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Thread: Early Levantine adventurers

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    Early Levantine adventurers

    Levantine Neolithic people appear to have left isolated traces of offspring in various parts of Europe, whilst having little overall genetic impact on early European populations. However, their DNA appears in some of the most striking archaeological samples, so might their impact have outweighed their genetic contributions?

    As an example, the Varna chief ANI152 buried c. 4,500 BC with the largest horde of gold ever found in an ancient grave. His DNA looks 50:50 Levantine:East European; his yDNA T(xT1) Levantine; his mtDNA U2 steppic. Given his phylogeny, his autosomal mix and the cross-datings between Varna samples, I would best-estimate his genetic ancestry as something along these lines -
    Great great grandparents (father's side) - all Levantine (including yDNA source).
    Great great grandparents (mother's side) - Romanian Tisza x 6, and Ukrainian Neolithic x 1 mixed with SC Steppe Khvalynsk (including mtDNA source, R1b-derived) x 1.

    How and why might ANI152's paternal ancestor/s have migrated to Bulgaria all the way from the Levant?
    How might such an outsider of diverse ethnicity as him have achieved such high status and acquired such wealth in Varna?

    (Additional features of note:
    1. ANI152's maternal ancestral best-fit sources help trace a possible SW movement of Khvalynsk/Suvorovo through Ukraine and Romania
    2. It shows Khvalynsk/Suvorovo as likely admixing, rather than exclusively raiding and conflicting
    3. It suggests that westwards-migrating steppic lineages were not exclusively males mating with local females, but also females mating with local males.
    4. It identfies Varna as a likely ethnic melting pot.)

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    Not sure. But if you talk about Early European Neolithic their contribution goes to all Europe. Now in the Balkans there is an additional layer of late Bronze Age Metal West Asian makers/blacksmith, I guess you are talking about them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Govan View Post
    Not sure. But if you talk about Early European Neolithic their contribution goes to all Europe. Now in the Balkans there is an additional layer of late Bronze Age Metal West Asian makers/blacksmith, I guess you are talking about them?
    I'm talking about specifically Levantine (rather than Anatolian) contributions, which look quite sparse in Europe, but are dotted in a few substantial chunks over Chalcolithic and Bronze Age Europe before seeming to peter out - the Varna Levantine male lineage did in any case (his yDNA barely exists today, despite the fellow sporting a gold penis sheath).

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    Wait, isn't T(xT1) actually just T*? Couldn't this T related with the Cris individuals T1a1 or T1a1a? At least on the migration process.

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    Quote Originally Posted by halfalp View Post
    Wait, isn't T(xT1) actually just T*? Couldn't this T related with the Cris individuals T1a1 or T1a1a? At least on the migration process.
    Yes, it could be. They are not close autosomally, but that would be understandable, as the Cris people lived 1,000 years beforehand. Despite T1a1 being more closely associated with the Middle East than T*, the Cris individuals bear no signs of Levantine DNA, which presumably had diluted away through admixture to next to nothing. I would say that either the ancestors of the Varna chief came with them, but remained tightly in-bred, or (probably more likely) arrived in a later wave.

    There are several examples of substantial chunks of Levantine DNA being found in scattered individuals, but not present or lasting within the general surrounding population. It suggests to me a pattern of long distance adventuring, perhaps maritime? - although would it be a little too early for this?

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    David Reich writes in his book: "From 5000 BCE until 3000 BCE, we observed a steady influx into the steppe of a population whose ancestors traced their origin to the south".

    The South probably means for this situation(Y-DNA T) the Upper Mesopotamia / South Eastern Anatolia (of the Fertile Crescent).

    I think that these Southern people with Y-DNA T were the natives of the Jarmo/Hassuna/Halaf/Ubaid cultures.

    As seen from the Peqi'in Cave(Levant, 4500–3900/3800 BCE), where Y-DNA T was found, these people migrated from homeland Upper Mesopotamia / South Eastern Anatolia to the Levant, starting from the PPNB times.

