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  1. #251
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    It seems that, in my case, practically all the samples of the ancestral populations are concentrated in the center-east of Europe. Nothing above latitude "Velké Přílepy (Czechia) - 50 ° 9'37" N", nothing below latitude “Dubrovnik (Croatia) - 42 ° 38'25" N" and nothing east of longitude "Tiraspol (Moldova) - 29 ° 38'36”E “.




    This fact causes me surprise because it seems to be in line with this:
    MDLP K23b Oracle results:

    MDLP K23b Oracle Rev 2014 Sep 1

    The map is a little bit deceiving, Duarte. Those people to whom you're related in the Langobard settlements are "genetically" much further "south" than they are geographically.

    The circles are just where they were found.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    The map is a little bit deceiving, Duarte. Those people to whom you're related in the Langobard settlements are "genetically" much further "south" than they are geographically.

    The circles are just where they were found.
    Thank you, Angela :)
    I was so curious that I mounted this worksheet by comparing my data with the data of some of the populations that are listed in the GEDmatch MDLP K23b worksheet:


    MDLP K23b Admixture Proportions - Spreadsheet
    Population Me (Duarte) Portuguese Spanish_Galicia_IBS Spanish_Murcia_IBS Spanish_Baleares_IBS Spaniard French
    Amerindian 1.19 0.18 0.21 0.32 0.15 0.09 0.21
    Ancestral_Altaic 1.73 1.69 2.37 1.82 2.74 1.96 3.94
    South_Central_Asian 2.63 3.68 3.40 3.67 3.24 3.73 4.53
    Arctic 0.00 0.10 0.18 0.10 0.09 0.15 0.06
    South_Indian 0.68 0.54 0.40 0.69 0.39 0.39 0.33
    Australoid 1.08 0.12 0.17 0.19 0.12 0.13 0.19
    Austronesian 0.00 0.06 0.18 0.25 0.17 0.06 0.10
    Caucasian 20.38 19.20 16.89 17.55 23.03 19.25 20.16
    Archaic_Human 0.00 0.16 0.14 0.08 0.04 0.08 0.03
    East_African 0.68 0.70 0.43 0.75 0.47 0.32 0.11
    East_Siberian 0.00 0.18 0.15 0.12 0.14 0.13 0.06
    European_Early_Farmers 35.01 38.32 43.05 44.44 40.95 42.93 36.44
    Khoisan 0.00 0.17 0.19 0.14 0.13 0.19 0.06
    Melano_Polynesian 0.00 0.11 0.11 0.14 0.51 0.15 0.12
    Archaic_African 1.33 0.58 0.41 0.41 0.15 0.20 0.03
    Near_East 2.94 3.49 4.01 4.63 4.27 3.61 1.71
    North_African 5.78 9.11 5.82 6.43 3.58 4.55 1.70
    Paleo_Siberian 0.00 0.18 0.12 0.15 0.15 0.14 0.07
    African_Pygmy 1.37 0.11 0.17 0.23 0.12 0.15 0.07
    South_East_Asian 0.16 0.07 0.08 0.09 0.10 0.07 0.09
    Subsaharian 3.84 0.23 0.58 0.34 0.15 0.14 0.03
    Tungus-Altaic 0.00 0.05 0.12 0.14 0.12 0.07 0.07
    European_Hunters_Gatherers 21.17 20.98 20.82 17.32 19.19 21.51 29.90
    Last edited by Duarte; 22-04-19 at 19:06. Reason: I changed the spreadsheet.
    “Às vezes ouço passar o vento; e só de ouvir o vento passar, vale a pena ter nascido”.
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    Y-DNA haplogroup: R1b > M269 > L23 > L51 > P310 > L151 > P312 > DF27 > ZZ12 > ZZ19 > Z31644 > BY2285 > BY25634 > FGC35133

  3. #253
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Ahí va el mío.










    By dna Y get this result. By mitochondrial dna do not get results in this category.
    Last edited by Carlos; 22-04-19 at 23:06.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    This app is demonstrating however that we are in dire need of samples from south illyria, inland illyria, dardania, epirotes, ancient macedonians, etc. We only have myceneans, and coastal illyrians so far. Also, do we have any etruscan samples yet?
    "As we have already stressed, the mass evacuation of the Albanians from their triangle is the only effective course we can take. In order to relocate a whole people, the first prerequisite is the creation of a suitable psychosis. This can be done in various ways." - Vaso Cubrilovic

  5. #255
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    Ahí va el mío.










