9% Georgian @ 2.33
    15 91.3% Italian-North + 8.7% Orcadian @ 2.33
    16 91.3% Italian-North + 8.7% CEU @ 2.38
    17 87.9% Italian-North + 12.1% German-South @ 2.4
    18 91.9% Italian-North + 8.1% Welsh @ 2.41
    19 77.9% Italian-North + 22.1% Provancal @ 2.43
    20 93.1% Italian-North + 6.9% Norwegian_V @ 2.47

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    All I will say is I feel vindicated.

    Maybe an open mind would help some people, before calling others, conspiracy theorists.

    But then again... Broken clocks, and twice a day xD

    Homer on the other hand is like an atomic clock, right on point.
    Virgil too I guess, LUL @Strabo and his Cyclops.

    Maybe the Illiad, the Argonautica and the Aeneid deserve some more respect.
    “Man cannot live without a permanent trust in something indestructible in himself, and at the same time that indestructible something as well as his trust in it may remain permanently concealed from him.”

    Franz Kafka

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Archetype0ne View Post
    All I will say is I feel vindicated.

    Maybe an open mind would help some people, before calling others, conspiracy theorists.

    But then again... Broken clocks, and twice a day xD

    Homer on the other hand is like an atomic clock, right on point.
    Virgil too I guess, LUL @Strabo and his Cyclops.

    Maybe the Illiad, the Argonautica and the Aeneid deserve some more respect.
    Mmmmmmmm.....atooooomic doughnuuuuuutssss
    mmmmmmmmmm doughnuuuuutz

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b2-L283
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H2a2a1

    Ethnic group
    Kosovar Albanian
    Country: Kosovo



    Puntdnal k10 ancient

    Italian_North 2.052
    Tuscan 5.73
    Albanian 6.214

    Bulgarian 6.865
    Italian_South 7.046
    Greek7.637
    French 8.828
    Spanish_Southwest9.969
    Spanish_Northeast10.7210
    German_South12.5311
    Croatian13.0412
    Sicilian14.1113
    Hungarian14.9614
    Utahn_white15.1715
    Ashkenazi_Jew15.2316
    Irish16.317
    English_South17.3418
    German_North18.9619
    Czech19.1420
    Scottish_West20.75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    I have uploaded to GEDmatch Genesis:

    https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map...3.8352/16.1831

    Sample I3313, Bronze Age, 1500-900 BC (from Dalmatia), kit number - SZ6386770

    This one is more north-western than Iron Age Bulgarian:

    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...NA-on-GEDmatch

    Similarity Map:



    K15 PCA Graph:

    Croatians can be modeled as a mix of this sample and modern Belgorod:



    Eurogenes K13:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 North_Atlantic 36.73
    2 West_Med 23.57
    3 East_Med 15.67
    4 Baltic 13.11
    5 West_Asian 8.04
    6 Red_Sea 2.87

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 North_Italian 6.07

    2 Portuguese 6.25
    3 Spanish_Extremadura 6.73
    4 Spanish_Cataluna 6.9
    5 Spanish_Galicia 7.37
    6 Spanish_Murcia 7.51
    7 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 7.79
    8 Spanish_Valencia 7.9
    9 Spanish_Andalucia 8.18
    10 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 8.76
    11 French 9.14
    12 Spanish_Cantabria 10.07
    13 Spanish_Aragon 11.5
    14 Southwest_French 11.53
    15 Tuscan 11.71
    16 West_German 14.36
    17 South_Dutch 14.77
    18 Romanian 16.27
    19 Serbian 16.71
    20 Bulgarian 17.78

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 78.3% North_Italian + 21.7% Southwest_English @ 1.95
    2 80.2% North_Italian + 19.8% West_Scottish @ 1.99
    3 80.1% North_Italian + 19.9% Irish @ 2.02
    4 61% North_Italian + 39% French @ 2.17
    5 79.9% North_Italian + 20.1% Orcadian @ 2.31
    6 78% North_Italian + 22% Southeast_English @ 2.37
    7 80.6% North_Italian + 19.4% North_Dutch @ 2.52
    8 72.6% North_Italian + 27.4% South_Dutch @ 2.56

