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Thread: Malisor and N Albanian clans and their origin

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    You mean the Langobard cemetery which shows affinity to Tuscany? Don't really remember much of the details from the study.

    You need a larger sample to prove the lack its existence, especially considering that I2a-Din has mostly a highland distribution while Hungary/Pannonia is a lowland.

    Anyway, I don't think there's still enough evidence to call it proto-Slavic.
    I2a-Y3120 is certainly of Slavic origin. Y3120 has a TMRCA of around 2,200 years ago, so during the 2nd century BC , which is around the time that Proto-Slavic is believed to have been spoken somewhere in eastern Europe. 1,000BC - 1AD is the time frame in which some scholars believe Middle Proto-Slavic was spoken. Diversity and basal clades back up the claim that Y3120 arrived with Slavs from eastern Europe. Y3120 reaches highest diversity in the area around Poland, Ukraine, and Belarus which is precisely where some people believe Proto-Slavic originated from. Basal clades also show up more in eastern Europe than they do anywhere else. Y3120 downstreams also have relatively low TMRCAs suggesting an expansion during the Medieval.

    The ancestral clades of Y3120 though may have come from NW Europe given the fact that one was carried by a SHG sample from Motala, Sweden. As well as them being found today in west European countries. Though it is clear that one of these lines migrated east.
    Ydna: J-ZS241

    mtDNA: T1a1l

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS5856*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    You mean the Langobard cemetery which shows affinity to Tuscany? Don't really remember much of the details from the study.

    You need a larger sample to prove the lack its existence, especially considering that I2a-Din has mostly a highland distribution while Hungary/Pannonia is a lowland.

    Anyway, I don't think there's still enough evidence to call it proto-Slavic.
    Current frequency doesn't mean much, but really I2a-Din is more diverse in Poland, Ukraine and Belarus.

    It's always better to have more data, but the data we currently have is pretty clear. This view keeps coming back again and again so I'm making a summary of what we already have in the proper thread.

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    I opened this thread for these that claim that N Albanian and Malesia 15-16 century clans originate in Bosnia and more specifically Hercegovina.

    To prove their senseless thesis, to try and demonstrate here how would masses of tribal people originate somewhere where some haplogroup goes up to 70 % and they dont belong to it.
    Also somewhere where other language then theirs was spoken it that time.

    I mean, for this you dont even need genetics lol but logic. Whoever says this is not very sharp.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    They are just oral traditions though Dema, and yes, genetic evidence doesn’t support them. I agree with you there. We have already spoken about it on multiple occasions.


    These are the clans that sport such traditions that come to mind for those who still are undecided: Shkreli (pred Y23094 with some Z2705 and PH2180); Hoti (pred CTS11100 with some Z2705 among the old Hoti); Krasniqi (pred PH1751 with some PH2180 and Z2705 among the Anas); Nikaj (pred PH1751 with some Z2705 among the Anas); Gruda (mix of Y23094, Z2705 and some V13); Trieshi - Bankeq (pred Z16661); Piperi (pred Z2705 with some PH2180) and Vasojevici (pred BY14151).


    It’s possible, however, that some of these clans came from further north, especially from regions like old Herzegovina and Dalmatia during early Middle Ages. I wouldn’t totally rule that out. Slavs and Avars that appeared in the region after Rome fell could have pushed them down south. So perhaps they might be remembering those movements/events in more distant past but got lost in translation over the centuries..



    BTW it’s Malesor, not ‘Malisori’ xD
    Last edited by Leka; 03-04-19 at 23:34.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leka View Post
    They are just oral traditions though Dema, and yes, genetic evidence doesn’t support them. I agree with you there. We have already spoken about it in multiple occasions.


    These are the clans that sport such traditions that come to mind for those who still are undecided: Shkreli (pred Y23094 with some Z2705 and PH2180); Hoti (pred CTS11100 with some Z2705 among the old Hoti); Krasniqi (pred PH1751 with some PH2180 and Z2705 among the Anas); Nikaj (pred PH1751 with some Z2705 among the Anas); Gruda (mix of Y23094, Z2705 and some V13); Trieshi - Bankeq (pred Z16661); Piperi (pred Z2705 with some PH2180) and Vasojevici (Pred BY14151).


