Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 52

Thread: Bronze Age Vucedol Culture R1b Z2103 / L23

  1. #1
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    10-06-17
    Posts
    113
    Points
    1,689
    Level
    11
    Points: 1,689, Level: 11
    Level completed: 47%, Points required for next Level: 161
    Overall activity: 29.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b2-L283
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H2a2a1

    Ethnic group
    Kosovar Albanian
    Country: Kosovo



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.

    Bronze Age Vucedol Culture R1b Z2103 / L23

    Found in modern Croatia , dates back to the Bronze Age Proto Ilyrian culture around 2000 BC supposedly. its extremely close to modern Albanians IMO and carries a typical Albanian YDNA , only its more West ... West of me and some Albanians











    Its gedmatch kit JM8436604




    Its puntdnal k13





    Its results are very similar to mine , compare


  2. #2
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    10-06-17
    Posts
    113
    Points
    1,689
    Level
    11
    Points: 1,689, Level: 11
    Level completed: 47%, Points required for next Level: 161
    Overall activity: 29.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b2-L283
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H2a2a1

    Ethnic group
    Kosovar Albanian
    Country: Kosovo



    Credit goes to Tomenable ... I wonder what the DNA LAND of this one would look

  3. #3
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,317
    Points
    280,345
    Level
    100
    Points: 280,345, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    2 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    Closest to Tuscans, North Italians and then Albanians it seems to me, which makes sense to me.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  4. #4
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience PointsThree Friends
    Nik's Avatar
    Join Date
    21-11-10
    Posts
    431
    Points
    5,426
    Level
    21
    Points: 5,426, Level: 21
    Level completed: 76%, Points required for next Level: 124
    Overall activity: 56.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13>CTS9320>Z38456

    Ethnic group
    Albanian
    Country: Switzerland



    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    North Italians have got to be the closest people to the original Indo-Europeans.

    So much for them being "Celtic", "Germanic", "recent arrivals from the North", "closer to French than South Italians", bla bla bla.

    All the Bronze Age and Iron Age Illyrians and Thracians show the same results.

  5. #5
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,317
    Points
    280,345
    Level
    100
    Points: 280,345, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    3 out of 4 members found this post helpful.
    Thracians and Illyrians weren't pure "Indo-Europeans" by any stretch of the imagination. They were mixed people, a product of the steppe people (the minority perhaps) and the "natives" of Late Neolithic Europe, who were themselved mostly EEF, with some WHG.

    I guess you could describe Northern Italians the same way.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Carlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    1,582
    Points
    16,774
    Level
    39
    Points: 16,774, Level: 39
    Level completed: 41%, Points required for next Level: 476
    Overall activity: 98.0%


    Ethnic group
    España
    Country: Spain



    Already in themselves the Indo-Europeans were not pure either if there was a huge diversity of mitochondrial DNA should also be composed of various ethnic groups to put it in some way.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    10-06-17
    Posts
    113
    Points
    1,689
    Level
    11
    Points: 1,689, Level: 11
    Level completed: 47%, Points required for next Level: 161
    Overall activity: 29.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b2-L283
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H2a2a1

    Ethnic group
    Kosovar Albanian
    Country: Kosovo



    Largest segment = 3.2 cM

    Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 113.0 cM (3.170 Pct)

    66 shared segments found for this comparison.

    145170 SNPs used for this comparison.

    53.323 Pct SNPs are full identical

  8. #8
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,317
    Points
    280,345
    Level
    100
    Points: 280,345, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Fwiw, Gash, I'm half Bergamo and half Tuscan on most calculators, and the ancient populations which consistently come up, are Vucedol and Hungarian Bronze Age, as well as various EEF and Anatolian Neolithic populations.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience PointsThree Friends
    Nik's Avatar
    Join Date
    21-11-10
    Posts
    431
    Points
    5,426
    Level
    21
    Points: 5,426, Level: 21
    Level completed: 76%, Points required for next Level: 124
    Overall activity: 56.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13>CTS9320>Z38456

    Ethnic group
    Albanian
    Country: Switzerland



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Thracians and Illyrians weren't pure "Indo-Europeans" by any stretch of the imagination. They were mixed people, a product of the steppe people (the minority perhaps) and the "natives" of Late Neolithic Europe, who were themselved mostly EEF, with some WHG.