    9 87.8% Spanish_Cataluna + 12.2% Georgian_Jewish @ 2.57
    10 82.3% North_Italian + 17.7% Norwegian @ 2.69
    11 80.9% North_Italian + 19.1% Danish @ 2.69
    12 87.9% Spanish_Cataluna + 12.1% Kurdish @ 2.78
    13 88.8% Spanish_Cataluna + 11.2% Georgian @ 2.81
    14 86.9% Spanish_Cataluna + 13.1% Kumyk @ 2.82
    15 87.8% Spanish_Cataluna + 12.2% Armenian @ 2.83
    16 87.8% Spanish_Cataluna + 12.2% Adygei @ 2.85
    17 72.5% North_Italian + 27.5% West_German @ 2.86
    18 85.5% Spanish_Cataluna + 14.5% Turkish @ 2.87
    19 86.9% Spanish_Cataluna + 13.1% Azeri @ 2.89
    20 86% Spanish_Valencia + 14% Lezgin @ 2.9
    I was thinking and it is possible that this sample could belong to an ethnic Celtic, from Balkans.
    If more samples with similar clustering are found in different places from Balkans, only then is possible to say that the Thracians from those times were clustering closer to the North Italians and people from Iberia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    Mmmmmmmm.....atooooomic doughnuuuuuutssss
    Sound delicious, got to try me one of those!


    They do say that many Legends come from seeds of facts.
    Who knows.

  13. #13
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    Another thing, this person could have been 3/4 Thracian and 1/4 Celtic and this would explain so well the results obtained.
    If you do not believe that were Celts in Balkans, they were and this is attested by plenty of archaeological discoveries.
    https://balkancelts.wordpress.com/
    North Italians are Italo-Gaulish/Italo-Celtic mix, this is alto shown by the fact that the Lombard language is Gallo-Romance.
    So, having this person clustering closest to North Italians and Iberians with some Gaulish blood it makes a lot of sense - Thracians were very close to Italic and Iberian people.
    Now, Balkan people got Northern Shifted from mixing to the East Germanics, mostly and also, from Slavs.
    Seems that the mixing with the Celts was also present but we do not know at what extent.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    The sample isn't a Celt because this sample dates back before Celts (Bronze Age) Its just a proto Ilyrian sample or pre historic Balkanite. Celts never reached the Balkans at that time. They came later. And if they did, they would of been like any other Bronze Age or Iron Age invader.

    And its basically like a Northern Albanian Gheg but with a extra North West shift.



    It can basically be moduled as 79% Balkan + 21% NW European / West European

    Balkan in this case being a very vague term.

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    The sample is from between 1500 AD to 900 AD, is written in the initial post.
    Around 1100 AD the Celtic speakers were already on the current land of Austria, in Hallstatt.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallst...tatt_type_site

    It is supposed that in Central Europe, around 1200 BC, the Proto-Celtic language was spoken:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts

    There is no Albanian so Northern shifted and Albanians did mixed somehow with the Goths.
    This is attested by today Albanians paternal lines.
    So most of today Albanians should more Northern Shifted than the Albanians that were living in Albania around 100 AD.
    As a side note, the name Albania comes from Celtic languages, meaning a high land.
    Scotland is still called Albannach because is a more elevated land, not lowlands.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    The sample is from between 1500 AD to 900 AD, is written in the initial post.
    Around 1100 AD the Celtic speakers were already on the current land of Austria, in Hallstatt.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallst...tatt_type_site

    It is supposed that in Central Europe, around 1200 BC, the Proto-Celtic language was spoken:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts

    There is no Albanian so Northern shifted and Albanians did mixed somehow with the Goths.
    This is attested by today Albanians paternal lines.
    So most of today Albanians should more Northern Shifted than the Albanians that were living in Albania around 100 AD.
    As a side note, the name Albania comes from Celtic languages, meaning a high land.
    Scotland is still called Albannach because is a more elevated land, not lowlands.
    Agree on most of your points. According to ancient Greek mythology, Illyrians, Thracians and Celts were related.



