Nutrition Dairy consumption and height

We spent a couple days studying Geert Hofstede in law school. Interesting stuff. The Germans next door are one of the more “masculine” societies out there
Really? Good for you! I do have to admit that Inglehart's findings are more solid - Hofstede played it fast and loose with the data in order to fit a preconceived theory, which is why (for instance) power distance and individualism correlate negatively with one another even when controlling for wealth. But whatever one may say about Hofstede's methods, he clearly had a good intuitive understanding of different cultures, and many of Hofstede's anecdotes and observations are fascinating in their own right.
 
It has to be the genetics as well, or some of my uncles wouldn't be so much taller than the others. It's as if there are two strains of people up there: one mid-height, gracile boned, and one very tall, very big boned. Sometimes they show up in the same family. We even have women like that, my nonna included. She towered over her husband. My father used to say that a slap from her would send him flying when he was a boy. She took no prisoners, as they say in the U.S. :) I never saw that side of her. The grandchildren saw a different nonna: she was my protector, my ally, my confidant. Of course, by the time I knew her she wasn't being harrassed by being the mother of eleven children and trying to run their properties as well.

They did have a diet very, very high in cream and cheese consumption, however. As my mother used to say, there were more cows than people up there. There was dairy in the form of cheese at almost every meal, and my father remembers drinking milk also when he would go up to see relatives, sometimes right from the cow, which my mother found disgusting. :) You're right about polenta at most meals, probably at least two a day. My father said breakfast was polenta up there, with cream or melted cheese and some greens or an egg if there were enough that day. They did grow some grain up there, and so made pasta, with chestnut flour if need be if the wheat flour ran out, and rice did come up from the plain as well, even when it was by mule train. I think some of the girls went down to work in the rice fields as well.

You've inspired me: I'm going to add some of my pictures of meals I've eaten up there to my thread on the cuisine of the parmense. This always happens to me in the spring: I start to get more homesick, even if the Parmense isn't really "home" in the deepest sense. Even my father, born in Sarzana when his parents returned from America, and raised right over the border in the Lunigiana, thought of himself more as a Spezzino than as an Emilian, even if his parents spoke Pramzan to each other and to them.:)
I'm a bit upset. I typed a long text through smartphone and lost the draft accidentally. In summary:

I forgot to mention that my grandparents used to give wine with water and sugar to their little children. Sounds weird today. :)
I also forgot to mention a very, very important item of the diet of virtually all Italian immigrants who settled some "plateaus" of South Brazil, as Serra Gaúcha (which in fact is not a "sierra" technically). If my memory serves, I read somewhere that some of them - probably few -, at the beginning, didn't starve to death at winter thanks to it. It's called "pinhão", a seed of the conifer Araucaria angustifolia. Native forests with this species exist mainly in South Brazil, but there are spots also in NE Argentina and high altitude areas in SE Brazil. The gender Araucaria exists just in South hemisphere AFAIK, but not all species of Araucaria have eatable seeds. Here you have an Araucaria angustifolia, its pine cone and seeds:
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D125A5509-Pinhas-e-pinh%C3%B5es-Sementes-coment%C3%ADveis-da-Araucaria-angustifolia-1200x800.jpg


Time ago I sent seeds to a man in Rome. They grew up, but some of them suffered vandalism. Just one survived, and it was transplanted to a safer place. The process had a negative effect on it, unfortunately. But at least it's there.

As for diet etc., I was the biggest at birth, with 3 cm more than my tallest brother, and also the most "carnivorous" of all, while he used to consume much more milk. :) Still, he's 10 cm taller than me, and another one has 5 cm more, while I'm taller than the eldest. Anyway, it exemplifies that height at birth is not exactly a good reference of height at adulthood, as some people may think. The generation of last decade seems even bigger. Some of my nephews and nieces, for instance, are pretty tall (not as much as that bro of mine; still...). My little one, also a "meat eater", is on percentile 95 so far, and his mom has just 168 cm. :)
Not sure what kind of food is producing this effect, since my generation was pretty well feeded too.

I knew some "Italian" women as your nonna, physically. :) My mother-in-law, for example, must be like her more or less. Just 170 cm, but "robust". However, I'm still hoping to know the other side of her, if you know what I mean. je je je Just kidding.

Coinxidently, I tried milk right from the cow this year for the first time in my life. Not bad, but... If you haven't tried it, you didn't lost anything imo.
Well, they say raw milk is healthier, 'cause the enzymes are preserved and the proteins are not denatured. I don't know. Even so, it would pose some risks.

Good to known you were inspired to post pictures of meals, except that they are "torturing", in the good sense. :)
I checked them. Unfortunately, there is not this kind of food where I live. At leadt not that I know.
 
