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Thread: Mytrueancestry.com

  1. #2551
    Regular Member Salento's Avatar
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - SK1480
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12a

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    well, if I go by my top matches:

    1. Central Roman (590 AD) ..... 3.568
    - SZ43 -
    Top
    99 %
    match vs all users


    2. Central Roman (630 AD) ..... 4.975 - CL36 - ?
    99 %
    match vs all users


    3. Tuscan Medieval Villa Magna Italy (905 AD) ..... 6.017 - R60 -
    Top
    99 %
    match vs all users


    4. Protovillanovia Martinsicuro (930 BC) ..... 6.279 - R1 -
    Top
    99 %
    match vs all users


    5. Central Roman (590 AD) ..... 7.029 - SZ36 -
    Top
    99 %
    match vs all users

    1)SZ43::1. Tuscan (5.029)

    2. North_Italian (8.337)
    3. Albanian_Tosk (8.892)
    4. Kosovar (9.972)
    5. Italian_Abruzzo (10.12)
    6. West_Sicilian (10.53)
    7. Greek (11.71)
    8. Greek_Thessaly (12.65)

    2)
    1. Tuscan (6.059)
    2. North_Italian (6.723)
    3. Albanian_Tosk (11.58)
    4. Italian_Abruzzo (11.87)
    5. West_Sicilian (12.53)
    6. Kosovar (12.61)
    7. Spanish_Extremadura (13.81)
    8. Spanish_Murcia (13.89)

    3)
    1. Tuscan (5.034)
    2. Italian_Abruzzo (7.080)
    3. West_Sicilian (8.330)
    4. Albanian_Tosk (9.279)
    5. East_Sicilian (10.69)
    6. Central_Greek (10.77)
    7. North_Italian (11.17)
    8. Greek (11.32)

    4)
    1. North_Italian (5.281)
    2. Tuscan (8.820)
    3. Spanish_Andalucia (9.947)
    4. Spanish_Murcia (11.02)
    5. Spanish_Valencia (11.12)
    6. Spanish_Extremadura (11.12)
    7. Kosovar (11.37)
    8. Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon (11.94)

    5)
    1. Tuscan (2.937)
    2. Albanian_Tosk (7.987)
    3. North_Italian (8.213)
    4. West_Sicilian (8.444)
    5. Kosovar (8.963)
    6. Italian_Abruzzo (9.271)
    7. Greek (9.454)
    8. Greek_Thessaly (10.26)

    This tool puts me closer to Florentines than any other one I've used, but I'm more than happy with that. :)
    31. Central Roman (590 AD) ..... 14.36 - SZ43
    95
    Top 5
    1. Hellenic Roman Monterotondo (165 AD) ..... 10.25 - R1548 South_Italian

    2. Tuscan Medieval Cancelleria Basilica (1350 AD) ..... 10.85 - R1290 Tuscan

    3. Hellenic Roman (590 AD) ..... 11.6 - SZ40 Italian_Abruzzo

    4. Central Roman (590 AD) ..... 11.76 - SZ36 Tuscan

    5. Imperial Rome Centocelle (200 AD) ..... 11.82 - R49 South_Italian

    I think, ... distances: Clearly there’s an Ancient Population that has not yet been tested, ... the MESSAPI ... maybe

    @MTA
    ... if you find and add the Messapi I’ll upgrade to Olympus

  2. #2552
    Regular Member italouruguayan's Avatar
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    MtDNA haplogroup
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    Ethnic group
    Mixed , mostly Italian
    Country: Uruguay

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    It can't be true. You're one of us. :) Maybe it just doesn't work as well for people who aren't as inbred as some of us. :)

    My husband studied the classics in university. He had a great liking for Marcus Aurelius, kept a copy of his Meditations around, which was fine, but he also really liked Cato the Censor. I couldn't stand him. He thought Cato had strength of character and determination; I thought Cato was a bit mad, and a bore as well, and a perfect example of someone who could never forgive or forget. Talk about obsessions: whenever he was in the Senate, which was probably always, and no matter the topic of the discussion, whether it was the aqueduct or the sewers, or how much to pay for bread, he ended each lecture with: "Carthago Delenda Est" or Carthage Must Be Destroyed, and it was; he helped push Rome into the final war, and Carthage was destroyed and its people all sold into slavery. Total War first millennium B.C. style. Not their most admirable moment imo, but there you go, I guess that's how you build empires. The other total war was against the Jews, another bull-headed people. It didn't work out for them either.