    I guess you could describe Northern Italians the same way.
    Being "pure" doesn't make much sense in this case as Carlos said and I didn't claim that Illyrians and Thracians were pure.

    Obviously the very early Illyrians and Thracians were much closer to the "original" IEans and perhaps those original IEans had similar degrees of EEF and WHG admixture.

    But compared to other modern populations, North Italians seem like one of the closest group.

    It gives me the idea of a strip of land starting from the Pontian Steppe - Hallstatt - Alps - Catalonia, with the Pontian Steppes and Hallstatt peoples having been much heavily admixed while the area from North Italy to Catalonia changed much less.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three Friends1 year registered25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Community Award
    Salento's Avatar
    Join Date
    30-05-17
    Posts
    2,695
    Points
    28,638
    Level
    51
    Points: 28,638, Level: 51
    Level completed: 99%, Points required for next Level: 12
    Overall activity: 99.2%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12a

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Thracians and Illyrians weren't pure "Indo-Europeans" by any stretch of the imagination. They were mixed people, a product of the steppe people (the minority perhaps) and the "natives" of Late Neolithic Europe, who were themselved mostly EEF, with some WHG.

    I guess you could describe Northern Italians the same way.
    I also get Bergamo but not as much as you.

    I look Eastwards to find the Puglia-Illyria connection in my results.

    Besides North-East Italy, are you saying that Bergamo has a connection with the Illyrians too?



  11. #11
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    10-06-17
    Posts
    113
    Points
    1,689
    Level
    11
    Points: 1,689, Level: 11
    Level completed: 47%, Points required for next Level: 161
    Overall activity: 29.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b2-L283
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H2a2a1

    Ethnic group
    Kosovar Albanian
    Country: Kosovo



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Closest to Tuscans, North Italians and then Albanians it seems to me, which makes sense to me.
    Yeah but I am closer to Italians than this sample is

    It has Tuscany at a distance of 5 while I have it at around 3 ... Bergamo it has at 6.73 while I got it at 5.99 .. even though I dont plot with Italians , I plot more East of this sample between Bulgarian and North Italy.


    Check my sig, my results are almost identical to this sample, its just a bronze age sample from 3000-2000 BC but no doubt I am looking at some of my ancestors . I also got one of the highest matched segments with this one from what I saw. If they used Albanians like me , I asume it would be closer to us.

    Its just more West , I asume it scores west europe ... bronze age from montenegro was more east due to scoring east europe ... but overall these samples and us clearly have genetic overlap imo. I asume samples like the ones found in Montenegro shifted us more East , basically some ancient East European ancestry.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    10-06-17
    Posts
    113
    Points
    1,689
    Level
    11
    Points: 1,689, Level: 11
    Level completed: 47%, Points required for next Level: 161
    Overall activity: 29.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b2-L283
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H2a2a1

    Ethnic group
    Kosovar Albanian
    Country: Kosovo



    Not to mention that this sample has a typical Albanian YDNA, same as that J2b2 , though this one is closer autosomally to me.

    I would of never though bronze age sample to be this close. I mean bronze age samples from same time frame from Bulgaria were like North euros compared.

  13. #13
    Moderator Achievements:
    1 year registeredTagger Second ClassThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Most Popular

    Join Date
    21-10-16
    Posts
    1,725
    Points
    26,601
    Level
    50
    Points: 26,601, Level: 50
    Level completed: 6%, Points required for next Level: 949
    Overall activity: 5.0%


    Ethnic group
    Multiracial Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    North Italians have got to be the closest people to the original Indo-Europeans.

    So much for them being "Celtic", "Germanic", "recent arrivals from the North", "closer to French than South Italians", bla bla bla.