    Alp - Alb roots might be related. Depending on geographical location the root might stand for white, while in others it means mountains.

    In Italian Alba means dusk. The side the Sun Rises.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Perhaps it is best to say the Bronze Age dude was simply an Indo-European and could have lacked the local ancient Balkan admixture which gave birth later to Illyrians and Thracians. No need to speculate on his actual ethnicity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    Perhaps it is best to say the Bronze Age dude was simply an Indo-European and could have lacked the local ancient Balkan admixture which gave birth later to Illyrians and Thracians. No need to speculate on his actual ethnicity.
    Ditto Nik. One of the points I had an issue with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archetype0ne View Post
    Agree on most of your points. According to ancient Greek mythology, Illyrians, Thracians and Celts were related.



    Alp - Alb roots might be related. Depending on geographical location the root might stand for white, while in others it means mountains.

    In Italian Alba means dusk. The side the Sun Rises.
    Very interesting.

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    3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    Gash,

    As requested I uploaded also I4331 Ancient Croatia with Y-DNA haplogroup J2b2a.

    GEDmatch Genesis kit number - RL6378186

    This male sample plots similar as the other Bronze Age Dalmatian (woman I3313):

    Eurogenes K15 results:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 North_Sea 23.44
    2 West_Med 22.65
    3 Atlantic 22.42
    4 East_Med 15.28
    5 West_Asian 8.93
    6 Baltic 4.91
    7 Eastern_Euro 1.65
    8 Red_Sea 0.72
    9 Amerindian 0.01

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 North_Italian 6.76
    2 Portuguese 8.96
    3 Spanish_Galicia 9.36
    4 Spanish_Extremadura 9.87
    5 Spanish_Cataluna 9.96
    6 Spanish_Murcia 10.16
    7 Tuscan 10.54
    8 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 10.91
    9 Spanish_Andalucia 11.83
    10 Spanish_Valencia 12.28
    11 French 12.71
    12 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 12.77
    13 Spanish_Cantabria 13.24
    14 Spanish_Aragon 14.36
    15 Southwest_French 15.29
    16 Greek_Thessaly 16.34
    17 Italian_Abruzzo 16.42
    18 West_Sicilian 16.96
    19 South_Dutch 17.54
    20 West_German 17.65

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 83.9% North_Italian + 16.1% West_German @ 5.97
    2 88.7% North_Italian + 11.3% Orcadian @ 6.02
    3 90.2% North_Italian + 9.8% West_Norwegian @ 6.09
    4 87.6% North_Italian + 12.4% Southwest_English @ 6.14
    5 80% North_Italian + 20% French @ 6.17
    6 89.1% North_Italian + 10.9% Southeast_English @ 6.24
    7 90.9% North_Italian + 9.1% Norwegian @ 6.25
    8 90.3% North_Italian + 9.7% North_Dutch @ 6.26
    9 90.7% North_Italian + 9.3% West_Scottish @ 6.29
    10 86.2% Portuguese + 13.8% Armenian @ 6.31
    11 90.8% North_Italian + 9.2% Irish @ 6.33
    12 91.8% North_Italian + 8.2% Swedish @ 6.34
    13 85.3% Spanish_Galicia + 14.7% Armenian @ 6.35
    14 91.2% North_Italian + 8.8% Danish @ 6.36
    15 75.2% North_Italian + 24.8% Spanish_Galicia @ 6.38
    16 88.7% North_Italian + 11.3% South_Dutch @ 6.43
    17 76.7% North_Italian + 23.3% Portuguese @ 6.5
    18 92.4% North_Italian + 7.6% North_German @ 6.51
    19 84.1% Spanish_Cataluna + 15.9% Armenian @ 6.51
    20 55.2% Spanish_Galicia + 44.8% Tuscan @ 6.54



    Similarity Map:



    Eurogenes K13:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 North_Atlantic 34.32
    2 West_Med 26.54
    3 East_Med 18.52
    4 Baltic 11
    5 West_Asian 8.45
    6 Red_Sea 0.92
    7 Amerindian 0.24