    It is also probable that the migration of the Southern people to the Steppe happened a bit earlier than 5000 BCE, maybe starting in the beginning of the 6th millenium.

    Knowing that the Malak Preslavets individuals are dated to 5800‒5400 BCE, it means that people from the South with Y-DNA T, had ongoing migrations to the Steppe starting from the 6th millenium.
    The migration routes can be "from the Fertile Crescent, through Southern Caucasus, into the Steppe(T was found in the Ipatovo Kurgan of Steppe Maykop culture), going to the western edge of the Black Sea into Bulgaria(Malak Preslavets)".
    And another route is with the Early European Farmers: "from the Fertile Crescent through Western Turkey into Bulgaria(Malak Preslavets)".
    Either way, there seems to be a repetitive migration road. Maybe the Varna Culture(4400-4100 BCE) Elite Burial(with the golds) was from a group of migrants whose ancestors were the same as the ancestors of the migrants that went from homeland(Upper Mesopotamia / South Eastern Anatolia) into the Peqiin Cave(Ghassulian Culture).

    As seen from the Maykop study, native(Upper Mesopotamia, South Eastern Turkey and Western Iran/Southern Caucasus) people(with Sumerian Language) from the South with Y-DNA G, J, L, T, migrated into the Steppe, brought their culture(Kurgan/Tumulus, Gold, Metal, Distinct types of Pottery), and mixed(culturally, language, genetics etc.) with the natives of the Steppe. The Varna burials(G, T and R1b) are an example of the mixing of between the two groups. Another example, the "Vinca culture writings" are proof of migration of Native Mesopotamian people into the Balkans.

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    A similar example to ANI152 is I2426, found at Sushina (100 km away from ANI152 at Varna) and dated to around 100-200 years later.

    Autosomally, I2426 looks even more Levantine - 75% Levantine and 25% indigenous (no steppic admixture). There is no Levantine DNA in earlier Bulgarian samples, but traces of it in later-dated samples.

    I2426's yDNA is indeterminate, but its mtDNA is K1, which also looks potentially Levantine. I would suggest its ancestors arrived in Bulgaria along the same route as the ancestor of ANI152 not too long before the dates attributed to the samples.

    Could copper have been the pull factor, perhaps following decline/contamination of sites along the Jordan?

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    Quote Originally Posted by suyindik View Post
    David Reich writes in his book: "From 5000 BCE until 3000 BCE, we observed a steady influx into the steppe of a population whose ancestors traced their origin to the south".

    The South probably means for this situation(Y-DNA T) the Upper Mesopotamia / South Eastern Anatolia (of the Fertile Crescent).

    I think that these Southern people with Y-DNA T were the natives of the Jarmo/Hassuna/Halaf/Ubaid cultures.

    As seen from the Peqi'in Cave(Levant, 4500–3900/3800 BCE), where Y-DNA T was found, these people migrated from homeland Upper Mesopotamia / South Eastern Anatolia to the Levant, starting from the PPNB times.

    It is also probable that the migration of the Southern people to the Steppe happened a bit earlier than 5000 BCE, maybe starting in the beginning of the 6th millenium.

    Knowing that the Malak Preslavets individuals are dated to 5800‒5400 BCE, it means that people from the South with Y-DNA T, had ongoing migrations to the Steppe starting from the 6th millenium.
    The migration routes can be "from the Fertile Crescent, through Southern Caucasus, into the Steppe(T was found in the Ipatovo Kurgan of Steppe Maykop culture), going to the western edge of the Black Sea into Bulgaria(Malak Preslavets)".
    And another route is with the Early European Farmers: "from the Fertile Crescent through Western Turkey into Bulgaria(Malak Preslavets)".
    Either way, there seems to be a repetitive migration road. Maybe the Varna Culture(4400-4100 BCE) Elite Burial(with the golds) was from a group of migrants whose ancestors were the same as the ancestors of the migrants that went from homeland(Upper Mesopotamia / South Eastern Anatolia) into the Peqiin Cave(Ghassulian Culture).