    All the Bronze Age and Iron Age Illyrians and Thracians show the same results.
    Well, there is no reason to believe that the BA and IA Illyrians and Thracians were very similar to the original Indo-Europeans, at least those that first spoke it and started its expansion, as opposed to those who actually brought it to the "core" of Europe west of the Carpathians.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-08-18
    Posts
    842
    Points
    10,677
    Level
    31
    Points: 10,677, Level: 31
    Level completed: 19%, Points required for next Level: 573
    Overall activity: 76.0%


    Country: Germany



    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gash View Post
    Yeah but I am closer to Italians than this sample is

    It has Tuscany at a distance of 5 while I have it at around 3 ... Bergamo it has at 6.73 while I got it at 5.99 .. even though I dont plot with Italians , I plot more East of this sample between Bulgarian and North Italy.


    Check my sig, my results are almost identical to this sample, its just a bronze age sample from 3000-2000 BC but no doubt I am looking at some of my ancestors . I also got one of the highest matched segments with this one from what I saw. If they used Albanians like me , I asume it would be closer to us.

    Its just more West , I asume it scores west europe ... bronze age from montenegro was more east due to scoring east europe ... but overall these samples and us clearly have genetic overlap imo. I asume samples like the ones found in Montenegro shifted us more East , basically some ancient East European ancestry.
    The Montenegrin samples are closest to Iberians and Czechs respectively. Albanians have a significant shift towards the Near East, so it is impossible they derive significant ancestry from the LBA/IA West Balkans unless the Romans settled the place with Syrians. If you mix BA/IA West Balkans with Czechs you get Austrians/Slovenians not Albanians or Serbs.

    I've tried to explain befotr that this is exactly what you'd expect given the linguistic evidence, but the reaction wasn't positive to say the least
    Last edited by markod; 29-03-19 at 02:36.

  15. #15
    Moderator Achievements:
    1 year registeredTagger Second ClassThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Most Popular

    Join Date
    21-10-16
    Posts
    1,725
    Points
    26,601
    Level
    50
    Points: 26,601, Level: 50
    Level completed: 6%, Points required for next Level: 949
    Overall activity: 5.0%


    Ethnic group
    Multiracial Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    Already in themselves the Indo-Europeans were not pure either if there was a huge diversity of mitochondrial DNA should also be composed of various ethnic groups to put it in some way.
    Virtually no ethnicity is/was "pure", but it still remains a fact that a specific ethnic group that first spoke Proto-Indo-European and had Indo-European culture must've existed and lived somewhere, and only later did it absorb and mix with other ethnicities. We're talking of populations, ethnically (i.e. culturally and linguistically) defined people, and not about race. The fact that every population is mixed does not lead us to state that "it's all the same, nobody is pure anyway". Populations with a certain ethnic identity did exist in some place and time before expanding and changing, we just have to identify them

  16. #16
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Carlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    1,582
    Points
    16,774
    Level
    39
    Points: 16,774, Level: 39
    Level completed: 41%, Points required for next Level: 476
    Overall activity: 98.0%


    Ethnic group
    España
    Country: Spain



    ^^
    To Ygorcs

    "Some time" because this is a non-stop and we are already already faced with another change. The movement is that it produces the changes in a gear that never stops. It may be the time when the European knows more about himself and has longed for or longs for a fixed identity card but seeing what has been seen on the identity card of Europe is that non-stop.

  17. #17
    Moderator Achievements:
    1 year registeredTagger Second ClassThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Most Popular

    Join Date
    21-10-16
    Posts
    1,725
    Points
    26,601
    Level
    50
    Points: 26,601, Level: 50
    Level completed: 6%, Points required for next Level: 949
    Overall activity: 5.0%


    Ethnic group
    Multiracial Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    ^^
    To Ygorcs

    "Some time" because this is a non-stop and we are already already faced with another change. The movement is that it produces the changes in a gear that never stops. It may be the time when the European knows more about himself and has longed for or longs for a fixed identity card but seeing what has been seen on the identity card of Europe is that non-stop.
    Yes, I get what you mean, but if we want to understand history and population genetics and be able to compare populations, cultures and periods one with another we inevitably have to cut some specific moment and place in that continuous evolution and establish a fixed point so that it can be compared with what came before and after. Otherwise things will get completely muddled and fuzzy, and no analysis of the processes and movements of change, and ultimately no conclusion will be achieved. We can and do need to set a date and population that represented the last relatively homogeneous point before the main expansion of PIE-speaking people to distant lands. That does not deny that, of course, there was a continuous evolution of language, genetics and culture, but it helps clarify what processes happened before or after the main expansion and split of PIE-derived languages.

