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Thread: Rarest YDNA haplogroup L-M349 (L1b1) in Europe since Neolithic

  1. #1
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    Country: Serbia



    Rarest YDNA haplogroup L-M349 (L1b1) in Europe since Neolithic

    I had my y-dna (37 markers) tested a while back and I ended up with L-M349 (L-FGC36845). I checked and compared my results with other L-members and noticed that my STRs strongly collide with Central European ones aka the '' Rhine-Danube-Volga '' cluster.
    What makes my results very interesting is that my DYS393 is 13, while literally everybody else has it as 12, or 11.

    My origins are from Kosovo, Serbia. My ancestors migrated from Montenegro to Kosovo during 1800's.
    I've been in contact with serbian genetic site poreklo.rs and they've confirmed that there are many other serbian L-M349 in their database (very distant relatives of mine).
    Belonging to one of the rarest y-haplogroup on this planet is kind of frustrating in a sense that there's literally 0% data available about it. Before doing the y-dna test, I was thinking I'd get what other serbs in Montenegro have; I2a, E-V13, R1a since I come from a notable lineage. I guess my mission's now to gather as much data as possible concerning this haplogroup and gathering lots of money for more testings in the future.

    How did it arrive in Balkan? Or since my DYS393 is 13, maybe it's even indigenous in Balkan. (No particular order) (+ works as a a supporting hypothesis and - works as opposing hypothesis)

    1. 5th-6th century slavic migrations in Balkan.
    + I come from a notable lineage, known since medieval times.
    + Small presence among today's Serbia's population is highly due to L-M349 members being always in wars (Leader of Serbian Uprising in 1800's against Ottoman Empire belonged to this L-M349, add his family, his relatives, and their y-relatives, that's quite a sum.
    - Very, very small presence, like 1% of the whole populations. If it arrived with slavic migrations, you would think that it'd be at least 5-10% today due to founder effect.
    - Almost 0% among other slavic nations. Or maybe those L-M349 slavs have not been tested yet.

    2. Christian Crusades between 1096 and 1291
    + concentrates mostly among central europeans, but still in low frequencies.
    + Hungary's prominent military leader Wenzel von Wasserburg / Vecelin from 900's. Also belonged to this L-M349 and so did all of his y-relatives and their descendants.
    + Most STRs are very, very matching with Central European samples.
    - Balkan DYS393 is 13 while everybody else's in Central Europe is 12

    3. Invitation of Prince Lazar and Kosovo Polje 1389. Serbs and their allies against Ottomans.
    + Sounds logical, lol.

    4. Indigenous
    + DYS393 = 13
    - very difficult to link it to any ancient people
    - very limited


    ---- Only realistic, supportive/opposing, ideas, comments and thoughts please ----

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    Cheers!

    Have you tested another branch of your family/lineage? It would be interesting to see how their results compare to yours.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by MikaelZeković View Post
    I had my y-dna (37 markers) tested a while back and I ended up with L-M349 (L-FGC36845). I checked and compared my results with other L-members and noticed that my STRs strongly collide with Central European ones aka the '' Rhine-Danube-Volga '' cluster.
    What makes my results very interesting is that my DYS393 is 13, while literally everybody else has it as 12, or 11.
    My origins are from Kosovo, Serbia. My ancestors migrated from Montenegro to Kosovo during 1800's.
    I've been in contact with serbian genetic site poreklo.rs and they've confirmed that there are many other serbian L-M349 in their database (very distant relatives of mine).
    Belonging to one of the rarest y-haplogroup on this planet is kind of frustrating in a sense that there's literally 0% data available about it. Before doing the y-dna test, I was thinking I'd get what other serbs in Montenegro have; I2a, E-V13, R1a since I come from a notable lineage. I guess my mission's now to gather as much data as possible concerning this haplogroup and gathering lots of money for more testings in the future.
    How did it arrive in Balkan? Or since my DYS393 is 13, maybe it's even indigenous in Balkan. (No particular order) (+ works as a a supporting hypothesis and - works as opposing hypothesis)
    1. 5th-6th century slavic migrations in Balkan.
    + I come from a notable lineage, known since medieval times.
    + Small presence among today's Serbia's population is highly due to L-M349 members being always in wars (Leader of Serbian Uprising in 1800's against Ottoman Empire belonged to this L-M349, add his family, his relatives, and their y-relatives, that's quite a sum.
    - Very, very small presence, like 1% of the whole populations. If it arrived with slavic migrations, you would think that it'd be at least 5-10% today due to founder effect.
    - Almost 0% among other slavic nations. Or maybe those L-M349 slavs have not been tested yet.
    2. Christian Crusades between 1096 and 1291
    + concentrates mostly among central europeans, but still in low frequencies.
    + Hungary's prominent military leader Wenzel von Wasserburg / Vecelin from 900's. Also belonged to this L-M349 and so did all of his y-relatives and their descendants.
    + Most STRs are very, very matching with Central European samples.
    - Balkan DYS393 is 13 while everybody else's in Central Europe is 12
    3. Invitation of Prince Lazar and Kosovo Polje 1389. Serbs and their allies against Ottomans.
    + Sounds logical, lol.
    4. Indigenous
    + DYS393 = 13
    - very difficult to link it to any ancient people
    - very limited
    ---- Only realistic, supportive/opposing, ideas, comments and thoughts please ----
    have you ever contacted Gareth henson ..........he runs the L haplogroup project
    or
    read
    L-M349 (L1b1a) Kenézy Ancestral Journey
    Uploaded by Gábor Balogh
    L-M349 (L1b1a) Kenézy Ancestral JourneyFull description

    nearly 3% of this marker is found in the italian and austrian alps
    .
    .
    or
    .
    origins of L which came out of Haplogroup LT
    https://genlinginterface.com/wp-cont...and-T-M184.pdf
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    G2a-CTS342
    MtDNA haplogroup
    V1a1b