    As seen from the Maykop study, native(Upper Mesopotamia, South Eastern Turkey and Western Iran/Southern Caucasus) people(with Sumerian Language) from the South with Y-DNA G, J, L, T, migrated into the Steppe, brought their culture(Kurgan/Tumulus, Gold, Metal, Distinct types of Pottery), and mixed(culturally, language, genetics etc.) with the natives of the Steppe. The Varna burials(G, T and R1b) are an example of the mixing of between the two groups. Another example, the "Vinca culture writings" are proof of migration of Native Mesopotamian people into the Balkans.
    Thanks for this information. Very interesting. Perhaps the Ghassulian and Varna people even remained connected, and were some kind of early copper-producing network?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pip View Post
    Thanks for this information. Very interesting. Perhaps the Ghassulian and Varna people even remained connected, and were some kind of early copper-producing network?
    Yes, could be. And in the later period, between the 4th and 3th millenium, this connection network area was maybe extended with the regions of: the Sumerians, BMAC people, Harappans, Maykop people, Kura Araxes people. And later after the Iron Age, the network of this civilization was maybe represented by the Etruscans in the West, and the Tien Shan mountain tribes(Kangju, Saka, Huns, Karluk, Karakhanids) in the East(BMAC populations mixed with people from the Steppe, but the language being from the native Mesopotamians)

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    Quote Originally Posted by suyindik View Post
    David Reich writes in his book: "From 5000 BCE until 3000 BCE, we observed a steady influx into the steppe of a population whose ancestors traced their origin to the south".

    The South probably means for this situation(Y-DNA T) the Upper Mesopotamia / South Eastern Anatolia (of the Fertile Crescent).

    I think that these Southern people with Y-DNA T were the natives of the Jarmo/Hassuna/Halaf/Ubaid cultures.

    As seen from the Peqi'in Cave(Levant, 4500–3900/3800 BCE), where Y-DNA T was found, these people migrated from homeland Upper Mesopotamia / South Eastern Anatolia to the Levant, starting from the PPNB times.

    It is also probable that the migration of the Southern people to the Steppe happened a bit earlier than 5000 BCE, maybe starting in the beginning of the 6th millenium.

    Knowing that the Malak Preslavets individuals are dated to 5800‒5400 BCE, it means that people from the South with Y-DNA T, had ongoing migrations to the Steppe starting from the 6th millenium.
    The migration routes can be "from the Fertile Crescent, through Southern Caucasus, into the Steppe(T was found in the Ipatovo Kurgan of Steppe Maykop culture), going to the western edge of the Black Sea into Bulgaria(Malak Preslavets)".
    And another route is with the Early European Farmers: "from the Fertile Crescent through Western Turkey into Bulgaria(Malak Preslavets)".
    Either way, there seems to be a repetitive migration road. Maybe the Varna Culture(4400-4100 BCE) Elite Burial(with the golds) was from a group of migrants whose ancestors were the same as the ancestors of the migrants that went from homeland(Upper Mesopotamia / South Eastern Anatolia) into the Peqiin Cave(Ghassulian Culture).

