Hello everyone!

BMW

Regular Member
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Ethnic group
Irish
Y-DNA haplogroup
T-FT179638/T-Y26649
mtDNA haplogroup
U6a1a
My name is Brian Walsh and I am new to Eupedia.
My Y-DNA haplogroup is T-M70 and I have Walsh 2nd cousins on 23andMe who were determined to be T-CTS3767 so I suspect I am, as well.
My Y-DNA111 from FTDNA shows that I have no matches from Wales and only two matches overall....one with the surname Welsh from Co. Westmeath, Ireland and one with the surname Walsh from Co. Waterford, Ireland. My Walsh family line is from Co. Carlow.
I am awaiting the results from the T-M184 SNP pack to see where that will take me.

Can anybody suggest a possible area of origin or reason for so few matches? Maybe a Non-Paternal Event?
 
BMW...thought you were German...well, haplogroup T is fairly rare in the British Isles, the famous case of Thomas Jefferson nonwithstanding. And especially in Ireland. My maternal line originates in Co. Waterford; but the connection with the name Walsh is important, because Irish Walsh/Welsh families had their ancestors come over (with the Normans) from Wales. T is slightly more common in Wales (like with the ancestors of Thomas Jefferson), but still rather rare. Probably just one Haplo-T settler came over from Wales to Ireland, and it was you and your cousins' ancestor.
 
My name is Brian Walsh and I am new to Eupedia.
My Y-DNA haplogroup is T-M70 and I have Walsh 2nd cousins on 23andMe who were determined to be T-CTS3767 so I suspect I am, as well.
My Y-DNA111 from FTDNA shows that I have no matches from Wales and only two matches overall....one with the surname Welsh from Co. Westmeath, Ireland and one with the surname Walsh from Co. Waterford, Ireland. My Walsh family line is from Co. Carlow.
I am awaiting the results from the T-M184 SNP pack to see where that will take me.

Can anybody suggest a possible area of origin or reason for so few matches? Maybe a Non-Paternal Event?


I doubt the “Non-Paternal Event”.

You get low matches because y T is more rare, but is also widespread.

browse the y T area of the forum:
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/forums/235-T

You could join the T Project at FTDNA.

imo if your cousin got T-CTS3767 at 23andme, you’ll propably get couple of clades closer to T-CTS8862 (T-CTS8489) or below (y T Mid-Bronze-Age European branch).

y T tree
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Phylogenetic_T-M184_tree.png

https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS3767/

Welcome to the Club :)
 
Last edited:
My name is Brian Walsh and I am new to Eupedia.
My Y-DNA haplogroup is T-M70 and I have Walsh 2nd cousins on 23andMe who were determined to be T-CTS3767 so I suspect I am, as well.
My Y-DNA111 from FTDNA shows that I have no matches from Wales and only two matches overall....one with the surname Welsh from Co. Westmeath, Ireland and one with the surname Walsh from Co. Waterford, Ireland. My Walsh family line is from Co. Carlow.
I am awaiting the results from the T-M184 SNP pack to see where that will take me.
Can anybody suggest a possible area of origin or reason for so few matches? Maybe a Non-Paternal Event?

I doubt the “Non-Paternal Event”.
You get low matches because y T is more rare, but is also widespread.
browse the y T area of the forum:
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/forums/235-T
You could join the T Project at FTDNA.
imo if your cousin got T-CTS3767 at 23andme, you’ll propably get couple of clades closer to T-CTS8862 (T-CTS8489) or below (y T Mid-Bronze-Age European branch).
y T tree
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Phylogenetic_T-M184_tree.png
https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS3767/
Welcome to the Club :)

A migration model shows that T-CTS3767 > T-Z19945 went through Italy.

WoQu3C1.jpg


4ymtQLh.jpg


https://phylogeographer.com/mygrations/
 
Thank you Joey 37 and Salento for your responses and apologies for being slow in responding!

Salento, Thanks so much for the Phylogeographer map. I have just recently received my results from my T - M184 SNP Pack test with FTDNA. My new haplogroup is CTS11984 so I am indeed positive for CTS3767.
You had mentioned my possibility of eventually showing T-CTS8862 (T-CTS8489). I do now show positive for CTS8489 but I show a negative for CTS8862. Is that unusual?
I also show negative for Z19945. If that holds true are there any models that show where else CTS3767 migrated off to after Rome?