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 North_Italian 3.55
    2 Spanish_Andalucia 7.92
    3 Spanish_Extremadura 7.97
    4 Portuguese 8.34
    5 Spanish_Valencia 8.59
    6 Spanish_Murcia 8.74
    7 Tuscan 9.11
    8 Spanish_Cataluna 9.17
    9 Spanish_Galicia 9.71
    10 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 9.86
    11 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 9.94
    12 Spanish_Cantabria 11.66
    13 Spanish_Aragon 12.39
    14 Southwest_French 13.17
    15 French 13.69
    16 West_Sicilian 15.8
    17 Italian_Abruzzo 15.84
    18 Greek_Thessaly 16.64
    19 Romanian 17.28
    20 Bulgarian 18.05

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 90.9% North_Italian + 9.1% French_Basque @ 2.64
    2 77% North_Italian + 23% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.77
    3 54.8% Southwest_French + 45.2% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.78
    4 84.2% Spanish_Valencia + 15.8% Armenian @ 2.81
    5 85.2% North_Italian + 14.8% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.87
    6 81.2% North_Italian + 18.8% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.92
    7 82.4% North_Italian + 17.6% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.93
    8 80.3% North_Italian + 19.7% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.94
    9 84.5% Spanish_Valencia + 15.5% Georgian_Jewish @ 2.96
    10 85.7% North_Italian + 14.3% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.01
    11 87.4% North_Italian + 12.6% Southwest_French @ 3.03
    12 65.9% Spanish_Valencia + 34.1% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.05
    13 70.7% Spanish_Cataluna + 29.3% South_Italian @ 3.05
    14 70.7% Spanish_Valencia + 29.3% Central_Greek @ 3.06
    15 82.5% North_Italian + 17.5% Spanish_Murcia @ 3.1
    16 69.2% Spanish_Cataluna + 30.8% Central_Greek @ 3.14
    17 58% Spanish_Cantabria + 42% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.18
    18 85.7% North_Italian + 14.3% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.18
    19 69.3% Spanish_Andalucia + 30.7% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.19
    20 82.6% North_Italian + 17.4% Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.2

  21. #21
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Gash,

    As requested I uploaded also I4331 Ancient Croatia with Y-DNA haplogroup J2b2a.

    GEDmatch Genesis kit number - RL6378186

    This male sample plots similar as the other Bronze Age Dalmatian (woman I3313):

    Eurogenes K15 results:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 North_Sea 23.44
    2 West_Med 22.65
    3 Atlantic 22.42
    4 East_Med 15.28
    5 West_Asian 8.93
    6 Baltic 4.91
    7 Eastern_Euro 1.65
    8 Red_Sea 0.72
    9 Amerindian 0.01

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 North_Italian 6.76
    2 Portuguese 8.96
    3 Spanish_Galicia 9.36
    4 Spanish_Extremadura 9.87
    5 Spanish_Cataluna 9.96
    6 Spanish_Murcia 10.16
    7 Tuscan 10.54
    8 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 10.91
    9 Spanish_Andalucia 11.83
    10 Spanish_Valencia 12.28
    11 French 12.71
    12 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 12.77
    13 Spanish_Cantabria 13.24
    14 Spanish_Aragon 14.36
    15 Southwest_French 15.29
    16 Greek_Thessaly 16.34
    17 Italian_Abruzzo 16.42
    18 West_Sicilian 16.96
    19 South_Dutch 17.54
    20 West_German 17.65