  18. #18
    Moderator Achievements:
    Three FriendsTagger First Class1 year registered50000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Master Tagger
    Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    2,812
    Points
    89,364
    Level
    93
    Points: 89,364, Level: 93
    Level completed: 1%, Points required for next Level: 1,886
    Overall activity: 99.3%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1a2b1 (R-F1794)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    Yes, I get what you mean, but if we want to understand history and population genetics and be able to compare populations, cultures and periods one with another we inevitably have to cut some specific moment and place in that continuous evolution and establish a fixed point so that it can be compared with what came before and after. Otherwise things will get completely muddled and fuzzy, and no analysis of the processes and movements of change, and ultimately no conclusion will be achieved. We can and do need to set a date and population that represented the last relatively homogeneous point before the main expansion of PIE-speaking people to distant lands. That does not deny that, of course, there was a continuous evolution of language, genetics and culture, but it helps clarify what processes happened before or after the main expansion and split of PIE-derived languages.
    Wow! I literally just had this conversation with someone, last night IRL.

  19. #19
    Ned Stark the Boromir Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassThree Friends1000 Experience Points1 year registered
    Fatherland's Avatar
    Join Date
    05-03-17
    Posts
    388
    Points
    634
    Level
    6
    Points: 634, Level: 6
    Level completed: 43%, Points required for next Level: 116
    Overall activity: 16.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b2-L283
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Ethnic group
    Gheg Albanian
    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by markod View Post
    The Montenegrin samples are closest to Iberians and Czechs respectively. Albanians have a significant shift towards the Near East, so it is impossible they derive significant ancestry from the LBA/IA West Balkans unless the Romans settled the place with Syrians. If you mix BA/IA West Balkans with Czechs you get Austrians/Slovenians not Albanians or Serbs.

    I've tried to explain befotr that this is exactly what you'd expect given the linguistic evidence, but the reaction wasn't positive to say the least
    What makes you think samples from Albania proper within the same timeframe wouldnt plot more similarily to modern Albanians?

    Seems like proto-Albanians were more north-western shifted and gradually mixed with Greek women more or less. It's no surprise here, we border the Greeks for several millenias now. Illyrians had contact with Greeks, and also the Dorics were said to be related to the Illyrians.

    Plenty of modern Scando, Slav, French, German samples, and so on, are more Near-Eastern shifted than their Bronze Age IE counterparts.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered10000 Experience PointsThree Friends
    Duarte's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-01-19
    Location
    Belo Horizonte
    Posts
    547
    Points
    13,340
    Level
    34
    Points: 13,340, Level: 34
    Level completed: 99%, Points required for next Level: 10
    Overall activity: 25.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-L151
    MtDNA haplogroup
    B2

    Ethnic group
    Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    Sorry for my ignorance.

    My question lies is in this fact: Why the Puntdnal K13 calculator was chosen for the study of that specific case.
    According It's creator: "The impetus in creating this calculator was the release of the Southeast Asian study, which inspired me to create a calculator that included a Southeast Asian component and give my Southeast and Northeast asian people a more accurate calculator for their ancestry."

    In my specific case, that am mainly an Iberian, the distances in the "1 population approximation"are very large, and only become smaller in the case of 4 populations approximation:

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Spaniard @ 9.395582
    2 Italian_Bergamo @ 10.434740
    3 Italian_Tuscan @ 13.895406
    4 Macedonian @ 15.314872
    5 French @ 15.747106
    6 French_Basque @ 16.059492
    7 Albanian @ 16.189871
    8 Puerto_Rican @ 16.203737
    9 Bulgarian @ 16.428440
    10 Kosovar @ 16.615946
    11 Greek_Thessaly @ 17.111013
    12 Serbian @ 17.448019
    13 Montenegrin @ 17.732849
    14 Romanian @ 18.374989
    15 Belgian @ 19.437056
    16 German_South @ 19.748306
    17 Croatian @ 19.880758
    18 Italian_Abruzzo @ 19.989098
    19 Bosnian @ 20.218548
    20 Greek_Central @ 22.063169