    Then, like all empires, it fell. Climate, disease and other things finally brought them low. How the mighty are fallen, right?

    I'm reading a good book about it: The Fate of Rome; Climate, Disease and the End of Empire. I recommend it.

    Thanks Angela! :) Without a doubt, Cato was a man with a goal in his life. But after Carthage was destroyed and its site cursed with salt, the Romans, with their proverbial pragmatism, built in their place a new Carthage that was one of the main cities of the Roman Empire. I will try to get the book you recommend, it must be Very interesting.My matches with Carthaginians have surprised me, Mytrueancestry is a real box of surprises ...

  3. #2553
    Regular Member italouruguayan's Avatar
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1B U106 L44
    MtDNA haplogroup
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    Ethnic group
    Mixed , mostly Italian
    Country: Uruguay

    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    Very cool your results, ítalo.

    I think that in my history of ancient samples I alternate between conquered (Iberian and Celtiberian) and conquerors (Gallo-Romans).

    I believe that all we are a little bit of each one, lol.

    Today I'm a little tired.

    Tomorrow (here in Brazil and there in Uruguay)I am going to check my new results and see what changed in my MTA . After, I will post.

    Cheers.
    Hello Duarte!

    This hobby combines several things that have interested me since my adolescence: biological sciences and history. When I did my first genetic study, my interest was to know how many and what were my non-European components (which were evident in my maternal family), and my relationship with the Romans in the components inherited from my paternal side (ethnically 100% Italian) . In general, the results corroborated my previous assumptions, with some small surprises: my component from sub-Saharan Africa was lower than I thought (3%), the Native American component was higher (18%), and my Y-DNA indicated a possible relationship with those who contributed to destroy the Roman Empire (R1b U 106).
    And now, Mytrueancestry contributes more surprises ...

  4. #2554
    Regular Member italouruguayan's Avatar
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1B U106 L44
    MtDNA haplogroup
    A2

    Ethnic group
    Mixed , mostly Italian
    Country: Uruguay

    My first three matches...20200530_123123.jpg20200530_123148.jpg20200530_123212.jpg

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  5. #2555
    Regular Member italouruguayan's Avatar
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    Montevideo, Uruguay
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1B U106 L44
    MtDNA haplogroup
    A2

    Ethnic group
    Mixed , mostly Italian
    Country: Uruguay

    Deep Dive Europe20200530_130147.jpg

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  6. #2556
    Regular Member
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13

    Country: Albania

    Looks like these guys are Swiss Italians. Very dishonorable at making money in a grey zone lol.

  7. #2557
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    Country: USA - New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Progon View Post
    Looks like these guys are Swiss Italians. Very dishonorable at making money in a grey zone lol.

    Perhaps you'd care to explain yourself in English, if you please.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  8. #2558
    Regular Member Carlos's Avatar
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V22/YF66572
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5c1

    Country: Spain

    My mtDNA Deep Dive


  9. #2559
    Regular Member italouruguayan's Avatar
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1B U106 L44
    MtDNA haplogroup
    A2

    Ethnic group
    Mixed , mostly Italian
    Country: Uruguay

    Surely many have not seen matches like these ...



    Your closest Americas matches...
    (Smaller numbers mean closer matches to you)

    1. Iroquois Tribe Droulers St. Lawrence River (1515 AD) ..... 48.38 - DR-1797s-16061L
    Top 1 % match vs all users

    2. Iroquois Tribe Droulers St. Lawrence River (1515 AD) ..... 50.64 - DR-984-13054-1
    Top 1 % match vs all users

    3. Pacific Northwest Amerindian (850 AD) ..... 55.04 - BC386 - ?
    Top 1 % match vs all users

    4. Iroquois Tribe Droulers St. Lawrence River (1515 AD) ..... 56.89 - DR-984
    Top 1 % match vs all users

    5. Pacific Northwest Amerindian (150 AD) ..... 58.32 - BC125
    Top 1 % match vs all users

    6. Native American Washington State (6300 BC) ..... 58.56 - Kennewick
    Top 1 % match vs all users

    7. Amerindian Mikmaq New Brunswick (1625 AD) ..... 58.69 - MARC1492 -
    Top 1 % match vs all users

    8. Inuit Bering Strait (1325 AD) ..... 59.72 - I1125 -
    Top 1 % match vs all users

    9. Bering Sea (475 AD) ..... 59.85 - I7621 - ?
    Top 1 % match vs all users

    10. Alaskan Athabaskan (1235 AD) ..... 59.96 - I5320 -
    Top 1 % match vs all users

  10. #2560
    Regular Member
    Join Date
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    Posts
    1,188