I don't know if they grow near the Veneto, but in Toscana and Liguria we eat a lot of pine nuts. They cost a fortune nowadays. :) If they didn't have them in Italy perhaps at least they heard of them?

They're an essential ingredient of pesto, and we make cookies with them, my absolute favorites. :)

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Pesto-ingredients.jpg


You have to find an Emilian restaurant, or better yet go there. If you like nature, there's nowhere better than the Parco dei Cento Laghi, for example.

I got wine at mealtimes when I was little, although usually "baptized" wine with some water. There's even a picture of me tipping a straw wine bottle to my mouth. That kind of wine is about 4 % alcohol, so mixed with water it's harmless. It certainly did me no harm. :) Fwiw, I don't ever drink more than two glasses of wine at a time, and I abhor drunkenness. I think you either have a predisposition toward alcoholism, in which case you shouldn't drink, or you don't.

I had coffee too although I didn't drink it. It went into my zabaglione every morning. Did I mention I was horribly spoiled? :) Yes, by my nonna as well. She would see to it I got mostly everything I wanted. No switch from the willow tree for me, which she used to keep her seven rambunctious boys in line. To be fair I would never have dreamed of doing the kinds of things her boys had done. Even more so than most little girls in my world, I was very proper and well behaved. :)
 
Pine nuts and pasta is delicious. I think I had a pasta dish with pine nuts at a northern Italian restaurant years ago in the Minneapolis suburbs.
 
Pine nuts and pasta is delicious. I think I had a pasta dish with pine nuts at a northern Italian restaurant years ago in the Minneapolis suburbs.

I like them with pasta too, but also on cookies. They have such a delicate, sweet taste, and a lovely smell.
 
I don't know if they grow near the Veneto, but in Toscana and Liguria we eat a lot of pine nuts. They cost a fortune nowadays. :) If they didn't have them in Italy perhaps at least they heard of them?
They're an essential ingredient of pesto, and we make cookies with them, my absolute favorites. :)
Mediterranean-Pine-Nuts-Pignolias.jpg

478x640_ac.jpg

Pesto-ingredients.jpg

You have to find an Emilian restaurant, or better yet go there. If you like nature, there's nowhere better than the Parco dei Cento Laghi, for example.
I got wine at mealtimes when I was little, although usually "baptized" wine with some water. There's even a picture of me tipping a straw wine bottle to my mouth. That kind of wine is about 4 % alcohol, so mixed with water it's harmless. It certainly did me no harm. :) Fwiw, I don't ever drink more than two glasses of wine at a time, and I abhor drunkenness. I think you either have a predisposition toward alcoholism, in which case you shouldn't drink, or you don't.
I had coffee too although I didn't drink it. It went into my zabaglione every morning. Did I mention I was horribly spoiled? :) Yes, by my nonna as well. She would see to it I got mostly everything I wanted. No switch from the willow tree for me, which she used to keep her seven rambunctious boys in line. To be fair I would never have dreamed of doing the kinds of things her boys had done. Even more so than most little girls in my world, I was very proper and well behaved. :)
I confess I've never heard about them. My parents don't know either. I just learned with you that they exist. :) Interesting that they do are somewhat similar to our "pinhão", however, smaller. I wonder if the taste is also similar.
Check its size:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku5h4iAXCCM

Pinhão is not too expensive. I guess it costs more or less $3 / kg.
I just learned too that pine nuts are used in the original pesto. I always thought the "soul" of pesto was basically walnuts, basil, olive oil and parmesan.
Thanks for the tip of restaurant. You bet I'm going there someday. Btw, I guess one of the best restaurants in the world is in Emilia-Romagna, no? In Modena, more specifically.

Well, my parents did drink wine, and I'm sure it didn't affect them. But nowadays they drink too few for two "Oriundi". je je je I myself didn't drink it when I was a child, but I became a fan in adulthood. I taste it twice a week, more or less. Half a bottle at a time.
There are still relatives at countryside who produce wine with their own grapes, but it's not done exactly for "enthusiasts". It's a more simple kind of wine, done basically with Vitis labrusca and hybrid labrusca and vinifera. It's fruity, aromatic, without much complexity, and it must be drunk young. Most of Brazilian wines are done with this kind of grape, but of course we have lots Vitis vinifera wines as well, mainly in Rio Grande do Sul. I like Vitis labrusca's, especially 'cause they evoke memories of childhood, but of course I prefer those elaborated with Vitis vinifera.

You're still proper and well behaved. :)
I wish I've been spoiled by my grandparents, 'cause it would mean knowing them. I did know one, at least. Unfortunately, three passed away well before my birth.
Love coffee btw. Here the traditional is boiled, but I also drink espresso - generally Nespresso.
 