    It’s possible, however, that some of these clans came from further north, especially from regions like old Herzegovina and Dalmatia during early Middle Ages. I wouldn’t totally rule that out. Slavs and Avars that appeared in the region after Rome fell could have pushed them down south. So perhaps they might be remembering those movements/events in more distant past but got lost in translation over the centuries..



    BTW it’s Malesor, not ‘Malisori’ xD
    Which families in Gruda claim origin from Herzegovina? From what I have read most of Gruda believe to have come from Vuksan Gjela who supposedly came from Suma in Shkodra. The rest believe to have origin from clans such as Berisha. Maybe there is a story that places Vuksan Gjela in Herzegovina? If that's the case then it doesn't seem to be common.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leka View Post
    They are just oral traditions though Dema, and yes, genetic evidence doesn’t support them. I agree with you there. We have already spoken about it in multiple occasions.


    These are the clans that sport such traditions that come to mind for those who still are undecided: Shkreli (pred Y23094 with some Z2705 and PH2180); Hoti (pred CTS11100 with some Z2705 among the old Hoti); Krasniqi (pred PH1751 with some PH2180 and Z2705 among the Anas); Nikaj (pred PH1751 with some Z2705 among the Anas); Gruda (mix of Y23094, Z2705 and some V13); Trieshi - Bankeq (pred Z16661); Piperi (pred Z2705 with some PH2180) and Vasojevici (Pred BY14151).


    It’s possible, however, that some of these clans came from further north, especially from regions like old Herzegovina and Dalmatia during early Middle Ages. I wouldn’t totally rule that out. Slavs and Avars that appeared in the region after Rome fell could have pushed them down south. So perhaps they might be remembering those movements/events in more distant past but got lost in translation over the centuries..



    BTW it’s Malesor, not ‘Malisori’ xD
    Yes these are mostly the clans, thanks for naming them along with dominating Y-DNA subclade.
    But still i was attacked by few people, incl Albanians about this issue claiming their Bosnian/Hercegovinian origin so i wanted to give them a chance to explain.

    Regarding Malisori i was already told in this thread that its how Montengrins and foreigners say it, while on Albanian its Malësor.

    I absolutely agree with it, even tho both words are very similar and they both for sure have origin in Albanian language.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dema View Post
    Yes these are mostly the clans, thanks for naming them along with dominating Y-DNA subclade.
    But still i was attacked by few people, incl Albanians about this issue claiming their Bosnian/Hercegovinian origin so i wanted to give them a chance to explain.

    Regarding Malisori i was already told in this thread that its how Montengrins and foreigners say it, while on Albanian its Malësor.

    I absolutely agree with it, even tho both words are very similar and they both for sure have origin in Albanian language.
    Awwww you were attacked? Are you ok now? You need some emotional support?

    You speak of logic a lot but what amazes me is how can haplogroups prove that they didn't come from a certain region? Weren't most of people in those regions L283 + E-V13 + R1b-Z2103 before the barbarian migrations? If they came indeed from there you expected them to be I2a-Din?

    Again, look at the distance between the current Albanian villages of Montenegro and Herzegovina. Albanians migrated mostly Southwards during the Middle Ages and reached as far as Peloponnesus and even became the majority in many Aegean Islands.

    But they couldn't have travelled 3-5 days on horseback from Herzegovina to Montenegro?

    Do you understand that with your theories you're giving up on the Lahuta Malcis? All the events happened in those areas and we are not the kind of people that need to steal other's heroism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    Awwww you were attacked? Are you ok now? You need some emotional support?

    You speak of logic a lot but what amazes me is how can haplogroups prove that they didn't come from a certain region? Weren't most of people in those regions L283 + E-V13 + R1b-Z2103 before the barbarian migrations? If they came indeed from there you expected them to be I2a-Din?

    Again, look at the distance between the current Albanian villages of Montenegro and Herzegovina. Albanians migrated mostly Southwards during the Middle Ages and reached as far as Peloponnesus and even became the majority in many Aegean Islands.

    But they couldn't have travelled 3-5 days on horseback from Herzegovina to Montenegro?

    Do you understand that with your theories you're giving up on the Lahuta Malcis? All the events happened in those areas and we are not the kind of people that need to steal other's heroism.
    Are you handicapped?

    You dont understand and perhaps you do need some of that Suisse fondue to restore your brain cells?
    You dont understand that these Bosnian Illyrians that lived there 1500 years prior to formation of Albanian clans have nothing to do with almost exclusively Slavic Medieval Bosnia neither with Albanian clans that formed 1500 years later.

    Your brain is most certainly left without Suisse fondue which would trigger it into more advance thinking.

    So you think masses of E-v13 and J2b2 Illyrians arrived in horses in 15 century from a place where Slavic language was spoken and formed Albanian clans that were actually at that time under Ottoman Empire borders?

    Do you really think that? And you have 300 posts on Eupedia? God help us.

    What about lahuta? Did you try to stick it up in your ass? Maybe you discover new means of using it, i am not interested in fairy tales.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Lahuta e Malcis is an epic literary work by Gjergj Fishta, about true events during the early XX century. You probably meant to refer to Eposi i Kreshnikeve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    Which families in Gruda claim origin from Herzegovina? From what I have read most of Gruda believe to have come from Vuksan Gjela who supposedly came from Suma in Shkodra. The rest believe to have origin from clans such as Berisha. Maybe there is a story that places Vuksan Gjela in Herzegovina? If that's the case then it doesn't seem to be common.
    Gruda as heterogeneous tribe that they are have few traditions regarding their origins. One of those traditions speaks about them coming from Herzegovina, before Shkreli and Hoti. Don’t recall exactly where I have read it, because it has been a while since I looked into Gruda, but if I am not mistaken Marash Uçi spoke of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dema View Post
    Are you handicapped?

    You dont understand and perhaps you do need some of that Suisse fondue to restore your brain cells?
    You dont understand that these Bosnian Illyrians that lived there 1500 years prior to formation on Albanian clans have nothing to do with almost exclusively Slavic Medieval Bosnia neither with Albanian clans that formed 1500 years later.

    Your brain is most certainly left without Suisse fondue which would trigger it into more advance thinking.

    So you think masses of E-v13 and J2b2 Illyrians arrived in horses in 15 century from a place where Slavic language was spoken and formed Albanian clans that were actually at that time under Ottoman Empire borders.

    Do you really think that? And you have 300 posts on Eupedia? God help us.

    What about lahuta? Did you try to stick it up in your ass? Maybe you discover new means of using it, i am not interested in fairy tales.


    What in hell are you talking about again? I'm not typing in Phoenician (although you should be able to understand that). Don't you think that those Bosnian Illyrians were also J2b, R1b, and E-V13?

    Educate yourself about the fact that Albanian was recorded in those mountains of Dalmatia (farther than Herzegovina) very early (13th century if I'm not mistaken) and that about 1/4 of of lastnames among Lika migrants were Albanian or Albanian-like while the majority were Vlachs/Slavicized Vlachs. One of the reasons they were fleeing was also the migrating Serbs from further East escaping the Ottomans. Those Serbs/Vlachs settled in Montenegro, Herzegovina, Bosnia, and Croatia, and even in the territories of Austria and Hungary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dema View Post
    We got our first Saudi Arabian sample who is CTS1969 positive!
    Looks like he upped the entire J2-M205 TMRCA to 6000 years together with CTS1969 TMRCA, also looks like he is basal CTS1969?

    As it can be seen on Yfull he is from Mekkah, Saudi Arabia. Mashallah! https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-M205/
    This is why I don't take you seriously as you're not one of us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ownstyler View Post
    Lahuta e Malcis is an epic literary work by Gjergj Fishta, about true events during the early XX century. You probably meant to refer to Eposi i Kreshnikeve.

    Yeah sorry, I meant Eposi as I mentioned in an earlier post. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leka View Post
    Gruda as heterogeneous tribe that they are have few traditions regarding their origins. One of those traditions speaks about them coming from Herzegovina, before Shkreli and Hoti. Don’t recall exactly where I have read it, because it has been a while since I looked into Gruda, but if I am not mistaken Marash Uçi spoke of it.
    Yh that is true, it is made up of various families and clans that are unrelated for the most part. However I did read that a large percentage of them believed they were descended from Vuksan Gjela. I looked it up and it seems that some of the families in Grude believe to have come from Herzegovina in the early 16th century, according to Elsie. Interesting stuff, wonder how they had come to develop these origin stories.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Guys you're making such a big deal of the Herzegovina origin. Just open Google Maps and you will realize that Malesia has almost the same distance from Herzegovina as it does from Kosovo.

    A Ragusan document from 1285 mentioned: "I heard a voice crying in the mountains in the Albanian language" (Audivi unam vocem clamantem in monte in lingua albanesca)". Behind Ragusa (modern Dubrovnik) is the Herzegovinian and Dalmatian hinterland.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    Nice try. If anything, J2-M205 should be a remnant of a Romanized population from the Middle East (e.g. Syrian archers in the Danube legions). So you should be looking at Vlachs as your ancestors not Illyrians.

    Before you go on a rampage, Vlachs were just about anyone who happened to live in the Balkans and was Romanized as seen by their haplogroups including locals, Germanic, Slavic, etc.
    In my opinion J2b1 was originally a Mycenaean haplogroup, later during Roman invasion became Vlach. Modern Greeks have less J2b1 because they are a fusion of Tsakonians, Arvanites, Anatolians, Pontians, Armenians, Georgians, Kurds, etc etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dema View Post
    As we all know many Albanian but also Montenegrin, so known Malisor tribes have oral tradition of origin in Hercegovina.

    I think that among many scientific proofs that DNA researches did, like confirming theory of evolution. They also confirmed that Malisor tribes originated in Malesia e Madhe. Incl North Albania and partially Montenegro. Rather then in Bosnia or Hercegovina.

    I see people post that these tribes like Kelmendi, Berisha, Hoti, and others have origin in Bosnia and Hercegovina. So i am asking myself can you people interpret genetic results?
    What we are talking here are 15 century Albanian tribes. So not 15 century BCE, but 15 century CE. 500 years ago.
    Its clear that most of these clans belong to haplogroups E-v13, R1b and J2b2. Rather then I2a-CTS10228 that dominates in Hercegovina up to 70 % with its highest peak there.

    So i dont see how these great masses of various tribes arrived 500 years ago, from a place where these haplogroups are barely visible. And from a place where other language then Albanian was spoken.
    Greater logic would be that tribes are formed out of Malesia, North Albania and Montenegrin villagers and native people, from a desire to protect their lands under their own clan flag within Ottoman empire.
    Just as for example British writer Noel Malcolm recorded in his book about Albanian clans history. Just as we can see today from genetic researches.

    Vasojevici are also native Montenegrin tribe, and their Croatian and Slovene relatives are also with Illyrian Montenegrin origin.
    Hoti, J2b2, Kelmendi E-v13 and so on.. I think Leki and some others know more about specific oral history, and Kelmendasi, im not into that but i can see genetic results and possibilities clearly.


    Regarding clans not all belonging to same haplo that is normal, that is purpose of clan. It is not brotherhood. When more people and head chiefs gather around the same flag. Of course same clans could be more uniform but from every clan is expected to recruit these that are worthy and i believe a kind of oath is taken there.

    So there is not a single evidence that would support theory that 15 century Malesia tribes originate in Bosnia or Hercegovina, but everything is pointing out Malesia e Madhe, N Albania and partially Montenegro. Mostly out of villagers and locals trying to protect their lands.

    30 % of E-v13 in Montenegro, Serbia, its mostly assimilated Albanians more recently or Illyrian remains. Same with J2b2 and R1b. But also J2b1-M205 that was for sure native Montenegrin Illyrian group, and belonged to old 12 century Kriqi tribe.
    Just asking, why you guys all are obsessed to know what's your Y-dna is? I really don't care about mine.

    Now, as for your statement, at least until 1000 ad, there wasn't any Albanian migration from Bosnia. However, before that date, probably there was some. According to serious linguists, Albanian language was spoken in proximity to old church Slavonic before 1000 ad. Slavic loanwords in Albanian predates 1000 ad. The same as with Latin. Slavic loanwords are too old. This means that Albans and Slavs lived side by side. According to Albanian clans seems that their claims aren't totally with no base. Some of Illyrian population were pushed southward during the seventh century and later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dema View Post
    Another Illiterate Idiot : D I am sorry to say but even Serbs and Croats in J2-M205 thread were telling you that you are delusional spammer and that you need to be banned for trash posting and spamming. Then on the other hand, you have told me on private that you have also been banned on Serbian forum Poreklo for spamming. I have seen your level of understanding and you dont understand simple SNPs, STRs and genetic distance. Therefore you make catastrophic mistakes in interpretation of things only how you wish and want to see them.

    Vlachs dont have "little" but only one J2-M205 as you said, but even this table that you copy pasted clearly says 1.
    Furthermore only two J2-M205 samples were found in this entire Aromun study and they were both in Albania. One was ethnic Albanian while another was Aromun. Aromun sample has another Albanian sample as closest match, and no Aromuns in sight. Also there were not tested only Andon Poci Aromuns abut also Albanians, Greeks, Macedonians, Romanians from Constanta, Romanians from Ploiesti, Aromuns from Dukasi in Albania, Aromuns from Andon Poci in Albania, Aromuns from Krusevo in Macedonia, Aromuns from the Stip region in Macedonia and Aromuns from Romania. And none of them had not even 1 sample of J2-M205, except for Albanian in Albania and one Aromun in Albania.

    Therefore thanks giving evidence on that what i was saying was truth!




    There is nothing to be wished for lol, my paternal line is without doubt Albanian and haplogroups dont represent modern ethnicity but rather ancient origin. I could have any haplogroup and still be Serb if i had Serbian MRCA, but not that i dont share Serbian MRCA with any M205 but even this haplogroup is extremely none Serb and none Slavic but rather entered recently in Serb ethnos. Do you understand what is Serbian MRCA or you need additional explanation? Only with Serbian MRCA you can prove to someone that he was a Serb, its not case with me.
    Serbs nor Slavs dont have any connection with J2-M205 except time when they assimilated Montenegrin and South Serbian population where they reached abnormally high percentages of haplogroups like E-v13 (Even 3x higher then their Slovene, Croat, Bosnian neighbors) but also clearly Albano Vlach groups like J2b2, R1b, J1, and of course one of the most alien group for South Slavs but for Slavs in general as it is one of most extremely non slavic groups that exist - J2-M205. J2- M205 for the first time enters in South Slavic but also Serb ethnos with assimilation of E-v13, J2b2 and primarily R1b, Albanian, Illyrian and Vlach haplogroups in Montenegro and surrounding areas.

    As it can be clearly seen by researches and best example to compare Serbs to also South Slavic nation - Slovenes. They clearly show same origin with Serbs having same I2a and R1a clades but what is alien to them just as to all other South Slavs is extremely high percentage of E-v13 that is accompanied with J2-M205. But also R1b+J2b2.

    Montenegrin clade of M205 Y22059 is one of most Illyrian M205 clades out there. Other M205 clades are Hellenic, Cypriot, Sardinian and rest of Mediterranean but of course, all clades are proto-semitic and most Mediterranean clades are Phoenician in origin.

    Albanians have multiple clades of M205 and found M205 from North to South while Serbs have only one clade they recently assimilated in montenegro with only 1000 years TMRCA, because its Illyrian Roman Kriqi tribe.

    You are lying with this SANU sponsored book just as you lied before in my M205 thread. You admitted that you are Deretic follower and that he is right about history. SANU also sponsored Deretic.
    Furthermore this book only purpose is to show that there was no Albanians in Kosovo prior to 17 century and that is why all old Albanian families were recorded as Serbs in that book, my family is nothing special, its plenty of them. Just to show that Kosovo was 100 % ethnically Serbian prior to 17 century which is absurd and laughable.

    Greeks Illyrians and Sardinians have contact with J2-M205 since 1500 BCE on Mediterranean sea. And both M205 and J2b2 have 1700 BCE Mediterranean ancient DNA while you were in Russia in that time.

    I know that you want to adopt J2-M205 because you want to prove Deretic theory that Serbs build pyramids.
    But i think you are after wrong haplo, i think its more about J1 and E-v22, M205 Pyramid sample was very young, 700 BCE. So you better stick with them
    If it was Phoenician, than why there's nothing J2b1 in ex Carthage areas? Cyprus is one of the most areas where we can find the ancient Mycenaean Y-dna intact till today.
    Large J2b1 in Serbs is due to the important trade Roman cities along the Danube. The civil populace of these cities probably got enslaved by the new coming Slavic people. Meanwhile the legionaries realised somehow to escape and be save in the hills.
    I bet for Mycenaean/Hellenic origin of J2b1, and secondly I bet for Illyrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    Wrong. Stop pulling numbers out of your bum. Kosova has only 3-5 percent "Slavic" Y-DNA. Even then theres no high resolution testing on these samples. Its Albania that has between 10-20 varying study to study.
    The highest Slavic Y-dna is in Tosks. In physical appearance looks more Slavic either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    I2a-Y3120 is certainly of Slavic origin. Y3120 has a TMRCA of around 2,200 years ago, so during the 2nd century BC , which is around the time that Proto-Slavic is believed to have been spoken somewhere in eastern Europe. 1,000BC - 1AD is the time frame in which some scholars believe Middle Proto-Slavic was spoken. Diversity and basal clades back up the claim that Y3120 arrived with Slavs from eastern Europe. Y3120 reaches highest diversity in the area around Poland, Ukraine, and Belarus which is precisely where some people believe Proto-Slavic originated from. Basal clades also show up more in eastern Europe than they do anywhere else. Y3120 downstreams also have relatively low TMRCAs suggesting an expansion during the Medieval.

    The ancestral clades of Y3120 though may have come from NW Europe given the fact that one was carried by a SHG sample from Motala, Sweden. As well as them being found today in west European countries. Though it is clear that one of these lines migrated east.
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...e01lidCaCPEsmY



    This area was probably the area of original Slavic people, or their ancient homeland. Take into account, that in earlier times the area was larger than it is today. It got someway reclaimed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    Awwww you were attacked? Are you ok now? You need some emotional support?

    You speak of logic a lot but what amazes me is how can haplogroups prove that they didn't come from a certain region? Weren't most of people in those regions L283 + E-V13 + R1b-Z2103 before the barbarian migrations? If they came indeed from there you expected them to be I2a-Din?

    Again, look at the distance between the current Albanian villages of Montenegro and Herzegovina. Albanians migrated mostly Southwards during the Middle Ages and reached as far as Peloponnesus and even became the majority in many Aegean Islands.

    But they couldn't have travelled 3-5 days on horseback from Herzegovina to Montenegro?

    Do you understand that with your theories you're giving up on the Lahuta Malcis? All the events happened in those areas and we are not the kind of people that need to steal other's heroism.
    You are mostly correct, except that don't take everything for granted about rhapsodies. They had all mixed rhapsodies back then

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dema View Post
    Are you handicapped?

    You dont understand and perhaps you do need some of that Suisse fondue to restore your brain cells?
    You dont understand that these Bosnian Illyrians that lived there 1500 years prior to formation of Albanian clans have nothing to do with almost exclusively Slavic Medieval Bosnia neither with Albanian clans that formed 1500 years later.

    Your brain is most certainly left without Suisse fondue which would trigger it into more advance thinking.

    So you think masses of E-v13 and J2b2 Illyrians arrived in horses in 15 century from a place where Slavic language was spoken and formed Albanian clans that were actually at that time under Ottoman Empire borders?

    Do you really think that? And you have 300 posts on Eupedia? God help us.

    What about lahuta? Did you try to stick it up in your ass? Maybe you discover new means of using it, i am not interested in fairy tales.
    We still remembers the atrocities of Stefan Dushan, and it was prior the Ottoman invasion. From my father's line I'm from Emathia (Mati). Some 400 years dwelling there before migrating from Mirdita. The earlier origin before settling in Mirdita the origin hails from the Ducagjin highlands or Malesia e madhe. This is oral memory. I need to ask my old uncle for better precise explanation.

    There would not be a surprise if some Albanian clans still had some old memories from an earlier migration from further north during the dark age circa from the seventh century until 1000ad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post


    What in hell are you talking about again? I'm not typing in Phoenician (although you should be able to understand that). Don't you think that those Bosnian Illyrians were also J2b, R1b, and E-V13?

    Educate yourself about the fact that Albanian was recorded in those mountains of Dalmatia (farther than Herzegovina) very early (13th century if I'm not mistaken) and that about 1/4 of of lastnames among Lika migrants were Albanian or Albanian-like while the majority were Vlachs/Slavicized Vlachs. One of the reasons they were fleeing was also the migrating Serbs from further East escaping the Ottomans. Those Serbs/Vlachs settled in Montenegro, Herzegovina, Bosnia, and Croatia, and even in the territories of Austria and Hungary.


    This is why I don't take you seriously as you're not one of us.


    Yeah sorry, I meant Eposi as I mentioned in an earlier post. Thanks.
    Your post is almost correct. The first time Albanian was recorded as a separate language after the fell of Roman empire it was in the inner highlands of Dubrovnik.
    Anyway stop saying that someone isn't Albanian just because if his Y-dna. It isn't Y-dna what makes someone ethnically Albanian. It's his dialect/language.
    How many ethnicities do you know that are still alive today by their own Y-dna haplos? None. It's the language what keeps us alive

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    Quote Originally Posted by Piro Ilir View Post
    We still remembers the atrocities of Stefan Dushan, and it was prior the Ottoman invasion. From my father's line I'm from Emathia (Mati). Some 400 years dwelling there before migrating from Mirdita. The earlier origin before settling in Mirdita the origin hails from the Ducagjin highlands or Malesia e madhe. This is oral memory. I need to ask my old uncle for better precise explanation.

    There would not be a surprise if some Albanian clans still had some old memories from an earlier migration from further north during the dark age circa from the seventh century until 1000ad.
    Are you from the northern Catholic part of Mati?

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13>CTS9320>Z38456

    Ethnic group
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    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Piro Ilir View Post
    Your post is almost correct. The first time Albanian was recorded as a separate language after the fell of Roman empire it was in the inner highlands of Dubrovnik.
    Anyway stop saying that someone isn't Albanian just because if his Y-dna. It isn't Y-dna what makes someone ethnically Albanian. It's his dialect/language.
    How many ethnicities do you know that are still alive today by their own Y-dna haplos? None. It's the language what keeps us alive
    Are you self-aware that you can't know everything and decide who is right and who is wrong? Among all Albanians here, you're the one with the least knowledge so do more reading and less posting.

    For me language means nothing as I've seen millions of my brothers join mostly the Montenegrin, Macedonian, Greek, Turkish, etc. ethnos while I see thousands that sell themselves as Pelasgians yet they're appearance and hidden family history points towards Egypt, Turkey, and Iran among others.

    I see square headed and blue/green eyed Sarandiots every summer speaking Greek and I feel pain and even anger towards them for hating us and joining another nation because of the situation created by the Ottoman Empire where Megali Idea and Nacertanije took advantage of.

    I feel closer to young Montenegrins, Serbs, and Greeks with a clear purpose in life (family, friends, honour, love, career, etc.) than to Elvis Naci and Shefqet Krasniqi and their pitiful followers.

    As for your dear friend Dema, I know how he and his wife look like as well as his obvious ideologies and an ancient Phoenician clade means nothing to me as I have nothing but respect for their history and the modern Levantine beauty ;)

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    T1a1l

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    ....
    Where in Albania are you from? Albanians with your clade are mainly found around Mirdita and Mat, I'm not aware of any Malesors from Malesi that fall within this group.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    This is why I don't take you seriously as you're not one of us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post

    I feel closer to young Montenegrins, Serbs, and Greeks with a clear purpose in life (family, friends, honour, love, career, etc.)

    We cant take you seriously tho, we are aware of identity crisis our diaspora Albanians go thru.
    You know me, you seen my pics? Big deal, i posted them all around.

    You dont know anything about life, let alone about me. You are probably living out of still milking your mother and living in her apartment.
    You are just one meaningless internet-TR0LL, i dont even know who you are, and first time i seen you in my life was when you were trash talking me to defend your Serbicized brother Aspurg few days ago, which is alright i fully support it, but it was hilarious how you magically vanished after hearing his Avaro Cuman theory.

    Look i dont care about you kid, if you need psychiatric help or someone to talk to you, you can answer to me and i will gladly help you. But know that you are not talking to one of your school buddies that you used to handle sheeps together. I am older and show some respect.

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