    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% French_Basque +25% German_South +25% Moroccan @ 4.618662

    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 Algerian + French_Basque + French_Basque + Serbian @ 4.517266
    2 Algerian + French_Basque + French_Basque + German_South @ 4.555442
    3 Algerian + French_Basque + French_Basque + Moldavian @ 4.568152
    4 Algerian + Croatian + French_Basque + French_Basque @ 4.597589
    5 French_Basque + French_Basque + German_South + Moroccan @ 4.618662
    6 Algerian + Bosnian + French_Basque + French_Basque @ 4.622537
    7 Puerto_Rican + Spaniard + Spaniard + Spaniard @ 4.655657
    8 Algerian + French_Basque + French_Basque + Hungarian @ 4.683390
    9 French_Basque + French_Basque + Moroccan + Scottish @ 4.708595
    10 French_Basque + French_Basque + German_South + Tunisian @ 4.725478
    11 English + French_Basque + French_Basque + Moroccan @ 4.731346
    12 French_Basque + Italian_Bergamo + Mozabite + Scottish @ 4.742117
    13 Algerian + English + French_Basque + French_Basque @ 4.764601
    14 French_Basque + Italian_Tuscan + Puerto_Rican + Spaniard @ 4.771196
    15 Albanian + French_Basque + Puerto_Rican + Spaniard @ 4.773725
    16 Algerian + French_Basque + French_Basque + Slovene @ 4.776832
    17 Algerian + French_Basque + French_Basque + Scottish @ 4.789011
    18 French_Basque + Italian_Bergamo + Mozabite + Orcadian @ 4.796102
    19 Algerian + French_Basque + German_South + Spaniard @ 4.796734
    20 French_Basque + French_Basque + Moldavian + Mozabite @ 4.799528

    Hugs to all :)

  21. #21
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-08-18
    Posts
    842
    Points
    10,677
    Level
    31
    Points: 10,677, Level: 31
    Level completed: 19%, Points required for next Level: 573
    Overall activity: 76.0%


    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by Fatherland View Post
    What makes you think samples from Albania proper within the same timeframe wouldnt plot more similarily to modern Albanians?
    Seems like proto-Albanians were more north-western shifted and gradually mixed with Greek women more or less. It's no surprise here, we border the Greeks for several millenias now. Illyrians had contact with Greeks, and also the Dorics were said to be related to the Illyrians.
    Plenty of modern Scando, Slav, French, German samples, and so on, are more Near-Eastern shifted than their Bronze Age IE counterparts.
    The difference between Iberians and Albanians/Tuscans is actually not trivial. It would require like 50% replacement with Greeks as source of admixture. I find this very unlikely.

  22. #22
    Ned Stark the Boromir Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassThree Friends1000 Experience Points1 year registered
    Fatherland's Avatar
    Join Date
    05-03-17
    Posts
    388
    Points
    634
    Level
    6
    Points: 634, Level: 6
    Level completed: 43%, Points required for next Level: 116
    Overall activity: 16.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b2-L283
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Ethnic group
    Gheg Albanian
    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by markod View Post
    The difference between Iberians and Albanians/Tuscans is actually not trivial. It would require like 50% replacement with Greeks as source of admixture. I find this very unlikely.
    No, it is likely, doesn't have to be Greeks, but a EEF source.

    The same way it happened to Iberia, almost completely replaced by Yamnaya R1b, yet largely EEF in admixture.

    North Albanians have less Near Eastern admixture than South Albanians. It goes like a gradual line, increasing the more south.

  23. #23
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,317
    Points
    280,345
    Level
    100
    Points: 280,345, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    A lot of my gedmatch results for two population mixes show approximately 50% Iberian/50% Greek.

    It's not at all unusual for central/Northern Italians.

    Just take a look at the map. It makes perfect sense.