    As seen from the Maykop study, native(Upper Mesopotamia, South Eastern Turkey and Western Iran/Southern Caucasus) people(with Sumerian Language) from the South with Y-DNA G, J, L, T, migrated into the Steppe, brought their culture(Kurgan/Tumulus, Gold, Metal, Distinct types of Pottery), and mixed(culturally, language, genetics etc.) with the natives of the Steppe. The Varna burials(G, T and R1b) are an example of the mixing of between the two groups. Another example, the "Vinca culture writings" are proof of migration of Native Mesopotamian people into the Balkans.
    The south in terms of y-dna lineage can be anything at this point, really. Like T, J2b, L2.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pip View Post
    Levantine Neolithic people appear to have left isolated traces of offspring in various parts of Europe, whilst having little overall genetic impact on early European populations. However, their DNA appears in some of the most striking archaeological samples, so might their impact have outweighed their genetic contributions?
    As an example, the Varna chief ANI152 buried c. 4,500 BC with the largest horde of gold ever found in an ancient grave. His DNA looks 50:50 Levantine:East European; his yDNA T(xT1) Levantine; his mtDNA U2 steppic. Given his phylogeny, his autosomal mix and the cross-datings between Varna samples, I would best-estimate his genetic ancestry as something along these lines -
    Great great grandparents (father's side) - all Levantine (including yDNA source).
    Great great grandparents (mother's side) - Romanian Tisza x 6, and Ukrainian Neolithic x 1 mixed with SC Steppe Khvalynsk (including mtDNA source, R1b-derived) x 1.
    How and why might ANI152's paternal ancestor/s have migrated to Bulgaria all the way from the Levant?
    How might such an outsider of diverse ethnicity as him have achieved such high status and acquired such wealth in Varna?
    (Additional features of note:
    1. ANI152's maternal ancestral best-fit sources help trace a possible SW movement of Khvalynsk/Suvorovo through Ukraine and Romania
    2. It shows Khvalynsk/Suvorovo as likely admixing, rather than exclusively raiding and conflicting
    3. It suggests that westwards-migrating steppic lineages were not exclusively males mating with local females, but also females mating with local males.
    4. It identfies Varna as a likely ethnic melting pot.)
    https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/es/map...#4/41.77/28.96
    .
    all ancient T samples found so far.....it is still being updated
    The Purple squares are samples found with only original T-M184 marker and negative for all other branches of T
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by halfalp View Post
    The south in terms of y-dna lineage can be anything at this point, really. Like T, J2b, L2.
    Yes, G, J, L, T probably, but what i meant is that the term "South" is a very broad region, which could be split into two pieces, "Southern Caucasus/Western Iran"(Eastern part) and "Upper Mesopotamia/South Eastern Turkey"(Western Part).

    David Reich also writes in his book the following:
    At 8000 BCE there were at least Four Major populations in West Eurasia:

    -The Farmers of the Fertile Crescent
    -The Farmers of Iran
    -The Hunter-gatherers of Central and Western Europe
    -The Hunter-gatherers of Eastern Europe

    All these populations differed from one another as much as Europeans differ from East Asians today.
    I think the group "Farmers of the Fertile Crescent" should be splitted into two groups before 8000 BCE: "Levant" and "Mesopotamia/South Eastern Turkey".
    If we consider the natives of the "Levant(and Northern Africa)" to belong to Y-DNA E, then I think the natives of "Mesopotamia/South Eastern Turkey" should belong to Y-DNA L and T(or maybe even G, J, L, T).
    And the natives of the group "The Farmers of Iran"(before 8000 BCE there were hunter gatherers) could be the hunter gatherers of "Southern Caucasus/Western Iran", and I think they should belong to Y-DNA G and J(or maybe even G, J, L, T).

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    I'm inclined to think the Varna chief's recent male ancestry was from the Levant, as (i) this is what his autosomal DNA suggests, (ii) DNA from the apparently linked Sushina sample is even more clearly Levantine and (iii) the oldest T samples are there. However, as my estimate from autosomal data is that ANI152 had a splash of Iranian in his DNA and as yDNA T* is also found in Iran and Armenia, I'm open to the possibility that he also had some sort of ancestral contribution from the East.

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    Other isolated European samples with substantial (rough estimate 40%) Levantine contributions -

    Salzmunde I0802, NE Germany - 3,200 BC
    Gokhem 2, S Sweden - 2,950 BC
    RISE1, NW Poland - 2,720 BC

    Due to similar dates and locations, I would suggest each acquired their Levantine contribution from the same source (probably a different source to the Balkan samples). Their yDNA and mtDNA are either indeterminate or give no further clues to any outlier status. Neither am I aware of any signs of movements of Levantine yDNA or mtDNA towards North Central Europe at around that time - unless anyone else has any suggestions?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pip View Post
    How and why might ANI152's paternal ancestor/s have migrated to Bulgaria all the way from the Levant?