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-M269 (LDNA)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5a1b

    Ethnic group
    Thracian
    Country: Greece

    Mine:

    Ancients:

    Byzantine + Gallo-Roman (8.744)
    Byzantine + Roman (9.342)
    Seleucid + Roman (9.892)
    Seleucid + Gallo-Roman (10.0)
    Seleucid + Byzantine (12.77)
    Roman (13.6)
    Seleucid (15.26)
    Byzantine (16.07)
    Gallo-Roman (19.47)


    image.py-2.jpg



    Modern

    1. Greek (6.885)
    2. Kosovar (7.737)
    3. Bulgarian (8.965)
    4. Albanian_Tosk (9.845)
    5. Macedonian (11.75)
    6. Bosnian (11.75)
    7. Greek_Thessaly (12.19)
    8. Romanian (12.46)
    Attached Images Attached Images

  11. #2561
    Regular Member
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    Country: Albania

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Perhaps you'd care to explain yourself in English, if you please.
    I can explain myself in Mandarin only.

  12. #2562
    Regular Member TardisBlue's Avatar
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    MtDNA haplogroup
    W3a1

    Ethnic group
    Cheesy macaroni
    Country: France

    I'm very pleased with the latest update for my Mom, it perfectly fits her ancestry. As for me, I would have expected SOME Belgae matches, but got none! My top populations haven't changed for a while. And yes, we both also got JP Marat (part Spanish - possibly marrano - part SW French). I match "Louis XVI'" s relic, but my Mom doesn't.







  13. #2563
    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
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    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels

    Quote Originally Posted by TardisBlue View Post
    I'm very pleased with the latest update for my Mom, it perfectly fits her ancestry. As for me, I would have expected SOME Belgae matches, but got none! My top populations haven't changed for a while.
    I ran 13 Belgian samples and none of them got Belgae in their top populations! Most get the Franks, Saxons or even Danish Vikings and Visigoths. Three have Celts and Gauls, but no Belgae. Very odd as almost everyone gets a genetic distance between 7 and 8 for individual Belgic samples.
    My book selection---Follow me on Facebook and Twitter --- My profile on Academia.edu and on ResearchGate ----Check Wa-pedia's Japan Guide
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  14. #2564
    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
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    Ethnic group
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progon View Post
    I can explain myself in Mandarin only.
    没问题。 请用中文解释。

  15. #2565
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    Mine:

    Ancients:

    Byzantine + Gallo-Roman (8.744)
    Byzantine + Roman (9.342)
    Seleucid + Roman (9.892)
    Seleucid + Gallo-Roman (10.0)
    Seleucid + Byzantine (12.77)
    Roman (13.6)
    Seleucid (15.26)
    Byzantine (16.07)
    Gallo-Roman (19.47)


    image.py-2.jpg



    Modern

    1. Greek (6.885)
    2. Kosovar (7.737)
    3. Bulgarian (8.965)
    4. Albanian_Tosk (9.845)
    5. Macedonian (11.75)
    6. Bosnian (11.75)
    7. Greek_Thessaly (12.19)
    8. Romanian (12.46)
    If you don't mind my asking, do your "modern" scores make sense to you?

    I ask because, like the Eurogenes calculators upon which it is undoubtedly based, no matter what they say, it gives me terrible "modern" scores, the worst I get with any calculator.

    It's one of the reasons I don't fully trust the ancient scores they produce all that much either. If they're wrong with moderns, how accurate can the ancient distances be? Then, there's the fact that they so conflict with my scores with the new ancient dodecad calculator.

  16. #2566
    Regular Member Regio X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    If you don't mind my asking, do your "modern" scores make sense to you?