    By dna Y get this result. By mitochondrial dna do not get results in this category.
    Hi Carlos,
    Map very Similar to mine, except the blue point in northeast of England that you have and I do not have :)

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    mine, can't post pictures yet:

    Scythian + Gallo-Roman (9.097)

    Scythian + Gaul (12.64)
    Gaul (16.02)
    Scythian (16.11)
    Gallo-Roman (17.44)

    1. Medieval Tyrolian (590 AD) (14.54)
    2. [Hidden] - upgrade your account (15.52)
    3. Cisalpine Gaul (590 AD) (16.02)
    4. [Hidden] - upgrade your account (16.11)
    5. Gallo-Roman (590 AD) (17.44)
    6. [Hidden] - upgrade your account (17.72)
    7. Central Roman (590 AD) (18.05)
    8. [Hidden] - upgrade your account (18.08)
    9. Illyrian / Dalmatia (1600 BC) (18.45)
    10. [Hidden] - upgrade your account (18.45)
    11. Medieval Tyrolian (670 AD) (18.69)
    12. [Hidden] - upgrade your account (18.88)
    13. Iberian / Piedmont (670 AD) (19.1)
    14. [Hidden] - upgrade your account (19.57)
    15. Medieval Piedmont (670 AD) (19.76)
    16. [Hidden] - upgrade your account (19.78)
    17. Scythian Moldova (300 BC) (19.86)
    18. [Hidden] - upgrade your account (20.09)
    19. Central Roman (670 AD) (20.36)
    20. [Hidden] - upgrade your account (20.42)

    1. Bosnian (7.196)
    2. Serbian (9.557)
    3. Macedonian (10.13)
    4. Romanian (10.47)

  7. #257
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    ^^
    Duarte
    Sí, lo había visto. Qué alegría, estamos muy cerca, aunque el Océano Atlántico ha separado nuestros destinos para siempre, el nuestro es imposible.

    Last edited by Carlos; 23-04-19 at 05:05.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    This app is demonstrating however that we are in dire need of samples from south illyria, inland illyria, dardania, epirotes, ancient macedonians, etc. We only have myceneans, and coastal illyrians so far. Also, do we have any etruscan samples yet?
    Hi Johane,
    I do not know how to respond your question about the Etruscan samples because MyTrueAncestry only relate the samples that are related to you (match with you). For example, Carlos exhibited the 60 samples that are relate to him.
    The ones that are related to me are the following:




    In this topic you will may see that there are tests of Britons and descendants of Britons and you will can see that the ancestral samples displayed to them are others.

    Big Hug :)

  9. #259
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    I got the Footman features; now my 20 first Archeological matches are revealed:

    Archeogenetic matches.jpg

    Does it make sense? Is it possible that my data was corrupted on upload? Where can I find more info on this "Scythian Moldova (270 BC)" sample?

  10. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    ^^
    Duarte
    Yes, I had seen it. What a joy, we are very close, although the Atlantic Ocean has separated our destinies forever, ours is impossible.



    I think this program does everything for me. And since I do not obtain data from all of Spain with my mitochondrial DNA, I have tried even in the south-west of France and there is no data. Later I will try to see what happens.


    Here I have got closer to 3 with Valencia, notice that years ago I was told by an expert in genealogy that my paternal surname being from Malaga I saw that it could come from a Valencian settler and that the surname had become Castilianized, a possibility.
    I did not know this functionality Carlos. Very cool :)

    Quote Originally Posted by voloh View Post
    mine, can't post pictures yet:

    Scythian + Gallo-Roman (9.097)

    Scythian + Gaul (12.64)
    Gaul (16.02)
    Scythian (16.11)
    Gallo-Roman (17.44)

    1. Medieval Tyrolian (590 AD) (14.54)
    2. [Hidden] - upgrade your account (15.52)
    3. Cisalpine Gaul (590 AD) (16.02)
    4. [Hidden] - upgrade your account (16.11)
    5. Gallo-Roman (590 AD) (17.44)
    6. [Hidden] - upgrade your account (17.72)
    7. Central Roman (590 AD) (18.05)
    8. [Hidden] - upgrade your account (18.08)
    9. Illyrian / Dalmatia (1600 BC) (18.45)
    10. [Hidden] - upgrade your account (18.45)
    11. Medieval Tyrolian (670 AD) (18.69)
    12. [Hidden] - upgrade your account (18.88)
    13. Iberian / Piedmont (670 AD) (19.1)
    14. [Hidden] - upgrade your account (19.57)
    15. Medieval Piedmont (670 AD) (19.76)
    16. [Hidden] - upgrade your account (19.78)
    17. Scythian Moldova (300 BC) (19.86)
    18. [Hidden] - upgrade your account (20.09)
    19. Central Roman (670 AD) (20.36)
    20. [Hidden] - upgrade your account (20.42)