    How might such an outsider of diverse ethnicity as him have achieved such high status and acquired such wealth in Varna?
    Why assume he is an "outsider"? He may simply have been part of a royal, priestly, or royal caste that practiced some degree of endogamy. A consummate "insider", in other words, who traced back to the founding of the original settlement. Or, perhaps he belonged to a later group that brought the metallurgical arts from the Levant, spurring trade and, thus, wealth, at least for some, at the top. He could have been the son of a "lord" and a concubine, who rose to the top through military exploit.

    Nor can we assume that the society's economic basis was stable and invulnerable to disruption. Surplus wealth would have been accumulated through trade or warfare. Drought could have undercut the ability of the society to feed itself. Disruption or severing of trade ties, with suppliers (sellers) and/or customers (buyers) could also have been a driver. Towns could also have fallen into internecine warfare over over-farmed land, leaving them vulnerable to being picked off by an external force, one-by-one.

    Interestingly, 4200 BC, which was about when Varna collapsed, corresponded with the rise of the Akkadians in the upper Tigris/Euphrates, liberating them from Sumerian suzerainty:

    In South Mesopotamia the [Ubaid] period is the earliest known period on the alluvial plain although it is likely earlier periods exist obscured under the alluvium.[3] In the south it has a very long duration between about 6500 and 3800 BC when it is replaced by the Uruk period.[4]

    In North Mesopotamia the period runs only between about 5300 and 4300 BC.[4] It is preceded by the Halaf period and the Halaf-Ubaid Transitional period and succeeded by the Late Chalcolithic period.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubaid_period

    "North Mesopotamia" is, of course, Akkad, although long before it became an empire, superseding the Ubaids throughout the region. Still, if it succeeded in seceding from the Sumerian/Ubaid "union" around 4300 BC, it could have disrupted far-flung trade links and routes, perhaps being the tipping point that caused an "outpost" such as Varna to topple (and which was possibly already ripe to fall).

    I agree that there is no need of a steppic juggernaut to overthrow a society that may have already long since seen its best days. No invasion would have been necessary - only the inability to keep the cattle, goats, and sheep of interlopers out of the "fields", breaking the link between "town and country", without which no civilization can persist.
    "I think Marija's 'kurgan hypothesis' has been magnificently vindicated by recent work." --Lord Colin Renfrew, 4/18/2018.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    ANI152 / VAR43 - Varna chalcolithic necropolis - Y T-M184

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    Natufians -> their descendants seem really interested in being merchants/traders etc.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    The "separate" farming groups of the Near East didn't stay separate for long. The first Anatolian farmers who came to Europe already had "Natufian" like ancestry, and the beginnings of Zagros ancestry too.

    Succeeding waves carried more Caucasus like ancestry.

    There's also the fact that the Greek Neolithic was a bit different.

    In the Near East, everyone mixed. Caucasus like ancestry moved south and west, and Anatolian like ancestry moved north and east. Yes, there's a cline, with Caucasus like ancestry increasing as you go north, but Anatolian like ancestry made it all the way to the Armenians.

    As for places like Iraq, there were large tribal movements into it in the Muslim period, and into Jordan, so things changed again.

    If you're getting this stronger "Levantine" signal based on amateur analysis I would be very wary. The academics have analyzed them, and personally I would stick with that.


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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyDonkey View Post
    Why assume he is an "outsider"? He may simply have been part of a royal, priestly, or royal caste that practiced some degree of endogamy. A consummate "insider", in other words, who traced back to the founding of the original settlement. Or, perhaps he belonged to a later group that brought the metallurgical arts from the Levant, spurring trade and, thus, wealth, at least for some, at the top. He could have been the son of a "lord" and a concubine, who rose to the top through military exploit.

    Nor can we assume that the society's economic basis was stable and invulnerable to disruption. Surplus wealth would have been accumulated through trade or warfare. Drought could have undercut the ability of the society to feed itself. Disruption or severing of trade ties, with suppliers (sellers) and/or customers (buyers) could also have been a driver. Towns could also have fallen into internecine warfare over over-farmed land, leaving them vulnerable to being picked off by an external force, one-by-one.