    I ask because, like the Eurogenes calculators upon which it is undoubtedly based, no matter what they say, it gives me terrible "modern" scores, the worst I get with any calculator.

    It's one of the reasons I don't fully trust the ancient scores they produce all that much either. If they're wrong with moderns, how accurate can the ancient distances be? Then, there's the fact that they so conflict with my scores with the new ancient dodecad calculator.
    Angela, have you tried the G25 averages? Since you don't have your coordinates (I don't have mine either), you could try to use some sources as targets (for example, Tuscans and Ligurians - either averages or individuals), and see what it shows. What I think a bit strange is that they're not that close to each other in G25 as they are to other Italian pops.

  17. #2567
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    Angela, have you tried the G25 averages? Since you don't have your coordinates (I don't have mine either), you could try to use some sources as targets (for example, Tuscans and Ligurians - either averages or individuals), and see what it shows. What I think a bit strange is that they're not that close to each other in G25 as they are to other Italian pops.
    I'd be happy to give it a try, if you tell me what the numbers mean, i.e. the "headings" for the columns, and how to compare myself to them. I've never looked at it before.

    Ligurians:
    Italian_Liguria,0.113823,0.146236,0.027153,-0.011951,0.029236,-0.002231,0.00235,0.001154,0.009613,0.025331,-0.009743,0.002847,-0.013082,0.001101,-0.001086,-0.012463,-0.00665,-0.00038,0.003771,0.00075,-0.00025,0.000989,0.003944,0.000723,0.000599

    Tuscans:
    an_Tuscany,0.1186036,0.1487413,0.0136014,-0.0204997,0.0261587,-0.0090546,-0.00047,-0.0013845,0.0074991,0.0238972,-0.0002273,0.0054552,-0.0118631,-0.0045965,-0.0023797,-0.0002917,0.0040332,0.0004815,0.0038463,-0.0023929,-0.0012063,0.0024647,-0.0010436,0.00388,-0.0015885

    As I'd heard, he doesn't bother to include an Emilian source; almost as if he doesn't want to make it easy for me, as if I would ever use his tool.

    Does he even bother to list the sources for these populations, the data for each individual?

    If it's true, as I've also heard, that he only has one source for Liguria, and that one is from Genova, then I wouldn't expect a really close relationship to Toscana, although not a really distant one either.

    You know what it's like in Italy. The genetics can be different in different parts of the same province politically. That's how much variation there is in Italy. The greater area around La Spezia was always part of the Lunigiana. Only relatively late in history did the Genovese take it over. That's reflected in the language. Some linguists in La Spezia hold that "Spezzino" and Sarzanese, and the "dialect" spoken in Lerici are not precisely "Ligurian", but rather "languages of transition". Spezzino has been described, if I remember it correctly, as "Emiliano un po' ligurizatto". Lunigianese itself is a "dialect" or" language" of transition, Emiliano influenced by Toscano and Reggiano/Modenese as parts of it changed hands numerous times over history and also by Ligurian by influences from the coastal areas. So, you have a situation where the further north you go in the Lunigiana the more Emilian the dialect, west of the Magra River and down near Sarzana and the border with "political" Liguria, themore Ligurian influence, and east of the Magra and into the Apuan Alps, the more Tuscan the influence.

    The people are equally mixed and it started far earlier in time than even the genetics of the grandparents of the Spezzini would show. The surnames reflect it all. Many of the ones in eastern Liguria are found as or more frequently in Emilia and northwestern Toscana than in, say, Savona.

    I guess that's a long way of saying that I know the people from these areas might not be "really" close to, say, a sample from Genova, or a sample from Parma, or a sample from Siena, much less a person with ancestry from all three parts of the larger area, but some calculators do seem to do a better job them others.

    This sort of explains what I'm talking about, and why I don't quite "fit" the standard references, given I have two Emilian grandparents (but from the Appennino Tosco-Emiliano), one from the hinterland of La Spezia (but still technically Liguria, and west of the Magra), and one from the "middle" Lunigiana.

    https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunezia

    Too much information, but I know you'll "get" it.