Brian
 
@BMW
If you are positive for CTS8489, you are also positive for CTS8862 because they are the same thing.
Some genetic platforms have Different Nomenclature for the same haplogroups.

5yixTdK.jpg


and: BY28434 - 6Z19953 - Z19946 - PH3117 - CTS9984 ... same thing, are all T-CTS8489

I don’t know what route CTS3767 took.
 
Thanks for your reply, Salento.

I took a picture of my new haplotree from FTDNA but could not figure out how to post it here.

That would be great if CTS8862 was one of my SNPs. It would be significant progress on the migration of my paternal line. The fact that CTS8862 is shown in red and CTS8489 is shown as CTS8489+ still puzzles me, though.
 
Salento,

Z19926, PH388, Z19896, Y17718, Z19940, ZS5664, Y17492, Z19909, Z19933, Z19942, Z19900, Z19924, Z19902 all show as blue (downstream from my CTS11984).
 
I think they are updating their site, it’s best to check again in a few days.
 
Thanks for your reply, Salento.
I took a picture of my new haplotree from FTDNA but could not figure out how to post it here.
That would be great if CTS8862 was one of my SNPs. It would be significant progress on the migration of my paternal line. The fact that CTS8862 is shown in red and CTS8489 is shown as CTS8489+ still puzzles me, though.
this is the tree from yfull version 7

you will fit before Z19945 if you are negative for that
.
the USA person from NC is surname origin of Radich from Hesse Germany ( he is a Knox in ftdna )
.

you are part of the T1a2 branch ...headed by T-L131
there is chit-chat that T1a2 will become T1a1b in future
 
any OpinioN ? :)
I don’t understand how @BMW could be Positive for T-CTS8489 and Negative for T-CTS8862 if they are equal to each other.

T-CTS11984 equals T-CTS3767 too!
 
Hello everyone,

I also show negative for T-Y17493.
 
Z19945 is shown as "presumed negative".
 
Salento,

haplogroup.org agrees with you.

T-CTS11984
Y-Haplotree
Parent Branch: T-Z19939
Descendant branch(s): T-CTS8862
 
Thanks Brian :)
 
Hello everyone,

CTS8489 is in my list of "tests taken" (as CTS8489+) but does not show in my FTDNA supplied haplotree.

There is no mention of CTS54 in my haplotree and it is not in my list of "tests taken".

Since CTS54 falls between CTS8489 and CTS933, shouldn't I be showing CTS54 in my haplotree.....no matter if CTS54 was or was not in my list of "tests taken"?

I am beginning to wonder if FTDNA may have been mistaken in showing CTS8489+.
Any thoughts?
 
Hello everyone,

CTS8489 is in my list of "tests taken" (as CTS8489+) but does not show in my FTDNA supplied haplotree.

There is no mention of CTS54 in my haplotree and it is not in my list of "tests taken".

Since CTS54 falls between CTS8489 and CTS933, shouldn't I be showing CTS54 in my haplotree.....no matter if CTS54 was or was not in my list of "tests taken"?

I am beginning to wonder if FTDNA may have been mistaken in showing CTS8489+.
Any thoughts?

CTS54 is also known as CTS11984 and CTS3767

If CTS8862 is red on your main Haplotree page, you are also 100% negative for CTS8489.

whatever list you’re reading is confusing you.

at FTDNA Red means you were tested and found negative.

T-CTS11984 (or equal SNPs) is your final haplogroup as of now. :)

imo
 
Hello everyone,
CTS8489 is in my list of "tests taken" (as CTS8489+) but does not show in my FTDNA supplied haplotree.
There is no mention of CTS54 in my haplotree and it is not in my list of "tests taken".
Since CTS54 falls between CTS8489 and CTS933, shouldn't I be showing CTS54 in my haplotree.....no matter if CTS54 was or was not in my list of "tests taken"?
I am beginning to wonder if FTDNA may have been mistaken in showing CTS8489+.
Any thoughts?

do you have CTS3767 as it is the same as CTS54
 

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