    Interestingly, 4200 BC, which was about when Varna collapsed, corresponded with the rise of the Akkadians in the upper Tigris/Euphrates, liberating them from Sumerian suzerainty:



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubaid_period

    "North Mesopotamia" is, of course, Akkad, although long before it became an empire, superseding the Ubaids throughout the region. Still, if it succeeded in seceding from the Sumerian/Ubaid "union" around 4300 BC, it could have disrupted far-flung trade links and routes, perhaps being the tipping point that caused an "outpost" such as Varna to topple (and which was possibly already ripe to fall).

    I agree that there is no need of a steppic juggernaut to overthrow a society that may have already long since seen its best days. No invasion would have been necessary - only the inability to keep the cattle, goats, and sheep of interlopers out of the "fields", breaking the link between "town and country", without which no civilization can persist.
    The Akkadian period is dated to the end of the 3th millennium(starting from around 2300 BCE). Before this, existed a civilization that spoke a different language than the Akkadians. Before 2300 BCE Mesopotamia was ruled by the Early Dynastic Period, Sumerians, Uruk, Ubaid, Halaf, Hassuna, Jarmo and earlier cultures. These all spoke the same Sumerian language, but different from the Akkadians.
    The Akkadians came into Northern Mesopotamia at the end of the 3th millennium from Southern regions, replacing the Sumerian language with the Akkadian language, but adopting many of the Sumerian cultural elements.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyDonkey View Post
    Why assume he is an "outsider"? He may simply have been part of a royal, priestly, or royal caste that practiced some degree of endogamy. A consummate "insider", in other words, who traced back to the founding of the original settlement. Or, perhaps he belonged to a later group that brought the metallurgical arts from the Levant, spurring trade and, thus, wealth, at least for some, at the top. He could have been the son of a "lord" and a concubine, who rose to the top through military exploit.
    Perhaps outsider was the wrong word. I meant someone who looked different to the other Varna samples. Yes, either of your explanations are possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    The "separate" farming groups of the Near East didn't stay separate for long. The first Anatolian farmers who came to Europe already had "Natufian" like ancestry, and the beginnings of Zagros ancestry too.

    Succeeding waves carried more Caucasus like ancestry.

    There's also the fact that the Greek Neolithic was a bit different.

    In the Near East, everyone mixed. Caucasus like ancestry moved south and west, and Anatolian like ancestry moved north and east. Yes, there's a cline, with Caucasus like ancestry increasing as you go north, but Anatolian like ancestry made it all the way to the Armenians.

    As for places like Iraq, there were large tribal movements into it in the Muslim period, and into Jordan, so things changed again.

    If you're getting this stronger "Levantine" signal based on amateur analysis I would be very wary. The academics have analyzed them, and personally I would stick with that.
    There is either no or very little Natufian content in the vast majority of early European samples.