    1. Bosnian (7.196)
    2. Serbian (9.557)
    3. Macedonian (10.13)
    4. Romanian (10.47)
    Cool results voloh :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by HYGILI4K View Post
    I got the Footman features; now my 20 first Archeological matches are revealed:

    Archeogenetic matches.jpg

    Does it make sense? Is it possible that my data was corrupted on upload? Where can I find more info on this "Scythian Moldova (270 BC)" sample?
    Yes. This make sense for Iberians.
    See below.
    My data:





    Last edited by Duarte; 23-04-19 at 01:05. Reason: added one more pic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HYGILI4K View Post
    I got the Footman features; now my 20 first Archeological matches are revealed:

    Archeogenetic matches.jpg

    Does it make sense? Is it possible that my data was corrupted on upload? Where can I find more info on this "Scythian Moldova (270 BC)" sample?
    Mine again:
    Your closest Ancient populations...

    Gallo-Roman



    Gallo-RomansIllyriansScythians


    Gallo-Roman (6.896)
    Gallo-Roman + Illyrian (7.4)
    Scythian + Gallo-Roman (7.682)
    Illyrian (11.54)
    Scythian (12.23)

    5. Scythian Moldova (270 BC) (12.23) - scy192:

    https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/10/eaat4457

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    @Duarte

    Thank you very much, my friend. I think will install Total War Rome 2 to play as scythians

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    This app is demonstrating however that we are in dire need of samples from south illyria, inland illyria, dardania, epirotes, ancient macedonians, etc. We only have myceneans, and coastal illyrians so far. Also, do we have any etruscan samples yet?
    Dear Johane.
    In the group of modern populations of MyTrueAncestry Albanians are not listed, but the Kosovans are listed. In this case they offer the following correlations with modern and ancient populations:





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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Are you European?

    Distances like that as your closest is strange. Perhaps you should ask them to re-run it.
    Thanks i think you could be right.
    ill try again when im better had a spell at the hospital and been dosed up with meds.

    Ive a strange ancestry anyway With a Ethiopian Great grandad (Mothers grandfather) who was of royal birth.
    I get around 11% split between East african and near eastern.

    My X2 pat grandfather was born in ireland moves to england 1880s of which ancestry gives me 0% Irish, 23andme mixes in so you cant see it.
    So im 90% English of irish decent and 10% East African of Near Eastern decent. I think.

    Ive tested myself on ftdna/ ancestry/ 23andme also my mum on ancestry and her brother on 23andme/ancestry.

    I may have uploaded one of there kits by mistake but even so they would still be strange results ?

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by markod View Post
    It looks like Croatians and Bosnians still sit on a more or less perfect cline between ancient West Balkanic samples and Ukrainians/Russians. I think it wouldn't be far fetched to say that BA West Balkanic populations could have contributed some ancestry to those groups.



    It's the Serbs and the Albanians who can't be derived from that two-way mixture, as both have significantly inflated West Asian (CHG) ancestry.
    Albanians are in a perfect cline between Illyrians and Ancient Grecian groups, many of us closer to Illyrian. Makes perfect sense considering our geographic position between this sample and Greece.

    Now you should stop being a retard when it comes to Albanians and git gud at deciphering autosomal maps.

    Also, we carry the patrilineal legacy of the Illyrian groups, that alone is enough.

    You ignorant rat, spreading nonsense, I've seen Gheg Albanians plot near North Italy, that's right next to the Illyrian sample, while hailing far south of that sample GEOGRAPHICALLY.

    Take your autistic drivel elsewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatherland View Post
    Albanians are in a perfect cline between Illyrians and Ancient Grecian groups, many of us closer to Illyrian. Makes perfect sense considering our geographic position between this sample and Greece.

    Now you should stop being a retard when it comes to Albanians and git gud at deciphering autosomal maps.

    Also, we carry the patrilineal legacy of the Illyrian groups, that alone is enough.

    You ignorant rat, spreading nonsense, I've seen Gheg Albanians plot near North Italy, that's right next to the Illyrian sample, while hailing far south of that sample GEOGRAPHICALLY.

    Take your autistic drivel elsewhere.
    2 Bronze Age Dalmatians and 1 Bronze Age Montenegrin were Iberian-like.

    1 Bronze Age Pannonian was French-like.

    Care to explain where the CHG-shift affecting Serbs, Albanians, Vlachs etc. comes from?

  18. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by markod View Post
    2 Bronze Age Dalmatians and 1 Bronze Age Montenegrin were Iberian-like.

    1 Bronze Age Pannonian was French-like.

    Care to explain where the CHG-shift affecting Serbs, Albanians, Vlachs etc. comes from?
    Slow down, you are basing this certainty on an amatuer run done by tomenable with private commercially tested gedkit samples being compared to results that were done by research labs. Technically its not a fair test since the variables aren't controlled.

    Who knows what type of artifacts and skews the data can produce, since its likely different chips entirely were used for that plot (which is quite old, and is missing albanians entirely as a reference) and
    these more recent tests.

    Has he run a mycenean on this plot? where do they show up? Are they also iberian like

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    Quote Originally Posted by markod View Post
    Care to explain where the CHG-shift affecting Serbs, Albanians, Vlachs etc. comes from?
    It seems to affect Abruzzo, Tuscans, also. So i want to hear this, since you keep alluding to it, it's obvious you have a theory

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    People take this calculator way too literal. Also seem to forget the introduced admixtures pulled Albanians eastward from antiquitous samples. Regardless Albanians predominantly descend from Illyrian and possibly Thracian YDNA paternally. Whilst the base ancestry can be filtered out, the core lineages are all there. Its sensational to assume North Italians and Iberians are ACTUALLY related to Illyrians in any meaningful way or even more than Albanians for that matter.

    Theres also the mention of no southern illyrian samples or epirotes which will probably be even closer to Albanians. Rather they have similar admixture levels and probably weren't that ethnically diverse back then. Also it starts to make sense of some of my own South-West Iberian/Sardinian like shift. Which makes more sense to be preserved admixture rather than actual Sardinian or Iberian like ancestry. Over 2 thirds of Albanian YDNA is Paleo-Balkan. Doesn't matter how autosomal shifted. No one is saying Illyrians are Albanians. It cannot be denied that Albanians are from Illyrians.

    For example, my cousin is fully Albanian and his wife is Norwegian and partly Swedish. Their son comes out Macedonian and Montenegrin like on calculators. The northern and southern admixtures were more in level with these aforementioned populations. Maybe people need take that into account not to assume similar admixture level is due to actual ancestry from that population, or just having similar admixture. Isn't IBD sharing apparently more conclusive?

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    @O'Neill,
    They would be strange results for any European, imo.

    General Comment:

    The "Illyrian" samples used in this calculator are clearly representative of admixed Balkan MLN farmers and groups from the steppe. They are indeed less CHG than some Italians and some people in the Balkans.

    It doesn't mean they didn't form part of the ethnogenesis of some of those groups.

    Some groups, however, are indeed more closely related to them than others. That doesn't mean that "Illyrians", for example, went to Spain. In the case of Italians, people like them may have moved into Northeastern Italy and beyond.

    As to CHG/Iran Neo like ancestry, I used to needle some vehement supporters of the Tuscans are descendants of people from Asia Minor who sailed to Italy in the first millennium BC to explain why then people like Albanians and other Balkanites also have high levels.

    I think the answer is probably, as we've speculated before, that there was a later movement from the direction of Asia Minor/the Aegean, into southeast, southcentral, and even, to some extent, southwestern Europe.

    I fail to understand why it's a problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    Slow down, you are basing this certainty on an amatuer run done by tomenable with private commercially tested gedkit samples being compared to results that were done by research labs. Technically its not a fair test since the variables aren't controlled.

    Who knows what type of artifacts and skews the data can produce, since its likely different chips entirely were used for that plot (which is quite old, and is missing albanians entirely as a reference) and
    these more recent tests.

    Has he run a mycenean on this plot? where do they show up? Are they also iberian like
    All analyses I've seen are pretty much in agreement (I think Eurogenes has done all of them), as are the distances to modern populations.

    As for the origin of the CHG shift, peninsular Italy was likely settled by Bronze Age Aegeans, perhaps directly from Anatolia. In the Western Balkans I'd think that an Eastern Balkanic origin makes more sense, perhaps from the Transylvanian highlands where the various steppe tribes didn't settle.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Highly speculative and highly unlikely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markod View Post
    All analyses I've seen are pretty much in agreement (I think Eurogenes has done all of them), as are the distances to modern populations.