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 83.9% North_Italian + 16.1% West_German @ 5.97
    2 88.7% North_Italian + 11.3% Orcadian @ 6.02
    3 90.2% North_Italian + 9.8% West_Norwegian @ 6.09
    4 87.6% North_Italian + 12.4% Southwest_English @ 6.14
    5 80% North_Italian + 20% French @ 6.17
    6 89.1% North_Italian + 10.9% Southeast_English @ 6.24
    7 90.9% North_Italian + 9.1% Norwegian @ 6.25
    8 90.3% North_Italian + 9.7% North_Dutch @ 6.26
    9 90.7% North_Italian + 9.3% West_Scottish @ 6.29
    10 86.2% Portuguese + 13.8% Armenian @ 6.31
    11 90.8% North_Italian + 9.2% Irish @ 6.33
    12 91.8% North_Italian + 8.2% Swedish @ 6.34
    13 85.3% Spanish_Galicia + 14.7% Armenian @ 6.35
    14 91.2% North_Italian + 8.8% Danish @ 6.36
    15 75.2% North_Italian + 24.8% Spanish_Galicia @ 6.38
    16 88.7% North_Italian + 11.3% South_Dutch @ 6.43
    17 76.7% North_Italian + 23.3% Portuguese @ 6.5
    18 92.4% North_Italian + 7.6% North_German @ 6.51
    19 84.1% Spanish_Cataluna + 15.9% Armenian @ 6.51
    20 55.2% Spanish_Galicia + 44.8% Tuscan @ 6.54



    Similarity Map:



    Eurogenes K13:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 North_Atlantic 34.32
    2 West_Med 26.54
    3 East_Med 18.52
    4 Baltic 11
    5 West_Asian 8.45
    6 Red_Sea 0.92
    7 Amerindian 0.24

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 North_Italian 3.55
    2 Spanish_Andalucia 7.92
    3 Spanish_Extremadura 7.97
    4 Portuguese 8.34
    5 Spanish_Valencia 8.59
    6 Spanish_Murcia 8.74
    7 Tuscan 9.11
    8 Spanish_Cataluna 9.17
    9 Spanish_Galicia 9.71
    10 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 9.86
    11 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 9.94
    12 Spanish_Cantabria 11.66
    13 Spanish_Aragon 12.39
    14 Southwest_French 13.17
    15 French 13.69
    16 West_Sicilian 15.8
    17 Italian_Abruzzo 15.84
    18 Greek_Thessaly 16.64
    19 Romanian 17.28
    20 Bulgarian 18.05

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 90.9% North_Italian + 9.1% French_Basque @ 2.64
    2 77% North_Italian + 23% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.77
    3 54.8% Southwest_French + 45.2% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.78
    4 84.2% Spanish_Valencia + 15.8% Armenian @ 2.81
    5 85.2% North_Italian + 14.8% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.87
    6 81.2% North_Italian + 18.8% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.92
    7 82.4% North_Italian + 17.6% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.93
    8 80.3% North_Italian + 19.7% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.94
    9 84.5% Spanish_Valencia + 15.5% Georgian_Jewish @ 2.96
    10 85.7% North_Italian + 14.3% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.01
    11 87.4% North_Italian + 12.6% Southwest_French @ 3.03
    12 65.9% Spanish_Valencia + 34.1% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.05
    13 70.7% Spanish_Cataluna + 29.3% South_Italian @ 3.05
    14 70.7% Spanish_Valencia + 29.3% Central_Greek @ 3.06
    15 82.5% North_Italian + 17.5% Spanish_Murcia @ 3.1
    16 69.2% Spanish_Cataluna + 30.8% Central_Greek @ 3.14
    17 58% Spanish_Cantabria + 42% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.18
    18 85.7% North_Italian + 14.3% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.18
    19 69.3% Spanish_Andalucia + 30.7% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.19
    20 82.6% North_Italian + 17.4% Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.2
    Great work mate! Much appreciated.

    I don't want to waste your time with requests as you've already done a lot, but I keep wondering what would be the score on the Similarity Map if you single out only Gheg Albanian or North Albanian samples as that would leave out the vast majority of Slavic and Vlach admixture.