  24. #24
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    70
    Posts
    4,381
    Points
    38,396
    Level
    60
    Points: 38,396, Level: 60
    Level completed: 46%, Points required for next Level: 654
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    ^^
    To Ygorcs

    "Some time" because this is a non-stop and we are already already faced with another change. The movement is that it produces the changes in a gear that never stops. It may be the time when the European knows more about himself and has longed for or longs for a fixed identity card but seeing what has been seen on the identity card of Europe is that non-stop.
    I agree for a part, but this process is not level and history knew periods of relative stability compared to other periods and by example between plain Middle Ages and 1900's it seems to me that a lot of regions stayed relatively stable, with a rather sedented basic population (agrculture); otherwise we could not see the current differences between European populations, even if these differences are not huge ones. AS says Ygorcs, we may try to find out these periods of stability and changes and try to link them to political/economical/ethnical/linguistic facts so history.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,120
    Points
    29,699
    Level
    52
    Points: 29,699, Level: 52
    Level completed: 96%, Points required for next Level: 51
    Overall activity: 37.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    Sorry for my ignorance.
    My question lies is in this fact: Why the Puntdnal K13 calculator was chosen for the study of that specific case.
    According It's creator: "The impetus in creating this calculator was the release of the Southeast Asian study, which inspired me to create a calculator that included a Southeast Asian component and give my Southeast and Northeast asian people a more accurate calculator for their ancestry."
    In my specific case, that am mainly an Iberian, the distances in the "1 population approximation"are very large, and only become smaller in the case of 4 populations approximation:
    [FONT="]Using 1 population approximation:[/FONT]
    [FONT="]1 Spaniard @ 9.395582[/FONT]
    [FONT="]2 Italian_Bergamo @ 10.434740[/FONT]
    [FONT="]3 Italian_Tuscan @ 13.895406[/FONT]
    [FONT="]4 Macedonian @ 15.314872[/FONT]
    [FONT="]5 French @ 15.747106[/FONT]
    [FONT="]6 French_Basque @ 16.059492[/FONT]
    [FONT="]7 Albanian @ 16.189871[/FONT]
    [FONT="]8 Puerto_Rican @ 16.203737[/FONT]
    [FONT="]9 Bulgarian @ 16.428440[/FONT]
    [FONT="]10 Kosovar @ 16.615946[/FONT]
    [FONT="]11 Greek_Thessaly @ 17.111013[/FONT]
    [FONT="]12 Serbian @ 17.448019[/FONT]
    [FONT="]13 Montenegrin @ 17.732849[/FONT]
    [FONT="]14 Romanian @ 18.374989[/FONT]
    [FONT="]15 Belgian @ 19.437056[/FONT]
    [FONT="]16 German_South @ 19.748306[/FONT]
    [FONT="]17 Croatian @ 19.880758[/FONT]
    [FONT="]18 Italian_Abruzzo @ 19.989098[/FONT]
    [FONT="]19 Bosnian @ 20.218548[/FONT]
    [FONT="]20 Greek_Central @ 22.063169
    [/FONT]
    [FONT="]Using 3 populations approximation:[/FONT]
    [FONT="]1 50% French_Basque +25% German_South +25% Moroccan @ 4.618662[/FONT][FONT="]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT="]Using 4 populations approximation:
    [/FONT]
    [FONT="]1 Algerian + French_Basque + French_Basque + Serbian @ 4.517266[/FONT]
    [FONT="]2 Algerian + French_Basque + French_Basque + German_South @ 4.555442[/FONT]
    [FONT="]3 Algerian + French_Basque + French_Basque + Moldavian @ 4.568152[/FONT]
    [FONT="]4 Algerian + Croatian + French_Basque + French_Basque @ 4.597589[/FONT]
    [FONT="]5 French_Basque + French_Basque + German_South + Moroccan @ 4.618662[/FONT]
    [FONT="]6 Algerian + Bosnian + French_Basque + French_Basque @ 4.622537[/FONT]
    [FONT="]7 Puerto_Rican + Spaniard + Spaniard + Spaniard @ 4.655657[/FONT]
    [FONT="]8 Algerian + French_Basque + French_Basque + Hungarian @ 4.683390[/FONT]
    [FONT="]9 French_Basque + French_Basque + Moroccan + Scottish @ 4.708595[/FONT]