    As for the origin of the CHG shift, peninsular Italy was likely settled by Bronze Age Aegeans, perhaps directly from Anatolia. In the Western Balkans I'd think that an Eastern Balkanic origin makes more sense, perhaps from the Transylvanian highlands where the various steppe tribes didn't settle.
    Ah yes, Eurogenes, the most honest reliable guy on the web.

    The guy recently wrote a post on J2b and literally went out of his way to find a never before used "L282" mutation to define J2b. The only purpose being obviously
    so that people confuse it with J2b2-L283.

    He seems to be in agreement with you:

    "So how did Y-haplogroup J2b get to Europe? My view for now is that it mostly arrived with a few sailors from the Near East during the Early to Middle Bronze Age"

    To build this argument about J2b2-L283 he also just says "J2b" and uses J2b1-M205, which has an entirely different history, and split from L283 16,000 years ago.

    Actually getting to understand the past doesn't seem to be the focus, but rather muddying the waters, and intentionally confusing people.

    Also this idea about Transylvanian CHG is just not feasible.

    http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/0...to-europe.html

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    https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%A1ntabros
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantabri


    Origin Spanish wikipedia


    Estela Cantabrian Barros (Cantabria). Made of sandstone and with a base pier, its dimensions are 1.70 m in diameter and 0.32 m in thickness.
    The study of the archaeological sites in the area where the cantabros are currently believed to be located reveals, on a Neolithic substratum, objects of a characteristic invoice of populations of the Danube region and the funerary culture of Campos de Urnas that could have arrived during the Bronze to settle later, during the second millennium a. C., around the high Ebro.


    Both the gentilicios used by some tribes or Cantabrian clans - in particular the one of the orgenomescos / argentomescios? finally displaced to the more montane interior-, as well as equine cults, are similar to those of the Sarmatians and Moesios, Mekhi or Mycenaeans. The latter, of Indo-European language also, came from the regions north of the Danube and migrated to very remote places retaining their original names or variants, according to James P. Mallory. Although the foregoing does not allow to determine with certainty the original origin of these groups, genetic studies conducted in the current population of the region, detect in male genes a percentage mostly affiliated with haplogroup R-SRY2627 of Nordic origin, and to a lesser extent Haplogroup E E-M81 (4) from North Africa. The simultaneous presence of these haplotypes of African origin among the male population is considered original, and the great variety of origin of the mitochondrial haplogroups, among which those usually found in North Africa, suggest several possible successive influxes of Celtic populations close to Illyrians that could come from the Aegean region, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Albania and ancient Thrace where such genes are found today as well. Alternatively, some of these genetic subgroups of such disparate provenances may have reached Cantabria later during the Carthaginian or Roman domination of the Iberian Peninsula, even during the brief Muslim domination of the southern part of the region.


    The dominant clan in the most fertile area and access to the high passes, the Plentusians / Plentuish ?, is related to the later culture of La Tène, properly Celtic and coming from the Lower Rhine.4 It could be of the first tribes evicted by Germanic tribes before 300 a. C.5 These are, perhaps, similar in etymology and identity to the Celtiberian Pelendons between the Ebro and Duero Rivers. [Citation needed]


    Concanos, coniscos, salaens and other peoples may have been relegated to less favorable grazing areas. Within the tribal community they seem to represent Celtic Hallstatt groups or Paleolithic matrilineal genders related to the Basques, as Joaquín González Echegaray points out.

    English wikipedia

    Origins

    The ancestors of the Cantabri were thought by the Romans to have migrated to the Iberian Peninsulaaround the 4th Century BC, and were said by them to be more mixed than most peninsular Celtic peoples, their eleven or so tribes, assessed by Roman writers according to their names, were supposed to have included Gallic, Celtiberian, Indo-Aryan, Aquitanian, and Ligurian origins.[citation needed]
    A detailed analysis of place-names in ancient Cantabria shows a strong Celtic element along with an almost equally strong "Para-Celtic" element (both Indo-European) and thus disproves the idea of a substantial pre-Indo-European or Basque presence in the region. This supports the earlier view that Untermann considered the most plausible, coinciding with archaeological evidence put forward by Ruiz-Gálvez in 1998, that the Celtic settlement of the Iberian Peninsula was made by people who arrived via the Atlantic Ocean in an area between Brittany and the mouth of the River Garonne, finally settling along the Galician and Cantabrian coast.

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