    Country: Serbia



    My in-law just got confirmed as L-M349 and with DYS393 = 13 but he is not Zekovic, which, I am sure, makes it even more interesting. He considers himself as Montenegro Serb from Kosovo. I don't know if he wants to participate in poreklo.rs project or not.

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    Ethnic group
    Slavic, Celtic, Germanic, Hunnic
    Country: Serbia



    Zdravo! I have sent you a message in private.

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    I have not tested yet as I am gathering a proper budget for more testings. Many L-M349 inviduals have popped out ever since of this post. This haplogroup has not been studied enough yet.

  7. #7
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    Yes I have. The project just needs more fundings. It is very interesting that L-M349 in Europe bases itself in Central Europe.

  8. #8
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-Z2103>BY611

    Country: Kosovo



    Serbian ethnologist Atanasije Urosevic he wrote yes that your ancestors came from Albania, from Shkodra, and that you were from the Kastrati clan, located not far from Shkodra. Here is what he wrote in 1934 when he was exploring your village of Caralevë: Zeka-Zeković (8 houses) and Braimovići (10 houses) both families are from the tribe Kastrati. They were settled as they say from Shkodra itself in the early 19th century. The ancestors of the informant are: Qerkin, Zeka, Memet.

    Urosevic did not record that tradition of your family that you were originally from Montenegro. You may be originally from Montenegro, since your haplogroup does not appear anywhere in northern Albania, especially with the tribe Kastrati. It is a similar case with my family. We are from Vushtrri, originally from Drenica, we are Serbs by nationality. Urosevic wrote that we are originally from Montenegro. While other Serbian ethnologists wrote that we were originally catholic Albanians and that we have Albanian relatives in Shala e Bajgores.

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    Hi, Beki. Yes, I'm aware of Urosevic's recordings and my ancestors in fact founded the village of Crnoljevo. We have an oral tradition that they came to Kosovo from northern Montenegro via Shkodra routes. It is also known that after settling in Kosovo, half of our clan got albanized (Braimovici) and most of them became albanians overtime even though my grandfather and his family were orthodox serbs and fought against albanians during WW1. Urosevic documented these in 1934, but my grandfather and their family moved out of Crnoljevo already in 1920's; I believe that these informants were our albanized relatives. Our lastname is today Kastratovic and I've been studying the Kastratovic of Montenegro, many of the families there share slava Petkovdan just as other L-M349 tested serbians in Montenegro. Our slava is Djurdjevdan though.
    By far what poreklo.rs has put together based on y-dna tests; all L-M349 inviduals in Western Balkan share a common ancestor from 800's. We are alone in whole planet since closest relatives are thousands of years away (Central European L-M349). Based on y-STR values, the Serbian L-M349 shares a strong connection with samples from Austria, Hungary and Switzerland.

    Thank you for writing here Beki, this made me write more important information here for everybody to see. I will contact you in private.

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    Zdravo again Beki,

    I tried to contact you but Eupedia says that your inbox is full so I can't send any PMs to you. We can continue by emails; mine is mikaelzekovic (at) outlook (dot) kom, kom with the C since this doesn't let me post this otherwise. Or add me on Facebook. Hvala, brate.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J1-P58
    MtDNA haplogroup
    T1a1l

    Ethnic group
    Gheg Albanian-Kelmendi clan(Joined) but with supposed origin from Montenegro
    Country: United Kingdom



    Quote Originally Posted by MikaelZeković View Post
    Hi, Beki. Yes, I'm aware of Urosevic's recordings and my ancestors in fact founded the village of Crnoljevo. We have an oral tradition that they came to Kosovo from northern Montenegro via Shkodra routes. It is also known that after settling in Kosovo, half of our clan got albanized (Braimovici) and most of them became albanians overtime even though my grandfather and his family were orthodox serbs and fought against albanians during WW1. Urosevic documented these in 1934, but my grandfather and their family moved out of Crnoljevo already in 1920's; I believe that these informants were our albanized relatives. Our lastname is today Kastratovic and I've been studying the Kastratovic of Montenegro, many of the families there share slava Petkovdan just as other L-M349 tested serbians in Montenegro. Our slava is Djurdjevdan though.
    By far what poreklo.rs has put together based on y-dna tests; all L-M349 inviduals in Western Balkan share a common ancestor from 800's. We are alone in whole planet since closest relatives are thousands of years away (Central European L-M349). Based on y-STR values, the Serbian L-M349 shares a strong connection with samples from Austria, Hungary and Switzerland.

    Thank you for writing here Beki, this made me write more important information here for everybody to see. I will contact you in private.
    Does your family believe to have come from the Kastrati tribe of Malesia or do they only mention an origin from Montenegro?
    Ydna: J-ZS241

    mtDNA: T1a1l

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS5856*

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