    [FONT="]10 French_Basque + French_Basque + German_South + Tunisian @ 4.725478[/FONT]
    [FONT="]11 English + French_Basque + French_Basque + Moroccan @ 4.731346[/FONT]
    [FONT="]12 French_Basque + Italian_Bergamo + Mozabite + Scottish @ 4.742117[/FONT]
    [FONT="]13 Algerian + English + French_Basque + French_Basque @ 4.764601[/FONT]
    [FONT="]14 French_Basque + Italian_Tuscan + Puerto_Rican + Spaniard @ 4.771196[/FONT]
    [FONT="]15 Albanian + French_Basque + Puerto_Rican + Spaniard @ 4.773725[/FONT]
    [FONT="]16 Algerian + French_Basque + French_Basque + Slovene @ 4.776832[/FONT]
    [FONT="]17 Algerian + French_Basque + French_Basque + Scottish @ 4.789011[/FONT]
    [FONT="]18 French_Basque + Italian_Bergamo + Mozabite + Orcadian @ 4.796102[/FONT]
    [FONT="]19 Algerian + French_Basque + German_South + Spaniard @ 4.796734[/FONT]
    20 French_Basque + French_Basque + Moldavian + Mozabite @ 4.799528
    Hugs to all :)
    is this admixture correct as it states SW ( south West ) or do they mean SE
    .
    mine below
    puntDNAL K13 Oracle
    Admix Results (sorted):
    # Population Percent
    1 SW_Europe 40.21
    2 NE_Europe 31.47
    3 West_Asia 15.60
    4 SW_Asia 8.21
    5 NE_Asia 1.68
    6 South_Asia 1.20
    7 West_Africa 1.10
    Finished reading population data. 191 populations found.
    13 components mode.
    --------------------------------
    Least-squares method.
    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Italian_Bergamo @ 5.380587
    2 Macedonian @ 5.615315
    3 Italian_Tuscan @ 6.227891
    4 Bulgarian @ 6.515718
    5 Kosovar @ 7.404111
    6 Albanian @ 7.734768
    7 Montenegrin @ 8.686404
    8 Greek_Thessaly @ 8.695016
    9 Romanian @ 9.424124
    10 Serbian @ 9.521023
    11 Spaniard @ 10.405109
    12 French @ 13.239509
    13 Bosnian @ 13.569337
    14 Italian_Abruzzo @ 14.127935
    15 Croatian @ 14.418421
    16 Greek_Central @ 14.897999
    17 German_South @ 16.106207
    18 Moldavian @ 16.144953
    19 Belgian @ 16.758413
    20 Hungarian @ 17.273235
    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Bulgarian +50% Italian_Bergamo @ 2.879009
    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Italian_Bergamo +25% French_Basque +25% Romanian @ 2.411094
    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++
    1 French_Basque + Italian_Bergamo + Turkish_Kayseri + Utahn_European @ 1.902782
    2 French_Basque + Hungarian + Spaniard + Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.002598
    3 French_Basque + Italian_Tuscan + Turkish + Utahn_European @ 2.003595
    4 French_Basque + Moldavian + Spaniard + Turkish @ 2.010896
    5 English + French_Basque + Italian_Bergamo + Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.016394
    6 French_Basque + Moldavian + Spaniard + Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.043981
    7 Croatian + French_Basque + Spaniard + Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.045027
    8 Bosnian + French_Basque + Spaniard + Turkish @ 2.058331
    9 Azerbaijan_Azeri + Belgian + French_Basque + Spaniard @ 2.067628
    10 French_Basque + Slovene + Spaniard + Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.069413
    11 French_Basque + Hungarian + Italian_Bergamo + Turkish @ 2.078355
    12 French_Basque + Italian_Bergamo + Slovene + Turkish @ 2.124298
    13 French + French_Basque + Macedonian + Turkish @ 2.145992
    14 French_Basque + Italian_Bergamo + Orcadian + Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.150871
    15 Bosnian + French_Basque + Spaniard + Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.156808
    16 French_Basque + Irish + Italian_Bergamo + Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.157369
    17 English + French_Basque + Italian_Bergamo + Turkish @ 2.162531
    18 Belgian + French_Basque + Italian_Bergamo + Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.173811
    19 English + French_Basque + Italian_Tuscan + Turkish @ 2.182699
    20 German_South + Spaniard + Spaniard + Turkish @ 2.183275
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •