Malisor and N Albanian clans and their origin

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BTW, you are neither real Albanian neither real Christian, because being Christian for sure does not mean to hate others.
I have same respect for Hebrew just as for Christians and Muslims. If you have issues with that then you obviously dont understand what it means to be Christian in first place.

You are even more fake Christian then these Muslim Albanians pretending to be Christians, and going in Church does not make you Christian.

If you dont understand the essence then you are just a wasted soul.
 
Be even Rastafari if you want, your religion is your private thing, that's why i said 90 %, you are these 10 %. What are you bragging about Shkodra when i was there 3 days ago, strongest clans in Shkodra and Tuzi are my friends.

You are nobody, just some emigrant kid wanting some attention.


J2-M205 has 1700 BCE Sidonian aDNA, we have even older nearby Jordanian mountain 2500 BCE aDNA.
Alphabet you are using now is based on ancient Phoenician alphabet. You little illiterate and stubborn Illyrian, its no wonder you refuse to read and write, Illyrians were just like that.

We mummified ourselves in pre-Ptolemy 700 BCE Egypt inside of pyramid while you were handling sheeps.

We fought battles inside of Roman arena in middle of England (100-400 CE aDNA) while you handled sheeps.

Each time you hear J2-M205 you need to stand up on your feet and be silent 1 minute in sign of respect.

Now stop raging and behaving like some jealous spoiled kid.
Finally the anti-Albanian and anti-Illyrian feelings came out. It was about time you admitted that you see us the same way as the nations that hate us, a bunch of shepherds.

But I'm a proud descendants of warrior shepherds but it seems you were bullied so much for being different that you turned against us just like the Ashkali.

Strongest clans in Shkodra and Tuzi are your friends? lol Come on man, this is how Albanian kids speak like or those diaspora kids who watch movies with Albanian mafiosos and brag in front of their Western peers.

Which are these strong Shkodra clans that you speak of? Who am I kidding. You don't know anything, you just read some wikipedia article.

BTW, you are neither real Albanian neither real Christian, because being Christian for sure does not mean to hate others.
I have same respect for Hebrew just as for Christians and Muslims. If you have issues with that then you obviously dont understand what it means to be Christian in first place.

You are even more fake Christian then these Muslim Albanians pretending to be Christians, and going in Church does not make you Christian.

If you dont understand the essence then you are just a wasted soul.

Who said I was a Christian? You're developing imaginary foes now, little brave M205 gladiator?
 
Stop tr0lling my mighty warrior shepherd. You are lowest class among Albanians and should be last to have a right to open a mouth. You said yourself that your family are Christian but you are typical liar.

You escaped from Albania an should not speak about it

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Stop tr0lling my mighty warrior shepherd. You are lowest class among Albanians and should be last to have a right to open a mouth. You said yourself that your family are Christian but you are typical liar.

You escaped from Albania an should not speak about it

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And yet you keep avoiding my questions. Why couldn't some Albanians come from the nearby Herzegovina when your glorious ancestors created the alphabet and went as far as being gladiators in Roman Arenas? I hope you realize they were slaves who's life was sacrificed for entertainment.

And who are these strongest Shkodra clans that are apparently your friends?

Just because my family is Christian doesn't mean I am one. Like I said, I'm simply Albanian and an FC Barcelona sympathiser with hobbies such as fitness and nutrition and a career in finance/investments and AI. That's about it.

And remove the Albanian flag. I take offense in being related to people like you. Switch to those other flags you mentioned earlier if you have the courage to mention them again, or maybe you'll be a bit embarrassed now.

P.S. Thank you for your honesty with regards to your views on Albanians and our culture. I really feel much better that you're not an Albanian self-hater but rather an outsider. Which is understandable as our culture is a bit rough and strict on moral values that makes the lives of the others difficult but we do just fine with it and are rather proud.
 
I gave you very specific answer and you said nothing but commented on some stupidity about that New Zealand massacre which is obviously your top in understanding anything in life.


So let me repeat my answer since you were so stubborn to hear it:





You asked 5 times in what year it happened and it clearly says in 1450 after they abandoned League of Lezhe.
Here you can read how Arianiti and Dukagjini allied with Ottomans and fought against Skenderbeg, and dont forget that Dukagjini was before that allied with Serbian prince/despot...


And how Albanian tribes expanded, i suggest you start reading books, wikipedia, or google rather then asking stupid questions here.

No, you didn`t answer Dema. The only who speak stupid things here is you Dema. Because you want to talk about things that you know nothing. Where is written that Arianiti joined the Ottomans?
 
Get a life tr0lls, ill answer you later when i get time. You never leave house. Everyone knows Laberia he was fighting entire forum that i2a is not Slavic because there is more in Tosk then in Gheg, and he is afraid to test and even refused free Ydna test because he dont want to take any chances, he is extremely unsecure and never leaves his house. He does not believe in genetic research but only in some fairy tales.

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Get a life tr0lls, ill answer you later when i get time. You never leave house. Everyone knows Laberia he was fighting entire forum that i2a is not Slavic because there is more in Tosk then in Gheg, and he is afraid to test and even refused free Ydna test because he dont want to take any chances, he is extremely unsecure and never leaves his house. He does not believe in genetic research but only in some fairy tales.

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I don`t care what i2a is. I have never said that this i2a is not slavic. From what i read it is considered an slavic haplogroup. I refused your offer because i don't want to deal with people like you and your friends. You understand now? Get a life.
 
I don`t care what i2a is. I have never said that this i2a is not slavic. From what i read it is considered an slavic haplogroup. I refused your offer because i don't want to deal with people like you and your friends. You understand now? Get a life.
You care so little that you engaged arguing over 3 days with 20 different people telling you same thing. But you were posting again and again being stubborn 100 pages in a row. They even made memes with you being insecure.

You are almost 10 years spamming anthropologic forums and you still dont know what is haplogroup, what haplogroups Albanians have neither difference between R1B or J2b2.

You should be ashamed of ignorance and you are yet not tested and refused free Ydna test only because of insecurities and because you dont want to take any chances. You don't even believe in genetic research and you say its all lies, you said that few days ago.

You never leave house and you think you are helping Albaniabs writing stupidity 024 online on all possible forums that exist out there.







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You care so little that you engaged arguing over 3 days with 20 different people telling you same thing. But you were posting again and again being stubborn 100 pages in a row. They even made memes with you being insecure.

You are almost 10 years spamming anthropologic forums and you still dont know what is haplogroup, what haplogroups Albanians have neither difference between R1B or J2b2.

You should be ashamed of ignorance and you are yet not tested and refused free Ydna test only because of insecurities and because you dont want to take any chances. You don't even believe in genetic research and you say its all lies, you said that few days ago.

You never leave house and you think you are helping Albaniabs writing stupidity 024 online on all possible forums that exist out there.







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I think that i have spent more time than i should with an idiot like you Dema. Stop talking stupid things. Learn some basics about the history. And get a life.
 
This guy even begged Aspurg Bosnian/Montenegrin Serb to be accepted and called him brother and kissed his ass because they are same clade of E-v13, while last thing in life Montenegrin Serb Aspurg wanted is to hear Šiptar calling him a brother.

I do consider Albanians of that clade "cousins" because I am still at least a little closer to them than any other Albanian in terms of Y-DNA. You are misinterpreting my attitude towards Albanians as a usual attitude, but generally I am a bit Albanophilic and have been for years. One reason is the clan system which I like.

He was rather interested into Huno-Avar theory of origin rather then having anything with Albanians.

If I were a Kuchi/Kuqi I'd say I have paternal Albanian ancestry or even a Bjelopavlic whose exact connection is yet to be determined (unlike Kuchi who in 1485 even the today's Old Kuci Mrnjavcici had 50 %+ of Albanian first names Bjelopalvici at that time only had a few but they claim by tradition Dukagjin origin).

Albanians as an ethnicity are first mentioned in 11th century (that is I'm talking about mainstream 100 % reliable mention), and my Albanian cousins are atm 3000 yrs away from me. How can I reconstruct my own ancestry by using a clade that is so distant to me? That makes no sense whatsoever. Instead I look for those who cluster with me in nearer time frame. You know that exists a Swedish cluster closer to Albanians than me but still being 2800+ years away.

Fortunately I have a very unusual and easily spottable haplotype and I have closer relatives at places where I mentioned them. Most distant is a Hungarian who did 111 STR's and is 100 % member of my clade, connection with him is also 100 % connection with my closer relatives in Shop region.
And this Hungarian happens to be from Karcag, the most Cuman place in Hungary and is as of now the only person tested for Y-DNA from Karcag, so why is my only current cousin in Hungary (I don't count here kuzmosi branch upstream) found in Karcag of all places? According to Hungarian records about this family their ancestor was a possessor of Kunmadaras (also a Cuman place) in 1702 after these being taken over from the Ottomans. His paternal ancestor had the same name as a person mentioned in Karcag in the Ottoman defter of 1591 this surname is mentioned but it is not mentioned in Ottoman defter of 1571, the only two persons in 1571 who had the appropriate first name to be progenitors of this Gyorffi surname had surnames Kovacs and Csoreg, and between the 2 censuses Kovacs had the same numbers of houses and Csoreg reduced from 3 to 2. How is it not justified of me to suspect that Gyorffi descend of Csoregs. Csoreg means "soldier" in Cuman and this family is considered to have a certain Cuman origin. That's why I'm so interested and keen in having Csoreg tested because even a 23andme "V13" would confirm it. But there are also other families from Karcag who still have Cuman surnames such as Alacs or Kongur etc. Btw I've seen a sculptor who made Cuman statues in Karcag (and who by all account should be related to the guy who tested) calling Cumans "his ancestors", so they might know a bit that I don't..
I want more people from there tested asap..

You know that my second commercially tested cousin is from village Pecenevce near Leskovac who clusters not closely with me but with a Bulgarian. And that this village is mentioned already in (at least) 1498, that next to it there is village Chekmin also mentioned then. It is considered by all historians that Pecenevce is named after Pechenegs, this family has "unknown" origin in literature which means it is very likely indigenous to Pecenevce. Chekmin is most similar etymologically to Chekman who was a Berendei khan (some consider him Cuman) from late 12th century, and Berendei were part of a tribal federation called "The black hats" Chorni Klobuky which included Berendei, Torkil, Kovui and Pechenegs.. So you see this is no accident as both Cekmin and Pecenevce associate to black hats, as do the two villages of Berende found nearby in Shop region.

And ofc you know already in my native area carious Cuman and even Bulgar traces exist.

I think I already have myself a clear tribal designation. There was a very privileged group in Ottoman system called Vlachs of Sjenica mentioned already in 1455. They served as Voynuk soldiers the Ottomans and additionally they were guarding passes, because of that they were probably the most exempt group in Vlach status when it comes to taxes. (some of) The heads of this community were concentrated in two villages near Sjenica, 100 years ago my clan was the only family who had members recorded in both of these, and these branches are not my own near Bijelo Polje. Also 400+ years ago in one of these villages the name associating to my current surname (these were very rare) and one surname by tradition we had at some point (but its likely still younger than our tribal name) were also mentioned in those places.. This is a clear evidence IMO of connection. My family is native to Komaran west of Bijelo Polje where we had two villages named after us. Komaran is according to some named after Cumans. Komaran in 15th-17th century was entirely Vlach, that is all villages there had Vlach status, unlike Bihor East of Bijelo Polje where only some had it (mostly those neighboring Komaran and Sjenica nahiya's). The first certain member of my family recorded thus far had what is considered by various authors a Romanian first name, these names where common in areas that had Vlach status for obvious reasons and alot less in Bihor. But Vlachs of Sjenica surely had several hg's.. Some other interesting haplotypes are found there.

Bottom line going by all available genetic evidence I have thus far for my clade Illyrian ancestry is impossible. It's either Gelonians (depending on where yet untested clades found in Russia and certainly Caucasus too end up being on the tree) or Dacians, likely Free Dacians who mingled with other nearby peoples, I have to go by location where my most distant members of my cluster are found which is Karcag-Cluj-Napoca area, which are not that far between themselves, and actually between them is the Bihor area (and near BP western area is called Bihor as well might just a be coincidence). So which Dacian tribes are found there?

Tribes like Biephy, Cauci, Ansamenses, Costoboci or Gelonians are what I come from. My haplotypes weren't found in Albanians thus far, and we peak in Shop but that is extremely likely a bottleneck with a TMRCA of about 1000 ybp (all of us in the Balkan are closer to each other than any is to these Northern guys), because as of now I can say that every cousin commercially tested is found at a location with some Turkic nomad connection, we came from the north with Nomads, some might have arrived with Berendei/Pechenegs others with Cumans.

Btw already it can be said that basal diversity of E-Z17107 in Carpathian area is very significant (as is diversity of certain other CTS9320 clades) and that it indicates all Albanian descend from North of Danube as well, that may be in Iron Age but Albanian E-Z17107 came from the North..

It is not because of my "dislike of Albanians" that I push this theory (ofc I never disliked Albanians) but because I have some evidence for it and because I happen to like it alot.. (some of my relatives might not but I don't care about anybodies opinion really).. I don't care much about "theories" either, I'm into facts and making theories facts..

Btw I think the last time Dacians are reliably mentioned as a people was in 381 when some "Karpodakai" together with Huns and Scirii attacked the Romans..:)
 
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Some time ago I saw a video from Balkaninfo, these are some "un-mainstream" journalists from Serbia interviewing an Albanian historian and journalist.


Essentially he seems to be saying proper Albanians "are like Arabs/Turks".. Of course Balkaninfo called him for their reasons but this guy seems anti Albanian nationalism..:grin:
 
Some time ago I saw a video from Balkaninfo, these are some "un-mainstream" journalists from Serbia interviewing an Albanian historian and journalist.


Essentially he seems to be saying proper Albanians "are like Arabs/Turks".. Of course Balkaninfo called him for their reasons but this guy seems anti Albanian nationalism..:grin:

And for what reason you have posted this video here? Or because the instinct is too strong and you can't resist?
 
Some time ago I saw a video from Balkaninfo, these are some "un-mainstream" journalists from Serbia interviewing an Albanian historian and journalist.


Essentially he seems to be saying proper Albanians "are like Arabs/Turks".. Of course Balkaninfo called him for their reasons but this guy seems anti Albanian nationalism..:grin:

This nutcase is a quack. He is a pure anti albanian asset, he simultaneaously supports Erdogan and pushes for hyper islamization in the balkans, while also begging for Putin to "end the American dictatorship".
 
This nutcase is a quack. He is a pure anti albanian asset, he simultaneaously supports Erdogan and pushes for hyper islamization in the balkans, while also begging for Putin to "end the American dictatorship".

A new Kaplan Burrovich, for the happy of trollls like Aspurg.
 
And for what reason you have posted this video here? Or because the instinct is too strong and you can't resist?

Nah, Nik mentioned Dema as maybe having a more "Eastern inclination", then I remember seeing this guy who seemed ultra in that regard.. :D
 
Nah, Nik mentioned Dema as maybe having a more "Eastern inclination", then I remember seeing this guy who seemed ultra in that regard.. :D

I like your ever more esoteric ethnic affiliation. "Qun", "Ermi" LOL. Did you get this from the Lord of the Rings movies?
 
I like your ever more esoteric ethnic affiliation. "Qun", "Ermi" LOL. Did you get this from the Lord of the Rings movies?

Indeed I am esoteric in that regard. No, Qun is how Cumans called themselves, actually my own surname (which is at least 400 years old plus older indications of such a tribal name) etymologically might contain "qun", or it is a Slavic base with a double suffix which was more rare plus such double suffix was extremely rare or non-existent.

Ermi refers to the village Yarmen attested in Komaran near Bijelo Polje in Ottoman census of 1571, where to this day exists a village Gostun. the only Bulgar ruler of the Ermi clan was Gostun (btw one of voynuks in Gostun village in 1485 had a Cuman/Pecheneg name Dorman, the other had an East Slavic name foreign to those areas) The second village Yarmenovci in Rudnik area also exists. Family of Kumanicic was recorded in early 15th century, some historians say they descend from Bijelo Polje because of monastery of Kumanica there, but also a Church of Ramaca in Rudnik was also called Kumanica.. And in Rudnik I have families that are genetically related to me, (with Bulgarian root of surnames extremely odd for such an area) and also a separate branch of my own family claiming presence there since at least 17th century (and their tradition being proven most correct).

So Komaran/Bijelo Polje and Rudnik area have some things in common they don't share with other areas in Serbia/Montenegro/Bosnia/Croatia:
1) monasteries Kumanica,
2) villages Jarmen/Jarmenovci
3) my own genetic cluster which btw does not exist basically anywhere else in Serb ethnic territory (except some recent migrants) bar those Shop people near the Bulgarian border who are likely not of Serb origin..

And so it seems justified to connect Kumanicic family with Bijelo Polje area, I wonder which family might have something to do with them, basically other than mine no other has a recent genetic link to Shop/Bulgaria.. Plus ofc our ancestor was ktitor of Nikoljac monastery in Bijelo Polje, a medieval church/monastery, and there is indication this lasted for at least 160 years and likely into pre-Ottoman times.. Among Bosnian Serbs you will not find a ktitor of medieval monastery (because most were built after) and it is very rare generally.. This fact was always a clear indication that my family had a high status regardless of anything else..
As I said in 1253 Bulgarian or per others Bulgarian Cuman army raided precisely Bijelo Polje to honor a treaty with Dubrovnik, this is an event 100 % attested..

Some C-M48 haplotypes exist nearby among Bosniaks, but they have close matches in Anadolia so likely an Ottoman sipahi is their ancestor. Also recently a D-Y14736 was found in Bosniak from Sjenica, this is a Tatar link, haven't seen this cluster in Hungary thus far (some other D exists distant to this one), probably it's a more recent migrant in Ottoman times but I still give it a shot at some older migration. Ofc the factor is if presence of these is older in this area they should occur in modern ethnic Serbs nearby as well and they don't..

These are anyway still independent of the determinable genetic fact that my cluster came from the Shop in recent/Medieval times and prior to that from Greater Cumania or adjacent area to the East of it..:)
 
Indeed I am esoteric in that regard. No, Qun is how Cumans called themselves, actually my own surname (which is at least 400 years old plus older indications of such a tribal name) etymologically might contain "qun", or it is a Slavic base with a double suffix which was more rare plus such double suffix was extremely rare or non-existent.

Ermi refers to the village Yarmen attested in Komaran near Bijelo Polje in Ottoman census of 1571, where to this day exists a village Gostun. the only Bulgar ruler of the Ermi clan was Gostun (btw one of voynuks in Gostun village in 1485 had a Cuman/Pecheneg name Dorman, the other had an East Slavic name foreign to those areas) The second village Yarmenovci in Rudnik area also exists. Family of Kumanicic was recorded in early 15th century, some historians say they descend from Bijelo Polje because of monastery of Kumanica there, but also a Church of Ramaca in Rudnik was also called Kumanica.. And in Rudnik I have families that are genetically related to me, (with Bulgarian root of surnames extremely odd for such an area) and also a separate branch of my own family claiming presence there since at least 17th century (and their tradition being proven most correct).

So Komaran/Bijelo Polje and Rudnik area have some things in common they don't share with other areas in Serbia/Montenegro/Bosnia/Croatia:
1) monasteries Kumanica,
2) villages Jarmen/Jarmenovci
3) my own genetic cluster which btw does not exist basically anywhere else in Serb ethnic territory (except some recent migrants) bar those Shop people near the Bulgarian border who are likely not of Serb origin..

And so it seems justified to connect Kumanicic family with Bijelo Polje area, I wonder which family might have something to do with them, basically other than mine no other has a recent genetic link to Shop/Bulgaria.. Plus ofc our ancestor was ktitor of Nikoljac monastery in Bijelo Polje, a medieval church/monastery, and there is indication this lasted for at least 160 years and likely into pre-Ottoman times.. Among Bosnian Serbs you will not find a ktitor of medieval monastery (because most were built after) and it is very rare generally.. This fact was always a clear indication that my family had a high status regardless of anything else..
As I said in 1253 Bulgarian or per others Bulgarian Cuman army raided precisely Bijelo Polje to honor a treaty with Dubrovnik, this is an event 100 % attested..

Some C-M48 haplotypes exist nearby among Bosniaks, but they have close matches in Anadolia so likely an Ottoman sipahi is their ancestor. Also recently a D-Y14736 was found in Bosniak from Sjenica, this is a Tatar link, haven't seen this cluster in Hungary thus far (some other D exists distant to this one), probably it's a more recent migrant in Ottoman times but I still give it a shot at some older migration. Ofc the factor is if presence of these is older in this area they should occur in modern ethnic Serbs nearby as well and they don't..

These are anyway still independent of the determinable genetic fact that my cluster came from the Shop in recent/Medieval times and prior to that from Greater Cumania or adjacent area to the East of it..:)

Your steppe amazon ancestors must have had a weakness for Albanian guys, then.
 
Your steppe amazon ancestors must have had a weakness for Albanian guys, then.

If by Albanian you also mean Dacian (because per archaeological evidence Geloni descend of pre-Dacians anyway..) sure thing, everybody has a weakness to something I guess..

What's your hg anyway? Some of my guesses:
1. R1a M458 common in E.Germany
2. R1a Z280
3. J2b L283
4. R1b BY250 (maybe even BY611?)
5. Something "ordinarily" German.
 
If by Albanian you also mean Dacian (because per archaeological evidence Geloni descend of pre-Dacians anyway..) sure thing, everybody has a weakness to something I guess..

What's your hg anyway? Some of my guesses:
1. R1a M458 common in E.Germany
2. R1a Z280
3. J2b L283
4. R1b BY250 (maybe even BY611?)
5. Something "ordinarily" German.

:grin:

Thus far I've only had my maternal grandfather tested, and indeed he is R1a M458. His toponymic surname is associated with northern Germany and has an unmistably Slavic etymology.
 
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