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... agree, ... also some of the ancient kits I uploaded don’t quite match their own kits, ... but I don’t know for sure which one is better.Originally Posted by Jovialis
It seems to be close to Eurogenes, but I think it is their own version. However, despite the calculator, if they are not labeling the samples correctly, there is a major issue they should fix. Maybe SZ1 is an isolated incident. idk
Modern populations distances are much similar to Vahaduo Eurogenes K15 updated spreadsheet. See my modern results in both calculators:
MTA
Your closest genetic modern populations...
Info
1. Portuguese (6.307)
2. Spanish_Extremadura (7.061)
3. Spanish_Galicia (7.266)
4. Spanish_Cantabria (7.592)
5. Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon (7.609)
6. Spanish_Murcia (7.860)
7. Spanish_Cataluna (7.977)
8. Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha (9.082)
Vahaduo Eurogenes K15 updated spreadsheet
Distance to: Duarte 6.26967304 Portuguese 7.00658976 Spanish_Extremadura 7.37605586 Spanish_Galicia 7.63178223 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 7.68158838 Spanish_Murcia 7.77076573 Spanish_Cantabria 7.99125772 Spanish_Cataluna 8.72978808 FRA_Septimania 9.06899112 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
Jovialis: Ok, thanks. I agree, they need to do a review to ensure the samples are labeled correctly. Hopefully SZ1 is the only one not labeled correctly.
Duarte: Nice work. Thanks
Well I don't understand much about all this genetics stuff but I've heard out there that there are samples that under the label of Latinos are actually Etruscans and many other samples under various labels that are actually Logombards, I don't know if it's true or not, but that's what they say out there.
MTA
1. Spanish_Cantabria (6.258)
2. Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha (7.723)
3. Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon (8.458)
4. Southwest_French (8.469)
5. Spanish_Aragon (8.66)
6. Spanish_Cataluna (9.217)
7. Spanish_Extremadura (9.510)
8. Spanish_Andalucia (9.892)
k15
Distance to: Carlos 6.28936404 Spanish_Cantabria 7.76821086 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 8.48681330 Southwest_French 8.50177628 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 8.69507907 Spanish_Aragon 9.26335252 Spanish_Cataluna 9.56104597 Spanish_Extremadura 9.94264049 Spanish_Andalucia 9.96101902 Spanish_Valencia 10.08261375 Portuguese 10.18418873 Spanish_Murcia 10.92309022 Spanish_Galicia 14.68223416 French 15.65960089 French_Basque 16.06824508 North_Italian 19.05653956 South_Dutch 21.71067710 Southwest_English 22.90593809 Tuscan 23.14467109 West_German 23.45287402 Southeast_English 25.09139095 Austrian 25.18253363 East_German 25.37154114 North_German 25.39016739 Irish 25.86003094 Serbian
A small jump between Castile and Leon and Southwest France but let's see if you understand me.
Now with the cursor I can not select what I want to copy the whole block by default.
K13
Distance to: Carlos 5.99357156 Spanish_Cantabria 6.65038345 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 7.07265862 Southwest_French 7.98839158 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 8.09111241 Spanish_Aragon 8.12444460 Spanish_Galicia 8.17633781 Spanish_Andalucia 8.41938240 Spanish_Cataluna 8.42352064 Spanish_Extremadura 9.21772749 Spanish_Murcia 9.24409541 Portuguese 9.59140761 Spanish_Valencia 13.08031727 French 16.10858777 French_Basque 16.42111141 North_Italian 18.71481232 South_Dutch 19.45701159 West_German 22.24301688 Southwest_English 22.79234740 Southeast_English 23.37091141 Tuscan 24.91886233 Orcadian 25.11564652 Austrian 25.44782898 Irish 25.49558393 West_Scottish 26.67815211 North_Dutch
G25
Distance to: Carlos_scaled 0.02008536 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 0.02180489 Spanish_Galicia 0.02231244 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 0.02269035 Spanish_Andalucia 0.02312202 Portuguese 0.02489288 Spanish_Valencia 0.02490052 Spanish_Menorca 0.02522834 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre 0.02553041 Spanish_Aragon 0.02585001 Spanish_Cataluna 0.02603826 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona 0.02618920 Spanish_Eivissa 0.02618944 Spanish_Alacant 0.02619990 Spanish_Pirineu 0.02712183 Spanish_Lleida 0.02722912 Spanish_Baleares 0.02793500 Spanish_Cantabria 0.02795867 Spanish_Extremadura 0.02815267 Spanish_Murcia 0.02842729 Spanish_Castello 0.02852608 Spanish_Barcelones 0.02860053 Spanish_Mallorca 0.02901544 Spanish_Penedes 0.02905788 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona 0.02921315 Spanish_Girona
And here the homogeneity is bestial, we are one,
Vahaduo Eurogenes K13 updated spreadsheet has a little bit different populations and distances when compared to K15 and MTA
Mine
Distance to: Duarte 5.85985495 Spanish_Extremadura 5.90686888 Spanish_Andalucia 6.03160012 Spanish 6.40790137 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 6.60645896 Spanish_Murcia 6.78030235 Portuguese 6.88743784 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 6.90646074 Spanish_Galicia 6.93357772 Spanish_Valencia 7.19974305 Spanish_Cantabria 7.83324964 Spanish_Cataluna 8.59401536 Spanish_Aragon 9.19530859 FRA_Septimania 9.58162304 Southwest_French 11.26589544 Swiss-Italian2 12.12645043 IT_Orobia 12.21640700 IT_Piedmont 12.33157735 IT_Aosta_Valley 12.52173311 FRA_Provence 12.53558934 Swiss_Italian 12.69648770 IT_Lombardy 12.77490509 IT_Insubria 12.94127892 French 13.94228819 IT_Veneto 13.94905015 IT_Trentino
I will carry out a uniparental introspection based on the mitochondrial haplogroup to support a multidisciplinary logistics based on the correlation of old data to see if I see something.
Dark Ages top 10
(Bronze Age SZ1 made the list), lol
I believe they were betrayed for not verifying that SZ1 sample is from a period much earlier than that of all other samples. OMG!Dark Ages top 10
(Bronze Age SZ1 made the list), lol
“Two longobard-associated cemeteries
We performed a deep genomic characterization of individuals buried in two cemeteries of the sixth to seventh centuries CE that have material culture associated with the Longobards. Both are considered key sites with regard to the proposed migration from Pannonia to Italy. The first cemetery, Szólád, is located in present-day Hungary (Supplementary Figure 1). There are 45 graves (Fig. 1b), all of which are dated to the middle third of the sixth century based on a combination of stylistic elements of the grave goods and radiocarbon (2-sigma range of 412–604 CE, Supplementary Table 1) analysis14. Archeological, stable isotope, and mtDNA (HVS-1) analyses suggested that Szólád was occupied for only ~20/30 years by a mobile group of Longobard-era settlers14. The female to male ratio (sexing being based primarily on genetic data, or in its absence, anatomy) is 0.65. Graves in this cemetery are organized such that a core group (N = 18), mostly of male individuals, is surrounded by a half-ring of females (N = 11) (Supplementary Figure 2). Most of these individuals lie in elaborate graves with ledge walls and wooden chambers all in the same orientation, furnished with numerous artifacts such as beads, pottery, swords, and shields. The remaining 16 Longobard-period graves are more diverse in relation to the sex of the individuals, as well as to the quality of grave construction and richness of artifacts. Archeologists also recovered two bodies (AV1, AV2) that derive from a later occupation of the region by the Avars in the fill of the Longobard-period grave (SZ27)15, as well the skeletal remains from an individual dating to the Bronze Age 10 m north of the cemetery (SZ1). See Supplementary Note 1, Supplementary Figures 1–11, and Supplementary Table 1 for the archeological context of Szólád.”
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-06024-4
MTA says the Roopkund Lake traveler I3350 is closest to me, he is my #1 match. However, Dodecad Globe 13 indicates I am pretty distant:
Distance to: Jovialis 4.08227878 I3403:É_Harney_et_al._2019 5.32357023 I3404:É_Harney_et_al._2019 6.43343610 I6937:É_Harney_et_al._2019 8.52763742 I3350:É_Harney_et_al._2019
@Jovialis that’s also my top match for now, ... was R1548, ...
R1548 was also mine, and it is also a sample that is considerably distant from both of us. Both of those samples are "south" of south Italians, and pulled further to the east. I think there must be something wrong here, because it doesn't make sense.@Jovialis that’s also my top match for now, ... was R1548, ...
This is not a good fit, especially since there are many more samples which are much closer to me.
Distance to: Jovialis 11.26066161 R1548
FWIW, since MTA is closest to Eurogene K15, not even that calculator puts me close to R1548:
Distance to: Jovialis 4.75335671 R65_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna 5.51492520 R136_Imperial_Era_Marcellino_&_Pietro 6.08097032 R1544_Imperial_Era_Necropolis_of_Monte_Agnese 6.09821285 R56_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna 6.32203290 R117_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia 6.38034482 R47_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis 6.40971918 R436_Imperial_Era_Palestrina 6.54137600 R54_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna 6.57746152 R58_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna 6.83912275 R835_Imperial_Era_Civitanova_Marche 6.90821974 R1290_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna 7.72365846 R64_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna 7.92461356 R1548_Imperial_Era_Monterotondo 8.22504711 R1549_Imperial_Era_Monterotondo 8.34279929 R49_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis 8.42568098 R970_Medieval_Era_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti 8.51677169 R60_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna 8.62258082 R57_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna 8.88838568 R51_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis 8.90012359 R973_Medieval_Era_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti 8.90951738 R53_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna 9.22901945 R969_Medieval_Era_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti 9.41190735 R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata 9.43142619 R35_Late_Antiquity_Celio 9.47611207 R59_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
... found it :) ... EU k15:
MTA Oracle doesn’t match the other calculators, in our case, not even k15.
Modern Age (... Skeleton Lake) and Medieval Age (... Foggia Viking)
I noticed that Late Medieval R56 and Medieval R60 (both Villa Magna), though different, they share the same distance value, guess I’m in the middle of their ancestries:
Perhaps the similarity of the results between ‘EU K15’ and ‘MTA modern’ is restricted only to modern populations. It is possible that the distances of ancestral populations are of a specific algorithm that minimizes the calculator effect.... found it :) ... EU k15:
MTA Oracle doesn’t match the other calculators, in our case, not even k15.
I think they’re not using a standard EU K15 at all,
... the two modern Apulian :) K15 top matches are very distant to the MTA top Match on the official (R) Roman PCA.
... though every calculator shows that the MTA top matches of the Apulians are way way off.
I believe they were betrayed for not verifying that SZ1 sample is from a period much earlier than that of all other samples. OMG!
“Two longobard-associated cemeteries
We performed a deep genomic characterization of individuals buried in two cemeteries of the sixth to seventh centuries CE that have material culture associated with the Longobards. Both are considered key sites with regard to the proposed migration from Pannonia to Italy. The first cemetery, Szólád, is located in present-day Hungary (Supplementary Figure 1). There are 45 graves (Fig. 1b), all of which are dated to the middle third of the sixth century based on a combination of stylistic elements of the grave goods and radiocarbon (2-sigma range of 412–604 CE, Supplementary Table 1) analysis14. Archeological, stable isotope, and mtDNA (HVS-1) analyses suggested that Szólád was occupied for only ~20/30 years by a mobile group of Longobard-era settlers14. The female to male ratio (sexing being based primarily on genetic data, or in its absence, anatomy) is 0.65. Graves in this cemetery are organized such that a core group (N = 18), mostly of male individuals, is surrounded by a half-ring of females (N = 11) (Supplementary Figure 2). Most of these individuals lie in elaborate graves with ledge walls and wooden chambers all in the same orientation, furnished with numerous artifacts such as beads, pottery, swords, and shields. The remaining 16 Longobard-period graves are more diverse in relation to the sex of the individuals, as well as to the quality of grave construction and richness of artifacts. Archeologists also recovered two bodies (AV1, AV2) that derive from a later occupation of the region by the Avars in the fill of the Longobard-period grave (SZ27)15, as well the skeletal remains from an individual dating to the Bronze Age 10 m north of the cemetery (SZ1). See Supplementary Note 1, Supplementary Figures 1–11, and Supplementary Table 1 for the archeological context of Szólád.”
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-06024-4
the issue is that SZ1 is the forefather of many of these samples
meaning.......how long have this family been in pannonia .......since SZ1 is late bronze age
Fathers mtdna ... T2b17
Grandfather mtdna ... T1a1e
Sons mtdna ... K1a4
Mum paternal line ... R1b-S8172
Grandmum paternal side ... I1-Y33791
Wife paternal line ... R1a-Z282
I agree that SZ1 is the ancestor of several other individuals buried in Szólád. But it is a individual from Bronze Age and it is not correct for MTA to label that individual as a Medieval Avar (Avar Szólád Hungary - 700AD).the issue is that SZ1 is the forefather of many of these samples
meaning.......how long have this family been in pannonia .......since SZ1 is late bronze age
Roman PCA
Last edited by Salento; 14-12-20 at 07:48.
I agree that SZ1 is the ancestor of several other individuals buried in Szólád. But it is a individual from Bronze Age and it is not correct for MTA to label that individual as a Medieval Avar (Avar Szólád Hungary - 700AD).
my question is
since SZ1 was found in pannonia in the bronze-age and is the forefather of the other lombards noted in the family tree....then it is reasonable to state these AD lombards have been in pannonia for a long time
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