    I wonder if the score instead of 65 would be around 71 since Epirus in Greece is 59, therefore South Albania should be lets say 59-61.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    Great work mate! Much appreciated.
    I don't want to waste your time with requests as you've already done a lot, but I keep wondering what would be the score on the Similarity Map if you single out only Gheg Albanian or North Albanian samples as that would leave out the vast majority of Slavic and Vlach admixture.
    I wonder if the score instead of 65 would be around 71 since Epirus in Greece is 59, therefore South Albania should be lets say 59-61.
    Slavic ancestry is unlikely to be the only thing pulling the Western Balkans away from that sample. There seems to be an additional layer of West Asian ancestry, which makes the Bronze Age Croatian sample look rather 'western' compared to the people who live in the region today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markod View Post
    Slavic ancestry is unlikely to be the only thing pulling the Western Balkans away from that sample. There seems to be an additional layer of West Asian ancestry, which makes the Bronze Age Croatian sample look rather 'western' compared to the people who live in the region today.
    Croats plot pretty much between BA Croatia and East Slavs. Bulgarian case is, however, more interesting.
    Neopisivo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonomyro View Post
    Croats plot pretty much between BA Croatia and East Slavs. Bulgarian case is, however, more interesting.
    Yeah, Thrace should be one of the entry points of metal age West Asian ancestry into mainland Europe. Heavy Slavic input muddies things a bit, so it's difficult to say much more without ancient samples.

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    3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    I uploaded Bronze Age Bulgarian I2163, whose Y-DNA was R1a (but Indo-Iranian branch Z93, not Slavic):

    https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map...2.1360/25.5602

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimitrovgrad,_Bulgaria



    GEDmatch Genesis kit number - MW2273712

    Eurogenes K15 results:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 North_Sea 35.52
    2 Eastern_Euro 19.23
    3 Baltic 13.65
    4 Atlantic 13.45
    5 West_Asian 12.95
    6 South_Asian 3.15
    7 Amerindian 2.05

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 North_Swedish 13.52
    2 Swedish 15.34
    3 Finnish 15.54
    4 Southwest_Finnish 15.82
    5 Norwegian 15.93
    6 East_German 17.21
    7 North_German 17.24
    8 West_Norwegian 17.25
    9 Danish 17.71
    10 Hungarian 17.94
    11 East_Finnish 18.02
    12 North_Dutch 18.06
    13 West_German 18.34
    14 South_Polish 19.7
    15 Ukrainian_Lviv 19.72
    16 Ukrainian 19.84
    17 Estonian 20.15
    18 Orcadian 20.35
    19 West_Scottish 20.42
    20 South_Dutch 20.48

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 75.5% North_Swedish + 24.5% Tabassaran @ 7.58
    2 77.6% North_Swedish + 22.4% Lezgin @ 8.3
    3 79% North_Swedish + 21% Chechen @ 8.67
    4 73.4% Swedish + 26.6% Tabassaran @ 9.11
    5 81.6% North_Swedish + 18.4% Adygei @ 9.45
    6 82.1% North_Swedish + 17.9% Ossetian @ 9.52
    7 72.7% Norwegian + 27.3% Tabassaran @ 9.53
    8 80.9% North_Swedish + 19.1% Kabardin @ 9.57
    9 80.3% North_Swedish + 19.7% Afghan_Pashtun @ 9.58
    10 82.5% North_Swedish + 17.5% Kalash @ 9.59
    11 80.1% North_Swedish + 19.9% Kumyk @ 9.61
    12 82.3% North_Swedish + 17.7% North_Ossetian @ 9.62
    13 84.8% North_Swedish + 15.2% Abhkasian @ 9.66
    14 81.6% North_Swedish + 18.4% Balkar @ 9.72
    15 75.6% Swedish + 24.4% Lezgin @ 9.77
    16 84.2% North_Swedish + 15.8% Georgian @ 9.81
    17 70.5% West_Norwegian + 29.5% Tabassaran @ 9.87
    18 83.5% North_Swedish + 16.5% Balochi @ 10.04
    19 74.8% Norwegian + 25.2% Lezgin @ 10.11
    20 84% North_Swedish + 16% Brahui @ 10.13

    Eurogenes K15 PCA:

    Abscisse (x-axis): 534 pixel, Ordonnée (y-axis): 144 pixel



    Similarity Maps:

    Russia & Asia:



    And Europe:



    ^^^
    From Eurogenes Blog:

    https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/...e-balkans.html

    "Bulgaria_MLBA I2163: Y-hg R1a1a1b2 mt-hg U5a2 1750-1625 calBCE

    The most Yamnaya-like of all of the Balkan samples in Mathieson et al. 2017, and, as far as I can see based on his overall genome-wide results, probably indistinguishable from the contemporaneous Srubnaya people of the Pontic-Caspian steppe. He also belongs to Y-haplogroup R1a-Z93, which is a marker typical of Srubnaya and other closely related steppe groups such as Andronovo, Potapovka and Sintashta. So there's very little doubt that he's either a migrant or a recent descendant of migrants to the Balkans from the Pontic-Caspian steppe."