    What have the academics said about the Levantine signals attached to these particular samples? Have they analysed the Levantine content and come up with a different answer? If they have, I would be interested to see it. If they have not, then I see no good reason to dispute it, particularly as one of the samples has a Middle Eastern yDNA lineage.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pip View Post
    Levantine Neolithic people appear to have left isolated traces of offspring in various parts of Europe, whilst having little overall genetic impact on early European populations. However, their DNA appears in some of the most striking archaeological samples, so might their impact have outweighed their genetic contributions?
    As an example, the Varna chief ANI152 buried c. 4,500 BC with the largest horde of gold ever found in an ancient grave. His DNA looks 50:50 Levantine:East European; his yDNA T(xT1) Levantine; his mtDNA U2 steppic. Given his phylogeny, his autosomal mix and the cross-datings between Varna samples, I would best-estimate his genetic ancestry as something along these lines -
    Great great grandparents (father's side) - all Levantine (including yDNA source).
    Great great grandparents (mother's side) - Romanian Tisza x 6, and Ukrainian Neolithic x 1 mixed with SC Steppe Khvalynsk (including mtDNA source, R1b-derived) x 1.
    How and why might ANI152's paternal ancestor/s have migrated to Bulgaria all the way from the Levant?
    How might such an outsider of diverse ethnicity as him have achieved such high status and acquired such wealth in Varna?
    (Additional features of note:
    1. ANI152's maternal ancestral best-fit sources help trace a possible SW movement of Khvalynsk/Suvorovo through Ukraine and Romania
    2. It shows Khvalynsk/Suvorovo as likely admixing, rather than exclusively raiding and conflicting
    3. It suggests that westwards-migrating steppic lineages were not exclusively males mating with local females, but also females mating with local males.
    4. It identfies Varna as a likely ethnic melting pot.)
    this place is not far from Varna .....2 x T ydna there also
    https://www.academia.edu/2701415/Mal...tan_2013_29-34
    .
    that place connects with the iron gates
    https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/sites/...athieson_2.pdf

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pip View Post
    There is either no or very little Natufian content in the vast majority of early European samples.

    What have the academics said about the Levantine signals attached to these particular samples? Have they analysed the Levantine content and come up with a different answer? If they have, I would be interested to see it. If they have not, then I see no good reason to dispute it, particularly as one of the samples has a Middle Eastern yDNA lineage.
    Mathiesen et al analyzed those samples.

    This is an excerpt from the Admixture analysis.


    You can find the whole thing on page 18 here:
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/bior...35616.full.pdf

    This is the latest list of y calls of which I'm aware. The complete list is in the paper.


    Even if the Varna chief carried a "T" ydna that is not a "Near Eastern" y dna, or at least not any more so than all the G2a.

    No academic has ever proposed that there was a specific "Levantine" migration to Europe during these periods. The Anatolian farmers who came to Europe had some "Levantine" admixture, whether they came from sources closer to modern day Syria or northwestern Anatolia, but that's it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Mathiesen et al analyzed those samples.

    This is an excerpt from the Admixture analysis.


    You can find the whole thing on page 18 here:
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/bior...35616.full.pdf

    This is the latest list of y calls of which I'm aware. The complete list is in the paper.


    Even if the Varna chief carried a "T" ydna that is not a "Near Eastern" y dna, or at least not any more so than all the G2a.

    No academic has ever proposed that there was a specific "Levantine" migration to Europe during these periods. The Anatolian farmers who came to Europe had some "Levantine" admixture, whether they came from sources closer to modern day Syria or northwestern Anatolia, but that's it.

    Quite typically for academic studies, these analyses look pretty limited:

    1. There is no separate identification of Natufian DNA; consequently, we cannot ascertain the extent to which the Levant N DNA in Neolithic Europe is simply Anatolian DNA, rather than indigenous Levant proper. When you separate out Natufian, you see there is little or no trace of it in most early European samples, with some notable exceptions (ANI152 being a prime example).

    2. There is only the vague identification of ANI152's yDNA as CT, when he has also been found positive for F and two T-equivalent SNPs (Y3804 and Z7767). His specific identification as T(xT1) does not look European, nor present in G2a Neolithic populations, and could explain his Levantine/Natufian components.

    3. There is no identification of his mtDNA (U2), which could explain his Steppe component.

    When academics carry out insufficient analysis of a significant sample like ANI152 to determine the extent of its Levantine ancestry, it is unsurprising that none have proposed an early Levantine migration to Europe.

    (By the way, from what I have seen, there seems to have been relatively little diffusion of Neolithic Levantine DNA into Anatolia; the autosomal drift between these two populations looks to have been mainly in the opposite direction.)

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    I see Varna as a likely key catalyst in the development Eurasian DNA. It seems to have been a bit like a prosperous Wild West boom town that attracted a succession of colourful adventurers from various distant locations (we can see significant signs of Eastern Pontic Steppe, the Levant and Iran in even only the five broadly-contemporaneous samples that have been analysed).

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