I confess I've never heard about them. My parents don't know either. I just learned with you that they exist. :) Interesting that they do are somewhat similar to our "pinhão", however, smaller. I wonder if the taste is also similar.
Check its size:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku5h4iAXCCM

Pinhão is not too expensive. I guess it costs more or less $3 / kg.
I just learned too that pine nuts are used in the original pesto. I always thought the "soul" of pesto was basically walnuts, basil, olive oil and parmesan.
Thanks for the tip of restaurant. You bet I'm going there someday. Btw, I guess one of the best restaurants in the world is in Emilia-Romagna, no? In Modena, more specifically.

Well, my parents did drink wine, and I'm sure it didn't affect them. But nowadays they drink too few for two "Oriundi". je je je I myself didn't drink it when I was a child, but I became a fan in adulthood. I taste it twice a week, more or less. Half a bottle at a time.
There are still relatives at countryside who produce wine with their own grapes, but it's not done exactly for "enthusiasts". It's a more simple kind of wine, done basically with Vitis labrusca and hybrid labrusca and vinifera. It's fruity, aromatic, without much complexity, and it must be drunk young. Most of Brazilian wines are done with this kind of grape, but of course we have lots Vitis vinifera wines as well, mainly in Rio Grande do Sul. I like Vitis labrusca's, especially 'cause they evoke memories of childhood, but of course I prefer those elaborated with Vitis vinifera.

You're still proper and well behaved. :)
I wish I've been spoiled by my grandparents, 'cause it would mean knowing them. I did know one, at least. Unfortunately, three passed away well before my birth.
Love coffee btw. Here the traditional is boiled, but I also drink espresso - generally Nespresso.

Yes, Osteria Francescana is indeed one of the best if not the best restaurant in the world, but while I would love to eat there once, I have to confess that I prefer our original food. :) He has said that the locals wanted to crucify him for destroying the cooking of their nonnas. I'm sure some still do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co1wzJ0Eg84

This is a very nice exploration of the food and art of Emilia Romagna: Bologna, aptly called "La Grassa", but also Ferrara, Modena, and Parma.

The best food in Italy, imo, closely followed by the food of Napoli.
 
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Yes, Osteria Francescana is indeed one of the best if not the best restaurant in the world, but while I would love to eat there once, I have to confess that I prefer our original food. :) He has said that the locals wanted to crucify him for destroying the cooking of their nonnas. I'm sure some still do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co1wzJ0Eg84
This is a very nice exploration of the food and art of Emilia Romagna: Bologna, aptly called "La Grassa", but also Ferrara, Modena, and Parma.
The best food in Italy, imo, closely followed by the food of Napoli.
I'm convinced the cousine Emiliana explains Pavarotti. ;)

Thanks for the video. I'll watch it tonight more carefully. Now my little dude here wants atention. At least he let me type this one. :)

Generally I prefer traditional food to the "generic" or "adapted" one, too, but I confess I've never tried a real sophisticated food, of these fancy restaurants. So don't know if I'd like it more.

One of the most traditinal items of the culinary of my birth area is the "galeto al primo canto".
 
I'm convinced the cousine Emiliana explains Pavarotti. ;)

Thanks for the video. I'll watch it tonight more carefully. Now my little dude here wants atention. At least he let me type this one. :)

Generally I prefer traditional food to the "generic" or "adapted" one, too, but I confess I've never tried a real sophisticated food, of these fancy restaurants. So don't know if I'd like it more.

One of the most traditinal items of the culinary of my birth area is the "galeto al primo canto".

The musical tradition also inspired his soul. :) Verdi is a religion there, as Puccini is in neighboring Toscana. They love opera too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkzGOF3COYo
 
Just out, avg. height for late highschool boys in one city 187.6cm. Crazy, this must be the result of recent selection. Nutrition isn't enough imo.

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I'll never go there.
 
It’s always been known that the Dutch and Frisian towns here in the Midwest have always been stellar at basketball, volleyball or football. Lots of big, tall, athletic kids
 
"Skeptical Face" There's nothing more sacred than Cheese and Wine in my neck of the woods but we still aint as tall as the Dutch..


Although that could be because of Soviet and Russian empire famines.
 
Really incredible.I think this is because dairy has growth hormones. It makes you taller but it's also cancer promoting or something.
That may well be part of the story, but growth hormones are a modern development. Dutch heights were increasing long before the 1970's.
-Vandemonian, earlier in this thread
 
the dutch may have been small in the 1800s but i dont believe that was always the case. infact all this banter of comparing modern populations to people from a few hundred years ago draws a narrow conclusion.

basically the potential for growth was always there its just our modern high fat/carb diet can give growing teens the fuel they need.

how else could these 7ft kurgans exist in the past if everyone was 5'0 ?

caesar mentioned the brits were a head taller than the romans. they were 6 footers.

its also has a racial/ ethnic component. some groups no matter how much milk they drink will never be the size of the dutch.

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