    =====

    Edit:

    Some more calcs:

    His results in puntDNAL K12:

    puntDNAL K12 Ancient Oracle

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 European_HG 45.79
    2 Caucasus_HG 27.88
    3 Anatolian_NF 19.89
    4 Beringian 3.41
    5 Amerindian 1.41
    6 South_Asian 1.31

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Srubnaya_I0232 @ 3.134314
    2 Sintashta_MBA_RISE395 @ 3.797682
    3 Corded_Ware_Germany_I0103 @ 3.900799
    4 Andronovo_SG_RISE505 @ 4.797025
    5 Corded_Ware_Germany_I0104 @ 5.052248
    6 Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386 @ 5.825454
    7 Srubnaya_I0430 @ 7.175141
    8 Potapovka_I0419 @ 7.469271
    9 Corded_Ware_Estonia_RISE00 @ 8.079706
    10 BattleAxe_Sweden_SG_RISE94 @ 11.250714
    11 Bell_Beaker_Czech_RISE569 @ 12.764265
    12 Bell_Beaker_Germany_I1549 @ 13.424397
    13 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN_I0059 @ 13.650426
    14 Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97 @ 14.740792
    15 Unetice_EBA_I0117 @ 14.801845
    16 Halberstadt_LBA_I0099 @ 14.956509
    17 Yamnaya_Samara_I0443 @ 15.883912
    18 Alberstedt_LN_I0118 @ 16.527464
    19 Scythian_IA_I0247 @ 16.988422
    20 Afanasievo_SG_RISE511 @ 19.113752

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Andronovo_SG_RISE505 +50% Srubnaya_I0232 @ 2.810591

    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Andronovo_SG_RISE505 +25% Srubnaya_I0232 +25% Srubnaya_I0232 @ 2.810591

    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 Andronovo_SG_RISE505 + Srubnaya_I0232 + Srubnaya_I0232 + Srubnaya_I0232 @ 2.597268
    (...)

    His results in MDLP K11:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 WHG 40.86
    2 EHG 31.94
    3 Neolithic 14.98
    4 Iran-Mesolithic 7.98
    5 Amerindian 2.13

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Srubnaya_LBA @ 4.859118
    2 Sintashta_MBA @ 4.960232
    3 Andronovo_Eneolithic @ 7.546394
    4 Corded_Ware_Germany @ 7.561746
    5 Corded_Ware_Germany @ 8.130066
    6 Poltavka_MBA_outlier @ 8.672397
    7 Corded_Ware_Estonia @ 9.067833
    8 Nordic_BattleAxe @ 10.487313
    9 Potapovka_BA @ 10.598248
    10 Srubnaya_LBA_outlier @ 10.608652
    11 Corded_Ware_Proto_Unetice_Poland @ 11.877763
    12 Irish_BA @ 12.260816
    13 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN @ 12.415079
    14 Nordic_BA @ 12.691585
    15 Karsdorf_LN @ 13.087960
    16 Nordic_LN @ 13.605470
    17 Nordic_IA @ 13.647160
    18 Unetice_MBA @ 13.749290
    19 Unetice_EBA @ 14.416342
    20 Nordic_LBA @ 14.966543

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Nordic_BattleAxe +50% Potapovka_BA @ 1.818545

    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Afanasievo_Eneolithic +25% Hungary_BA +25% Sintashta_MBA @ 1.350623

    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 Hungary_BA + Sintashta_MBA + Yamnaya_Kalmykia_LBA + Yamnaya_Kalmykia_LBA @ 1.237987
    (...)

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