  18. #2568
    Regular Member Carlos's Avatar
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V22/YF66572
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5c1

    Country: Spain

    Target: Karlos_scaled
    Distance: 4.5454% / 0.04545366
    100.0 Italian_Liguria

    Distance to: Karlos_scaled
    0.04545366 Italian_Liguria
    0.05726834 an_Tuscany

    Posting coordinates is like adding rice to pigeons.

  19. #2569
    Regular Member
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    10-05-19
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    860

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2-M223
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H2A3

    Ethnic group
    Italian-Siicly-South
    Country: United States

    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    Angela, have you tried the G25 averages? Since you don't have your coordinates (I don't have mine either), you could try to use some sources as targets (for example, Tuscans and Ligurians - either averages or individuals), and see what it shows. What I think a bit strange is that they're not that close to each other in G25 as they are to other Italian pops.
    Regio X: I read your post to Angela. I don't have my G25 coordinates either but I did use the Sicilian average and individual coordinates as the "Target" and ran the distances. The average Coordinates are pretty clear, Sicilian_West an Sicilian_East but do you know where the respective individual samples come from. For example, Sicilian_West Average is broken up to Sicilian_West10H, Sicilian_West4H and Sicilian_West7H while Sicilian_East Average is broken up to Siciian_East8H, Sicilian_East5H and Sicilian_East2H.

    Thanks in advance, PT

  20. #2570
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    25-06-18
    Posts
    1,188

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-M269 (LDNA)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5a1b

    Ethnic group
    Thracian
    Country: Greece

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    If you don't mind my asking, do your "modern" scores make sense to you?

    I ask because, like the Eurogenes calculators upon which it is undoubtedly based, no matter what they say, it gives me terrible "modern" scores, the worst I get with any calculator.

    It's one of the reasons I don't fully trust the ancient scores they produce all that much either. If they're wrong with moderns, how accurate can the ancient distances be? Then, there's the fact that they so conflict with my scores with the new ancient dodecad calculator.
    It's just for fun. For me it's kind of strange that my top score is Greek but Greek_Thessaly is at the bottom just above Romanian and below Bosnian. My own gut feeling is that I am a mix between Greek and local Thracian. In autosomal tests I come out 70% Greek and 30% Eastern Europe with no other info on Eastern Europe admix. I have looked at my matches in different commercial services and their admix is approximately the same as mine on both sides of my family. I should not have been surprised since the two villages my grandparents came from were barely 15km apart.

    Isn't the modern calculator they (mytrueancestry.com) use based on Eurogenes K15? Or is it K13? See if you can compare your mytrueancestry.com with the vahaduo k13 or K15.

  21. #2571
    Regular Member Regio X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I'd be happy to give it a try, if you tell me what the numbers mean, i.e. the "headings" for the columns, and how to compare myself to them. I've never looked at it before.

    Ligurians:
    Italian_Liguria,0.113823,0.146236,0.027153,-0.011951,0.029236,-0.002231,0.00235,0.001154,0.009613,0.025331,-0.009743,0.002847,-0.013082,0.001101,-0.001086,-0.012463,-0.00665,-0.00038,0.003771,0.00075,-0.00025,0.000989,0.003944,0.000723,0.000599

    Tuscans:
    an_Tuscany,0.1186036,0.1487413,0.0136014,-0.0204997,0.0261587,-0.0090546,-0.00047,-0.0013845,0.0074991,0.0238972,-0.0002273,0.0054552,-0.0118631,-0.0045965,-0.0023797,-0.0002917,0.0040332,0.0004815,0.0038463,-0.0023929,-0.0012063,0.0024647,-0.0010436,0.00388,-0.0015885

    As I'd heard, he doesn't bother to include an Emilian source; almost as if he doesn't want to make it easy for me, as if I would ever use his tool.

    Does he even bother to list the sources for these populations, the data for each individual?

    If it's true, as I've also heard, that he only has one source for Liguria, and that one is from Genova, then I wouldn't expect a really close relationship to Toscana, although not a really distant one either.

    You know what it's like in Italy. The genetics can be different in different parts of the same province politically. That's how much variation there is in Italy. The greater area around La Spezia was always part of the Lunigiana. Only relatively late in history did the Genovese take it over. That's reflected in the language. Some linguists in La Spezia hold that "Spezzino" and Sarzanese, and the "dialect" spoken in Lerici are not precisely "Ligurian", but rather "languages of transition". Spezzino has been described, if I remember it correctly, as "Emiliano un po' ligurizatto". Lunigianese itself is a "dialect" or" language" of transition, Emiliano influenced by Toscano and Reggiano/Modenese as parts of it changed hands numerous times over history and also by Ligurian by influences from the coastal areas. So, you have a situation where the further north you go in the Lunigiana the more Emilian the dialect, west of the Magra River and down near Sarzana and the border with "political" Liguria, themore Ligurian influence, and east of the Magra and into the Apuan Alps, the more Tuscan the influence.

    The people are equally mixed and it started far earlier in time than even the genetics of the grandparents of the Spezzini would show. The surnames reflect it all. Many of the ones in eastern Liguria are found as or more frequently in Emilia and northwestern Toscana than in, say, Savona.

    I guess that's a long way of saying that I know the people from these areas might not be "really" close to, say, a sample from Genova, or a sample from Parma, or a sample from Siena, much less a person with ancestry from all three parts of the larger area, but some calculators do seem to do a better job them others.

    This sort of explains what I'm talking about, and why I don't quite "fit" the standard references, given I have two Emilian grandparents (but from the Appennino Tosco-Emiliano), one from the hinterland of La Spezia (but still technically Liguria, and west of the Magra), and one from the "middle" Lunigiana.

    https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunezia

    Too much information, but I know you'll "get" it.
    The coordinates per se don't matter that much.

    Here is the idea. Firstly you open the modern averages:
    http://g25vahaduo.genetics.ovh/G25mo...d-averages.htm

    You keep the sources as they are. No need to change them. In the target, you can either inform the average of, say, Tuscany, which is in the same link (just copy the line for Tuscany in the source and paste it in the target), or you can inform as targets the Tuscan individuals separately, in http://g25vahaduo.genetics.ovh/G25modern-scaled.htm; also copying them from the sources and pasting them as target (pasting in the first page you opened - that one with averages as sources). Feel free to add as target any other coordinate you want.

    Once you have done that, you can go to "Distance" and click on "Run All". It works as an Oracle.

    This is the associated PCA (there is a zoom, and you can also filter by area; I selected here "Europe 1"): https://vahaduo.github.io/g25views/#Europe1

    But you're right. Liguria has only one sample associated (I've no idea on where it comes from), as you can see in the second link I posted above, which possibly explains the relatively high distance to Tuscany compared to other areas.

    And thanks for your explanations. Very interesting! Your area seems really peculiar, with mountains and two other regions bordering, with their own peculiarities, but also a bit heterogeneous themselves. Do you generally plot closer to Emilians, Tuscans or Ligurians then?
    Btw, my father's paternal grandmother was born in Mantova province, Lombardy. Not sure it makes any difference in these tools. Anyway, I also have ancestry from different areas inside Veneto, and it's possible they would tend to plot differently. Not sure.

    @Palermo
    Sorry. I don't know where the samples come from.

  22. #2572
    Regular Member
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    25-06-18
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    1,188

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-M269 (LDNA)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5a1b

    Ethnic group
    Thracian
    Country: Greece

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I'd be happy to give it a try, if you tell me what the numbers mean, i.e. the "headings" for the columns, and how to compare myself to them. I've never looked at it before.

    Ligurians:
    Italian_Liguria,0.113823,0.146236,0.027153,-0.011951,0.029236,-0.002231,0.00235,0.001154,0.009613,0.025331,-0.009743,0.002847,-0.013082,0.001101,-0.001086,-0.012463,-0.00665,-0.00038,0.003771,0.00075,-0.00025,0.000989,0.003944,0.000723,0.000599

    Tuscans:
    an_Tuscany,0.1186036,0.1487413,0.0136014,-0.0204997,0.0261587,-0.0090546,-0.00047,-0.0013845,0.0074991,0.0238972,-0.0002273,0.0054552,-0.0118631,-0.0045965,-0.0023797,-0.0002917,0.0040332,0.0004815,0.0038463,-0.0023929,-0.0012063,0.0024647,-0.0010436,0.00388,-0.0015885

    As I'd heard, he doesn't bother to include an Emilian source; almost as if he doesn't want to make it easy for me, as if I would ever use his tool.

    Does he even bother to list the sources for these populations, the data for each individual?

    If it's true, as I've also heard, that he only has one source for Liguria, and that one is from Genova, then I wouldn't expect a really close relationship to Toscana, although not a really distant one either.

    You know what it's like in Italy. The genetics can be different in different parts of the same province politically. That's how much variation there is in Italy. The greater area around La Spezia was always part of the Lunigiana. Only relatively late in history did the Genovese take it over. That's reflected in the language. Some linguists in La Spezia hold that "Spezzino" and Sarzanese, and the "dialect" spoken in Lerici are not precisely "Ligurian", but rather "languages of transition". Spezzino has been described, if I remember it correctly, as "Emiliano un po' ligurizatto". Lunigianese itself is a "dialect" or" language" of transition, Emiliano influenced by Toscano and Reggiano/Modenese as parts of it changed hands numerous times over history and also by Ligurian by influences from the coastal areas. So, you have a situation where the further north you go in the Lunigiana the more Emilian the dialect, west of the Magra River and down near Sarzana and the border with "political" Liguria, themore Ligurian influence, and east of the Magra and into the Apuan Alps, the more Tuscan the influence.

    The people are equally mixed and it started far earlier in time than even the genetics of the grandparents of the Spezzini would show. The surnames reflect it all. Many of the ones in eastern Liguria are found as or more frequently in Emilia and northwestern Toscana than in, say, Savona.

    I guess that's a long way of saying that I know the people from these areas might not be "really" close to, say, a sample from Genova, or a sample from Parma, or a sample from Siena, much less a person with ancestry from all three parts of the larger area, but some calculators do seem to do a better job them others.

    This sort of explains what I'm talking about, and why I don't quite "fit" the standard references, given I have two Emilian grandparents (but from the Appennino Tosco-Emiliano), one from the hinterland of La Spezia (but still technically Liguria, and west of the Magra), and one from the "middle" Lunigiana.

    https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunezia

    Too much information, but I know you'll "get" it.
    Sometimes, when people come from two sides of a mountain range they tend to have different genetics. Just remember that back then transportation was a much more daunting endeavor particularly for mountain people. It's one thing to go from the high mountains to the foothills and completely another to go to the other side of the mountain range. Over the years there is a lot of genetic and linguistic drift.

  23. #2573
    Regular Member Salento's Avatar
    Join Date
    30-05-17
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - SK1480
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12a

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States

    ... so, if for example I clearly match a modern population ... let’s say from dod K12b, I could theoretically borrow the G25 coordinates of the same population and get my General G25 Results.

    ... that’s cheating, lol and ... not my real results!

    ... but anyway:

    my real top dod K12 modern results :)
    Distance to: S_dod_k12
    3.13945983 Italy_Apulia
    4.78208110 Italy_Abruzzo


    Average Modern Apulia G25 coordinates:
    Code:
    Puglia Scaled G25:
    
    Italian_Apulia,0.1107119,0.1482673,-0.0037713,-0.0401381,0.0158388,-0.0151159,-0.0009557,-0.0016153,0.0027951,0.0206898,-0.0002273,0.0038765,-0.0064717,0.0011929,-0.0081071,-0.0038982,0.0016691,0.0005997,0.0027485,-0.0051524,-0.0038098,0.0019619,0.0017584,0.0014379,-0.0005667
    
    Puglia Unscaled G25:
    
    Italian_Apulia,0.0097267,0.0146,-0.001,-0.0124267,0.0051467,-0.00542,-0.0004067,-7e-04,0.0013667,0.0113533,-0.00014,0.0025867,-0.0043533,0.0008667,-0.0059733,-0.00294,0.00128,0.0004733,0.0021867,-0.00412,-0.0030533,0.0015867,0.0014267,0.0011933,-0.0004733

  24. #2574
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    10-05-19
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2-M223
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H2A3

    Ethnic group
    Italian-Siicly-South
    Country: United States

    Regio_X:

    Ok, thanks for the reply.

    Cheers

  25. #2575
    Regular Member Salento's Avatar
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - SK1480
    MtDNA haplogroup
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    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States

    Experiment:

    G25-Apulia-sample ... K36-like G25 Model vs my K36 similarity map

    Almost: the Apulia-G25 gets one of my Top 2 places, (Lazio).

    ... somewhat similar, I think.




    my map:

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